INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Adam on January 16, 2011, 11:51:30 AM
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So I'm guessing all you lot who are paranoid about cctv are paranoid about this too? :autism:
What do you guys think?
iirc there are about 5million on record in the UK
Would you support taking dna samples from all newborn babies?
And before anyone says it, yes I know they're a very small chance they can be wrong
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No, I wouldn't support that, but I would support taking DNA from convicted felons.
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Why not everyone?
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You really are into big government aren't you ofr are you just screwing with us. There is just too much room for abuse they abuse the information they get now I can't even imagine how this would turn out.
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Let's not use fingerprints either then
Hell let's not do anything, I mean anything can be abused
If a crime is committed, let's just ignore it so we don't upset any paranoid people
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What crime have those newborns you suggest sampling committed. I have no problems collecting information from criminals
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
My fear, however far-fetched, would be that my DNA could be planted at a crime scene, for whatever reason. :tinfoil:
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There is just so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start. Let's just install a kill switch in everyone and if the almighty government thinks we are a problem they can snuff us out on the spot
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
My fear, however far-fetched, would be that my DNA could be planted at a crime scene, for whatever reason. :tinfoil:
But your average person wouldn't have access to the database, so what are the chances of someone working there having a grudge over you? Hell what are the chances of anyone having grudge over YOU? :laugh:
Also someone could easily do that anyway, putting your fingerprints on a murder weapon or leaving some of your hair, semen ( :P ) or saliva
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There is just so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start. Let's just install a kill switch in everyone and if the almighty government thinks we are a problem they can snuff us out on the spot
???
I'm all for catching killers and rapists before they reoffend
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
My fear, however far-fetched, would be that my DNA could be planted at a crime scene, for whatever reason. :tinfoil:
But your average person wouldn't have access to the database, so what are the chances of someone working there having a grudge over you? Hell what are the chances of anyone having grudge over YOU? :laugh:
Also someone could easily do that anyway, putting your fingerprints on a murder weapon or leaving some of your hair, semen ( :P ) or saliva
I don't have semen. :P
But seriously, maybe no one on the police force has a grudge against ME, but what if some corrupt cop decides to frame some outspoken citizen
who has publicly criticized the police force for brutality or racial profiling, for example? If everyone's DNA is already accessible,
in large enough amounts to be planted and then positively identified, imagine the abuses that could ensue. :hide:
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Corrupt cops can fix things anyway though - we can't refuse to use something that could potentially save lives, and would definitely catch some criminals (killers, rapists?) just because it can be abused. Alosrts of thigns can be abused
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I read about a year ago, that some Israeli scientists had managed to alter or fake DNA. So it's probably not that reliable anymore for criminal prosecution purposes.
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I read about a year ago, that some Israeli scientists had managed to alter or fake DNA. So it's probably not that reliable anymore for criminal prosecution purposes.
Yikes. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, we already have genetically engineered tomatoes and such. :chin:
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No, I wouldn't support that, but I would support taking DNA from convicted felons.
If it wasn't so easy to become a felon these days, I'd agree.
I know a guy who got in a drunken shoving match with his girlfriend (she started it) and is now a felon.
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
If the pigs cops want to bust anyone, they could "plant" the DNA of the person they wanted to bust on the victim/crimescene. How could the accused then prove that s/he is innocent?
And another thing, since you like history: since the Roman Empire the fundamental Western principle of justice is that you are innocent until proven guilty. From that principle follows that you don't start with suspecting everyone until they prove that they're not guilty, which is kind of what you do with surveillance laws, compulsory DNA samples et cetera.
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No, I wouldn't support that, but I would support taking DNA from convicted felons.
If it wasn't so easy to become a felon these days, I'd agree.
I know a guy who got in a drunken shoving match with his girlfriend (she started it) and is now a felon.
In Sweden it's legal for an adult to have sex with a 15 yo, unless you are in a position where the 15 yo is "dependant" on you, i.e. if you are the 15 yo's teacher, social worker, physician, psychologist etc. It is however illegal to have pictures and movies of nude persons below 18 since July 1st last year. So you can fuck a 15 yo but if you have it recorded on photos or film, even if you never show it to the public, you might be busted for child pornography!
I
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They've not committed any crime obviously, but all murderers and rapists start out as innocent babies too. If we had everyone's DNA on record, think how much quicker some violent criminals would be caught. And to the rest of us, what harm is it doing'?
If the pigs cops want to bust anyone, they could "plant" the DNA of the person they wanted to bust on the victim/crimescene. How could the accused then prove that s/he is innocent?
And another thing, since you like history: since the Roman Empire the fundamental Western principle of justice is that you are innocent until proven guilty. From that principle follows that you don't start with suspecting everyone until they prove that they're not guilty, which is kind of what you do with surveillance laws, compulsory DNA samples et cetera.
I think Phillip Vanatter and/or Mark Fuhrman planted OJ Simpson's DNA at the murder scene and also planted his late ex-wife's blood onto his sock lying on his bedroom floor because they were so convinced that he was guilty. He might have actually been guilty, but I think planting evidence is so wrong that I wouldn't have voted to convict him.
I think that if Jim Broderick had Tim Master's DNA on file, he would have planted it on Peggy Hettrick's body because he was so convinced that Tim Masters was guilty, even though he was innocent as later proven by DNA evidence. As it was, Jm Broderick perjured himself on the witness stand to obtain a conviction.
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Yes, it's very easy to plant evidence, and it becomes easier the more refined methods you get for doing it.
And you don't even have to plant evidence to get someone innocently convicted. If two "ordinary citizens" without as much as a speed ticket in their criminal record say A and a cop says B, the court will believe B is the truth, at least here in Sweden.
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Yes, it's very easy to plant evidence, and it becomes easier the more refined methods you get for doing it.
And you don't even have to plant evidence to get someone innocently convicted. If two "ordinary citizens" without as much as a speed ticket in their criminal record say A and a cop says B, the court will believe B is the truth, at least here in Sweden.
There is a presumption here that the cop is a disinterested person looking only for justice, but that isn't always really the case.
Jim Broderick was arrested on eight counts of perjury and put on administrative leave. If he's convicted, he will go to prison and I don't think he will be a cop anymore.
http://www.denverpost.com/frontpage/ci_15410724?
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Here two Swedish cops beat the shit out of a 64 year old man. His "crime"? He was actually reporting that some youngsters might be committing a crime in the neighbourhood. The cops neglected that but were pissed off because he leaned against the police car! Then he said to them "It's my car as much as yours", which of course is correct in the sense that it was paid for by taxpayer money. This, however, made the cops furious. In first instance court the cops got 3 months in prison for assault on the man. In the court of appeals, however, they just got a ticket each for misconduct of duty...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfD3cfATpeI
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When my youngest was born I had to choose if I wanted her blood destroyed after screening for PKU or stored in a national database. I chose destruction.
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i got swabbed :'(
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i got swabbed :'(
Do they keep your DNA profile for good, or has it been destroyed afterwards?
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So I'm guessing all you lot who are paranoid about cctv are paranoid about this too? :autism:
What do you guys think?
iirc there are about 5million on record in the UK
Would you support taking dna samples from all newborn babies?
And before anyone says it, yes I know they're a very small chance they can be wrong
Would you let yourself get profiled, pure for database reasons?
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No not if not everyone was doing it. I would have no problem with everyone being on the database thoiugh
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i got swabbed :'(
Do they keep your DNA profile for good, or has it been destroyed afterwards?
the purpose was storage/database.
since i have broken the law before (weed), i guess they assume its only a matter of time before ill be leaving my dna on crime scenes (rape, murder)
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For those who think there is nothing to fear from the police and that they don't abuse their powers have a look at this site it's updated almost every day. Your sure to find things that will make you think http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
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For those who think there is nothing to fear from the police and that they don't abuse their powers have a look at this site it's updated almost every day. Your sure to find things that will make you think http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
i personally got very upset when they just decided - "out of the blue" - to call me and my brother in (at the same time probably cus we have the same last name, obviously family, and both.. criminals :D) to give dna and fingerprints
i only got busted for weed, and user ammounts.
i really found it unecesary for them to store my dna sample :(
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For those who think there is nothing to fear from the police and that they don't abuse their powers have a look at this site it's updated almost every day. Your sure to find things that will make you think http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
But your cops sometimes go to jail for it. In Sweden, for instance, cops very rarely go to jail for something they do in their "service". One cop in Östergötland shot an unarmed thief in the back, so he died. He got 18 months for "gross causing of another person's death", i.e. he was out after 1 year. If the situation had been the other way around, the thief would have gotten 18 years at least.
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For those who think there is nothing to fear from the police and that they don't abuse their powers have a look at this site it's updated almost every day. Your sure to find things that will make you think http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
But your cops sometimes go to jail for it. In Sweden, for instance, cops very rarely go to jail for something they do in their "service". One cop in Östergötland shot an unarmed thief in the back, so he died. He got 18 months for "gross causing of another person's death", i.e. he was out after 1 year. If the situation had been the other way around, the thief would have gotten 18 years at least.
we can top that!
two cops grabbed a black guy at the welfare office, a student, who was cellphone-filming the staff as some sort of lame protest
he resisted arrest
so they choked him to death
there and then :]
theyre still on the job
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Oh, they have killed people here too and gotten away completely, but that's usually when the person resisted arrest or waved with a knife or something. The thief shot in Östergötland wasn't resisting or anything, he was actually just running away from the cop.
The best cop is a dead cop.
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For those who think there is nothing to fear from the police and that they don't abuse their powers have a look at this site it's updated almost every day. Your sure to find things that will make you think http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
But your cops sometimes go to jail for it. In Sweden, for instance, cops very rarely go to jail for something they do in their "service". One cop in Östergötland shot an unarmed thief in the back, so he died. He got 18 months for "gross causing of another person's death", i.e. he was out after 1 year. If the situation had been the other way around, the thief would have gotten 18 years at least.
They don't get punished much if at all. There is a case in my town where it's going to trial only because there is video evidence that the cop was wrong he is still fighting it even though he killed two people while racing another cop going almost 100mph on town roads. Very little happens to them and if they get fired they just go to another town
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Personally I still don't give a shit. There are so many things that can go wrong in my life, many much more likely than someone setting me up for murder
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I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
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I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
Did you leave your fingerprints. :autism:
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Personally I still don't give a shit. There are so many things that can go wrong in my life, many much more likely than someone setting me up for murder
That's a lot of peoples view till something goes wrong. You of all people should be skeptical of this sort of thing ever think your transgenderedness could cause problems if say more conservative factions came into power and saw it as a morality issue as many of them do and decided that anyone with that gene or even the one for AS was less of a citizen
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The Muslim fundamentalists are already harassing Jews and gay people in Europe, so it's not that far away that Soph might think it is.
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I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
Did you leave your fingerprints. :autism:
Nope, your fingerprints are placed on the inside cover of the SRB, so you can't take out the page.
I took a sharpie marker to my fingerprints so they'd be unusable!! ;)
I also stole my dental records (they gave them to me to make copies of, but I never brought them back), so if they had tried to recall me, they couldn't prove who I was or wasn't. :evillaugh:
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I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
Did you leave your fingerprints. :autism:
Nope, your fingerprints are placed on the inside cover of the SRB, so you can't take out the page.
I took a sharpie marker to my fingerprints so they'd be unusable!! ;)
I also stole my dental records (they gave them to me to make copies of, but I never brought them back), so if they had tried to recall me, they couldn't prove who I was or wasn't. :evillaugh:
:viking:
Well done!
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Corrupt cops can fix things anyway though - we can't refuse to use something that could potentially save lives, and would definitely catch some criminals (killers, rapists?) just because it can be abused. Alosrts of thigns can be abused
On that basis doing away with the requirement for a search warrant before police could kick in a person's door might be a good idea. After all if one is innocent then what harm is there in having police go through their closets, bills, computer discs etc?
I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
Did you leave your fingerprints. :autism:
Nope, your fingerprints are placed on the inside cover of the SRB, so you can't take out the page.
I took a sharpie marker to my fingerprints so they'd be unusable!! ;)
I also stole my dental records (they gave them to me to make copies of, but I never brought them back), so if they had tried to recall me, they couldn't prove who I was or wasn't. :evillaugh:
Military fingerprints are kept in FBI and DOD databases.
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Corrupt cops can fix things anyway though - we can't refuse to use something that could potentially save lives, and would definitely catch some criminals (killers, rapists?) just because it can be abused. Alosrts of thigns can be abused
On that basis doing away with the requirement for a search warrant before police could kick in a person's door might be a good idea. After all if one is innocent then what harm is there in having police go through their closets, bills, computer discs etc?
I got sawabed for DNA in the Marines, but they didn't actually test the DNA, they just kept the sample.
When I was getting out, I found the sample in my Service Record Book, removed it and destroyed it without anyone catching me. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :headbang2:
Did you leave your fingerprints. :autism:
Nope, your fingerprints are placed on the inside cover of the SRB, so you can't take out the page.
I took a sharpie marker to my fingerprints so they'd be unusable!! ;)
I also stole my dental records (they gave them to me to make copies of, but I never brought them back), so if they had tried to recall me, they couldn't prove who I was or wasn't. :evillaugh:
Military fingerprints are kept in FBI and DOD databases.
So, now the question is, did Scrap wear rubber gloves while tampering with his file? Or will he get busted?
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We do have surveillance cameras in certain areas. Gasstations, schools, shops. Most of them are there under the regulation that the images have to be wiped within 24 hours after they have been taken, unless there has been a crime the images need to be used for in those 24 hours. Then the images can be saved, till no longer needed, and they will have to be destroyed after that. As far as I know, the deleting of the images almost happens automatically. Also there have to be signs telling you that there is camera surveillance.
I can live with that.
Now and then there are voices to make things tighter. 9/11 works well as a tool to frighten people and let them hand in their freedom.
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The Muslim fundamentalists are already harassing Jews and gay people in Europe, so it's not that far away that Soph might think it is.
Muzzies are scum.
So, now the question is, did Scrap wear rubber gloves while tampering with his file? Or will he get busted?
That doesn't matter. We carried our records around getting them signed and have the right to review them for accuracy and/or omissions. Furthermore you can expect that Yeoman, Disbursing Clerks, MAA's doing routine security clearance audits will have their prints in there as well. Unless Scrap were to be stupid enough to admit something they have nothing, statute of limitations aside.
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There is just so many things wrong with that I don't know where to start. Let's just install a kill switch in everyone and if the almighty government thinks we are a problem they can snuff us out on the spot
Mainly. :plus:
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Here's another wouldn't have made this convenient for someone back in WW2
Have you ever wondered if you have Jewish or 10-Israel Ancestry? Many people from non-Jewish families ask themselves, "Am I Jewish?", "Am I Hebrew?", or "Were my ancestors of the Lost 10 Tribes of Israel?" Believe it or not, you can actually have your DNA tested by FamilyTreeDNA (a simple cheek swab) to help confirm if you have Israelite ancestors.
http://jewsandjoes.com/can-dna-tell-me-if-i-have-jewish-or-10-israel-hebrew-ancestry.html
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I had my fingerprints taken when I came to the US
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I had my fingerprints taken when I came to the US
That's cause we have to keep track of dangerous individuals like you :zoinks:
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I had my fingerprints taken when I came to the US
That's a relief. I hate to be having you spam up the internet from this side of the Atlantic. >:D
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I got frisked too :P (obviously that american perv jjust wanted to molest me!)
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I got frisked too :P (obviously that american perv jjust wanted to molest me!)
Who wouldn't? :zoinks:
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Someone should invent a DNA scanner so all people could have them to identify each other. It could be used to control our money transactions as well instead of silly numbers. But seriously,
Let's not use fingerprints either then
Can remember years ago, when the police first started the 'fingerprint your kid' programs as some sort of public safety initiative. Told someone I thought it was a scam to get kids fingerprints into the system before they're old enough to be criminals. Was told the though was weird or paranoid or some such. Sometimes I just need to keep things to myself.
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Someone should invent a DNA scanner so all people could have them to identify each other. It could be used to control our money transactions as well instead of silly numbers. But seriously,
Let's not use fingerprints either then
Can remember years ago, when the police first started the 'fingerprint your kid' programs as some sort of public safety initiative. Told someone I thought it was a scam to get kids fingerprints into the system before they're old enough to be criminals. Was told the though was weird or paranoid or some such. Sometimes I just need to keep things to myself.
My foster son refused when they asked at school with that program
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Someone should invent a DNA scanner so all people could have them to identify each other. It could be used to control our money transactions as well instead of silly numbers. But seriously,
Let's not use fingerprints either then
Can remember years ago, when the police first started the 'fingerprint your kid' programs as some sort of public safety initiative. Told someone I thought it was a scam to get kids fingerprints into the system before they're old enough to be criminals. Was told the though was weird or paranoid or some such. Sometimes I just need to keep things to myself.
My foster son refused when they asked at school with that program
Fuckin A! :plus: to you for guidance.
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Someone should invent a DNA scanner so all people could have them to identify each other. It could be used to control our money transactions as well instead of silly numbers. But seriously,
Let's not use fingerprints either then
Can remember years ago, when the police first started the 'fingerprint your kid' programs as some sort of public safety initiative. Told someone I thought it was a scam to get kids fingerprints into the system before they're old enough to be criminals. Was told the though was weird or paranoid or some such. Sometimes I just need to keep things to myself.
My foster son refused when they asked at school with that program
:plus:
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Someone should invent a DNA scanner so all people could have them to identify each other. It could be used to control our money transactions as well instead of silly numbers. But seriously,
Let's not use fingerprints either then
Can remember years ago, when the police first started the 'fingerprint your kid' programs as some sort of public safety initiative. Told someone I thought it was a scam to get kids fingerprints into the system before they're old enough to be criminals. Was told the though was weird or paranoid or some such. Sometimes I just need to keep things to myself.
people are such amazing naive sheep sometimes...
and whever the gvt DOES apprehensive horrendous shit, such as allow cops to strangle a black student to death and go free, or incite a coup d'etat in some central asian country, or invade countries for no reason, we all just close our ears, and go watch everybody loves raymond...........
its all ray romanos fault :I
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people are such amazing naive sheep sometimes...
Fancy yourself as a shepherd? The black sheep is still a sheep.
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people are such amazing naive sheep sometimes...
Fancy yourself as a shepherd? The black sheep is still a sheep.
the black sheep is still a different sheep ::)
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people are such amazing naive sheep sometimes...
Fancy yourself as a shepherd? The black sheep is still a sheep.
the black sheep is still a different sheep ::)
I imagine their pussy still feels the same. :sheep: