INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Tequila on August 17, 2018, 03:56:54 AM
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E-cigarettes can be key weapon against smoking, say MPs (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45212444)
Rules around e-cigarettes should be relaxed so they can be more widely used and accepted in society, says a report by a committee of MPs.
Vaping is much less harmful than normal cigarettes and e-cigarettes should be made available on prescription to help more people quit smoking, it said.
The report also asks the government (https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/science-and-technology-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/e-cigarettes-17-19/) to consider their use on public transport.
Eminently sensible stuff from the MPs. It redresses the balance quite nicely - the EU rules are far too strict, we need a laissez-faire attitude to this.
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IMO quality control is the important issue, not restriction, which if it results (and it will, if people have used them to quit, or even smoke less its a good thing IMO, not like smoking is a good thing) in more tobacco smoking, it can hardly be THAT much worse than tobacco smoking.
Although the quality control is something that seems to need addressing big time. I just got a letter recently, presumably followed up from card transactions (kinda gives me the creeps, though admittedly that tobacco firms are allowed access to that sort of data, there's no other way it could have been obtained, it rather sets a low bar on who else could get access to it. Can't see big tobacco firms running illegal credit card scams, since they already have everything in place to rob you blind to your face, they don't need to start illegally using cards, but if a pack of shits like Big Tobacco can, who doubtless aren't making the batteries themselves...)
Got a letter saying something to the effect of 'urgent recall, check serial numbers because theres a chance XYZ could blow your fucking head off'. Glad they did too, because I've a spare battery, so I can put one of them on charge and use the other, and turn out one of them is, it seems, trouble waiting to happen (made by Vype, or for them, if anyone else has batteries made by/for them.)
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IMO quality control is the important issue, not restriction, which if it results (and it will, if people have used them to quit, or even smoke less its a good thing IMO, not like smoking is a good thing) in more tobacco smoking, it can hardly be THAT much worse than tobacco smoking.
Apparently it's far better and safer for you, although having said that it really is not my argument.
Although the quality control is something that seems to need addressing big time.
It doesn't really seem like this is a problem. It might be if you orer someof the Chinese stuff online.
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From what I've heard of them, vype are one of the reputable companies, rather than the kind of thing you'd expect from a chinese back alley where the as-yet-uncooked stray dogs wouldn't deign to piss.
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IMO quality control is the important issue, not restriction, which if it results (and it will, if people have used them to quit, or even smoke less its a good thing IMO, not like smoking is a good thing) in more tobacco smoking, it can hardly be THAT much worse than tobacco smoking.
Although the quality control is something that seems to need addressing big time. I just got a letter recently, presumably followed up from card transactions (kinda gives me the creeps, though admittedly that tobacco firms are allowed access to that sort of data, there's no other way it could have been obtained, it rather sets a low bar on who else could get access to it. Can't see big tobacco firms running illegal credit card scams, since they already have everything in place to rob you blind to your face, they don't need to start illegally using cards, but if a pack of shits like Big Tobacco can, who doubtless aren't making the batteries themselves...)
Got a letter saying something to the effect of 'urgent recall, check serial numbers because theres a chance XYZ could blow your fucking head off'. Glad they did too, because I've a spare battery, so I can put one of them on charge and use the other, and turn out one of them is, it seems, trouble waiting to happen (made by Vype, or for them, if anyone else has batteries made by/for them.)
I would guess that you've gone through a payment platform that you've used for another purchase, and the payment platform has your name and address information already. They are limited in terms of how they can store and use card data, and your address isn't part of your card data anyway. They would need to go to the card issuer (your bank) and say "hey, can you give us the home address for card number 4239 4444 1234 7895?". And that aint gonna happen.
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No, just a debit card purchase in a local corner shop. Was addressed to me by name, not just address, and it can't have been using paypal etc. for e-liquid, because I never have, I mix it from nicotine, propylene glycol and flavouring, because commercial liquids are almost invariably a mixture of propylene glycol and glycerine for the 'filler' part of the liquid, and when glycerine is dehydrated, it eliminates to give an alpha,beta-unsaturated aldehyde, known as acrolein, in small amounts its what gives burning fat that peculiar musty, acrid as hell, choking and noxious eyewatering stink.
In larger amounts than traces, it could well be thought of as the half-way stepping stone between riot-dispersal teargases, and an actual chemical weapon intended for killing the enemy, since its both a potent and effective lachrymatory agent, and highly toxic. I've encountered it in the pure state, prepared some as a kid, using some sodium bisulfate, from a cheap kid's chemistry set, after roasting it with a gas torch to produce the anhydrous salt, getting some glycerine from the local pharmacy, mixing the two and again, heating the mixture as a runny semi-paste, until acrolein distilled over.
