INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: sg1008 on April 12, 2015, 07:15:32 PM
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this pic:
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Morgan "God" Freeman - Black History Month
Morgan Freeman on Black History Month (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s#ws)
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I don't hate racism. I hate racism disguised as social justice. :zoinks:
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Don't hate victims; hate victim mentality.
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Seeing sociological differences and being a victim is not the same.
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Seeing sociological differences and being a victim is not the same.
Indeed
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Seeing sociological differences and being a victim is not the same.
Living in a world of only victims and perpetrators makes identifying as a victim a positive thing. All of the statements in the op are us and them and have no middle ground.
"The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
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Seeing sociological differences and being a victim is not the same.
Living in a world of only victims and perpetrators makes identifying as a victim a positive thing. All of the statements in the op are us and them and have no middle ground.
"The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
What is the source of that quote?
I don't believe in moral superiority of victims. That is bullshit. But I do see sociological differences that have big consequences. Not thinking in victim or perpetrator here. Because that is a futile approach in sociological settings. It works in court, not in society as society.
That the perpetrator - victim dichotomy does not apply does not make the sociological differences have less impact.
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What is the source of that quote?
http://www.zurinstitute.com/victimhood.html (http://www.zurinstitute.com/victimhood.html)
I don't believe in moral superiority of victims.
I do. People with victim mentality often aren't really even victims, but rather a learned sense powerlessness over their lives, categorize and generalize people in terms of good people and bad people. It's been made very clear white people are the bad people with bad intentions, he doesn't like white people and he especially doesn't like seeing them in his neighborhood.
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Am just getting sick of the word white being generalized in these conversations by a multi-racial person, Hyke. One of these days SG may actually talk to me about these things from a personal perspective; rather than a detached distance, and will keep provoking him every time he brings it up, in hopes that might happen. It would be very interesting to talk about the whites and non-whites in our lives. Am actually in the process of telling a friend the story of the first time I realized in my childhood, that people of my own non-white ethnic background don't accept me or my family members, because we refuse to live on a reservation or seek out benefits or handouts or affirmative action, or any other patronizing social bullshit which labels us as otherwise unable. It's that way with black people too. Blacks who strive to be educated or successful in any way are rejected by blacks as not being real blacks, and touted as trying to act white, because they refuse to play the part of the victim society insists they are. http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/The-Victim-Mentality-of-Black-Americans (http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/The-Victim-Mentality-of-Black-Americans)
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how about NOPE :headhurts: we're all humans,
PS. there are cops of color, rich folk of color, etc do they 'add to the problem'
PPS. hate begets more hate, get your butt out of your face and do something about it! like oh help your fellow human even if they can't help you in return, then get back with me...(on second thought don't)
PPPS. the maker of that sign has probably not asked someone who's lived through the crap that went on in the 1960's to get a perspective or something intelligent like that, oh heck no because old people know nothing :tard:
and finally yes there are the people in those brackets that are just awful people, but that's just it they are awful 'people' who use there positions or what have you to abuse others...It's case by case and there are laws in place for these matters...
And another thing, why is it when jessy jackson and company go to a location preach this that and whatever, leave and shit all happens?
Exactly...
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Am just getting sick of the word white being generalized in these conversations by a multi-racial person, Hyke. One of these days SG may actually talk to me about these things from a personal perspective; rather than a detached distance, and will keep provoking him every time he brings it up, in hopes that might happen. It would be very interesting to talk about the whites and non-whites in our lives. Am actually in the process of telling a friend the story of the first time I realized in my childhood, that people of my own non-white ethnic background don't accept me or my family members, because we refuse to live on a reservation or seek out benefits or handouts or affirmative action, or any other patronizing social bullshit which labels us as otherwise unable. It's that way with black people too. Blacks who strive to be educated or successful in any way are rejected by blacks as not being real blacks, and touted as trying to act white, because they refuse to play the part of the victim society insists they are. http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/The-Victim-Mentality-of-Black-Americans (http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/The-Victim-Mentality-of-Black-Americans)
I get what you mean, but there are so many ways to look at things. Personal levels, sociological levels, historical levels.
And all give different perspectives. The victim card is one that annoys me massively. How often will Germany have to apologise for what happened in WWII. Some keep demanding that. Probably still will, in fifty years time. Makes no sense. Knowing about history does.
That kids in "black" schools in my country get less options in practice than kids from "white" schools. Or kids from "low income area" schools and kids from "posh" schools is sociologically clear. There is no guilt, there are no vicitims. There is still a difference. And a society that wants to stay healthy will try to make the gaps between the chances the groups have in practice (not theory) smaller.
The victim card is a lousy card, in situations like this. In the past, rich land owners, and with that high elders in churches would have it preached a lot that the poor and the meek would go to heaven way more easy than the rich. Victim card in favour of the rich during life, and the poor after life.
Now there is no afterlife to reward for the misery in this life. And some found a way to play the victim card to claim money. If it works, there will be people doing it. If sex pays, there will be people selling it. As long as the opportunity is there to play the victim card, and gain by it, people will do it, no matter what background they come from. That is why I refuse to believe in the victim game.
Being aware as a state that there are sociological differences that need honest attention, different from same rules for all is something different from honouring a victim game.
Victims happen in crimes. Where people are at fault, and people have to answer for what they did. Most victims will hopefully be able to outgrow their victim role, and start living their life again.
In sociological settings, life is not fair, but no one is at fault for the situation he or she is born in. Every situation does come with challenges and responsibilities that belong to the setting they are born in.
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Seeing sociological differences and being a victim is not the same.
Living in a world of only victims and perpetrators makes identifying as a victim a positive thing. All of the statements in the op are us and them and have no middle ground.
"The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
Absolutely agree.
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this pic:
:thumbdn: :finger:
Is it asking too much for you to NOT try and pit one group of working class people against another based on the color of their skin.
You're doing the 1%'ers work for them while claiming to be against them.
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How often will Germany have to apologise for what happened in WWII.
If the US is any indication, maybe forever.
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Morgan "God" Freeman - Black History Month
Morgan Freeman on Black History Month (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s#ws)
I lyke dis :thumbup:
But...I think it should be clarified (assuming Al already knows this), that the other half of there being no black history month, is that black history ought to be taught with regularity alongside colonial history. Same with native history, and anything relevant to historical events and the reality of this country.
Unfortunately today there is still a separation between black and colonial and native and immigrant histories...they are assumed to be entirely separate and the minority histories are seen as entirely the responsibility of minorities to care about. Sooo many things would be different if history lessons were more inclusive.
The only thing I conditionally disagree with is, race is important to those who value ancestral knowledge and family traditions. Go back far enough and we all have the same group of ancestors, but its valuable to realise that our respective families, tribes, nations, & cultures inherit a bit of experience that another family might not have inherited...as with any other traits. We're not homogenous, and we shouldn't be because diversity is key to adaptation and survival. If we can accept that there is no danger of racism.
You would say- thats a person, and that person has inherited a set of traits, and also a set of experiences & insights about the world through their family and racial culture. So they are uniquely valuable, and I am uniquely valuable.. but.... we are infinitely MORE valuable together. (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts) :)
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How often will Germany have to apologise for what happened in WWII.
If the US is any indication, maybe forever.
There is that, of course. Suing mentality, and always wanting to find someone guilty. And it does spread. Bit more than a decade ago, it was possible to rent the gym here, all set up for kids to play there in a safe way (Big swings, and stuff like that). Costs were low. Great way to have a BD party on a rainy day. All of a sudden that changed, just like schools changed their policies. Because of a suing mentality entering the nation. Before that, if a kid would break a leg on a party like that, it was an accident, sad, but an accident. All of a sudden it became something the one renting out the facilities would have to pay for. So, you could still rent the space, still use the utilities, but, it would not be set up any more, so there would be no liability. They had the skills to do it safe, but they were not allowed any more. Because they could become guilty, and that would be too expensive for the council that owned the gym.
Apparently people find it harder and harder to deal with the fact that sometimes you can get ill without a reason of fault too. Because in times of hardship, there has to be someone at fault, and there has to be a victim.
What happened with the concept of tragedy?
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How often will Germany have to apologise for what happened in WWII.
If the US is any indication, maybe forever.
There is that, of course. Suing mentality, and always wanting to find someone guilty. And it does spread. Bit more than a decade ago, it was possible to rent the gym here, all set up for kids to play there in a safe way (Big swings, and stuff like that). Costs were low. Great way to have a BD party on a rainy day. All of a sudden that changed, just like schools changed their policies. Because of a suing mentality entering the nation. Before that, if a kid would break a leg on a party like that, it was an accident, sad, but an accident. All of a sudden it became something the one renting out the facilities would have to pay for. So, you could still rent the space, still use the utilities, but, it would not be set up any more, so there would be no liability. They had the skills to do it safe, but they were not allowed any more. Because they could become guilty, and that would be too expensive for the council that owned the gym.
Apparently people find it harder and harder to deal with the fact that sometimes you can get ill without a reason of fault too. Because in times of hardship, there has to be someone at fault, and there has to be a victim.
What happened with the concept of tragedy?
My condolences I thought that, at least in the lawsuit department, Europe was better than here but I guess they are following us down lawsuit lane. The concept of tragedy has been lost on a great number of people all they want is someone to blame and hold accountable and they seem to be perplexed when there is no one. People in this category also use what ever it was as a crutch for the rest of their lives.
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How often will Germany have to apologise for what happened in WWII.
If the US is any indication, maybe forever.
There is that, of course. Suing mentality, and always wanting to find someone guilty. And it does spread. Bit more than a decade ago, it was possible to rent the gym here, all set up for kids to play there in a safe way (Big swings, and stuff like that). Costs were low. Great way to have a BD party on a rainy day. All of a sudden that changed, just like schools changed their policies. Because of a suing mentality entering the nation. Before that, if a kid would break a leg on a party like that, it was an accident, sad, but an accident. All of a sudden it became something the one renting out the facilities would have to pay for. So, you could still rent the space, still use the utilities, but, it would not be set up any more, so there would be no liability. They had the skills to do it safe, but they were not allowed any more. Because they could become guilty, and that would be too expensive for the council that owned the gym.
Apparently people find it harder and harder to deal with the fact that sometimes you can get ill without a reason of fault too. Because in times of hardship, there has to be someone at fault, and there has to be a victim.
What happened with the concept of tragedy?
My condolences I thought that, at least in the lawsuit department, Europe was better than here but I guess they are following us down lawsuit lane. The concept of tragedy has been lost on a great number of people all they want is someone to blame and hold accountable and they seem to be perplexed when there is no one. People in this category also use what ever it was as a crutch for the rest of their lives.
In the lawsuit department in my country, if a big scale tragedy happens, first law firms around are US firms, trying to find clients to make massive money claims. It used to be that you first waited to see what was the cause, and what help there could be for the people at loss. Then, if there was liability, yes, there would be repair money. But not starting with accusing and blaming before any data are there.
In the little things, like gyms and schools and accidents, there have been examples in the west of the country, and now policy of most community services is changing to prevent it happening. It sucks.
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Fuckin lawyers ;)
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:laugh:
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Fuckin lawyers ;)
I don't hate lawyers. I hate the systems which allows them to...oh wait...yeah, I hate lawyers. :zoinks:
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Morgan "God" Freeman - Black History Month
Morgan Freeman on Black History Month (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s#ws)
I lyke dis :thumbup:
But...I think it should be clarified (assuming Al already knows this), that the other half of there being no black history month, is that black history ought to be taught with regularity alongside colonial history. Same with native history, and anything relevant to historical events and the reality of this country.
Unfortunately today there is still a separation between black and colonial and native and immigrant histories...they are assumed to be entirely separate and the minority histories are seen as entirely the responsibility of minorities to care about. Sooo many things would be different if history lessons were more inclusive.
The only thing I conditionally disagree with is, race is important to those who value ancestral knowledge and family traditions. Go back far enough and we all have the same group of ancestors, but its valuable to realise that our respective families, tribes, nations, & cultures inherit a bit of experience that another family might not have inherited...as with any other traits. We're not homogenous, and we shouldn't be because diversity is key to adaptation and survival. If we can accept that there is no danger of racism.
You would say- thats a person, and that person has inherited a set of traits, and also a set of experiences & insights about the world through their family and racial culture. So they are uniquely valuable, and I am uniquely valuable.. but.... we are infinitely MORE valuable together. (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts) :)
The problem of course is one of practicalities.
Sounds harsh I know. But consider, in Australia we have a black native population, and we have a push for "reconciliation" (and to work "towards" that). But what is reconciliation and who makes that call? Aboriginal people you say? Not a bad answer, but which Aboriginal people? Leaders? Problem is, which ones? This is a list of tribes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indigenous_Australian_group_names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indigenous_Australian_group_names) There are a number of Elders in each one. Many Elders are not very traditional and many destroyed by grog.
What possible reconciliation would be enough for what has been done to their culture?
It is basically a bullshit sentiment.
If it were up to me, I would grant Tanya Major, Noel Pearson and Mike Dodson a lot more power, they have good heads on their shoulders and an absolute proven commitment to Aboriginals. That would be practical. But would that be enough?
What sounds nice in theory is rarely nice in practice
I think that a big thing too is that every population has been responsible for some oppression at some point. People are evolved from the survivors of the tribes that won. The smarter, tougher and more ruthless. Travel back down your family tree far enough and you will be the ancestor of an oppressor.
Empires rise and fall. New people subjugated new people dominating. We can not cater to you or give you compensation if your ancient relative was enslaved by the Romans nor if they were enslaved by the Moors. How did those people manage? How did THEY become US?
I think it is following Morgan's advice.