INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: jman on June 16, 2007, 10:25:08 PM
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A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die. If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.
I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?
Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Dwyer) a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:
Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg
The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.
Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Ritscher), he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:
http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/
Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.
Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?
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Have you lost anyone to suicide?
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I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.
life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that might be.
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it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.
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I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.
life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that might be.
I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly. I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well, I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded. I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren. Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much. Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.
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it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.
Yes but I remember in one thread you made a reference to "sink or swim" when it comes to life, and the fact that person has offed himself shows that the person has sunk. Even though many times the obstacles are only perceived to be insurmoutable and the pain never ending, the person has still sunk because they are now dead. Despite the fact the person didn;t realize the options that were layed out in front of him, in the end the person is still dead and their is not much he (obviosily) or anyone else can do about it.
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I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.
life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that might be.
I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly. I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well, I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded. I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren. Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much. Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.
actually I take back what I originally about not knowing someone that commited suicide. When I was a senior in High School their was a sophmore, he was real popular and on the football team, and yet he still hung himself on the front porch.
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it is an easy solution/way out for a quitter.
Yes but I remember in one thread you made a reference to "sink or swim" when it comes to life, and the fact that person has offed himself shows that the person has sunk. Even though many times the obstacles are only perceived to be insurmoutable and the pain never ending, the person has still sunk because they are now dead. Despite the fact the person didn;t realize the options that were layed out in front of him, in the end the person is still dead and their is not much he (obviosily) or anyone else can do about it.
the intended spirit, at leat the one i was making was that you should always fight, neve give up.
why?
because you never know.
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because you never know.
lol true mayve that should be my trademark. :green:
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I am not sure what you are implying but the answer is no. The point of posting this was to try to get people to see it from the suicidal person's point of view. I would most certainly be devasted of someone I knew decided to off themself, however I also realize from my own experience that it they had their own reasons to do it, whether or not people think they are raitonal is irrelevant because it was for their reasons and their reasons alone.
life can be totally unfair and painful, however it can be comforting to learn to come to terms and accept things as they have happened, as hard as that might be.
I'm trying to understand if you have been exposed to it directly. I've counselled people who were suicidal and once they were well, I doubt any of them looked back and wished they had succeeded. I also lost a friend when I was 16 to suicide and two family members, all of whom I think would deeply regret the moment they took their lives, missing out on seeing their beautiful children and now grandchildren. Every family gathering is missing those people, the ones who made us laugh so much. Suicide is a tragic loss...even more so because the person at the time is in a delusional state.
Euthanasia is a completely different topic.
actually I take back what I originally about not knowing someone that commited suicide. When I was a senior in High School their was a sophmore, he was real popular and on the football team, and yet he still hung himself on the front porch.
Yes, but was he your friend? Not that suicide does not impact on the school etc...it's just in your post you said people should just console themselves with the fact that the person did what they wanted to do. Not much comfort for someone's children or parents in reality unfortunately.
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A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die. If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.
I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?
Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Dwyer) a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:
Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg
The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.
Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Ritscher), he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:
http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/
Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.
Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?
I confess I skimmed....
but is suicide selfish? yes.
it is selfish, because some loved person has to come home, and find brains stuck to the windows.
it is selfish, because children will spend their lives wondering what THEY did wrong.
it is selfish, because it removes all responsibility from the dead person, and tosses it into the lap of their loved ones.
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A lot of people consider suicide to be a cowardly act, but is it really? A lot of people fear death because it is a state that the mind cannot comprehend. Making a permanent decision like this despite the persons' darkest despair is actually quite brave. A lot of people consider suicide to be selfish, but is it really more selfish to let the person live in pain just because you can't emotionally deal with the fact that the person is gone. The fact is, it is the person's life and body and they have every right to do with it as they please, including ending it. I don't understand why people feel the need to intervene when someone wants to die. If one can't cope with life, then IMHO maybe it would be better if they are dead. It's not fair to a person to have to continue to live a miserable life just so a few people can pat themselves on the back.
I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?
Now in some cases suicide is a cowardly act. Take Budd Dwyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Dwyer) a Pennsylvania politician who offed himself during a televised press conference after being charged with receiving kickbacks and was facing 55 years in prison. Killing yourself in front of other people is not fair to the people around you, humans do not handle violent trauma especially the way he did it as you can see in this interesting yet extremely graphic and disturbing video:
Warning this is an extremely graphic video
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/SUICIDE/dwyer.mpg
The reason I posted that video is to show the dramatic effects a live suicide has on people. Yes you have the right to die, but you can atleast have the common courtesy to isolate yourself. The fact that you commited suicide is painful enough for the people around you, why would you do the act in front of others, especially in such a violent fashon as Budd did.
Then their are people who commit suicide to make a political statement such as the self-immolation of Malachi Ritscher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Ritscher), he did this on the kennedy expressway in Chicago back in 2006 to protest the Iraq war. While I find doing this to be a bit extreme, it does send a powerful message as seen by the site:
http://www.iheardyoumalachi.org/
Ending your own life over something that matters to you is a good way to drive your point across as you can see by the site posted above.
Well those are my views on suicide. Although dealing with the suicide of someone you know is painful, I think people should show more respect and compassion for the person's decision as he was only doing what he felt was right in the moment. After all we are all human. What do you guys think?
I confess I skimmed....
but is suicide selfish? yes.
it is selfish, because some loved person has to come home, and find brains stuck to the windows.
it is selfish, because children will spend their lives wondering what THEY did wrong.
it is selfish, because it removes all responsibility from the dead person, and tosses it into the lap of their loved ones.
:agreed:
:plus:
I had a good friend whose father killed himself when my friend was just four years old.
I think that there is often a lot of anger on the part of the suicidal person directed toward the family members who have to find his/her body.
I don't think it is a good thing for a four year old boy to see his father with the top of his head blown off.
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
that is completely different, isn't it?
if there was someone with a gun at my kids, I would launch myself in front of them to save them if I could.
that isn't selfish.
offing yourself...because you "can't take it" or feel "like you are drowning" or are "full of despair"...
that is all self centered bullshit.
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
What do you mean by indirectly?
I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter? What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
What do you mean by indirectly?
I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter? What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?
By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.
Seen Donnie Darko?
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
What do you mean by indirectly?
I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter? What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?
By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.
Seen Donnie Darko?
No, I never did.
Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
What do you mean by indirectly?
I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter? What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?
By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.
Seen Donnie Darko?
No, I never did.
Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?
More on the lines of donating your heart for another person, when there is no indication that you would otherwise die in the foreseeable future.
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Is it ok to sacrifice your own life to save another's, even if indirectly? Furthermore, if you succeed in the first part, but fail in the second, was it the effort that counts or was it 'wrong'?
What do you mean by indirectly?
I would die to save my husband or daughter, but if I killed myself because I was depressed or for some other reason of that type, then who would take care of my daughter? What would happen to her, growing up without a mother?
By indirectly, I mean not like taking the bullet aimed at another, but allowing your life to be taken so that, through a chain of events and a period of time, probably in another location, another's is spared.
Seen Donnie Darko?
No, I never did.
Do you mean like donating a kidney to a relative and later having kidney failure with your remaining kidney?
More on the lines of donating your heart for another person, when there is no indication that you would otherwise die in the foreseeable future.
Has that ever happened?
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I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end. He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.
Here is a blurb for it:
There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.
That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000. Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.
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I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end. He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.
Here is a blurb for it:
There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.
That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000. Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.
Does she still have those problems?
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Has that ever happened?
It's hypothetical, silly-billy!
I saw a movie called John Q with Denzel Washington where he planned to do that for his son who needed a heart, but he did not have to in the end. He knew he was an appropriate tissue type match for his son, so he planned to kill himself so the heart transplant surgeon could use his heart for his son.
Here is a blurb for it:
There is probably no stronger love than that felt between a parent and a small child. In John Q, this is explored through a father's desperate attempt to get a heart transplant for his dying son. When he and his wife discover that their insurance will not cover such a costly procedure he grows more and more frustrated until finally he does the only thing he has left to do. He takes over the emergency room, holding several patients, interns and a doctor hostage, demanding that his son is placed on the heart donor list.
That is what my daughter's medical bills were, $250,000. Thank goodness we had health insurance that covered her, even though it was a HMO which kept sending her home from the hospital to die.
A similar situation would be shooting yourself in the head in a location that would keep you "alive" (the frontal lobe?) so that your organs could be used for transplant.