Its obnoxious stuff to put it mildly, and 'tear gas' doesn't really do justice to what it does to you if you catch a whiff (bearing in mind I'd never do such a thing NOW, but back then, and bearing in mind that it was only a small amount remaining, less than a full test tube, it went down the kitchen sink, chased with a lot of water immediately after. Unfortunately for me, and anyone else that cared to come anywhere near the vicinity, what had I done? only stupidly turned the tap the wrong way, flushing it with HOT water instead of cold, vaporising a bunch of it, causing it to belch back up from the pipes like some sort of satanic followed-through food poisoning-induced post-vindaloo cheap curry battery acid shart mixed with military-strength pepper CS 'gas' spray and dispersed by means of a gout of flaming napalm. Right in the face, as a cloud of horrible, choking fumes that were it to be compared to Hitler, the world's most orthodox jew to ever draw breath would take offense at. On behalf of Hitler, for the gravest of slander. Only without any of the charm, and to which no speech would ever see a single attendee from among the most ardent arch-nazis of the third reich. Sent me staggering,half-blinded by the teargas-on-steroids effect.
I've never forgotten that one, even as a pre-teen that encounter is memorable to this day, and I'd know that atrocious caustic styx-besharten reek and choking effects anywhere. And I already know how to make it, from glycerine in particular.
And it strikes me as no coincidence that such a known potential reaction, seems to take place with batteries of the higher power ranges when used at the upper end of their output range and with little left in the tank, so as leaving less there, to presumably be dehydrated more readily, and the result being a foul, caustic, choking, lachrymatory and quite vomit-worthy inhalation of fumes nasty enough to make tobacco look like a good thing. And which ONLY happens where there is glycerine present, not with propylene glycol as the sole base for the liquid. And which I've already met in the pure state, and won't be forgetting any time soon.
And as a result, I make my own, my old man does and he has the nicotine and PG to spare. Convinced him to switch to PG alone too, given the results are identical in terms of satisfactory effect in the positive sense, yet devoid of any resemblance to something vomited up from hell's own stagnant sewer. So they can't have got me from paying for e-liquid, never have from them, don't need to and wouldn't use off the shelf ones anyway, given the whole wanting to AVOID clouds of carcinogenic poison fumes, and that both the chemistry, via dehydration of glycerine is known, and that I can personally say, when done deliberately, it works. Bisulfate isn't vital, it just aids the process; and also, that as a result of said process, I don't think I could mistake anything else resulting from a rotting abortion spewed from the carcass of a decaying hellspawn as a result of increasing gas pressure from the feasting of a plethora of devil-corpse-eating gut flora and/or the rotting remains of the NT rape-sprog glycerine had after being forcibly fucked via the eyesockets by whoever it is currently holds the position of supreme twat of the male gender at AutSqueaks HQ once dumped into the toilet and due to the associated trauma that would come from the union of anything living and consisting of multiple cells and a supporter of autism squeaks :P
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It's about time they eased the rules on fags, I mean look what they did to Alan Turing. ::)
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They did. Once they sterilized them, now they just get sent to work for autism speaks.
Which, come to think of it may as well for practical purposes be one and the same thing.
Too bad they don't provide the cyanide when the buggers sign their pacts (if the, for once, deliberate *ew*..implication..flies over anyone's heads, think who else people might be said to sign one with, specifically with the emphasis on the word 'pact', if you see what I mean...
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No, just a debit card purchase in a local corner shop. Was addressed to me by name, not just address, and it can't have been using paypal etc. for e-liquid, because I never have, I mix it from nicotine, propylene glycol and flavouring, because commercial liquids are almost invariably a mixture of propylene glycol and glycerine for the 'filler' part of the liquid, and when glycerine is dehydrated, it eliminates to give an alpha,beta-unsaturated aldehyde, known as acrolein, in small amounts its what gives burning fat that peculiar musty, acrid as hell, choking and noxious eyewatering stink.
Pick a different e-cigarette shop? If you live in the UK no doubt there are loads of them. Might be worth it, even if it's further away.
My mum does e-cigs. Says they're alright. I vaped once, essentially to show support.
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I mean, off the shelf liquids as a whole, I don't frequent anywhere specific for it, or rather, I didn't when I decided to go with blending nicotine/propylene glycol with commercial flavourings.
I don't think I've ever had a commercial ready to use straight out of the bottle off the shelf variety that DIDN'T give off nasty choking acrolein fumes. And the battery in question wasn't from a dedicated shop, just a corner shop, got it because I've had one of the same batteries before, a high-capacity one that lasts a good long time from a full charge and that I could say has never failed me, if it weren't somewhere in the middle of last night. When it promptly went and did.
Annoying thing too, is its one of those lithium ion polymer batteries, so I can't even dunk it under a protective bowl full of petrol and fillet it to reclaim some useful lithium metal foil. (I do have ready access to lithium metal, sodium, potassium, or with much expense, rubidium or caesium, but for one certain specific chemical process, or rather, a variation in the methodology of a known reaction, that although it lengthens the time taken to generate the active reagent from about as quick as the lithium can be added to a couple of hours, is actually far less effort, with no need to plan ahead and buy some dry ice, no fucking about with taking care with pressure, and IMO improved safety for anyone who was not accustomed to performing the reaction and had to choose between the cryogen-free, nasty, corrosive, caustic solvent-free way that takes a bit longer, and more drying agent and the older more well known way of doing it that requires one to cool things way, way down, with dry ice/acetone baths, if one is going to not to have to fuck about slaving all day to prepare the solvent alone (the reaction is fast, preparing the medium in which to perform it, is not, done the typical way), or to make what would be a very 'watched' sort of purchase indeed, if at all one could do so. Or the really uneconomical middle ground of using a whole load of CO2 fire extinguishers, inverted and vented through a lot of fine cloth or other fine, thermally poorly conductive weave of a similar structural nature then the resultant CO2 'snow' stuffed in something not sealed in a way it would have to rupture due to pressure overtaking physical tolerances and compacted with blunt force into a block (otherwise it evaporates and disappears too quickly), or else really REALLY buggering about with sequential levels of g using solvent/water ice/salts or acids or bases depending on which stage you are at in the zones of coolant mixtures.)
And then, for the dry ice-free trick method, battery grade Li actually performs better than reagent grade, from experience and opinion, not as fast IF the solvent is there, on hand to do it neat in the cryogenic liquefied corrosive gas, then its minutes, but if not, and in the particular case of this specific medium, it is rather 'hot' to attempt to get hold if in ready-compressed cylinders which can simply be inverted to dispense it as a liquid, but rather, one can employ the lithium cut up really finely as a suspension in ether, and what one would otherwise spend all day liquefying without dry ice or a tank, and in the case of a tank, most who are not in 'officialdom' of some form are have-nots, not haves, by bubbling through a suspension of really finely diced up lithium under inert atmosphere, argon being preferable due to its weight, compared to helium, helping to form a protective pad over the solvent system being denser than air, whereas helium would float away, and a continual purge has to be used, the same otherwise nasty cryogenic liquefied corrosive gas, in gaseous form after passing it through a column packed with quicklime, or two or three to desiccate it, until the reagent is formed and one need only add whatever one is to reduce with it plus a proton donor such as an alcohol, anhydrous isopropyl alcohol for example and its done, a nice handy color change showing when the reducing agent is spent and reaction done, ready for workup, purification etc. etc., no buggering about with something that can eat flesh off bones and leave whatever is left a hideous mass of scar tissue, just venting the gas into say, concentrated citric acid to neutralize both its chemical properties and the foul smell before it can get anywhere anyone else can smell it and call the authorities for whatever paranoid chemophobic reason your average do-gooder might have in mind (the person doing the reaction and any assistant/s would be wearing gas masks, goggles, long elbow-length under-gloves at least, along with heavy duty rubberized gloves to protect themselves, inhalation NOT recommended, as such might suggest, so its not the chemist who might smell any downwind. Not hideously toxic as such, just not something one wants in concentration in the face, not a systemic poison, but corrosive and general inhalation hazard up close and personal, easily mitigated when performing the reduction with the gas in ethereal Li suspension technique by use of acid filled scrubber tanks)
The thin, high surface area of the foil actually works better than reagent grade of larger size.
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It's about time they eased the rules on fags, I mean look what they did to Alan Turing. ::)
I got that one.
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I'm not a fan of cigarettes or e-cigarettes. Didn't like e-cigarettes from the first time I saw someone using one. Just an irrational like/dislike on my part.
I have a dear friend who tried them. She's now so horribly hooked on them that she's skin and bones. No appetite, just cigarettes.
An aside: Funny no to cigarettes and e-cigarettes, but I love the aroma of a pipe or cigar.
Second aside: I'm very weird in that I tried to start smoking in college and in my late 20's. Never even finished a pack. Just no craving for them. The only time I craved them was when I was pregnant with The PR and it wasn't a strong craving. Since I was on bedrest for most of the pregnancy, PA wouldn't buy me any. He did buy me shrimp though, which was my other craving.
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I' m the same regarding cigarettes. I used to smoke (originally I started at 9, pinching them off my mom, and for some unfathomable reason continuing to smoke the damnable things irrespective of getting little from it but a short body rush, then rollups as they were both cheaper and rolling tobacco tastes/tasted better to me than ready made coffin nails do. But the tobacco I do still smoke, its cigars. Have smoked a pipe too at times.)
I know, its a bit 'odd' or at least unusual for someone in their mid to late teens to smoke a pipe, I especially liked, and still do, a nice juicy havana cigar though, the kind that'll last you half an hour to an hour, and leave your lips tingling.
Although these days if I'm going to smoke anything, I prefer to make sure there is a point to it and that its better for you than tobacco. I prefer the green and aromatic stuff. Tastier, and at least it'll DO something worth having, and have a lovely fragrance, not just make a teenager feel dizzy or lightheaded and smell bad.
And TRIED to start smoking? you are a contrary sod QV.
As for e-fags, the smells can vary a lot, depends on what the flavouring is. I've tasted from nice (such as some bubblegum ones, some lemon and lime varieties) to truly foul, the sort of thing I not only wouldn't use myself, but I'd not be in the same room as my old man using it (it kept getting sent him free for some reason, theres a load of it, a tobacco one, and a really nasty one at that), stank like shite and tasted like a dog had shit in a microwave oven and dumped the output load of a very large capacity marx generator after bypassing any step-down transformer straight through it. Second thought, wrap said dog muck in metal foil and then flash-nuke it :P )
It just piled up, free bottle after free bottle, because neither of us would touch the stuff. Absolutely vile, and to compound the overall shite nature of it, it was at least partially glycerine based, and I don't want glycerine in my e-liquid because of the elimination reaction forming acrolein. There are places I'd want tear-gas from hell to be, and places I really wouldn't want teargas from hell to be. And the last place I want it to be is coming out of my vape directly into my airways. Carcinogenic, caustic acrid burning rancid fat-stinking hell-spawned tear gas. Just what I want to take a hit of straight from the source.
And if MPs have relaxed the rules on e-fags, does that mean that they are now allowed to speak their shit directly to twitter?
Or as, for once in his limp-dicked nancy boy excuse for a life, Cameron managed to put it succinctly 'too many tweets make a twat'. For the one and probably only time since the day he befouled the air by drawing breath belonging to the rest of us.
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I have a dear friend who tried them. She's now so horribly hooked on them that she's skin and bones. No appetite, just cigarettes.
Even when I was quite serious about my drinking, I always wanted it done so that I was fed and watered. Look after number one is my motto.
An aside: Funny no to cigarettes and e-cigarettes, but I love the aroma of a pipe or cigar.
He did buy me shrimp though, which was my other craving.
Good, good.
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I' m the same regarding cigarettes. I used to smoke (originally I started at 9, pinching them off my mom, and for some unfathomable reason continuing to smoke the damnable things irrespective of getting little from it but a short body rush, then rollups as they were both cheaper and rolling tobacco tastes/tasted better to me than ready made coffin nails do. But the tobacco I do still smoke, its cigars. Have smoked a pipe too at times.)
I've never actually done real smoking. I never would - it really isn't my thing. E-cigarettes are as far as I'll go. I enjoyed those, I must admit. Perhaps after we leave the EU the tax take on cigarettes will be a bit more reasonable - the cost of them is insane. We're talking £10.50 for a pack of 20. I know that in Australia it's even worse - £25 for a pack of 20 or something equally out-there.
I was told, particularly in Darwin, that there is a problem with cigarettes from Indonesia. Is that still the case?
I know, its a bit 'odd' or at least unusual for someone in their mid to late teens to smoke a pipe, I especially liked, and still do, a nice juicy havana cigar though, the kind that'll last you half an hour to an hour, and leave your lips tingling.
What's the flavour like? I can't imagine me doing cigars, even for a laugh. It's not me.
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The first time I saw someone with a Juul I thought they were sucking on a flash drive :autism:
(https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2017/10/27/104801985-20170622ArturoTorresJUUL0001_StarterKit_REV.530x298.jpg?v=1509104633)
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^ :lol1:
I tried smoking cigarettes as a teenager. Thought it tasted terrible.
The first time I saw someone having an e-cigarette was on a train a couple of years ago. It was at a distance so I thought they were smoking an actual cigarette. No one near him said anything, so for sure I wasn't going to.
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There's minimal regulation of e-cigarettes there.
Really, there doesn't need to be much. As long as it's safe, people should be allowed to have at it. If it's not specifically harmful and the Government doesn't need the money, leave it alone.