INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: WolFish on February 16, 2016, 09:38:51 AM
-
I ran marathons - it took the edge off the ADHD and any associated symptoms. Swimming helped at one point when I didn't have any. Caffeine in huge doses made me functional - that's how I got through the PhD program. I took those tablets they used to sell on the highway and dissolved the candy into my sodas. Also took ginseng but it never seems to have much of an effect.
Before the marathons and the caffeine I was a horror of a person to be around. Nothing in my environment could be moved or changed. Nothing in my routine could differ. My food was always the same, my laundry was all done at the cleaners, and I had my desk meticulously arranged. When I tried to make friends I realized they didn't like that. When I let go of routine I still couldn't make friends and then I couldn't get the routines back - that's when the train wreck started.
When I was in grad school my quack of a therapist sent me to a psychiatrist, telling me that I was clinically depressed. After listening to me awhile the psychiatrist agreed that I was not depressed. He did recommend Rescue Remedy because there was a social situation that was stressing me out - a more senior student was put in the role of supervisor in my practicum and he decided that meant remodeling the office and reassigning the desks. When we came in he had moved everything, including our belongings. He could not understand why this was not OK. I am never the alpha in such situations. He was a short guy with "short man syndrome" and I was in my new age zen meditation era. I tried to sic the real supervisor on him but he wasn't an alpha either so he said, well, you will have to work it out. Life was quite stressful until the practicum ended, but the rescue remedy worked great.
I did try Wellbutrin when I was first getting off the 1200+ mg of caffeine I was taking daily. Massive headache and spending spree and we went right to trials of stimulants after that.
-
Before meds I drifted and floundered and wasted time and lost time (not in a fugue-state
sense, more like time leaked away from me like air out of a tire). It took me so long to do things,
I had trouble staying on task over time, and as much as this frustrated my parents, I couldn't explain
why I had trouble in school. I could and did make excellent grades at times, but I was, and still am,
a "slow learner" in new situations. At my current job it used to take me most of an hour to dish up 90
servings of fruit cup for Sunday dinner. An hour. I can't even remember what that felt like anymore.
The Strattera keeps me on task over time, so that I can get things done much faster, consistently,
and it also takes the edge off my OCD anxiety, seems to stop the obsessive loops of fear. Overall,
I am a better version of myself when I'm on it, "more tightly wrapped," as I like to put it. :apondering:
-
Beyond the morning cup of coffee before school (even in grammar school), there wasn't anything.
Thankfully my body and mind are slowing down and I'm finding more peace, tranquility, sensibility, patience, etc. than I ever had before. I hope to never go back.
-
Nothing now.
Last one on the list was Ativan, and although it did dull my senses enough where I could function better, longer in situations...it also seemed to trigger episodes of depression.
Back when I had friends...I was the one sitting in the corner trying to become comfortably numb enough to deal with them or planning my escape. I finally ditched the friends. Most people like going out to eat, movies, loud bars, dances...I like things that please my senses not irritate them, nice scenery, being outdoors, museums, car shows, yard sales...other woman like going out to eat, talking about how people dress, their kids, their hair, or gossip...I relate better to their husbands most of the time.
Never really heard the term "sensory overload" until I hit 30...but that about fits what I've dealt with my entire life. The world moves too fast, it's too bright, and it needs a mute button, and I find that people are too fixated on drama and things that really don't matter to me 90% of the time.
-
Once I finally got old enough to manage my own medical affairs, discovering NMDA antagonists, adrenergic suppressants, and cannabinoids has been a sanity-saver.
I found that things like dissociatives, ket, dextromethorphan etc. in LOW doses supressess what I experience as a kind of internal 'static chatter' that gets in the way of proper sensory processing.
But the psychotropic effects, for that use, are unwanted, I wish I could get my doc to put me on a daily dose of memantine, I've trialled memantine before and it was a godsend, but getting it on the NHS has been proving impossibly difficult. :/ Memantine turned down the internal howling white noise, without the cognitivively disruptive effecs of less suitable NMDA antagonists.
-
I tackled OCD the best I could, and sometimes not at all. I lost a lot of time. I was worried a lot of the time.
-
I tackled OCD the best I could, and sometimes not at all. I lost a lot of time. I was worried a lot of the time.
OCD is a fucking bitch! :hug:
-
Had a lot of headaches
-
Got distracted even more than I do now and slept worse. I currently only take ADD meds which help a lot with staying on task and with sleep. The anxiety meds I stopped as they made me a bit zombieish
-
...attended kindergarten and first grade.
Forget if meds came before or after being expelled from the latter.
-
...attended kindergarten and first grade.
Forget if meds came before or after being expelled from the latter.
How do you get expelled from first grade?
-
I daydreamed a lot. I got into trouble too, in school for not handing in homework and taking too long in the classroom to start tasks. My psychiatrist read my school reports and found a lot of evidence of ADHD.
When I was older I was accused of being on drugs at work. I had two car crashes that were due to my inattention.
-
I daydreamed a lot. I got into trouble too, in school for not handing in homework and taking too long in the classroom to start tasks. My psychiatrist read my school reports and found a lot of evidence of ADHD.
When I was older I was accused of being on drugs at work. I had two car crashes that were due to my inattention.
You sound a lot like me. I'm afraid to drive because I don't trust my processing speed. :tinfoil:
-
That's why I only got my automatic licence. I had tried manual but I had difficulties driving and keeping attention on what was going on around me.
Automatic is much easier.
This didn't stop me from getting my forklift and front end loader tickets because they were automatic too!
-
That's why I only got my automatic licence. I had tried manual but I had difficulties driving and keeping attention on what was going on around me.
Automatic is much easier.
This didn't stop me from getting my forklift and front end loader tickets because they were automatic too!
That's so badass! I sometimes think I'd like to be a forklift operator. :green:
-
Um, there's no 'before' and 'after' with me concerning meds. No meds for this chap. Never ever.
Oh, I'm not being judgemental towards others here.. 'they're' just not my cup of tea.
-
Let's hope you can keep avoiding them, Lutra. :)
-
Lutra, soon you may have been on medication way longer than you ever knew.
In Germany they are treating a few people with ADHD with proper weed, with THC, people who do not react on Ritalin anymore. CBD, the stuff without THC is tested on how beneficial it is for people on the spectrum.
-
Treating a disease which people don't know enough about, with a drug that people don't know enough about seems insane to me.
-
Disease?
-
Disease?
Communicable disease hopefully. :thumbup:
*sneezes*
IMO...Weed has been around a lot longer than Ritalin, and I don't see any reports of liver failure from it. Whatever works.
-
Concerning 'head-meds' I'm pretty sure I'll manage without them.. but thank you. :)
Um, concerning me using mari-juanos.. I'll only smoke a couple of small spliffs in the evening. Say, between 20h30 and 22h30 (1/12 part of a day). My own grown, on my balcony/outside, a pure natural herbie. Kinda like I do with my thyme, parsley, chives, rosemary, etc... nil bullshit.. in proper organic soil.
I use it to help me fall asleep and during the day I don't smoke the stuff at all. Suit self if wish to view me as a pothead but then you're only 1/12 part right, I say.
And yes, I've read/heard (t'was a topic on a late night talk show yestereve/coincidentally) and the weedoil with low levels of THC and higher levels of CBD does seem to help quite a few people. From kids with serious epileptic troubles to juveniles with ADHD dx-es. Couple of handfulls on a Dutch Auti-forum say it's helpful for them as well.
Me? Not an ADHD-er, see no use for it myself since yeah..
-
The CBD oil works on anxiety and "onrust"/distress. Works like an anti-psychotic but on a different system in the brain, and with less side-effects. Some insurance companies now cover it.
Altrecht is doing a double blind study now to see how effective it is as medication next to therapy for anxiety problems.
Think a lot of people do self-medicate. And it is good to see that mental health and physical health research now take some of that self-medication serious.
And the self-medication that is taken serious, is cannabis, not alcohol.
-
And yes, I've read/heard (t'was a topic on a late night talk show yestereve/coincidentally) and the weedoil with low levels of THC and higher levels of CBD does seem to help quite a few people. From kids with serious epileptic troubles to juveniles with ADHD dx-es.
Which talkshow?
-
I used to smoke a bit of pot in the evenings around age 20 and around age 40. Did me a lot of good. Slept better. Felt my muscles relax. Those are most of the times under too much tension. I did not like the effect of tobacco mixed with it though. (Dirty Dutch habit.) Felt the two things conflict in my body. So I stopped.
-
'Jinek' was the talkshow and I secretly love her. :smileyface: Maybe, if wished, you could view it on 'uitzending gemist'. T'was interesting.. the weedoil topic.
-
'Jinek' was the talkshow and I secretly love her. :smileyface: Maybe, if wished, you could view it on 'uitzending gemist'. T'was interesting.. the weedoil topic.
Shrink put both my kids on weedoil. And I am taking a drop of it too, now and then.
It is so common now that even the firm Jacob Hooy produces it. You can buy it at De Tuinen. Made from organic grown hemp, from Groningen.
-
Jinek, she is stunning. But I still don't know what to think of her. Can imagine lots of people having a crush on her, she is both beautiful and powerful.
-
I love her feistiness quite a bit.. and tjah, she quite pleasing 'on the eye' too. Well, I'm not leaving ground levels here, taken off, elevating or sutin'.. No chance she and I.. (blahiah)
*needs some 'meds' to cool down now* ("
-
Just watched it. Thanks.
-
I used to smoke a bit of pot in the evenings around age 20 and around age 40. Did me a lot of good. Slept better. Felt my muscles relax. Those are most of the times under too much tension. I did not like the effect of tobacco mixed with it though. (Dirty Dutch habit.) Felt the two things conflict in my body. So I stopped.
I didn't touch it really since high school, then about 3 winters ago my fibro kicked in so bad I was ready to scream. Dr's offer painkillers but I refuse because personally I don't want to ride that train, but I was taking too many ibuprofen for my comfort level and they where killing my stomach...someone slipped me some weed and said "see if it helps". Whether it actually kills the pain or whether you just don't care anymore that you hurt I don't know. Don't care and really don't give a damn, it obviously did something for me.
I might smoke a little once or twice a month usually when I overdo things.
Massive stoner alert here, hide your chips. :yawn:
-
...attended kindergarten and first grade.
Forget if meds came before or after being expelled from the latter.
How do you get expelled from first grade?
Selling meth during nap time.
Well, I assume that'd do it. I was, to my knowledge, doing things like really, really going off on the bullies I was already attracting like a fucking magnet. It was a conservative Christian school, unequipped to handle the kind of behavioral issues I had at the time. I was an angry, angry kid (my childhood was fucking terrible basically from the get-go).
-
...attended kindergarten and first grade.
Forget if meds came before or after being expelled from the latter.
How do you get expelled from first grade?
Selling meth during nap time.
Well, I assume that'd do it. I was, to my knowledge, doing things like really, really going off on the bullies I was already attracting like a fucking magnet. It was a conservative Christian school, unequipped to handle the kind of behavioral issues I had at the time. I was an angry, angry kid (my childhood was fucking terrible basically from the get-go).
the nuns where i went to school probably would have loved to expel me but i am pretty sure they were afraid of my mother. in school i could not pay attention and got called out for daydreaming but it was frustrating for them because if they repeated the question i could answer it with no problem.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
I just assumed you're infectious. :zoinks:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
Agreed. So much so that when people come across a legitimate case of it, they don't get the symptoms or the response to meds. People are always surprised that I sleep better when I have had the afternoon dose. They want to know doesn't it keep me awake? that's what it would do it I didn't need it, which is likely the case for many who get it prescribed.
Growing up I was always surprised that people said things like tea and pepsi kept them awake or even bouncing off the walls. I always had a cup of the blackest tea I could make before bed.
-
I don't take meds
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
Agreed. So much so that when people come across a legitimate case of it, they don't get the symptoms or the response to meds. People are always surprised that I sleep better when I have had the afternoon dose. They want to know doesn't it keep me awake? that's what it would do it I didn't need it, which is likely the case for many who get it prescribed.
Growing up I was always surprised that people said things like tea and pepsi kept them awake or even bouncing off the walls. I always had a cup of the blackest tea I could make before bed.
I can drink Coke, tea or coffee before bed and it has no effect.
-
Yeah, plenty of good meds in coffee and tea. Tannins, theanine, caffeine.
Apparently you can get just the tannins and theanine if you brew for 2 minutes, throw out that liquid, and brew again. Those are supposed to be calming.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
I just assumed you're infectious. :zoinks:
I blame you
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
Agreed. So much so that when people come across a legitimate case of it, they don't get the symptoms or the response to meds. People are always surprised that I sleep better when I have had the afternoon dose. They want to know doesn't it keep me awake? that's what it would do it I didn't need it, which is likely the case for many who get it prescribed.
Growing up I was always surprised that people said things like tea and pepsi kept them awake or even bouncing off the walls. I always had a cup of the blackest tea I could make before bed.
Everyone's different. Yeah caffeine doesn't really keep me awake either. I can just sleep all day and all night if I want to haha.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
Agreed. So much so that when people come across a legitimate case of it, they don't get the symptoms or the response to meds. People are always surprised that I sleep better when I have had the afternoon dose. They want to know doesn't it keep me awake? that's what it would do it I didn't need it, which is likely the case for many who get it prescribed.
Growing up I was always surprised that people said things like tea and pepsi kept them awake or even bouncing off the walls. I always had a cup of the blackest tea I could make before bed.
I can drink Coke, tea or coffee before bed and it has no effect.
Caffeine can wreak havoc on my anxiety if it's already amped.
-
I don't take meds
I wish I didn't have to rely on them.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
I just assumed you're infectious. :zoinks:
I blame you
That's what they all say. :zoinks:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
-
Before I had my overload circuit-breaker installation (I.e meds), when I was of the age where parents looked after medical/dr visits, I dipped into my outside-of-box-oddball-autie-talent pool, so to speak, to do what comes naturally, I.e get chemhacking.
Started with the really easy entry-level kinds of cooking projects those new to the art typically try out first, decyclization of Y-butyrolactone with caustic potash to give GHB, did that by the pound using the stove-top and a salted water bath to keep it hot and saponify that lactone, just bung everything, GBL, an alkali metal, or alkaline earth metal hydroxide base, a mixture of mostly MeOH (not needed strictly, but using mostly methanol allows for a quicker yield of product by virtue of allowing for much less water needing to be boiled off)
Hold at reflux for about a half to 3/4 hour, then strip off the methanol/water mixture, once evaporated down to a hypersaline brine-like liquid, pour onto foil-lined baking trays, and leave in the oven with the door wedged open and the flame at its lowest, to drive off the last of the liquid (IMPORTANT! make sure the methanol is evaporated off, before the drying out in the oven, to avoid a fire.)
Then all that needs be done, is to take up the foil and crunch up the chunky crystals of GHB.
Or if no Y-butyrolactone, 1,4-butanediol, or tetrahydrofuran were on the lab shelves, then maybe chloral hydrate from alcohol, direct photocatalyzed halogenation of ethanol under UV irradiation using chlorine gas. Chlorbutol (otherwise known as chlorobutanol) was another really quick, simple, easy sedative, similar to chloral, made by condensing the enolate of acetone, prepared by deprotonating same w/strong base, with chloroform, itself prepared by oxidizing acetone using the haloform rxn, generating the transient-lived dichlorocarbene using hypochlorite/group I metal hydroxide base.
Then one takes the freshly prepared chloroform, and adds it to the acetone enol and base, hold at reflux for a while, using an efficient condenser.
The chlorbutol crystallizes as fine acicular needles which sublime before melting, and possess a very distinctive camphor-like, 'medicinal, antiseptic' type scent. Long, long long duration of action, and it, like chloral hydrate, can tend to repeat on one, with minty camphorish astringent kind of taste if one belches after taking the drug.
What else...ether, that was a fun beginner's synth for both an extremely versatile, useful solvent, and either inhaled or consumed orally it packs a kick that needs experiencing to be believed. Smells lovely too. Synth route I use for EtOEt being to slowly, dropwise addition of anhydrous, or very, very dry ethyl alcohol into hot, concentrated sulfuric acid, distilling the ether off as it forms, although one must maintain the reaction below 150 deg. C lest one ends up merely dehydrating the alcohol to ethylene gas.
Another DIY-ed before-meds solution to insomnia, and fatigue, is tea, brewed from the fly agaric mushroom, Amanita muscaria, that most famous and easily recognized fungus of the red cap covered in warty white fragments of the velum universale, and having white gills, white stalk possessed of a membranous, flaccid ring, and volva reduced to an enlarged, somewhat rough and warty basal bulb, grows exclusively with its mycorrhizal partner trees, silver birch being by far the most common, but it also grows with pine trees at times, little gnome sitting on the top holding a wee 'lil fishing rod, swearing like a sailor and blaspheming the air blue in fury at having his little wee tiny gnomehome abruptly yoinked out of the ground, dropped into the collecting baskets, then thrown in the oven to be dried crispy :D
Used, and still do make good use of fly agaric as a hypnotic, sedative, endurance-booster, anti-anxiogenic, and to top off the many uses this wonderful fungus has, a goodly spoonful of the dried, powdered caps works some real magic on the flavoursomeness if thrown into a pot of cooking beef chilli or stew, or sprinkled over a nice big and juicy slab of steak.
It is, however, poisonous, unless prepared correctly, but the mode of preparation is quite simple, consisting of being cleaned, the caps put on foil lined baking trays, and curing with a long, low heat with the oven door slightly ajar, This heat-cure allows for the decarboxylation of a neurotoxin present in A.muscaria called ibotenic acid to the psychoactive muscimol. When used as a cooking spice though, the traces of ibotenic acid left behind act as an agonist of glutamate receptors on the tongue which are responsible for producing the taste known as umami, or savouryness. Brings out the meaty, salty type flavours of the piece of meat like a sort of nature-spawned MSG. Can either drive a man berserkirgang, act as a dissociative psychedelic of a unique stripe (acts as an orthosteric agonist at GABAa receptors, I.e binding at the same site that GABA itself does, unlike say, barbs, benzos and Z-drugs which bind an allosteric site on the GABAa receptor complex distinct from GABA, the native neurotransmitter)
Or turn a simply good, tasty steak to something fucking scrumptious, delish enough to kneecap anybody caught looking hungrily at one's plate :P
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
-
Before I had meds I did not sleep. I would go to bed at 11pm and get up at 2am. I didn't have a housekey so I left the front door unlocked. I wandered the streets, or sat in the backyard writing poetry and stories.
Before I had meds I didn't realize I needed them. I was against using them. When I first tried meds I realized that it was not the norm to reheat my dinner several times after cooking it, and finally eat it lukewarm or cold.
Before I had meds things fell into the black hole of my life and were lost forever. Now it's just a wormhole with uncertain results.
-
I realized that it was not the norm to reheat my dinner several times after cooking it, and finally eat it lukewarm or cold.
When life is not too challenging I do reasonably OK. Just reheating water for tea a few times before making the tea. And then hopefully drink it while it still tastes good. Having kids who need breakfast helps with this.
When life gets more challenging, add a few appointments, make a few changes, just ordinary stuff, things get chaotic. Then I have to wash my laundry several times, because I forget to hang the wet washing. And drinking something with kids not at home just will not happen.
Seems to be not only influenced by things from outside me, there also are periods of time that I am more efficient, sometimes really efficient, and times I am a disaster. Not sure what the pattern is.
In disaster times I take my methylphenidate. I do sleep better when I take that. I tend to forget the afternoon dosage though. Worst dosage to forget.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
-
When life gets more challenging, add a few appointments, make a few changes, just ordinary stuff, things get chaotic. Then I have to wash my laundry several times, because I forget to hang the wet washing. And drinking something with kids not at home just will not happen.
Same here. Making dinner for Py nights seems to be an organizing factor, as is doing the grocery shopping. I used to lose clothing to forgetting to hang things up or put them in the dryer. Having to go to a laundromat when the home things are broken (or had kittens behind them) and waiting for me to repair them was only partly helpful.
Seems to be not only influenced by things from outside me, there also are periods of time that I am more efficient, sometimes really efficient, and times I am a disaster. Not sure what the pattern is.
This happens to me too, and I've no idea how. For example somehow my desk got seriously (but not completely) cleared of stuff. Enough to put down both a tea mug and a drinking glass.
In disaster times I take my methylphenidate. I do sleep better when I take that. I tend to forget the afternoon dosage though. Worst dosage to forget.
If I don't take mine ongoing, things don't improve. At this point I am still a train wreck but should be better within the next few months. The afternoon dose for me not only helps with sleep, but makes the next morning better. It's like it helps the morning dose.
I admit that I am not the most productive member of society, but without meds I was losing my jobs. With meds I am able to hold a job and there are some students who are very happy to have been in my classes. My arguments are that there is actual suffering for people who don't get the meds they need, and that had there been a better intervention earlier in my life I might have been a lot more productive. I would not withhold those opportunities from anyone.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
-
But they got to know about diabetes and insulin by giving people insulin.
Antidepressants work for only one form of ADHD (which is not considered a mental illness but a developmental disorder), but anyway, there is this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45574/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45574/)
It's possible - at least in the U.S. to get a prescription for fish oil for milder forms of ADHD.
A trial of Wellbutrin cost me $600 in an impulsive shopping trip. The psychiatrist suggested it because I balked at taking a stimulant. I stopped consuming massive amounts of caffeine and started the Wellbutrin during the week. By Sunday all the money was gone.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
But they are- they're uppers/speed. Thing is, they work great as "legit" medicine, but they also work pretty great as drugs. And can have unfortunate side effects when they're abused.
At least where I work, we actually do try to make sure we're only prescribing stimulants to people who legitly have ADHD, and not just people who want "study drugs," to get skinny, get high from the stimulants themselves, or to sell them.
-
In disaster times I take my methylphenidate. I do sleep better when I take that. I tend to forget the afternoon dosage though. Worst dosage to forget.
If I don't take mine ongoing, things don't improve. At this point I am still a train wreck but should be better within the next few months. The afternoon dose for me not only helps with sleep, but makes the next morning better. It's like it helps the morning dose.
I admit that I am not the most productive member of society, but without meds I was losing my jobs. With meds I am able to hold a job and there are some students who are very happy to have been in my classes. My arguments are that there is actual suffering for people who don't get the meds they need, and that had there been a better intervention earlier in my life I might have been a lot more productive. I would not withhold those opportunities from anyone.
I take them a few weeks, if I don't forget. And when life is back to organised enough to be OK I quit again. I miss the creativity of the chaotic brain when on methylphenidate too long.
Wonder how I will get my new prescription. The doctor prescribing it to me had to stop, reaching a pensioners age in times of economizing. Now my GP should take over. Hope she will be willing to do that.
-
But they got to know about diabetes and insulin by giving people insulin.
Antidepressants work for only one form of ADHD (which is not considered a mental illness but a developmental disorder), but anyway, there is this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45574/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45574/)
It's possible - at least in the U.S. to get a prescription for fish oil for milder forms of ADHD.
A trial of Wellbutrin cost me $600 in an impulsive shopping trip. The psychiatrist suggested it because I balked at taking a stimulant. I stopped consuming massive amounts of caffeine and started the Wellbutrin during the week. By Sunday all the money was gone.
Not every condition is identical though.
May want to have a look at these
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/09/at-last-doubts-about-adhd-go-mainstream.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/adhd-being-different-is-not-an-illness-a6757276.html
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
But they are- they're uppers/speed. Thing is, they work great as "legit" medicine, but they also work pretty great as drugs. And can have unfortunate side effects when they're abused.
Which a lot of meds can, but AFAIK, Ritalin is not a great upper. It can help you focus, it can improve your cognitive abilities, but it isn't a great drug.
At least where I work, we actually do try to make sure we're only prescribing stimulants to people who legitly have ADHD, and not just people who want "study drugs," to get skinny, get high from the stimulants themselves, or to sell them.
You may get skinny by popping Ritalin because you can lose your appetite, but does it really work for that purpose in the long term? And getting high? Jittery, sure, in higher doses, when all kinds of bad things can happen, but again AFAIK it's rather difficult to get high with Ritalin.
-
You may get skinny by popping Ritalin because you can lose your appetite, but does it really work for that purpose in the long term? And getting high? Jittery, sure, in higher doses, when all kinds of bad things can happen, but again AFAIK it's rather difficult to get high with Ritalin.
Jittery and with facial spasms. Maybe with drooling. Very alluring. Oh, and staying awake while drooling and having facial spasms.
(Sat the night through with a teen, not my own, who had taken hands full of different meds, the Ritalin was the only thing taken in a dosage that it could become a problem. There were no fun side-effects.)
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
But they are- they're uppers/speed. Thing is, they work great as "legit" medicine, but they also work pretty great as drugs. And can have unfortunate side effects when they're abused.
Which a lot of meds can, but AFAIK, Ritalin is not a great upper. It can help you focus, it can improve your cognitive abilities, but it isn't a great drug.
At least where I work, we actually do try to make sure we're only prescribing stimulants to people who legitly have ADHD, and not just people who want "study drugs," to get skinny, get high from the stimulants themselves, or to sell them.
You may get skinny by popping Ritalin because you can lose your appetite, but does it really work for that purpose in the long term? And getting high? Jittery, sure, in higher doses, when all kinds of bad things can happen, but again AFAIK it's rather difficult to get high with Ritalin.
You lost the pill-popping mentality plot at the phrase "in the long term." :P
Also, we more get people wanting adderall, here.
-
In disaster times I take my methylphenidate. I do sleep better when I take that. I tend to forget the afternoon dosage though. Worst dosage to forget.
If I don't take mine ongoing, things don't improve. At this point I am still a train wreck but should be better within the next few months. The afternoon dose for me not only helps with sleep, but makes the next morning better. It's like it helps the morning dose.
I admit that I am not the most productive member of society, but without meds I was losing my jobs. With meds I am able to hold a job and there are some students who are very happy to have been in my classes. My arguments are that there is actual suffering for people who don't get the meds they need, and that had there been a better intervention earlier in my life I might have been a lot more productive. I would not withhold those opportunities from anyone.
I take them a few weeks, if I don't forget. And when life is back to organised enough to be OK I quit again. I miss the creativity of the chaotic brain when on methylphenidate too long.
Wonder how I will get my new prescription. The doctor prescribing it to me had to stop, reaching a pensioners age in times of economizing. Now my GP should take over. Hope she will be willing to do that.
Oh! Of course I thought I was the only one. It is a true sadness of mine that society cannot accommodate my ADHD (and dyslexia). It is pretty awful to not have my chaotic brain, and I admit it is easier with less exacerbation of my dyslexia. I cannot find a happy medium. I used to leave mine off on weekends starting with Friday nights, and Saturday morning I would wake up, stare out my window and enjoy the wash of thoughts and ideas. In the ideal society there would be someone from my village standing there listening and recording everything.
But without the meds most of those thoughts get lost. With, I save maybe one to two percent and they make stories like the ones I write for nano or post here.
I hope you get your meds. Life is hell without them.
-
I've thought a lot about the changing faces and labels of "disorders," and about the claim from
some quarters that ADHD is an invented condition. Maybe in 10 years it'll be called something
else entirely. :dunno: I hope I can still get my meds, or find something OTC that does the same
things for me that the meds do. I'm definitely happier, more productive, less anxious on my
medication. My meds help me to get out of my own way.
-
I've thought a lot about the changing faces and labels of "disorders," and about the claim from
some quarters that ADHD is an invented condition. Maybe in 10 years it'll be called something
else entirely. :dunno: I hope I can still get my meds, or find something OTC that does the same
things for me that the meds do. I'm definitely happier, more productive, less anxious on my
medication. My meds help me to get out of my own way.
Did you get the DX MBD as a youngster?
-
We are making a mistake.
These are discourse errors; the facts are important. We need to make a distinction between legal and illegal drugs and legal and illegal drug use, because this is where society makes the distinction and often puts legitimate drug users into the latter category. When we say drugs we have to make the distinction.
So to say that prescription Ritalin (methylphenidate, not an amphetamine) or Adderal (synthesized amphetamine) is "drugs" like uppers/speed is an error. Uppers and speed refer to illegally used or illegal drugs. If you get these on the street you could be buying any of a number of drugs including amphetamines, methylphenidate or ephedrine.
The relatively new idea that drugs taken when natural remedies would suffice has negative connotations, also ascribed to people who use medication at the suggestion of their doctors, most of whom have been trained to alleviate suffering but not in natural alternatives to drugs. This too is an error. In Florida I had the benefit of having a doctor trained in both (I searched until I found one), and so for example was able to avoid prescription medications for a bad sinus infection.
An interesting note: MRSA is one of the results of abuse of antibiotics. No stigma there though, I think because antibiotics don't result in a "high."
Caffeine is legal, and so is alcohol. But abuse of these two substances outstrips the abuse of most other single substances in the U.S.A. But because they are legal, there is less stigma. Herbal supplements are legal, and until people start becoming ill or dying from them, no one tracks the incidence of abuse.
Some of the substances on this hit list:
Tryptophan - eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS), which can cause death (there is ongoing debate about this one)
St. John's Wort and Gingko - both blood thinners
Bitter Orange (used in place of ephedrine) - cardiac arrythmia
And my all time favorite: Grapefruit juice: it can either make meds too strong or not work at all. Go figure. Pomegranate juice has the same effect but it's not as strong as grapefruit juice, which I drank in prodigious amounts before I found out. A sadness of my life - pomegranates were another favorite.
The truth is that nearly anything can be abused. Most medications are synthesized versions of things people have been using for centuries. When I lived in Northampton I took a natural remedy called White Willow Bark. Almost no one takes it because the synthesized version - aspirin - was cheaper to make.
Amphetamines and methamphetamines come from natural medicines. Amphetamines were used for people with asthma at first, but people began taking the inhalers apart and getting high. There was military use of both in one of the world wars.
I used guarana thinking that it was a caffeine enhancer but actually it is an amphetamine. There are a couple of herbal remedies that also are amphetamines, but I don't think any are as commonly used (outside of athletics) as guarana. Carnitine is one of them. Cathione (known as Khat) is banned in the U.S., but widely used in other countries. Methamphetamine comes from ma huang, which you can still get as an herbal extract. Ephedrine, the main derivative, can't really be found these days, and pseudoephedrine is nearly a prescription medicine. I used to take ephedrine (Bronkaid, formerly OTC) for asthma.
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
-
I've thought a lot about the changing faces and labels of "disorders," and about the claim from
some quarters that ADHD is an invented condition. Maybe in 10 years it'll be called something
else entirely. :dunno: I hope I can still get my meds, or find something OTC that does the same
things for me that the meds do. I'm definitely happier, more productive, less anxious on my
medication. My meds help me to get out of my own way.
Did you get the DX MBD as a youngster?
Minimal Brain Dysfuntion?
This got replaced so long ago I never knew about it. But finding out the meaning led me to this:
http://www.healthyplace.com/adhd/articles/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-minimal-brain-dysfunction/ (http://www.healthyplace.com/adhd/articles/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-minimal-brain-dysfunction/)
Too bad it's undated and not juried; it is one of the few places I've seen in which the combination of ADD and giftedness is discussed. For years no one believed I could have any kind of learning disability so I went undiagnosed and untreated. Because you can't go to Bronx Science if you have a learning disability. You can't be dyslexic if you're smart.
-
I've thought a lot about the changing faces and labels of "disorders," and about the claim from
some quarters that ADHD is an invented condition. Maybe in 10 years it'll be called something
else entirely. :dunno: I hope I can still get my meds, or find something OTC that does the same
things for me that the meds do. I'm definitely happier, more productive, less anxious on my
medication. My meds help me to get out of my own way.
Did you get the DX MBD as a youngster?
Had to Goodle that one. No, I didn't, though I'm not sure that dx was around when I was a child
in the 1970s, or if I would have gotten it even if it had been, since my mother wouldn't even allow my
sister to be tested in high school for a possible math-related learning disability, as she worried about
permanent records and stigma (and, possibly, that it would reflect badly upon her). I really didn't have
that many problems in daily functioning, just couldn't stay focused and "on task" in school, and didn't
know how to be social with the peer group. The OCD appeared briefly in my early years, in the form of
intrusive thoughts, but didn't become a real problem till I was in my early 30s. :nerd!:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
That's kinda funny considering Florida is like the go-to place to get pills in large quantities (opiates, mainly, I think).
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
That's kinda funny considering Florida is like the go-to place to get pills in large quantities (opiates, mainly, I think).
It's because of all the stovetop meth labs in the south. People have to show ID and hork up a gob of phlem to be allowed to buy a single box of over-the-counter antihistamines. :lol1:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
But they are- they're uppers/speed. Thing is, they work great as "legit" medicine, but they also work pretty great as drugs. And can have unfortunate side effects when they're abused.
Which a lot of meds can, but AFAIK, Ritalin is not a great upper. It can help you focus, it can improve your cognitive abilities, but it isn't a great drug.
At least where I work, we actually do try to make sure we're only prescribing stimulants to people who legitly have ADHD, and not just people who want "study drugs," to get skinny, get high from the stimulants themselves, or to sell them.
You may get skinny by popping Ritalin because you can lose your appetite, but does it really work for that purpose in the long term? And getting high? Jittery, sure, in higher doses, when all kinds of bad things can happen, but again AFAIK it's rather difficult to get high with Ritalin.
You lost the pill-popping mentality plot at the phrase "in the long term." :P
Also, we more get people wanting adderall, here.
Never tried Adderall, me, only Ritalin and Concerta, and those have no fun side effects, only some boring ones. Plus, I had an allergic reaction against Concerta.
I guess I'm just not very good at this pill-popping thing.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
-
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
They don't know why/how meds work for lots of things. If all meds that are not understood are skipped, there will be plenty of people in agony. Not only because of neurological and mental problems.
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
The more relevant question may be when. They've cracked down on various stuff semi-recently- started carding for cold medicine at some point within the last decade-ish, made most if not all of that terrible fake weed shit illegal within the last couple of years, etc.
I'm wondering if it was in one of those sketchy-looking supplement-things they often have for sale next to the counter?
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
The more relevant question may be when. They did start carding for cold medicine at some point within the last decade-ish.
That's true, I have to show ID before buying my Robitussin DM! :beer:
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
The more relevant question may be when. They did start carding for cold medicine at some point within the last decade-ish.
That's true, I have to show ID before buying my Robitussin DM! :beer:
I had to show ID the last time I bought fucking compressed air. And yes, it was because of fear of huffing. This, in a town where people are dropping like flies form heroin use. :facepalm2:
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
Curious my a$$, we all know what you're cooking.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2013-09/enhanced/webdr05/27/11/enhanced-buzz-7695-1380297214-44.jpg)
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
Curious my a$$, we all know what you're cooking.
(http://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2013-09/enhanced/webdr05/27/11/enhanced-buzz-7695-1380297214-44.jpg)
Fixed your link. :angel:
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
The more relevant question may be when. They did start carding for cold medicine at some point within the last decade-ish.
That's true, I have to show ID before buying my Robitussin DM! :beer:
I had to show ID the last time I bought fucking compressed air. And yes, it was because of fear of huffing. This, in a town where people are dropping like flies form heroin use. :facepalm2:
We do what we can to save whomever we can. :police:
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
The more relevant question may be when. They did start carding for cold medicine at some point within the last decade-ish.
That's true, I have to show ID before buying my Robitussin DM! :beer:
Sometime back in the 2000s. When I found the Bronkaid I stopped looking. It was the 7-11 just outside of Amherst, can't remember the route number.
-
Interesting note - the further south you go, the stricter they are about dispensing pseudoephedrine or other stimulants. Florida was a nightmare, even to get my methylphenidate prescription filled. I was treated with suspicion at every pharmacy I tried. In Massachusetts no questions were asked. In MA, I found ephedrine at 7-11. In Florida no ephedrine anywhere. Luckily I still have a stock of Bronkaid. In Canada they don't have the long acting version of pseudoephedrine, but the short acting is sold on the shelves with no ID required. I haven't looked for Bronkaid equivalents yet.
Whereabouts in Massachusetts? Just asking out of ... scientific curiosity. :kapkao:
Curious my a$$, we all know what you're cooking.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2013-09/enhanced/webdr05/27/11/enhanced-buzz-7695-1380297214-44.jpg)
Holy crap. Is that really a drug? :orly:
-
Looks like meth to me.
-
The kind in Breaking Bad.
-
Looks like meth to me.
It looks like pop rocks. :orly:
-
The kind in Breaking Bad.
I never watched the show, but I googled it and evidentially the show made it hip and trendy to put blue in real meth. :lol1:
-
Last night we left at 8:20 PM for our trip to the U.S.
Py says it was like night and day, the difference. I was ready when she got home from work and almost had her dinner ready on time. There was no panic and I packed a small bag, my back pack and computer case. We had groceries in one bag and the computer in the other. I forgot only one thing that we didn't need to go back for, and we got to the hotel by 9:40 PM with no fighting. They could not find a cart for us but there were so few bags that we just carried them up on our own.
The last time we went for a weekend we needed one of those carts - I had a huge suitcase plus several smaller bags, my computer case and backpack, and a picnic cooler. Nonetheless I had forgotten things and had to buy them here. My life before meds was full of backup items and contingency plans. This time I just packed what I needed and left.
I was off meds for about 6 months - that was how long it took for things to go the way of Algernon.
It takes about a year for things to really kick in and change but so far so good. By contrast, when I was still well medicated, I went to take care of my father for 6 weeks. I packed my computer and one carry on bag. From here I am still not sure how I did that, but I had everything I needed.
-
The kind in Breaking Bad.
I never watched the show, but I googled it and evidentially the show made it hip and trendy to put blue in real meth. :lol1:
Why not?! Don't you have a TV?! You must watch it, you must! :GA:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
I never said it was a mental illness. I called it an alleged "disease", but admitted it was the wrong word to use. We weren't discussing diabetes either, but you felt like bringing it in out of nowhere and are oblivious to your hypocrisy. You're acting like a child right now, trying to exclude opinions you disagree with, and resorting to insults because you cannot stick to the discussion, so in fact it is you who isn't capable of serious discussion. Your stance is that you must believe exactly what we are told and take the drugs we are told to take for conditions etc that we don't even know exist. Totalitarian states love people like that.
Placebos have worked in some cases. You do understand how important it is to be skeptical about medication and alleged illnesses when big drug companies are so corrupted and profit orientated?
-
The kind in Breaking Bad.
I never watched the show, but I googled it and evidentially the show made it hip and trendy to put blue in real meth. :lol1:
Why not?! Don't you have a TV?! You must watch it, you must! :GA:
Our TV is so big it's asinine. :orly:
-
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
They don't know why/how meds work for lots of things. If all meds that are not understood are skipped, there will be plenty of people in agony. Not only because of neurological and mental problems.
I never said they should be skipped in all cases, i'm just saying people should be skeptical or at least open minded when it comes to conditions that might not even exist. We don't know what kind of damage could be caused by some child with behavior problems prescribed drugs that are making drug companies billions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
-
The kind in Breaking Bad.
I never watched the show, but I googled it and evidentially the show made it hip and trendy to put blue in real meth. :lol1:
I wonder if Jesse Pinkman's earlier recipe inspired anyone to add "chili P." :rofl:
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
I never said it was a mental illness. I called it an alleged "disease", but admitted it was the wrong word to use. We weren't discussing diabetes either, but you felt like bringing it in out of nowhere and are oblivious to your hypocrisy. You're acting like a child right now, trying to exclude opinions you disagree with, and resorting to insults because you cannot stick to the discussion, so in fact it is you who isn't capable of serious discussion. Your stance is that you must believe exactly what we are told and take the drugs we are told to take for conditions etc that we don't even know exist. Totalitarian states love people like that.
Placebos have worked in some cases. You do understand how important it is to be skeptical about medication and alleged illnesses when big drug companies are so corrupted and profit orientated?
Actually I use insults because you produce stupid posts. It's clear that you have no clue whatsoever. You move goalposts, you admit the use of the wrong word only to use another that is just as bad, you misquote, you mischaracterise and you misunderstand, yet you keep on posting your drivel without a second thought. You say "we" when you should only talk for yourself, considering how several of us rely on meds for conditions you imply don't even exist.
In so many words, I don't suffer fools but I sure love to see them suffer.
-
I do wish we could have a serious discussion about this because the truth is that for some, placebos will work, but not because illnesses are invented or fake. There are all kinds of third variables like oxytocin, which makes it seem like a placebo works, but actually it's the attention the individual is receiving.
There is skepticism about big pharma, and then there is the guy who was funded by anti-pharma lawyers to do research that resulted in parents withholding vaccines from their children and a subsequent resurgence of childhood diseases.
My mother's skepticism about doctors and medications led to my not being treated for ADHD long enough that I've lost many opportunities to be a fully functioning member of society.
There is such a thing as a healthy skepticism that leads us to do research about what we're doing and take the least harmful, most effective route to success. There is also the issue of acceptable risk. That, however, is a whole other can of worms.
That said, success is differently defined in different places. Here in Canada, my doctors do not intervene even though I am at a lower level of functioning than would be acceptable in the U.S. This is doing damage to my body, but they don't have the foresight to understand this.
-
I do wish we could have a serious discussion about this because the truth is that for some, placebos will work, but not because illnesses are invented or fake. There are all kinds of third variables like oxytocin, which makes it seem like a placebo works, but actually it's the attention the individual is receiving.
Thank you for this. A friend of mine is skeptical about psych meds, partly because his parents
took his younger brother to a doctor to be evaluated for possible ADHD (I think this was a pediatrician,
not a psychiatrist), and the doc gave the boy "meds" which supposedly improved his behavior despite
the fact that they were placebos. I don't know what the point of this experiment was, if this pediatrician
was one of the many doctors who "don't believe in" ADHD, but as a result, my friend now mistrusts
psych meds in general and thinks they're all a scam. Maybe it was indeed the attention being paid to his
problems that helped this boy. Anyway, my response to my own meds was immediate and continues
to be beneficial, so I will continue using them. I'm sorry your doctors don't take you seriously. >:(
-
I do wish we could have a serious discussion about this because the truth is that for some, placebos will work, but not because illnesses are invented or fake. There are all kinds of third variables like oxytocin, which makes it seem like a placebo works, but actually it's the attention the individual is receiving.