I saw a movie called Bloodwork with Clint Eastwood, in which a serial killer murdered people in such a way to preserve their bodies so that the detective hunting him (ol' Clint) could receive their heart (he needed a new one).
Anyway, what I'm trying to say/ask; is it ok to value someone else's life above your own? You may still value your life, but sacrifice it for one of more perceived value.
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I'm all for it.
But, for me, it
would have to be
in a moment of
absolute perfection -
and NOT out of
despair. Everyone
should have the right
to opt out, but perhaps
only after discussing it
with their loved ones.
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In my opinion forcing a person to live when it isnt THEIR mind and body at risk is INCREDIBLY selfish. I can understand people worrying that a suicidal person is placing his bets unreasonably(about the chances of shit getting better) or thinking they are percieving the world in an unreasonably dark light, but regardless of what is wrong with their reasoning, it is the suicidal who will carry the burden of pain and despair if the white knight trying to convince them that the world is all sunshine and lolllipops is wrong.
Everybody has a sense of self preservation. Threat of pain, non-existance, hell, and the old question "what if?" all provide ample incentive to a person to not commit suicide. If suicide was easy, then the moment a person decided that chances were shit were gonna suck for far too long to make living worth it, they'd commit suicide without a second thought. There would be no moping, whining, cries for help, or talking with people about suicide, just boom, one thursday, dead.
Commiting suicide isn't easy. People who think that those commiting suicide are cowardly, weak, or quitters are applying THEIR perception of the world to a person who they know nothing about the inside of his head. That is short sighted, arrogant, and incompassionate. If someone does commit suicide, it takes every ounce of will they have left in the tattered disillusioned thing that is their soul.
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Yeah, it sure the hell isn't easy.
I don't know what makes people
think that it is. It often seems
the rational choice, given circumstances.
BUT, making others suffer is wrong too.
One should at least have some consideration.
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Suicide is a right and I support it and denouce it with equal measure. It's just one of those things you can do nothing about. Government nor industry should waste any funds on paying any attention to it whatsoever. Let it be.
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I find it arrogant and presumptious to say that a person is selfish for wanting to end their pain. Yes I have dealt with suicidal people close to me, and I don't buy the argument "the pain of watching somebody close to you die is far worse than the pain the suicidal person is feeling". Unless you've just had someone you love commit suicide and are considering killing yourself too because you can't stand to live without them, who are you to call it selfish? (and heck, what's wrong with selfish anyway?)
Besides, I believe strongly that no degree of obligation to others trumps one's right to control whether one lives or dies.
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For those of you who are saying suicide is selfish and cowardly, have any of you ever severe depression? I have, and the pain is indescribable both emotionally and physically. Can you imagine being so worn down that you are unable to get out of bed, barely move, and barely eat? Have any of you been too hopeless to hope? Well I have, and if it wasn't for the fact I had just enough will power to get myself to a hospital, I probably wouldn't be here writing this today. If someone you loved was suffering and dieing of cancer or another severe terminal illness and they said they wanted to kill themselves, would you let them do it? Wouldn't be more humane to just let them die? That is what it's like in a severe depression, I was lucky enough that I had enough energy left to get myself to the hospital, Not everyone is so lucky or if you're in America you may not even have the option.
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Yes, I have felt suicidal and depressed. And yes, I know full well how selfish I was being when my family, especially my mother, were constantly worried about me.
I can see Gnome's and Py's side of things, but it's a different ball game when you are surrounded by people who care about you.
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For those of you who are saying suicide is selfish and cowardly, have any of you ever severe depression? I have, and the pain is indescribable both emotionally and physically. Can you imagine being so worn down that you are unable to get out of bed, barely move, and barely eat? Have any of you been too hopeless to hope? Well I have, and if it wasn't for the fact I had just enough will power to get myself to a hospital, I probably wouldn't be here writing this today. If someone you loved was suffering and dieing of cancer or another severe terminal illness and they said they wanted to kill themselves, would you let them do it? Wouldn't be more humane to just let them die? That is what it's like in a severe depression, I was lucky enough that I had enough energy left to get myself to the hospital, Not everyone is so lucky or if you're in America you may not even have the option.
you are just feeling sorry for yourself.
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I also believe human beings should have a right to euthanasia. We'll happily put down a pet who is suffering, but not humans? Wouldn't it be more humane to let a cancer patient who is in excruciating pain and agony die peacefully?
I completely agree with this. My Nanna is dying from Alzheimer's Disease. She is not even my Nanna anymore, just a body. I believe it is cruel to keep her alive. Cruel for her and cruel for my family who have to see someone who used to have a strong personality just fade away. My mum said if Alzheimer's happened to her, she would end her life herself. I support her in this.
I have attempted suicide. Later I had ECT and I hoped that it would end it all for me. It was thought I was having it to get better but that was not what I was hoping at the time. Ironic that it helped me a little and I felt better. However, its effects are only temporary and I have experienced deep depression since then. It seems that I will always have some low grade depression (dysthymia). It is something I just have to live with.
One of my friends commited suicide when I was 17. He jumped in front of a fast moving train. I had an argument with him just a few hours before he did it and that was the last time I saw him alive. I am sorry about that. I also feel awful for the train driver.
I have good memories of my friend. I can also imagine his voice easily. I treasure that.
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I have had two suicides in My family a uncle and cousin. Even I have come close to doing Myself in too. Depression can be very hard to live with some days are good and some are bad and even some are ugly. My uncle and cousin where even under a doctor care. I have lived with suicidal thoughts for 20 plus years most of them without a doctor. I have always figured out something to keep Me Living in the end. Nothing is ever easily as living or dieing in the end. That is the honest truth as I see it.
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I find it arrogant and presumptious to say that a person is selfish for wanting to end their pain. Yes I have dealt with suicidal people close to me, and I don't buy the argument "the pain of watching somebody close to you die is far worse than the pain the suicidal person is feeling". Unless you've just had someone you love commit suicide and are considering killing yourself too because you can't stand to live without them, who are you to call it selfish? (and heck, what's wrong with selfish anyway?)
Besides, I believe strongly that no degree of obligation to others trumps one's right to control whether one lives or dies.
Do you mean me? I meant that it is selfish of the person asking a suicidal not to kill themselves. Because the one asking is not bearing the burden of the risk.
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I like how someone in the video says "Call the doctor!", when the guy's brain is streaming out through his nose.
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I have been severely depressed and suicidal. I don't think suicide in the case of depression is so much an act of pure selfishness and cowardice as one of lack of foresight. When you're experiencing a severe mental illness/emotional incapacitation, your ability to tell yourself "I will get though this"- and believe it- is shot to shit. I woudln't call it as morally reprehensible as some people seem to find it; more pitiable because when someone who is severely depressed kills themselves they may well lack the capacity to fully know just how illogical and how (to others) damaging what they are doing is. It's perhaps akin to having taken some extremely strong psychoactive drug that fucks up your thnking and emotions.
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The only person in my life to commit suicide that I can remember was a (not particularly close) friend who hung herself last year. I don't think that under any circumstances a person's decision to commit suicide should be validated, but once the decision is made, it's pretty ridiculous to dwell on the aspects that would be considered selfish, or to call that person a quitter or say that the world's better off without him/her, etc. To call suicide a selfish act is a cop-out because it undercuts the real issue that causes suicide; when people spend the energy that they use to categorize, mock, or avoid a suicidal person (going off what I noticed from the case I already mentioned) on first trying to offer company or support... It's the same thing as discouraging suicide on that basis that you "might survive" and be even more fucked up, why would you want to cut off that route with a negative statement?
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Do you mean me? I meant that it is selfish of the person asking a suicidal not to kill themselves. Because the one asking is not bearing the burden of the risk.
No, I actually agreed with most of your post. I hadn't read it when I wrote mine, so sorry if it was unclear who I was responding to.
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that video would have ruled if it was more clearer
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Do you mean me? I meant that it is selfish of the person asking a suicidal not to kill themselves. Because the one asking is not bearing the burden of the risk.
Selfish or not, if I love someone,
I will ask, and maybe do whatever
I can, to keep them alive.
Though, they might be able
to call on my love to help them
die.
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I can understand people around the suicidal being selfish and asking them to live despite their pain. And I dont object to them thrusting their selfishness onto that person(to a point), as it is part of the risk analysis of the suicidal. I object when they are using their wishes to guilt a person who would really be better off dead into living. But what I really object to is the attack on the person after they are dead. After a person kills themself people around them twist and pervert the memory of that person into a weak, cowardly, confused idiot. Rather than appreciate the pains that that person must have been subject to to get them to kill themselves, they make out the suicide to be a pathetic loser. Seeing them defame that person over that makes me want to blow MY brains out.
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I think the world would be a better place if there were a whole lot less people living in it. If suicide gets that done, then I am fine with people commiting suicide I guess.
I attempted suicide when I was 19 and it got me diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I get depressed quite easily and I really am not thinking about how my actions effect the lives of others when I am really depressed. I am focusing solely on how I feel and I am selfish in that regard. Other times with suicide I would rather take a whole bunch of people with me before I die. That is me basically being misanthropic, I hate almost everyone whenever I am really depressed (including myself). After I calm down a little I think about how those actions would negatively effect my family and friends. That is what has stopped me from attempting suicide more than just that one time. When I stop caring about how my actions effect my family and friends, then I am in trouble.
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But what I really object to is the attack on the person after they are dead. After a person kills themself people around them twist and pervert the memory of that person into a weak, cowardly, confused idiot.
What I object to is the degree to which people's discomfort with the idea of suicide increases the pain and isolation that suicidal people feel. I know to a degree that it's inevitable, because any issue with a lot of emotion attached is going to have its share of people with fanatic/extreme views. But despite being capitalistic under most circumstances, I take a communistic approach to extreme pain - as in, sharing it between people is better than having it all on a single person. So if it causes people mild pain to put aside their emotions in order to approach a suicidal person candidly and just listen to them (instead of overwhelming them with "suicide is wrong", "life is good", "you have everything to live for", which is what tends to happen when a healthy person talks to a suicidal person), then putting aside discomfort with the issue is the ethical thing to do.
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I can understand people around the suicidal being selfish and asking them to live despite their pain. And I dont object to them thrusting their selfishness onto that person(to a point), as it is part of the risk analysis of the suicidal. I object when they are using their wishes to guilt a person who would really be better off dead into living. But what I really object to is the attack on the person after they are dead. After a person kills themself people around them twist and pervert the memory of that person into a weak, cowardly, confused idiot. Rather than appreciate the pains that that person must have been subject to to get them to kill themselves, they make out the suicide to be a pathetic loser. Seeing them defame that person over that makes me want to blow MY brains out.
How old were you when your mother died, Nomaken?
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But what I really object to is the attack on the person after they are dead. After a person kills themself people around them twist and pervert the memory of that person into a weak, cowardly, confused idiot.
What I object to is the degree to which people's discomfort with the idea of suicide increases the pain and isolation that suicidal people feel. I know to a degree that it's inevitable, because any issue with a lot of emotion attached is going to have its share of people with fanatic/extreme views. But despite being capitalistic under most circumstances, I take a communistic approach to extreme pain - as in, sharing it between people is better than having it all on a single person. So if it causes people mild pain to put aside their emotions in order to approach a suicidal person candidly and just listen to them (instead of overwhelming them with "suicide is wrong", "life is good", "you have everything to live for", which is what tends to happen when a healthy person talks to a suicidal person), then putting aside discomfort with the issue is the ethical thing to do.
Yes. That's all that my wife's friends would give her.
At least I was honest with her, and explained my
selfish reasons why I wanted her to live.
Gods, I love her.
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At least I was honest with her, and explained my
selfish reasons why I wanted her to live.
Did she then say something like "you can't possibly understand or you wouldn't ask that from me"?
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that video would have ruled if it was more clearer
So the cameraman needed to do a more gooder job??
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At least I was honest with her, and explained my
selfish reasons why I wanted her to live.
Did she then say something like "you can't possibly understand or you wouldn't ask that from me"?
No. She knew that I could understand.
She just saw it as false of me, but reasonable.
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that video would have ruled if it was more clearer
So the cameraman needed to do a more gooder job??
i could barely make out anything dog. pixleation was all over the place
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Are you dead yet? LOL
Maybe if you were the normal ones, you wouldn't be so depressed all the time, eh?
Someone is going to murder you anyway, be easier for us if you did it yourself.
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Been waiting 7 years to post that? :thumbup:
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Been waiting 7 years to post that? :thumbup:
It looks like Scrappy Doo has some competition in the necrobumping department. :GA: