INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: 'andersom' on October 17, 2010, 06:07:11 AM
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FBI watches over you. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101016/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants)
By PAUL ELIAS, Associated Press Writer Paul Elias, Associated Press Writer – Sat Oct 16, 2:30 pm ET
SAN FRANCISCO – Yasir Afifi, a 20-year-old computer salesman and community college student, took his car in for an oil change earlier this month and his mechanic spotted an odd wire hanging from the undercarriage.
The wire was attached to a strange magnetic device that puzzled Afifi and the mechanic. They freed it from the car and posted images of it online, asking for help in identifying it.
Two days later, FBI agents arrived at Afifi's Santa Clara apartment and demanded the return of their property — a global positioning system tracking device now at the center of a raging legal debate over privacy rights.
One federal judge wrote that the widespread use of the device was straight out of George Orwell's novel, "1984".
"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives," wrote Alex Kozinski, the chief judge of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a blistering dissent in which a three-judge panel from his court ruled that search warrants weren't necessary for GPS tracking.
But other federal and state courts have come to the opposite conclusion.
Law enforcement advocates for the devices say GPS can eliminate time-consuming stakeouts and old-fashioned "tails" with unmarked police cars. The technology had a starring role in the HBO cops-and-robbers series "The Wire" and police use it to track every type of suspect — from terrorist to thieves stealing copper from air conditioners.
That investigators don't need a warrant to use GPS tracking devices in California troubles privacy advocates, technophiles, criminal defense attorneys and others.
The federal appeals court based in Washington D.C. said in August that investigators must obtain a warrant for GPS in tossing out the conviction and life sentence of Antoine Jones, a nightclub owner convicted of operating a cocaine distribution ring. That court concluded that the accumulation of four-weeks worth of data collected from a GPS on Jones' Jeep amounted to a government "search" that required a search warrant.
Judge Douglas Ginsburg said watching Jones' Jeep for an entire month rather than trailing him on one trip made all the difference between surveilling a suspect on public property and a search needing court approval.
"First, unlike one's movements during a single journey, the whole of one's movements over the course of a month is not actually exposed to the public because the likelihood anyone will observe all those movements is effectively nil," Ginsburg wrote. The state high courts of New York, Washington and Oregon have ruled similarly.
The Obama administration last month asked the D.C. federal appeals court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."
After the D.C. appeals court decision, the 9th Circuit refused to revisit its opposite ruling.
The panel had concluded that agents could have gathered the same information by following Juan Pineda-Moreno, who was convicted of marijuana distribution after a GPS device alerted agents he was leaving a suspected "grow site."
"The only information the agents obtained from the tracking devices was a log of the locations where Pineda-Moreno's car traveled, information the agents could have obtained by following the car," Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain wrote for the three-judge panel.
Two other federal appeals court have ruled similarly.
In his dissent, Chief Judge Kozinski noted that GPS technology is far different from tailing a suspect on a public road, which requires the active participation of investigators.
"The devices create a permanent electronic record that can be compared, contrasted and coordinated to deduce all manner of private information about individuals," Kozinksi wrote.
Legal scholars predict the U.S. Supreme Court will ultimately resolve the issue since so many courts disagree.
George Washington University law professor Orin Kerr said the issue boils down to public vs. private. As long as the GPS devices are attached to vehicles on public roads, Kerr believes the U.S. Supreme Court will decide no warrant is needed. To decide otherwise, he said, would ignore a long line of previous 4th Amendment decisions allowing for warrantless searches as long as they're conducted on public property.
"The historic line is that public surveillance is not covered by the 4th Amendment," Kerr said.
All of which makes Afifi's lawyer pessimistic that he has much of a chance to file a successful lawsuit challenging the FBI's actions. Afifi is represented by Zahra Billoo of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the country's largest Islamic civil rights group.
Afifi declined comment after spending last week fielding myriad media inquiries after wired.com posted the story of his routine oil change and it went viral on the Internet.
Still, Billoo hopes the discovered GPS tracking device will help publicize in dramatic fashion the issue of racial profiling the lawyer says Arab-Americans routinely encounter.
She said Afifi was targeted because of his extensive ties to the Middle East, which include supporting two brothers who live in Egypt and making frequent overseas trips. His father was a well-known Islamic-American community leader who died last year in Egypt.
"Yasir hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of surveillance," Billoo said. "This was a blatant example of profiling."
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I saw that yesterday and was thinking of posting it :thumbup: I think it's disgusting they do these things without a warrant. I really don't think it's that much of a hardship for the FBI to obtain one if there is a real reason. All this bullshit about saving manpower and time is just that. I also was thinking of how much power it would take to jam one of those
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Found this on building your own jammer :green:
http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=60&id=13
I want one just to fuck with people :zoinks:
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I saw that yesterday and was thinking of posting it :thumbup: I think it's disgusting they do these things without a warrant. I really don't think it's that much of a hardship for the FBI to obtain one if there is a real reason. All this bullshit about saving manpower and time is just that. I also was thinking of how much power it would take to jam one of those
Now the man and his mechanic posted pics on the internet, wondering what it was. And the FBI asked back their stuff. What if they had just tossed it away. Would the owner of the car have been prosecuted as a dangerous terrorist, trying to evade the control?
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I saw that yesterday and was thinking of posting it :thumbup: I think it's disgusting they do these things without a warrant. I really don't think it's that much of a hardship for the FBI to obtain one if there is a real reason. All this bullshit about saving manpower and time is just that. I also was thinking of how much power it would take to jam one of those
Now the man and his mechanic posted pics on the internet, wondering what it was. And the FBI asked back their stuff. What if they had just tossed it away. Would the owner of the car have been prosecuted as a dangerous terrorist, trying to evade the control?
I don't know but, if they knew what it was, they should have placed it on another car by 'accident' for amusement. :zoinks:
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I saw that yesterday and was thinking of posting it :thumbup: I think it's disgusting they do these things without a warrant. I really don't think it's that much of a hardship for the FBI to obtain one if there is a real reason. All this bullshit about saving manpower and time is just that. I also was thinking of how much power it would take to jam one of those
Now the man and his mechanic posted pics on the internet, wondering what it was. And the FBI asked back their stuff. What if they had just tossed it away. Would the owner of the car have been prosecuted as a dangerous terrorist, trying to evade the control?
I don't know but, if they knew what it was, they should have placed it on another car by 'accident' for amusement. :zoinks:
:laugh:
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I saw that yesterday and was thinking of posting it :thumbup: I think it's disgusting they do these things without a warrant. I really don't think it's that much of a hardship for the FBI to obtain one if there is a real reason. All this bullshit about saving manpower and time is just that. I also was thinking of how much power it would take to jam one of those
Now the man and his mechanic posted pics on the internet, wondering what it was. And the FBI asked back their stuff. What if they had just tossed it away. Would the owner of the car have been prosecuted as a dangerous terrorist, trying to evade the control?
It would not have been in one piece if I had found it I tend to take everything apart
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I read that article and I was outraged. I think there's a big difference between tailing a suspect and slapping one of those on his car to track all his movements for a month without a warrant. I think Big Brother is using them in cases where they couldn't even get a warrant so they can fish for information and the only reason they wouldn't just do it to anyone even if there's no evidence of a crime is that it would be too expensive. If the price comes down, they would stick them on a lot more cars for even flimsier reasons.
This bothered me greatly:
The Obama administration last month asked the D.C. federal appeals court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."
Why is the Obama administration tryng to insinuate itself into the courts and affect a federal court ruling? Given the fact that different federal courts have ruled differently on the issue, it's going to the Supreme Court.
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This is wrong in so many ways, but not surprising.
He had 2 days, as soon as I found out what it was (which probably took all of about an hour on the net) I would have listed it on Ebay. >:D
Afterall he did find it on his car didn't he? :zoinks:
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I woulda took a shit on it, THEN gave it back.
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1984 is coming slowly. :P
I'm not too worried as I've nothing to hide.
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Not that I need to keep things secret, but I do like some kind of privacy.
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1984 is coming slowly. :P
I'm not too worried as I've nothing to hide.
People who say that and just go along with the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear " mentality are bringing 1984 on even quicker.
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I don't worry about stuff like this - ennough other shit to think about, whatever :laugh:
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1984 is coming slowly. :P
I'm not too worried as I've nothing to hide.
People who say that and just go along with the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear " mentality are bringing 1984 on even quicker.
QFT
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This is proof that the FBI, or Fucking Bastards Incorporated have always been a ratshit organization. They had a man in charge who was a cross-dressing fag, they kept files on innocent people because they 'thought' (yeah, anachronism there) that these people would do 'soemthing subversive'. Lennon, Chaplin, Monroe, even Kennedy were held to ransom by these fuckers, and now we see that this dumbfuckery they are practising is actually OK'd by certain courts! They make the KGB, MI5 and other spy organizations (including their fucked up CIA) look like honest businesses the way they carry on.
What would have happened, say, if the poor bastard who had the device was just an average Joe, with an average job, a wife, kids, and a Cuban cigar? He sells his car to some other slob, who gets pulled up by that bunch of fuckwits because their GPS has 'chucked a wobbly'. FBI - 1, poor slob - 0, because how do you fight those cunts without the proper backup?
But, apparently, other countries are starting similar shit. The UK (correct me if I'm wrong, Soph) are doing things with cameras and GPS on cars as well, mainly to track stolen vehicles. Unfortuantely, they get the details screwed up, and some innocent bastard gets caught up.
Orwell may have been writing about Stalin (as the book was published in 1949), but it seems to fit any age, and just fill in the blank with the name of the organization concerned.
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1984 is coming slowly. :P
I'm not too worried as I've nothing to hide.
People who say that and just go along with the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear " mentality are bringing 1984 on even quicker.
There's a limit when I'm accused of things I don't do or when it gets that ridiculous that there's cameras in every room.
However, I am prepared for the possibility of that.
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Facebook and other social networking site can be far more effective spying tools than CCTV surveillance and tracking bugs. Most mainstream people are narcissistic idiots who accept any friend request regardless who it is and brag about their lives. People still suffer this misconception that the internet is rather anonymous and difficult to identify you in real life unless you know them, so you can safely get away with talking about almost anything. However, as some of us savvy ones know, net-detectives can exploit such people to not only figure out the target's life, but anyone in association to them.
In fact FBI agents are already spying on social networking sites by 'friending' people to gain access to peoples' pages:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/13/government-spying-social-networks/?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/13/government-spying-social-networks/?test=latestnews)
I know FAUX News, but common sense would tell you that in the intelligence business, social networking sites would be the ultimate gold mine for such information without needing warrants. That's one reason why I got away from Facebook, other than the fact Facebook sells your personal information to third party advertisers and corporations.
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Facebook and other social networking site can be far more effective spying tools than CCTV surveillance and tracking bugs. Most mainstream people are narcissistic idiots who accept any friend request regardless who it is and brag about their lives. People still suffer this misconception that the internet is rather anonymous and difficult to identify you in real life unless you know them, so you can safely get away with talking about almost anything. However, as some of us savvy ones know, net-detectives can exploit such people to not only figure out the target's life, but anyone in association to them.
In fact FBI agents are already spying on social networking sites by 'friending' people to gain access to peoples' pages:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/13/government-spying-social-networks/?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/10/13/government-spying-social-networks/?test=latestnews)
I know FAUX News, but common sense would tell you that in the intelligence business, social networking sites would be the ultimate gold mine for such information without needing warrants. That's one reason why I got away from Facebook, other than the fact Facebook sells your personal information to third party advertisers and corporations.
How many FB users would actually know this already and are actually posting stuff to troll the authorities?
Those fuckwits in the FBI would be so anally retentive they wouldn't spot the joke until it hit them in the eye.
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They could be watching us right now. :zoinks:
Hello cuntfaces!
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They could be watching us right now. :zoinks:
Hello cuntfaces!
Lets post some n00dz to really get them going.
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They could be watching us right now. :zoinks:
Hello cuntfaces!
True, but I2 is hardly as popular as myspace or facebook, so it's less likely. They would only be watching if someone on here is already on their watch list, or say certain things regarding assassination or Islamic terrorism. :tinfoil:
There's no escape from it really, even just by using google, you're giving hints about your personality, habits and even identity by doing that. Thing is about google though, I think they still need a warrant to investigate google's logs.
