INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Adam on January 10, 2011, 03:57:35 PM
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Did you see this in the news? The couple who've had a few sons and then aborted their twin boys, and are now trying for another baby (wanting it to be a girl)?
I support first trimester abortions for ANY reason btw, financial, autism, whatever. But I do still think this is pretty ghey
I can't understand being in this position. I can understand wanting a boy or wanting a giirl, but not to the point that you'd abort and try again? Imagine the kid then ended up like me? The guilt they'd suffer would be horrendous :laugh:
Also why don't think just adopt if they want so much control over what the kid is?
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Read that and it did my head in.
Going through the horrors of IVF, and then abort the twin boys that are a result of it.
Think that couple needs serious professional help, to help them deal with the loss of their daughter, the one they want to replace so badly.
Even if they do get a girl the next time, she will never be able to replace her lost sister. And the burden it will put on that possible daughter would be horrific.
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I'm pro-choice, but that is horrible.
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
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I haven't seen it, but I think it's very sad. I know there are so many people who would have loved to adopt their twin sons if they didn't want to raise them.
I agree with Hyke that they probably need counseling and that if they don't get it, this would put a huge amount of pressure on the girl they eventually have, assuming they are blessed with one.
However, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to have a girl through IVF if they want one. Who is it going to hurt if parents can choose the sex of their children conceived through IVF?
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IVF,
Didnt know it was IVF
That makes it even worse. Especially if they got it on the NHS
Selfish bastards should just appreciate what they';ve got ffs. Any child is a child. Too many people treat kids like some kind of commodity, rather than something they should just be fucking grateful for
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IVF,
Didnt know it was IVF
That makes it even worse.
Selfish bastards should just appreciate what they';ve got ffs. Any child is a child. Too many people treat kids like some kind of commodity, rather than something they should just be fucking grateful for
They are Australian.
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I haven't seen it, but I think it's very sad. I know there are so many people who would have loved to adopt their twin sons if they didn't want to raise them.
I agree with Hyke that they probably need counseling and that if they don't get it, this would put a huge amount of pressure on the girl they eventually have, assuming they are blessed with one.
However, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to have a girl through IVF if they want one. Who is it going to hurt if parents can choose the sex of their children conceived through IVF?
The child themselves? Dictating what your child is going to be, based on what you want or what ideal you have in your head just puts pressure on the child to conform to that. What if someone wants a boy but then that boy turns out very feminine and doesn't live up to the football playing, boyish stereotype the parents wanted?
Sex of a child should be completely irrelevant. Any parent who has an unhealthy fixation on the genitilia of their children needs help
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
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Here (http://www.news.com.au/national/desperate-couple-abort-twin-boys-in-desperate-bid-for-ivf-girl/story-e6frfkvr-1225983907853) is a link with more info on the couple:
A COUPLE so desperate for a baby girl that they terminated twin boys are fighting to choose the sex of their next child.
The couple, who have three sons and still grieve for a daughter they lost soon after birth, are going to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal to win the right to select sex by IVF treatment.
They say they want the opportunity to have the baby daughter they were tragically denied.
An independent panel, known as the Patient Review Panel, recently rejected the couple's bid to choose the sex of their next child using IVF.
They have gone to VCAT in a bid to have that decision overturned.
VCAT recently ruled that it has the power to review the Patient Review Panel decision. It will hear the couple's case in March.
So determined are the couple to have a girl that they recently terminated twin boys conceived through IVF.
The couple said it had been a traumatic decision to make but they could not continue to have unlimited numbers of children.
If their test case fails, they say they will go to the US to conceive a girl.
The couple, who cannot be identified, conceived their three boys naturally.
The woman - in her thirties - says she loves her sons but would do anything to have a daughter.
The man said: "After what we have been through we are due for a bit of luck. We want to be given the opportunity to have a girl."
The woman, who is consumed by grief over the daughter who died soon after birth, admits she has become obsessed with having a daughter and it has become vital to her psychological health.
Victoria's Assisted Reproductive Treatment Act 2008 bans sex selection unless it is necessary to avoid the risk of transmission of a genetic abnormality or genetic disease to a child.
All IVF clinics in Australia must stay within National Health and Medical Research Council guidelines that say sex selection should not be done except to reduce the transmission of a serious genetic condition.
Australian IVF pioneer Gab Kovacs - not involved in the case - said he could not understand why the couple should be banned from having a girl.
"I can't see how it could harm anyone," he said.
"Who is this going to harm if this couple have their desire fulfilled?"
But Gene Ethics director Bob Phelps did not believe the couple should be allowed to choose. He feared it could open floodgates.
"I'm sorry they lost their daughter but, in the interests of society as a whole, they should seek some counselling for their grief and look for another way of getting a daughter into their family," he said.
"They sound like good parents and could offer a home to a child who needs one." He suggested they could adopt from overseas.
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Sickos I'm surprised it wasn't in the US but I guess every country has shallow people with loose morals
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
1. A lie requires a deliberate attempt to deceive.
2. Abortion is due to pregnancy. Pregnancy is due to sex. Even in the case of IVF or other artificial methods of embryo development, the use of the method is usually preceded by a failure to conceive through natural means. Furthermore, even when a couple does not attempt conception through natural means, the makeup of the reproductive system still results from sex, so even these pregnancies are traceable to sex. Without sex, we would not have the reproductive system that we have.
3. An action can have more than one cause.
4. I was joking.
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I haven't seen it, but I think it's very sad. I know there are so many people who would have loved to adopt their twin sons if they didn't want to raise them.
I agree with Hyke that they probably need counseling and that if they don't get it, this would put a huge amount of pressure on the girl they eventually have, assuming they are blessed with one.
However, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to have a girl through IVF if they want one. Who is it going to hurt if parents can choose the sex of their children conceived through IVF?
The child themselves? Dictating what your child is going to be, based on what you want or what ideal you have in your head just puts pressure on the child to conform to that. What if someone wants a boy but then that boy turns out very feminine and doesn't live up to the football playing, boyish stereotype the parents wanted?
Sex of a child should be completely irrelevant. Any parent who has an unhealthy fixation on the genitilia of their children needs help
OK, but they already have three sons, who they love, and they have lost an infant daughter.
I get that one child can never replace another one, and I would never have an abortion for gender selection myself, but I see nothing wrong with parents with three sons also wanting a daughter. I see nothing wrong with parents who are having IVF choosing the gender of the child.
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Can't you see that it's putting unecessary pressure on the child, just to fulfill the parents' selfish dreams of an ideal family?
Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
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I don't see it that way. When my husband and I got married, we talked about the children we eventually wanted to have. I wanted us to have at least one girl and my husband wanted at least one boy. Our family didn't turn out that way. I had endometriosis, so I had surgery to free up adhesions before I got pregnant with our daughter and we had fertility treatments to try for a second child, including another laparoscopic surgery to remove a large endometriosis cyst on one of my ovaries, which had been made worse by the fertility treatments. While I would happily welcome any child my husband and I had and I would never abort a child because it was the "wrong" gender, I don't see wanting a child of one gender or the other as equating to having an unhealthy fixation on the genitalia of our children.
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But you're wanting a child to specifically have a vagina ?
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
1. A lie requires a deliberate attempt to deceive.
2. Abortion is due to pregnancy. Pregnancy is due to sex. Even in the case of IVF or other artificial methods of embryo development, the use of the method is usually preceded by a failure to conceive through natural means. Furthermore, even when a couple does not attempt conception through natural means, the makeup of the reproductive system still results from sex, so even these pregnancies are traceable to sex. Without sex, we would not have the reproductive system that we have.
3. An action can have more than one cause.
4. I was joking.
I accept that you were joking.
The rest is nonsense.
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
1. A lie requires a deliberate attempt to deceive.
2. Abortion is due to pregnancy. Pregnancy is due to sex. Even in the case of IVF or other artificial methods of embryo development, the use of the method is usually preceded by a failure to conceive through natural means. Furthermore, even when a couple does not attempt conception through natural means, the makeup of the reproductive system still results from sex, so even these pregnancies are traceable to sex. Without sex, we would not have the reproductive system that we have.
3. An action can have more than one cause.
4. I was joking.
I accept that you were joking.
The rest is nonsense.
1.
Lie (Page: 849)
Lie, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Lied (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Lying (?).] [OE. lien, lien, leen, leoen, AS. leógan; akin to D. liegen, OS. & OHG. liogan, G. l\'81gen, Icel. ljga, Sw. ljuga, Dan.lyve, Goth. liugan, Russ. lgate.] To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive; to say or do that which is intended to deceive another, when he a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation.
2. This is still correct.
3. Let's say that Person A throws a ball in front of a car. Person B, who is driving the car, then hits that ball. The event of the car hitting the ball is caused by both Person A throwing the ball and Person B driving the car. If either person had been performing a different action, the event would not have occurred.
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
1. A lie requires a deliberate attempt to deceive.
2. Abortion is due to pregnancy. Pregnancy is due to sex. Even in the case of IVF or other artificial methods of embryo development, the use of the method is usually preceded by a failure to conceive through natural means. Furthermore, even when a couple does not attempt conception through natural means, the makeup of the reproductive system still results from sex, so even these pregnancies are traceable to sex. Without sex, we would not have the reproductive system that we have.
3. An action can have more than one cause.
4. I was joking.
I accept that you were joking.
The rest is nonsense.
1.
Lie (Page: 849)
Lie, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Lied (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Lying (?).] [OE. lien, lien, leen, leoen, AS. leógan; akin to D. liegen, OS. & OHG. liogan, G. l\'81gen, Icel. ljga, Sw. ljuga, Dan.lyve, Goth. liugan, Russ. lgate.] To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive; to say or do that which is intended to deceive another, when he a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation.
2. This is still correct.
3. Let's say that Person A throws a ball in front of a car. Person B, who is driving the car, then hits that ball. The event of the car hitting the ball is caused by both Person A throwing the ball and Person B driving the car. If either person had been performing a different action, the event would not have occurred.
Your sig bears a likeness to your argument ...
(http://www.intensitysquared.com/Smileys/default/hamster.gif)
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From my understanding, gender can be selected through IVF whith high accuracy. Unless, they tried that and it just didn't work out.
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From my understanding, gender can be selected through IVF whith high accuracy. Unless, they tried that and it just didn't work out.
We do it quite often in the US, but they do not permit it in Australia unless there is a sex gene linked genetic disorder the parents carry and hope to avoid in their baby.
If these particular parents are denied IVF with gender selection in Australia, they intend to come to the US to do it instead.
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
Nope. That statement is congruent to a bold-faced lie.
Pregnancy is indeed due to sex, but abortions are most often performed due to a lack of faith in ones ability to deal with the future.
The ultimate result of any completed pregnancy will mean that all the old, dependable ways of thinking have just changed.
It is up to those who are pregnant to make a determination (legally, but morally, making this determination draws from many other concerns) whether a massive change is for the good or for the bad.
1. A lie requires a deliberate attempt to deceive.
2. Abortion is due to pregnancy. Pregnancy is due to sex. Even in the case of IVF or other artificial methods of embryo development, the use of the method is usually preceded by a failure to conceive through natural means. Furthermore, even when a couple does not attempt conception through natural means, the makeup of the reproductive system still results from sex, so even these pregnancies are traceable to sex. Without sex, we would not have the reproductive system that we have.
3. An action can have more than one cause.
4. I was joking.
I accept that you were joking.
The rest is nonsense.
1.
Lie (Page: 849)
Lie, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Lied (?); p. pr. & vb. n. Lying (?).] [OE. lien, lien, leen, leoen, AS. leógan; akin to D. liegen, OS. & OHG. liogan, G. l\'81gen, Icel. ljga, Sw. ljuga, Dan.lyve, Goth. liugan, Russ. lgate.] To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive; to say or do that which is intended to deceive another, when he a right to know the truth, or when morality requires a just representation.
2. This is still correct.
3. Let's say that Person A throws a ball in front of a car. Person B, who is driving the car, then hits that ball. The event of the car hitting the ball is caused by both Person A throwing the ball and Person B driving the car. If either person had been performing a different action, the event would not have occurred.
Your sig bears a likeness to your argument ...
(http://www.intensitysquared.com/Smileys/default/hamster.gif)
You have yet to dispute my argument on the facts.
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I hope their kid ends up trans :zoinks:
(I'm joking btw - but only because it would suck for the kid, not their selfish parents)
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Seriously? Oo' I'd be happy with twins myself. Who cares if they're male or female?
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Seriously? Oo' I'd be happy with twins myself. Who cares if they're male or female?
Why twins? The attention factor?? ::)
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Seriously? Oo' I'd be happy with twins myself. Who cares if they're male or female?
Why twins? The attention factor?? ::)
The couple whose actions inspired this thread conceived twins via IVF but aborted them because they were male.
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I think they did the right thing. the more pussy in this world the better amirite?
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Seriously? Oo' I'd be happy with twins myself. Who cares if they're male or female?
Why twins? The attention factor?? ::)
The couple whose actions inspired this thread conceived twins via IVF but aborted them because they were male.
I think she was talking about the twin factor, regardless of sex. Maybe I read the intent wrong...I just think people think twins are 'cool' rather than the reality of bringing up two children effectively in tandem.
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And btw...aren't ALL abortions due to sex? :P
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Aren't all abortions due to sex? ;)
And btw...aren't ALL abortions due to sex? :P
I'd make my wife have an abortion if the fetus interfered with our sex life.
If I had a wife.
You single Eclair?
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I think the parents ought to be pushed off a cliff.
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I'd make my wife have an abortion if the fetus interfered with our sex life.
You'd make your wife have an abortion?
Charming as that is I'm hoping thats not a serious statement.
If I had a wife.
I wonder why that is. ::)
I think the parents ought to be pushed off a cliff.
:agreed: :plus:
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I'd make my wife have an abortion if the fetus interfered with our sex life.
You'd make your wife have an abortion?
Charming as that is I'm hoping thats not a serious statement.
If I had a wife.
I wonder why that is. ::)
I think the parents ought to be pushed off a cliff.
:agreed: :plus:
C'mon, there'll soon be SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE on this fucking giant testicle, and you still believe that every human zygote is precious?
Take a step back. Let's give ourselves a well-earned pat on the back for becoming the dominant lifeform on this planet, so much so that we can selectively shape our own evolution.
Plus these 2 facts: due to this kind of behaviour, China (for example) has seen a slew in the gender ratio towards males; also the fact that two extra kids instead of one is double the strain on our limited resources.
Give this couple a fucking trophy.
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Next you will be saying that people ought to do more drugs and be completely too drug-fucked to do anything sexual.... :asthing:
How are you Vodzy? You won't be fucking off any time soon I hope. Good to have you back.
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C'mon, there'll soon be SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE on this fucking giant testicle, and you still believe that every human zygote is precious?
Nope , I think the fact that you'd force someone you are supposed to be in love with to have an abortion for a purely selfish reason to be disgusting however.
Take a step back. Let's give ourselves a well-earned pat on the back for becoming the dominant lifeform on this planet, so much so that we can selectively shape our own evolution.
Dude are you high or something? , this really has no relation to what I was talking about at all. :lol:
Plus these 2 facts: due to this kind of behaviour, China (for example) has seen a slew in the gender ratio towards males; also the fact that two extra kids instead of one is double the strain on our limited resources.
Lol , you've just run off on a tangent haven't you? , bless.
Give this couple a fucking trophy.
For bad taste? sure.
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C'mon, there'll soon be SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE on this fucking giant testicle, and you still believe that every human zygote is precious?
Nope , I think the fact that you'd force someone you are supposed to be in love with to have an abortion for a purely selfish reason to be disgusting however.
Any excuse is good enough, really.
Next you will be saying that people ought to do more drugs and be completely too drug-fucked to do anything sexual.... :asthing:
How are you Vodzy? You won't be fucking off any time soon I hope. Good to have you back.
Any excuse to do drugs is good enough for me too.
Hi Les :)
Can't say how long I'll stay, maybe weeks, maybe hours. Enjoy while you can.
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Obvious troll is obvious.
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Obvious troll is obvious.
Ok you got me there.
But how do you propose we solve the severe gender imbalance facing future generations? More gay nightclubs?
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Obvious troll is obvious.
Ok you got me there.
But how do you propose we solve the severe gender imbalance facing future generations? More gay nightclubs?
Well *I* wouldn't have a problem with more gay night clubs :zoinks:
And I don't recall challenging you on a problem about a gender imbalance vodzy , I challenged you on your attitude of forcing a partner into abortion for it interfereing with your sex life , if you feel the need to find others to talk about his issue with then start a thread about it.
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C'mon, there'll soon be SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE on this fucking giant testicle, and you still believe that every human zygote is precious?
Nope , I think the fact that you'd force someone you are supposed to be in love with to have an abortion for a purely selfish reason to be disgusting however.
Any excuse is good enough, really.
Next you will be saying that people ought to do more drugs and be completely too drug-fucked to do anything sexual.... :asthing:
How are you Vodzy? You won't be fucking off any time soon I hope. Good to have you back.
Any excuse to do drugs is good enough for me too.
Hi Les :)
Can't say how long I'll stay, maybe weeks, maybe hours. Enjoy while you can.
Sweet! Will enjoy the ride
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Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
But autism means the kid isn't healthy, right?
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Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
But autism means the kid isn't healthy, right?
Correct!
No wait...can I have a re-do?
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Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
But autism means the kid isn't healthy, right?
Correct!
No wait...can I have a re-do?
Healthy, but really annoying.
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Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
But autism means the kid isn't healthy, right?
I meant healthy in this context. As in as long as there wasn't actually a problem with their penis/whatever.
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Why would any parents have such a fixation on the genitalia of their children? (assuming the kids are healthy of course)
But autism means the kid isn't healthy, right?
I meant healthy in this context. As in as long as there wasn't actually a problem with their penis/whatever.
You think that it would be OK to abort a child if he had a problem with his penis?
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:facepalm2:
Did you read the first quoted post?
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:facepalm2:
Did you read the first quoted post?
Of course, I read the whole entire thread again, today.
Do you think that it would be OK to abort a child if he had a problem with his penis?
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I think I heard about it on Babycenter. I find it sick kind of to abort a baby over a gender they didn't want. I wanted a girl really bad because I find girl clothes cuter and wanted to use my baby clothes on my baby but I was very disappointed when it turned out to be a boy. But I couldn't abort him for it. I was already at 20 weeks and I didn't want to lose another baby. But I learned to embrace it and I am glad I had this baby.
Playing god people call it.
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I have no idea how you read that from my post
And yes, I think it's ok to abort a "child" (your words) for any reason whatsoever, up to a ppoint
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I support first trimester abortions for ... autism
This is what I was trying to get at.
So what is the point of this post? You agree with their right to abort the fetus based on gender.
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I still don't understand your point
I thinkpeople should be able to abort for any reason, including autism
They should be able to abort the fetus based on gender if it is in the first trimester, can you find out gender then though? I should probably know more about this as my mum is a midwife :autism:
My point was that it is wrong to put so much on the sex of your baby unless it is for health reasons - you are then going by what you WANT your kid to be like. what if he/she doesn't live up to those expectations
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I still don't understand your point
I thinkpeople should be able to abort for any reason, including autism
They should be able to abort the fetus based on gender if it is in the first trimester, can you find out gender then though? I should probably know more about this as my mum is a midwife :autism:
My point was that it is wrong to put so much on the sex of your baby unless it is for health reasons - you are then going by what you WANT your kid to be like. what if he/she doesn't live up to those expectations
I think if someone's pure motivation to have a child is for the 'sex' of the child, then no, I can't support abortion, I think people need to reassess why they want to bring a child in the world. Look at your situation Soph, being born a female, doesn't mean you are going to meet your own parents expectations of what that means to them, so no, I think it's fuzzy logic.
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But should they even be having that child in that case?
I support early abortion for any reason. I think it gets tricky once people start saying you can for this but you can't for that etc
My situation is probably the reason I feel these people really SHOULDN'T be having kids in the first place
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But should they even be having that child in that case?
I support early abortion for any reason. I think it gets tricky once people start saying you can for this but you can't for that etc
My situation is probably the reason I feel these people really SHOULDN'T be having kids in the first place
I'm sorry, you've lost me. You support gender choice through abortion, but then put above, 'but should they even be having a child in the first place'?
Which is exactly why I said gender is NOT a reason to abort. The only circumstance is where there is an undeniable genetic predisposition for severe defects based on a particular gender. That being said...the best laid plans can bring into the world a child with a disability...so in my mind, your either in, or your out and have to take the good with the bad in having a child and certainly gender should be the least of a couple's worries, and absolutely an abominable reason to abort.
You seem to have made a flip on your case to abort on gender....or perhaps you aren't being clear on what issues you think gender should play into abortion?
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But should they even be having that child in that case?
I support early abortion for any reason. I think it gets tricky once people start saying you can for this but you can't for that etc
My situation is probably the reason I feel these people really SHOULDN'T be having kids in the first place
I'm sorry, you've lost me. You support gender choice through abortion, but then put above, 'but should they even be having a child in the first place'?
Which is exactly why I said gender is NOT a reason to abort. The only circumstance is where there is an undeniable genetic predisposition for severe defects based on a particular gender. That being said...the best laid plans can bring into the world a child with a disability...so in my mind, your either in, or your out and have to take the good with the bad in having a child and certainly gender should be the least of a couple's worries, and absolutely an abominable reason to abort.
You seem to have made a flip on your case to abort on gender....or perhaps you aren't being clear on what issues you think gender should play into abortion?
I interpreted his position as being pro-abortion in all cases for any reason, except gender. I found it a confusing stance to make.
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I think I heard about it on Babycenter. I find it sick kind of to abort a baby over a gender they didn't want. I wanted a girl really bad because I find girl clothes cuter and wanted to use my baby clothes on my baby but I was very disappointed when it turned out to be a boy. But I couldn't abort him for it. I was already at 20 weeks and I didn't want to lose another baby. But I learned to embrace it and I am glad I had this baby.
Playing god people call it.
Wait wait wait hold on stop, diaper girl is breeding now?
Who let this happen!? :zombiefuck:
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No I think people should be able to have abortions for any reason, including gender. I don't like it and I don't think it's cool, but I support abortion for any reason as long as it''s first trimester.
The fact that people wouldabort because of that just highlights what I think IS the problem though - people caring too much about the sex of their child when it should be irrelevant unless they are medical reasons why
I still support their aborting though, because I think abortionshould be allowed in ANY case, regardles of the reason
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I think I heard about it on Babycenter. I find it sick kind of to abort a baby over a gender they didn't want. I wanted a girl really bad because I find girl clothes cuter and wanted to use my baby clothes on my baby but I was very disappointed when it turned out to be a boy. But I couldn't abort him for it. I was already at 20 weeks and I didn't want to lose another baby. But I learned to embrace it and I am glad I had this baby.
Playing god people call it.
Wait wait wait hold on stop, diaper girl is breeding now?
Who let this happen!? :zombiefuck:
Yeah she had a baby a few months ago :orly:
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No I think people should be able to have abortions for any reason, including gender. I don't like it and I don't think it's cool, but I support abortion for any reason as long as it''s first trimester.
The fact that people wouldabort because of that just highlights what I think IS the problem though - people caring too much about the sex of their child when it should be irrelevant unless they are medical reasons why
I still support their aborting though, because I think abortionshould be allowed in ANY case, regardles of the reason
Well, you have a point. If the parents really want to abort that much, for a stupid reason like gender, then it's probably for the best anyway.
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that's what I mean
They're not exactly gonna be good parents to him if they wanted to abort him because he wasn't a girl (or vice versa)
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that's what I mean
They're not exactly gonna be good parents to him if they wanted to abort him because he wasn't a girl (or vice versa)
Yes, you can find out the gender of the embryo in the first trimester if you do Chorionic Villus Sampling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorionic_villus_sampling), but that test has some risks. You can have an amniocentesis as early as 15 - 16 weeks, which is a test where they stick a giant needle into the mother's uterus to draw out some amniotic fluid and find out the baby's chromosomes from that. That test also has risks, but less than CVS.
People usually don't find out the sex of the baby until they can see the baby's genitals with an ultrasound, at 18 - 20 weeks.
The parents in this story wouldn't have gotten pregnant with sons in the first place if Australia would have let them implant only female zygotes in their IVF procedure like they do in the US, though.
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Which is just as bad
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Which is just as bad
No it's not, not unless you claim a zygote, which is a tiny blob of cells grown in a Petri dish, one cell of which can be checked to find out its genetic makeup, is exactly the same as an embryo. I don't think you claim that since you objected earlier in this thread to me calling a fetus a child.
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No it's not,
I disagree
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No it's not,
I disagree
Feel free to elaborate
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Because my point was about caring too much about the sex of the kid. Actually choosing what sex your child is is wrong. 1 what if there is a mistake and it actually ends up male/female instead? 2 what if the kid doesn't end up how they wanted it? just because a kid has a penis doesnt mean it will be the boy you want, or the girl you want if it has a vagina. People shouldn't be obsessing over the penis/vagina of their potential child in the first place
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Because my point was about caring too much about the sex of the kid. Actually choosing what sex your child is is wrong. 1 what if there is a mistake and it actually ends up male/female instead? 2 what if the kid doesn't end up how they wanted it? just because a kid has a penis doesnt mean it will be the boy you want, or the girl you want if it has a vagina. People shouldn't be obsessing over the penis/vagina of their potential child in the first place
But can't this just be extended to everything else you have expressed? Why should parents obsess about their child's autism status or physical health?
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Because that's about wanting what's best for your child, not wanting some ideal little kid like a posession
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Because that's about wanting what's best for your child, not wanting some ideal little kid like a posession
As the father of an autistic child I firmly disagree with you. Just because my child has a different neurostatus than the majority does mean it isn't "best" for him.
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Because that's about wanting what's best for your child, not wanting some ideal little kid like a posession
I also disagree. My daughter was born with heart, kidney, and spine problems as well as autism, but that doesn't imply to me that I should have gotten rid of her instead of having her. How would that have been "best for her"?
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Well technically it would have
Whether or not the kids are better off with or without autism (and as autism is a disability I would say they're better off without), the fact still stands that people concerned about their kids having autism ARE (usually) concerned about it FOR THE KID. Not for what they want the kid to be like themselevs
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Well technically it would have
Whether or not the kids are better off with or without autism (and as autism is a disability I would say they're better off without), the fact still stands that people concerned about their kids having autism ARE (usually) concerned about it FOR THE KID. Not for what they want the kid to be like themselevs
What do you mean? Do you mean that a child is better off dead rather than having problems, health or otherwise?
Take yourself as an example. Would you prefer to be dead than be the way you are with the OCD and stuff?
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Well, yes actually :zoinks:
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Well, yes actually :zoinks:
Emo! :hahaha: :litigious:
:zoinks:
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:laugh:
Actually, I would rather I had never been born in the first place, which is even more relevant
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:laugh:
Actually, I would rather I had never been born in the first place, which is even more relevant
People who truly believe that take no joy in life. You are not one of those people.
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I don't think that's true. It depends on whether the joys you take from life is worth the misery
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Well, yes actually :zoinks:
Well, my daughter's not like you in that case. She's happy she's here, problems and all.
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I don't think that's true. It depends on whether the joys you take from life is worth the misery
Or, you can make the most of what you've got. I bet this guy's parents are glad they had him;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_24_qTNac&feature=related
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:laugh:
Actually, I would rather I had never been born in the first place, which is even more relevant
Have come back to this thread three times to try to respond and can't quite get it right. Maybe tomorrow.
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I don't think that's true. It depends on whether the joys you take from life is worth the misery
Or, you can make the most of what you've got.
I think both can be true though. I try and make the most of what I have, but that doesn't change how I feel about my life. I was asked and I'm not gonna lie :-\
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I don't think that's true. It depends on whether the joys you take from life is worth the misery
Or, you can make the most of what you've got.
I think both can be true though. I try and make the most of what I have, but that doesn't change how I feel about my life. I was asked and I'm not gonna lie :-\
I think we both know I have some pretty strong views on this subject and I know you would take offense if I was honest about them.
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You can post them if you want. I don't think I will take offense
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You can post them if you want. I don't think I will take offense
Okay. Have noticed there's two types of misanthropes in the world, the arrogant and the self-loathing. Think you should stop projecting your own self-loathing onto the sense of morality of others. I think you're better than you think you are, and maybe you could do with a bit of arrogance.
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Ok, but how do you think I'm projecting it onto others? Do you mean by saying people shouldn't be choosing the sex of their kids etc?
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Yes, somewhat, do think I recall you saying you support abortion for any reason. Though my response is more related to your responses to the parents on the previous page.
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What exactly? You mean caalaway?
I do support abortion for any reason early on, including sex
I just think someone who cares that much about the sex of their potential child needs to get their priorities right. I think it's wrong to care too much about how you WANT your child to be like, other than healthy, happy, secure, loved etc.
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I was responding to this:
:laugh:
Actually, I would rather I had never been born in the first place, which is even more relevant
Have come back to this thread three times to try to respond and can't quite get it right. Maybe tomorrow.
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Im responding to the OP, I dont know what ya'll are going on about
Here is what I think
Is it horrible ? reprehensible ? disgusting ?
yes of course.
I dont agree with abortion at all, for any reason really. I certainly wouldnt have one. I'm also smart enough to know what a condom is.
but, I think it should be legal and available for anyone who wants to do it. I really dont care WHY.
anyone ever read "the cider house rules ?"