There is skepticism about big pharma, and then there is the guy who was funded by anti-pharma lawyers to do research that resulted in parents withholding vaccines from their children and a subsequent resurgence of childhood diseases.
My mother's skepticism about doctors and medications led to my not being treated for ADHD long enough that I've lost many opportunities to be a fully functioning member of society.
There is such a thing as a healthy skepticism that leads us to do research about what we're doing and take the least harmful, most effective route to success. There is also the issue of acceptable risk. That, however, is a whole other can of worms.
That said, success is differently defined in different places. Here in Canada, my doctors do not intervene even though I am at a lower level of functioning than would be acceptable in the U.S. This is doing damage to my body, but they don't have the foresight to understand this.
Agreed. We should have a serious discussion about this.
I'm betting that we don't yet know the true nature of ADD and friends. We don't know if it is one condition or several, if it actually is a comorbid of other conditions, if it's a spectrum of its own or part of another. We don't know.
We, as in those of us who are willing to discuss it without starting off by dismissing it as invented.
The first time I tried Concerta was an eye-opener. I had no idea my brain was all over the place until it stopped doing it for a few hours and allowed me to focus. The calm I experienced was amazing, and even more so because I had no idea what calm was.
Yet I'm essentially subclinical. I didn't meet all the criteria for ADHD. My doctor simply thought that I would benefit from the meds and he was right. I was lucky.
And at the same time, I can't help but wonder how much better I could have fared if I'd had the meds in my teens.
-
Two of my brothers got a kind of amphetamine as a kid to help them through learning difficulties. Especially for my younger brother the effect was massive. But he also got prismatic glasses, sensomotoric training, and our house was changed into a reading boot camp.
Funny how the meds had to be ordered. In those days amphetamines were treated as very dangerous hard drugs. The apothecary was not allowed to keep it in store for a few days. It had to be ordered and picked up the same day.
Both never used the meds again later in life. My youngest brother is very organised. But the meds helped him change from a technically as good as illiterate kid at age 11 to a very dyslectic kid at age 12.
-
One of the other points of the argument that we miss (and keep missing) is that everyone is different. My brain doesn't get fixed. I was hoping because my psychiatrist told me that sometimes meds change the brain so that meds are no longer needed. He had clients who were able to stop taking meds when they got to high school or college.
As for me, without meds, by the time I was an adult I had very rigid systems in place to manage the ADHD symptoms. By the time I met my ex, they were extensive, yet they only took the edge off. I was able to develop these because my IQ is higher than average - and for the same reason, I was not diagnosed even though my parents took me to social workers and psychiatrists. To this day, because I have a PhD people don't believe that I could have any issues. My ex disrupted those systems and I have not recovered. I have only a few in place now. Although she is a licensed psychologist, my ex believed that I was being lazy and that I had a poor memory.
When I met Py she was skeptical of meds and she too thought that ADHD was the result of laziness. But she's been through two periods of me without any meds at all. Ask her now.
People who don't believe in things like ADHD have never been around someone who really suffers from it. BUT - the problem with this is that if they are exposed to such people, those people become the criteria for diagnosis and someone like odeon is dismissed because his symptoms are subclinical.
So I think part of this boils down to rights. Do we have a right to be high functioning? Clearly people who are against treating subclinical symptoms with medication would say no - take some counseling and call me in five years. It's an interesting dilemma - who knows what we're missing by refusing to treat people who want to achieve? One thing we'd be missing is this place.
-
I think we do have the right to be high-functioning. I certainly hope we do because it makes sense if we buy all that other nonsense about everyone being born equal and whatnot, and it's part of what makes me not want to tolerate someone like Benji, because that is what he is saying, isn't it? We don't have that right because people think we are faking all this shit. And I guess that must mean I'm not faking it all that well either.
-
I am probably subclinical like Odeon. I asked for testing on AD(H)D. First time I asked I was referred to a very chaotic lady, she forgot appointments and was all over the place. She also was very much against meds. She was willing to test me, but never managed to do that. She was so chaotic they had to sack her. Then I got referred to someone knowing what he was doing. He did not get me tested for AD(H)D. He said he was part of the group not diagnosing it next to ASD. But that did not mean he did not take my issues serious. So, he referred me to a doctor to find medication that could help me.
Before people had wanted me on anti-depressants, on wellbutrin, on other stuff, all kinds of things that scared me and made me think it was not right for me.
A low dosage of methylphenidate helps me. I do not like the side-effects of being too organised in my head, so I use it a few weeks in a row, till things are stabilised enough again to keep going without for a while.
It does make a difference for me. And others can tell when I forget to take the afternoon dosage.
-
The only reason I was tested was because it was part of the ASD evaluation. It was not something I asked for or even thought about.
-
To this day no one believes I should be tested.
The psychiatrist I saw listened to my symptoms and probably my incessant speedy talking and tried me on Wellbutrin. After that didn't work we went to methylphenidate with me insisting on the lowest dose because I didn't need it (really). Ended up on a prodigious amount. Asked him about ASD but he said he wasn't sure about it as his expertise was ADHD and serious mental illness.
-
I was lucky, my GP believed me when I said I was having problems. He did a mini ADHD questionnaire on me and I answered yes to all the inattentive questions. I had never experienced anything like that before.
At that time (2004), my doctor referred me to a psychiatrist and also to have a SPECT scan. This was using the Dr Amen method of diagnosis which a lot of people think is rubbish but oh well. Anyway, I was put on meds and suddenly found it was easier to concentrate while driving and my supervisor at work complimented me on improved performance (he had before accused me of being on drugs before because I was so spacey).
About a year later I got my autism dx. At that time it was one dx or the other as primary dx according to the DSM. But now it says in the DSM 5 both dxes can exist together.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
I never said it was a mental illness. I called it an alleged "disease", but admitted it was the wrong word to use. We weren't discussing diabetes either, but you felt like bringing it in out of nowhere and are oblivious to your hypocrisy. You're acting like a child right now, trying to exclude opinions you disagree with, and resorting to insults because you cannot stick to the discussion, so in fact it is you who isn't capable of serious discussion. Your stance is that you must believe exactly what we are told and take the drugs we are told to take for conditions etc that we don't even know exist. Totalitarian states love people like that.
Placebos have worked in some cases. You do understand how important it is to be skeptical about medication and alleged illnesses when big drug companies are so corrupted and profit orientated?
Actually I use insults because you produce stupid posts. It's clear that you have no clue whatsoever. You move goalposts, you admit the use of the wrong word only to use another that is just as bad, you misquote, you mischaracterise and you misunderstand, yet you keep on posting your drivel without a second thought. You say "we" when you should only talk for yourself, considering how several of us rely on meds for conditions you imply don't even exist.
In so many words, I don't suffer fools but I sure love to see them suffer.
You mean you disagree with me? You mean I make mistakes? (the only difference being is that I admit them). See, this is your problem, I haven't 'implied' anything. Dust the sand out of your vagina and just stick to a serious a discussion, if you're not capable of it, then don't bother addressing me.
-
I think we do have the right to be high-functioning. I certainly hope we do because it makes sense if we buy all that other nonsense about everyone being born equal and whatnot, and it's part of what makes me not want to tolerate someone like Benji, because that is what he is saying, isn't it? We don't have that right because people think we are faking all this shit. And I guess that must mean I'm not faking it all that well either.
You think in extremes. I never said everyone was born equal, or that people are faking it. You're taking stuff personally, and you're misunderstanding my points. I was saying that we don't know enough about the alleged conditions (as in, the label, and not that the person doesn't have a problem) or the treatments.
-
I think we do have the right to be high-functioning. I certainly hope we do because it makes sense if we buy all that other nonsense about everyone being born equal and whatnot, and it's part of what makes me not want to tolerate someone like Benji, because that is what he is saying, isn't it? We don't have that right because people think we are faking all this shit. And I guess that must mean I'm not faking it all that well either.
You think in extremes. I never said everyone was born equal, or that people are faking it. You're taking stuff personally, and you're misunderstanding my points. I was saying that we don't know enough about the alleged conditions (as in, the label, and not that the person doesn't have a problem) or the treatments.
But the same holds true for many natural treatments and conditions that are not understood. For example, it was not known until recently that St. John's Wort reduces the effect of the anticoagulant Coumarin, or that grapefruit juice could interfere with your allergy or pain medicine.
If we continue to use diabetes as an example, then we can say that before we knew about insulin and how blood sugar worked, the symptoms in some cases were considered to be fabricated/laziness or the individual was diagnosed with something that required treatment with, say, leeches, or further back in history, things like urine or human blood.
While it's true that we don't know everything about ADHD and about the medicines that treat it, we can alleviate pain with what we know. When you say we don't know enough, you say that the years of scientific testing are not valid, that something more is needed. "Enough" is arbitrary. If "we" is a body of experts then I am willing to hear what is their standard. We (meaning psychologists, psychiatrists and researchers) actually know a lot about the chemistry involved in ADHD and its treatments. A point for your side is the current introduction of brain plasticity into the mix. We certainly don't know "enough" about brain plasticity, which is why its use with ADHD is limited at this time. I am hoping for fast development of this alternative since I hate taking meds.
I dislike labels as much as the next person who's covered in them, but they are useful. They are useful to me (as a psychologist) as heuristics for constellations of conditions that otherwise might require too much decoding time. It gives me a place to start. We find each other and our remedies with labels. I agree that the labels are often misused, but that doesn't mean they don't have meaning for those for whom they are appropriate.
-
I think we do have the right to be high-functioning. I certainly hope we do because it makes sense if we buy all that other nonsense about everyone being born equal and whatnot, and it's part of what makes me not want to tolerate someone like Benji, because that is what he is saying, isn't it? We don't have that right because people think we are faking all this shit. And I guess that must mean I'm not faking it all that well either.
You think in extremes. I never said everyone was born equal, or that people are faking it. You're taking stuff personally, and you're misunderstanding my points. I was saying that we don't know enough about the alleged conditions (as in, the label, and not that the person doesn't have a problem) or the treatments.
But the same holds true for many natural treatments and conditions that are not understood. For example, it was not known until recently that St. John's Wort reduces the effect of the anticoagulant Coumarin, or that grapefruit juice could interfere with your allergy or pain medicine.
If we continue to use diabetes as an example, then we can say that before we knew about insulin and how blood sugar worked, the symptoms in some cases were considered to be fabricated/laziness or the individual was diagnosed with something that required treatment with, say, leeches, or further back in history, things like urine or human blood.
While it's true that we don't know everything about ADHD and about the medicines that treat it, we can alleviate pain with what we know. When you say we don't know enough, you say that the years of scientific testing are not valid, that something more is needed. "Enough" is arbitrary. If "we" is a body of experts then I am willing to hear what is their standard. We (meaning psychologists, psychiatrists and researchers) actually know a lot about the chemistry involved in ADHD and its treatments. A point for your side is the current introduction of brain plasticity into the mix. We certainly don't know "enough" about brain plasticity, which is why its use with ADHD is limited at this time. I am hoping for fast development of this alternative since I hate taking meds.
I dislike labels as much as the next person who's covered in them, but they are useful. They are useful to me (as a psychologist) as heuristics for constellations of conditions that otherwise might require too much decoding time. It gives me a place to start. We find each other and our remedies with labels. I agree that the labels are often misused, but that doesn't mean they don't have meaning for those for whom they are appropriate.
What is "anticoagulant Coumarin"? I've taken St. John's Wort in the past, but really didn't think about any ill effects as it's herbal, though it says to consult your GP if you're on other medication.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but every condition or illness is different. We're not talking about patients faking it here, we're talking about patients being used by pharmaceutical companies using people. And it isn't "testing", it's just labeling people and giving them drugs. " brain plasticity", could you explain more please? I hate taking meds too.
Yes I know labels can be useful, things have just gotten out of control in my eyes.
-
I think we do have the right to be high-functioning. I certainly hope we do because it makes sense if we buy all that other nonsense about everyone being born equal and whatnot, and it's part of what makes me not want to tolerate someone like Benji, because that is what he is saying, isn't it? We don't have that right because people think we are faking all this shit. And I guess that must mean I'm not faking it all that well either.
You think in extremes. I never said everyone was born equal, or that people are faking it. You're taking stuff personally, and you're misunderstanding my points. I was saying that we don't know enough about the alleged conditions (as in, the label, and not that the person doesn't have a problem) or the treatments.
But the same holds true for many natural treatments and conditions that are not understood. For example, it was not known until recently that St. John's Wort reduces the effect of the anticoagulant Coumarin, or that grapefruit juice could interfere with your allergy or pain medicine.
If we continue to use diabetes as an example, then we can say that before we knew about insulin and how blood sugar worked, the symptoms in some cases were considered to be fabricated/laziness or the individual was diagnosed with something that required treatment with, say, leeches, or further back in history, things like urine or human blood.
While it's true that we don't know everything about ADHD and about the medicines that treat it, we can alleviate pain with what we know. When you say we don't know enough, you say that the years of scientific testing are not valid, that something more is needed. "Enough" is arbitrary. If "we" is a body of experts then I am willing to hear what is their standard. We (meaning psychologists, psychiatrists and researchers) actually know a lot about the chemistry involved in ADHD and its treatments. A point for your side is the current introduction of brain plasticity into the mix. We certainly don't know "enough" about brain plasticity, which is why its use with ADHD is limited at this time. I am hoping for fast development of this alternative since I hate taking meds.
I dislike labels as much as the next person who's covered in them, but they are useful. They are useful to me (as a psychologist) as heuristics for constellations of conditions that otherwise might require too much decoding time. It gives me a place to start. We find each other and our remedies with labels. I agree that the labels are often misused, but that doesn't mean they don't have meaning for those for whom they are appropriate.
What is "anticoagulant Coumarin"? I've taken St. John's Wort in the past, but really didn't think about any ill effects as it's herbal, though it says to consult your GP if you're on other medication.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but every condition or illness is different. We're not talking about patients faking it here, we're talking about patients being used by pharmaceutical companies using people. And it isn't "testing", it's just labeling people and giving them drugs. " brain plasticity", could you explain more please? I hate taking meds too.
Yes I know labels can be useful, things have just gotten out of control in my eyes.
Coumarin is a medication taken by people with risk of blood clots - it thins the blood.
Most people don't think about the ill effects of herbal preparations - my mother is one of those folks who takes dozens of pills a day - herbal remedies all - without much research into what they do. She does err on the side of organic, which protects her from some of the stuff they spray on the herbs, but she doesn't know how they might interact with each other or with the heart medication she was taking at one point.
You are talking about patients being used by pharmaceutical companies - while it's true that these meds were pushed in the past, it's also true that there were some with legitimate issues addressed by those meds. It's not as black and white as the herbal enthusiasts would like to believe.
I used caffeine most of my life but my psychiatrist became alarmed when I told him how much. The withdrawal symptoms were wicked. He's a stellar guy - he listened to me rant about not wanting meds and reminded me that caffeine is a drug. We tried an anti-depressant first (if anything you should be targeting those and not ADHD meds which are a controlled substance and well understood - see below), then stimulants at very low doses. Big Pharm wasn't involved in my case. In fact, big pharm wasn't around when ADHD was identified and the standard treatment was coffee.
There are forums for people who do legitimate research (not funded by big pharm) with drugs. These are good places to get information. Here's an example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874438/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874438/)
That one is on interactions with St. John's Wort. Why is the issue unfamiliar even though the article (and others like it) was published in 2002? Guess who is involved in producing those herbal remedies that everyone swears by? We won't escape big pharm. What we need to do is find good clinicians like my psychiatrist who know about the alternatives and can make an educated decision about what course to take. ADHD isn't an alleged disease. It's a developmental disorder, one of several that can be alleviated with medication.
Regarding anti-depressants: you would be amazed at how little we know and still use these. Some of them cause awful, irrevocable side effects. They cause depressed people to become suicidal - that's a standard warning on some of the medications. Yet we not only use them, but increasingly they are being approved for off label use. I was astounded to find them used for shingles, which is a medical condition. Granted that it's exacerbated by stress, but anti-depressants? That's a stretch. It's also becoming a practice to use anti-psychotic medication for depression - yet we know those are dangerous and we have only limited knowledge about their efficacy for depression.
-
If our current understanding of ADHD is completely scrapped within the next 10 years and
replaced by new labels, new tests, new treatments, that's fine with me. I know we're still winging it
in dealing with the brain. That doesn't mean I should have to wait, unmedicated, unhelped, for the rest of
my life, till inattentive/daydreaming/time-losing brains like mine are understood 100%. My meds have
made a big improvement in my daily functioning and quality of life. I'll be happy to try something new
down the line, but in the meantime I'm fine paying "big pharma" my $50/month co-payment to get
the results I get from the medication I'm on now, because I'm getting what I'm paying for.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
I never said it was a mental illness. I called it an alleged "disease", but admitted it was the wrong word to use. We weren't discussing diabetes either, but you felt like bringing it in out of nowhere and are oblivious to your hypocrisy. You're acting like a child right now, trying to exclude opinions you disagree with, and resorting to insults because you cannot stick to the discussion, so in fact it is you who isn't capable of serious discussion. Your stance is that you must believe exactly what we are told and take the drugs we are told to take for conditions etc that we don't even know exist. Totalitarian states love people like that.