However social networking sites are worse because if you put too much trust in them, you'll say things there that you'll less likely to say on a random forum. Also it comes with the added bonus of not needing a warrant to 'spy' on someone Facebook, Myspace, etc page too.
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
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I read that article and I was outraged. I think there's a big difference between tailing a suspect and slapping one of those on his car to track all his movements for a month without a warrant. I think Big Brother is using them in cases where they couldn't even get a warrant so they can fish for information and the only reason they wouldn't just do it to anyone even if there's no evidence of a crime is that it would be too expensive. If the price comes down, they would stick them on a lot more cars for even flimsier reasons.
This bothered me greatly:
The Obama administration last month asked the D.C. federal appeals court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."
Why is the Obama administration tryng to insinuate itself into the courts and affect a federal court ruling? Given the fact that different federal courts have ruled differently on the issue, it's going to the Supreme Court.
This just in: Obama is as much a fascist as President George W. Bush. More at 11 if we're still on the air.
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
wow, what did you do?
and i know the governemt are grimy bastards, they also know about aliens. and also, they act like bitches because whos gonna put the cuffs on there sorrys asses? the good people of jupiter? :laugh:
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
What, the Geelong Football Club?
You must be popular. :LOL:
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
What, the Geelong Football Club?
You must be popular. :LOL:
*snigger* good one steve-o :LOL:
But you guys missed the STD and the IUD.........
Loup
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
wow, what did you do?
and i know the governemt are grimy bastards, they also know about aliens. and also, they act like bitches because whos gonna put the cuffs on there sorrys asses? the good people of jupiter? :laugh:
I am a rogue counterintelligence werewolf and I must be stopped.
Loup
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
What, the Geelong Football Club?
You must be popular. :LOL:
*snigger* good one steve-o :LOL:
But you guys missed the STD and the IUD.........
Loup
:plus:
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
What, the Geelong Football Club?
You must be popular. :LOL:
*snigger* good one steve-o :LOL:
But you guys missed the STD and the IUD.........
Loup
I noticed, just couldn't work out what Subscriber Trunk Dialling had to do with it.
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I am on the FBI watch list, according to the CIA, after my debut appearance on Australia's Most Wanted. MI6 was also interested in my performance as well as Mossad. The IPCC, WHO, and other less fortunate organisations such as Hamas and the Taliban, have also shown an interest in my affairs. STD, IUD, GFC and a few other notable bodies are also watching me closely.
I am a wanted werewolf.
Loup
What, the Geelong Football Club?
You must be popular. :LOL:
*snigger* good one steve-o :LOL:
But you guys missed the STD and the IUD.........
Loup
I noticed, just couldn't work out what Subscriber Trunk Dialling had to do with it.
:LMAO: :LMAO:
Loup
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I read that article and I was outraged. I think there's a big difference between tailing a suspect and slapping one of those on his car to track all his movements for a month without a warrant. I think Big Brother is using them in cases where they couldn't even get a warrant so they can fish for information and the only reason they wouldn't just do it to anyone even if there's no evidence of a crime is that it would be too expensive. If the price comes down, they would stick them on a lot more cars for even flimsier reasons.
This bothered me greatly:
The Obama administration last month asked the D.C. federal appeals court to change its ruling, calling the decision "vague and unworkable" and arguing that investigators will lose access to a tool they now use "with great frequency."
Why is the Obama administration tryng to insinuate itself into the courts and affect a federal court ruling? Given the fact that different federal courts have ruled differently on the issue, it's going to the Supreme Court.
This just in: Obama is as much a fascist as President George W. Bush. More at 11 if we're still on the air.
*BUMP*
Even more up to date 3 years later, alas.
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Big brother and the current administration can suck my fucking dick. Simply put, they do not have my respect.
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Big brother and the current administration can suck my fucking dick. Simply put, they do not have my respect.
Don't you dare! I don't want to get a nasty disease from Big Brother.
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Big brother and the current administration can suck my fucking dick. Simply put, they do not have my respect.
Don't you dare! I don't want to get a nasty disease from Big Brother.
Then they can always do this...
Wesley Willis - Suck a Cheetah's Dick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnCk0uGwFZI#)