Placebos have worked in some cases. You do understand how important it is to be skeptical about medication and alleged illnesses when big drug companies are so corrupted and profit orientated?
Actually I use insults because you produce stupid posts. It's clear that you have no clue whatsoever. You move goalposts, you admit the use of the wrong word only to use another that is just as bad, you misquote, you mischaracterise and you misunderstand, yet you keep on posting your drivel without a second thought. You say "we" when you should only talk for yourself, considering how several of us rely on meds for conditions you imply don't even exist.
In so many words, I don't suffer fools but I sure love to see them suffer.
You mean you disagree with me? You mean I make mistakes? (the only difference being is that I admit them). See, this is your problem, I haven't 'implied' anything. Dust the sand out of your vagina and just stick to a serious a discussion, if you're not capable of it, then don't bother addressing me.
Yes, I disagree with you. Yes, you make mistakes (and no, you only admit some of them and only when confronted). It's actually your problem. You've implied lots. I love it how you are talking about dusting a vagina and then, in the same sentence, want to stick to a serious discussion. Since you're not capable of one, I will continue addressing you like the fool you are.
-
I just lived my life as normal when I was a kid and then all of a sudden at age ten, I was put on medicine. I hated it. It was supposed to make me control my behavior better and act out less in class and be more focused. I was diagnosed with ADD and was suspected as having ADHD but didn't meet enough for the ADHD label but enough for the ADD label. I also had some hyperactivity so I would get goofy sometimes. It would happen when I would get very excited and overloaded and then I couldn't control myself. That was another thing I noticed different about myself because other kids seem to be in more control and never acted that way and for me it was hard to control it and that also got in the way of socializing. Now I am recognizing it in my son and me, mom, and husband all think he has ADHD but the school district thinks it's Asperger's so we are going to try and get him professionally tested. I don't really want to put him on medication unless I have to.
-
OK thanks Wolfish. I corrected myself, 'ADHD' is an alleged condition or "developmental disorder". And well, big pharm is around now and since then diagnosis and sales of 'ADHD' meds have spiraled off the charts.
I was thinking of treatments for depression too, and with depression medication should always be the last resort in my view. I hate being on them.
-
Disease?
Sorry, i'm worn down, definitely the wrong word :autism:
I'm pretty skeptical about 'ADHD' though, or 'ODD'. The health service here definitely hands out drugs way too easily, let alone how it is in the US.
They don't hand them out as easily here, it would seem. I've had trouble with some doctors not wanting to prescribe them to me.
The problem here seems to be that people equate ADHD meds with drugs, which they aren't.
That's a good thing, they should be the last resort. I think if you've tried every other option and literally cannot cope, then you shouldn't be made to wait.
A different type of drug i'd say.
Would you have diabetics test every other option before giving them insulin?
The medical industry knows far more about diabetes and insulin, than it does with mental illness and 'anti-depressants'.
So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work? And since when are we discussing mental illnesses and antidepressants? Moving the goalposts much?
You were the one who brought up diabetes, when we were discussing 'ADHD'!! :facepalm2:
"So the criterion for handing out meds that are known to work is that you have to know how they work?" That would kind of help. Especially when it's regarding a 'condition' we don't know much about or if it even exists.
ADHD is not a mental illness and we were not discussing antidepressants. It's obvious that you don't believe the condition exists, but it's to be expected. You are the village idiot and expected to act like one. A bit of target practice but not something I'd have a serious discussion with. That bit is best left to the grown-ups.
As an aside, there are quite a few meds out there given to people because they do work, but where the how is still unknown or debated. These include both new meds and existing ones, like those with an accepted off-label use. Google is your friend.
I never said it was a mental illness. I called it an alleged "disease", but admitted it was the wrong word to use. We weren't discussing diabetes either, but you felt like bringing it in out of nowhere and are oblivious to your hypocrisy. You're acting like a child right now, trying to exclude opinions you disagree with, and resorting to insults because you cannot stick to the discussion, so in fact it is you who isn't capable of serious discussion. Your stance is that you must believe exactly what we are told and take the drugs we are told to take for conditions etc that we don't even know exist. Totalitarian states love people like that.
Placebos have worked in some cases. You do understand how important it is to be skeptical about medication and alleged illnesses when big drug companies are so corrupted and profit orientated?
Actually I use insults because you produce stupid posts. It's clear that you have no clue whatsoever. You move goalposts, you admit the use of the wrong word only to use another that is just as bad, you misquote, you mischaracterise and you misunderstand, yet you keep on posting your drivel without a second thought. You say "we" when you should only talk for yourself, considering how several of us rely on meds for conditions you imply don't even exist.
In so many words, I don't suffer fools but I sure love to see them suffer.
You mean you disagree with me? You mean I make mistakes? (the only difference being is that I admit them). See, this is your problem, I haven't 'implied' anything. Dust the sand out of your vagina and just stick to a serious a discussion, if you're not capable of it, then don't bother addressing me.
Yes, I disagree with you. Yes, you make mistakes (and no, you only admit some of them and only when confronted). It's actually your problem. You've implied lots. I love it how you are talking about dusting a vagina and then, in the same sentence, want to stick to a serious discussion. Since you're not capable of one, I will continue addressing you like the fool you are.
Duh, that's because I had made the mistake without realising. You mean you think i'm implying one thing when it's another, most of the time. Anyone who says something you disagree with is stupid in your eyes, but since you don't have the knowledge or intelligence to make a point using logic or reason, you just stick to insults.
-
Duh, that's because I had made the mistake without realising. You mean you think i'm implying one thing when it's another, most of the time. Anyone who says something you disagree with is stupid in your eyes, but since you don't have the knowledge or intelligence to make a point using logic or reason, you just stick to insults.
Logic and reason are so rarely needed in your case, but do keep trying. If you happen to stumble across an argument worth dismantling, I will do so.
-
You aren't remotely capable of doing so. You just act as a parrot for people who do know what they're talking about and who you agree with. I remember you got flustered when we were talking about WWII, and was begging for "Adam" to come along as you know next to nothing.
-
You aren't remotely capable of doing so. You just act as a parrot for people who do know what they're talking about and who you agree with. I remember you got flustered when we were talking about WWII, and was begging for "Adam" to come along as you know next to nothing.
Mischaracterisation is one of your more endearing qualities, but probably the only one that comes naturally to you.
-
You aren't remotely capable of doing so. You just act as a parrot for people who do know what they're talking about and who you agree with. I remember you got flustered when we were talking about WWII, and was begging for "Adam" to come along as you know next to nothing.
Mischaracterisation is one of your more endearing qualities, but probably the only one that comes naturally to you.
Do you just sit there stuffing your fat face with fortune cookies and reading out what it says inside? You really are an empty shell.
-
This is so much hotter than the women fighting. :zoinks:
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mat8j6siti1r8xzdwo2_500.jpg)
-
You aren't remotely capable of doing so. You just act as a parrot for people who do know what they're talking about and who you agree with. I remember you got flustered when we were talking about WWII, and was begging for "Adam" to come along as you know next to nothing.
Mischaracterisation is one of your more endearing qualities, but probably the only one that comes naturally to you.
Do you just sit there stuffing your fat face with fortune cookies and reading out what it says inside? You really are an empty shell.
I love it how you try to insult me.
-
This is so much hotter than the women fighting. :zoinks:
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mat8j6siti1r8xzdwo2_500.jpg)
But then, you're a gopher.
-
This is so much hotter than the women fighting. :zoinks:
(http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mat8j6siti1r8xzdwo2_500.jpg)
But then, you're a gopher.
It's a shame this isn't in real life, then the fight might get physical and someone could accidentally touch a crotch. :zoinks:
-
He's probably never been out in public, he's probably tried getting a diagnosis for agoraphobia :hahaha:
-
It's a shame this isn't in real life, then the fight might get physical and someone could accidentally touch a crotch. :zoinks:
You can't even reach your own crotch. :hahaha: :trollface:
-
It's a shame this isn't in real life, then the fight might get physical and someone could accidentally touch a crotch. :zoinks:
You can't even reach your own crotch. :hahaha: :trollface:
Wanna help me? :eyelash:
-
It's a shame this isn't in real life, then the fight might get physical and someone could accidentally touch a crotch. :zoinks:
You can't even reach your own crotch. :hahaha: :trollface:
Wanna help me? :eyelash:
Ask one of your bitches. :trollface: