INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: drewtheyellow on December 10, 2006, 01:13:46 AM
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Well, I think that the end all political question is this: should we allow postnatal abortion in the name of freedom and liberty? Or should we let religious fundamentalists take away a woman's right to choose? We should just forget taxes, government spending, war, etc and focus all of our attention on this one issue! Now, brothers and sisters: what say you to allowing postnatal abortion and ending the power of the theocracy?
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I don't find this funny.
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I don't find this funny.
Uh.... sorry? I was bored? Did I strike a nerve?
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I just don't find killing cute little innocent babies funny.
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I just don't find killing cute little innocent babies funny.
Great, I bet you hate dead baby jokes too!
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I'm not particularly fond of them.
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I'm not particularly fond of them.
But they are the funniest jokes known to mankind!!!
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No, they are not funny at all.
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No, they are not funny at all.
I am getting a greater and greater feeling that I misplaced this thread.
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No, they are not funny at all.
I am getting a greater and greater feeling that I misplaced this thread.
Yeah, it's pretty fucking stupid, unless, as a demonstration of your commitment, you make the next postnatal abortion yours.
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Postnatal abortions are seriously discussed in Europe, Australia and New Zealand, though most of the public is against them.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
i once broke up with may girlfriend of three years for aborting our unborn fetus. it was a personal choice for her, but i let her know that i was against it. i could not spend the rest of my life with someone who could not respect my wishes. and i would never have been able to shed the guilt i felt that i will never have had the opportunity to have a relationship with my un-born child.
looking back, even now. i am saddened that she chose to abort.
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What is postnatal?
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What is postnatal?
when the baby is no longer dependent on the mothers body for life. out of the womb.
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I think the child should be property of the mother and father and not be recognized as a human until age 18.
And in that case, I think post natal abortion should be allowed, but why would you want to, when you could sell the child to medical science or into slave labor?
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
interesting.
i am sure that people could find you examples of severly retarded people who overcame the odds, but, i think that mostly, life would be a severe challenge.
i will have to think about my position on this further. maybe hear a few arguments.
still, my gut instinct says no. i value life. and i believe that things happen for a reason, and i welcome challenges. but this is just me. others have different priorities.
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When I was concieved they knew I was XXY, the doctors told them XXY's tended to be tall, skinny, large breasts, round shaped, and slightly mentally retarded. (This info was 20 years ago)
I have told my father this, and I am highly amused by it, that based on what they told my parents, I would have probably opted to abort me.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
I have the same view.
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I have often considered and threatened people that I really love with commiting suicide and behaved very self-destructive on occasions, and I'm a pretty high functioning aspie, with very few "outer" signs of the syndrome. Children who are very low functioning should be even more of a burden to themselves and their relatives. This is a horrible thing to say, but I think it's true.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
I have the same view.
now, if we can convince you that feminism for equity is ok, but feminism to change who people are is not, then you and i could be like two asPeas in a pod.
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
I think it's sad how many people abort their children because they have Down's. It really isn't that bad of a disorder, and not all of them are that retarded. I've met people with Down's who are really sweet, good people, and they lived lives that were pretty normal for the most part. If I had Down's I would want to live.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
I have the same view.
now, if we can convince you that feminism for equity is ok, but feminism to change who people are is not, then you and i could be like two asPeas in a pod.
Meh. You don't seem to understand my views. I'm not a feminist.
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
I think it's sad how many people abort their children because they have Down's. It really isn't that bad of a disorder, and not all of them are that retarded. I've met people with Down's who are really sweet, good people, and they lived lives that were pretty normal for the most part. If I had Down's I would want to live.
on that note:
it seems to me that kids with downs syndrome are always smiling and seem very happy. perhaps they are immune to the everyday bullshit that life has to offer.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
I have the same view.
now, if we can convince you that feminism for equity is ok, but feminism to change who people are is not, then you and i could be like two asPeas in a pod.
Meh. You don't seem to understand my views. I'm not a feminist.
really, i was just very proud of the two asPeas in a pod thingie and i just wanted to work it into conversation.
pretty cool huh?
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
I think it's sad how many people abort their children because they have Down's. It really isn't that bad of a disorder, and not all of them are that retarded. I've met people with Down's who are really sweet, good people, and they lived lives that were pretty normal for the most part. If I had Down's I would want to live.
on that note:
it seems to me that kids with downs syndrome are always smiling and seem very happy. perhaps they are immune to the everyday bullshit that life has to offer.
That's a common misconception/stereotype, according to an article I read recently about couples who wanted to adopt children with Down's. However, I myself have only met one person with Down's who was moody. She was a sweet person though.
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in reguards to abortion in general:
i am against them in my own situation. i believe in a person taking responsibility for their actions.
in other peoples situations, i believe that they should have the right to choose for themselves. so i will not sit in judgement over them.
I have the same view.
now, if we can convince you that feminism for equity is ok, but feminism to change who people are is not, then you and i could be like two asPeas in a pod.
Meh. You don't seem to understand my views. I'm not a feminist.
really, i was just very proud of the two asPeas in a pod thingie and i just wanted to work it into conversation.
pretty cool huh?
heh, okay
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That's a common misconception/stereotype, according to an article I read recently about couples who wanted to adopt children with Down's. However, I myself have only met one person with Down's who was moody. She was a sweet person though.
That with children with Down's being happy is just stinking political correctness, like saying that poor blacks and latinos aren't more criminal than middle class white people. That won't solve the problem, just shoving it under the carpet.
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True.
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I'm a little hypocritical. I wouldn't like autistic children to be aborted, postnatal or in utero, but I think it would be better for children with really gross retardation, such as Down's, never to be born. Please don't hate me. I wouldn't like to live, if I had Down's myself.
I think it's sad how many people abort their children because they have Down's. It really isn't that bad of a disorder, and not all of them are that retarded. I've met people with Down's who are really sweet, good people, and they lived lives that were pretty normal for the most part. If I had Down's I would want to live.
on that note:
it seems to me that kids with downs syndrome are always smiling and seem very happy. perhaps they are immune to the everyday bullshit that life has to offer.
That's a common misconception/stereotype, according to an article I read recently about couples who wanted to adopt children with Down's. However, I myself have only met one person with Down's who was moody. She was a sweet person though.
it seems to me was the key phrase.
i have encountered several downs kids, her or there.
they have always seemed to be very happy. with those guge shit eating grins. genuine.
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Postnatal Abortion (Infanticide) has been practiced throughout humanities 250,000 year history.
The REAL question should be: Why has infantacide only recently been called into question.
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Postnatal Abortion (Infanticide) has been practiced throughout humanities 250,000 year history.
The REAL question should be: Why has infantacide only recently been called into question.
population control?
the rich elite have decided that there are already enough slaves. any more would be a burden on their bottom line?
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I've often wished I was born with Down's. This is a horrible thing to say but I thoght about it under the premise that I'd be too dumb to know how badly life sucks, and I'd be happier more of the time.
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I've often wished I was born with Down's. This is a horrible thing to say but I thoght about it under the premise that I'd be too dumb to know how badly life sucks, and I'd be happier more of the time.
It could be worse than being an aspie knowing how life sucks. You could be born just dumb enough to suffer tremendously, but at the same time not dumb enough not to be aware of your stupidity...
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I've often wished I was born with Down's. This is a horrible thing to say but I thoght about it under the premise that I'd be too dumb to know how badly life sucks, and I'd be happier more of the time.
It could be worse than being an aspie knowing how life sucks. You could be born just dumb enough to suffer tremendously, but at the same time not dumb enough not to be aware of your stupidity...
Sometimes it feels like that's about where I am now. :-\ Anyway, it's not a constant wish, but a passing one that surfaces every so often.
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Postnatal Abortion (Infanticide) has been practiced throughout humanities 250,000 year history.
The REAL question should be: Why has infantacide only recently been called into question.
Probably because in most of the world people have access to birth control now so needn't become pregnant if they don't want to for any reason in the first place, access to abortion if they do accidentally become pregnant and standards of living are a hell of a lot better now. All of these reasons mean that people are less likely to find themselves with 10 kids to feed and no money (or not enough crops to do so). Why should a person's life be valued less because they are still an infant?
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........Why should a person's life be valued less because they are still an infant?
Because they have'nt had a substantial amount of resources invested in them yet.
The amount if time, money and effort invested in raising and educating someone has a significant influence on what they're "worth".
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In my view, infants have not yet come far enough to develop the kind of sapient mind that makes them a person - though they are well on their way to, making it neccessary to draw the line somewhere beyond a couple of months when it becomes unclear whether so has occured - and thus are not yet subject to moral conciderations; you could just as well swat a fly.
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I find it is a pretty common sentiment of intelligent people that they occasionally wish they were dumber.
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I find it is a pretty common sentiment of intelligent people that they occasionally wish they were dumber.
:stoned: :eh: :cheese: :eyebrow: :prude: :hide: :blonde: :chicken: :book: :zzz:
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Has there been a trend lately of taking some topics a little too seriously?
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Has there been a trend lately of taking some topics a little too seriously?
Yes and as we all know, seriousness = bad. I mean think about it for a few seconds. Why be serious? No reason whatsoever. It is clearly evil.
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Has there been a trend lately of taking some topics a little too seriously?
or in a different direction.
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Has there been a trend lately of taking some topics a little too seriously?
or in a different direction.
What?? Here on Intensity?? THAT would be a first!! ::)
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(http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1457;type=avatar)
i just aborted a flo.
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What is "A flo"?
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What is "A flo"?
you know what a flo is. i will not go into it as long as i see him continuing to make progress.
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Well I know who flo is, but I do not know what "A flo" is, or characterized by. I especially don't know what you said previously might have caused you to almost do a flo.
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flo in his manic phase is shit.
i am taking a flo (shit).
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Ahh, okay, thank you.
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I do not like abortion, I want to see abortions beyond the first trimester banned, unless in expectational circumstances. Plus policies to have the abortion rate in the first trimester reduced dramatically. Plus a ban of aborting fetuses because they were tested for downs syndrome or autism.
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I am not to serious about being able to abort until age 18. I'll settle for partial birth abortions.
But to simplify matters, I would describe the mother as owning the child, to be done with as she wishes. Mostly I think this, because a single person has greater capacity to make intelligent decisions regarding the future of a life than a whole country. The country wants to be fair, it wants to make catch-all, solve-all policies that ensure the majority is happy, and usually the individual circumstances of the child (parents, economic class level, intelligence, environment, ect, ect) are WAY to fucking complicated to be helped by a giant catch-all policy. On the contrary, they tend to overcomplicate the motherfucker to the point of ruining some lives.
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Any type of Abortion is not a cure all. But it is up to them both if the woman allow the man into it too. To Me it is a Life unborn but a Living Life that would be taken and never known about in the end.
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I do not value life. I don't give a fuck about fetuses. They are just a bundle of reflexes, some rudimentary personality, and a learning mechanism. Until the human gets some experience under its belt(figuratively speaking), i don't really consider it worth anything. You can make a unborn baby using anybodies eggs, and anybodies sperm if you just invest 9 months in it. That is NOTHING special. I don't consider a human worth anything until they have at least a few weeks of experience in them. Preferably a few months.
But my belief is mostly irrelevant. I am not going to get the opportunity to vote "Humans aren't worth anything until a few weeks after birth". I will at most get the opportunity to support a mothers(and fathers, i figured that was a given) right to abort a child up until the baby is all the way out.
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I do not value life. I don't give a fuck about fetuses. They are just a bundle of reflexes, some rudimentary personality, and a learning mechanism. Until the human gets some experience under its belt(figuratively speaking), i don't really consider it worth anything. You can make a unborn baby using anybodies eggs, and anybodies sperm if you just invest 9 months in it. That is NOTHING special. I don't consider a human worth anything until they have at least a few weeks of experience in them. Preferably a few months.
But my belief is mostly irrelevant. I am not going to get the opportunity to vote "Humans aren't worth anything until a few weeks after birth". I will at most get the opportunity to support a mothers(and fathers, i figured that was a given) right to abort a child up until the baby is all the way out.
I would'nt put it so blunt, but that's mostly true :agreed:
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How do We yet learn from the womb onward do We not. Or do We have a Abhorrrencnce to this killing life. Should We kill of the children that are Living then that are 1 or 2 years old too. Should We throw them to the fires too.
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How do We yet learn from the womb onward do We not.
(http://www.dark-sanity.com/1157433297014.gif)
I would be okay with allowing aborting children until they reach a certain stage of intellectual maturity. But it doesn't really matter what I am okay with.
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How do We yet learn from the womb onward do We not.
(http://www.dark-sanity.com/1157433297014.gif)
I would be okay with allowing aborting children until they reach a certain stage of intellectual maturity. But it doesn't really matter what I am okay with.
And what will the World be without Them in the end. I was born in 1963 and what if My Mother would have aborted Me then. Her only son She had. And not allowed Me to growup. What if Your Mother to do the same to You think Of that would You Nomaken. From being unborn to being born We yet learn Life that is the way of Life is it not. You Would in the end are willing to kill off ones with AS because they do do not conform to Your view of Life. Kill it off then would You even Us too.
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If they had aborted you it wouldn't matter because no one would know to miss you. Same goes for me. I would be willing to allow abortion until several years after birth, because I don't consider the experiences of a few days or weeks, or perhaps even years to create that valuable of a human.
Until humans reach a certain stage of intellectual maturity, they are almost incapable of appreciating things like sentience, and freedom, and other abstract concepts, and until a certain stage it wouldn't occur to them to think critically about an issue, or decide to form their own opinion about things, and appreciate that everyone forms their own opinions based on inevitably flawed information, and yet opinions are really the only way that we humans can decide how to shape our world. I consider a human valuable when it can do at least some of those things, or is on the way to developing those abilities.
However just because I would be in favor of allowing aborting people who aren't at that stage, doesn't mean I am in favor of killing them. Passing a law which allows abortion, is not the same as passing a law mandating the deaths of people. I'm sure there would be plenty of parents who would decide not to kill their child even though he has the creativeness and individuality and independant thinking of a grape fruit.
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I do not value life. I don't give a fuck about fetuses. They are just a bundle of reflexes, some rudimentary personality, and a learning mechanism. Until the human gets some experience under its belt(figuratively speaking), i don't really consider it worth anything. You can make a unborn baby using anybodies eggs, and anybodies sperm if you just invest 9 months in it. That is NOTHING special. I don't consider a human worth anything until they have at least a few weeks of experience in them. Preferably a few months.
But my belief is mostly irrelevant. I am not going to get the opportunity to vote "Humans aren't worth anything until a few weeks after birth". I will at most get the opportunity to support a mothers(and fathers, i figured that was a given) right to abort a child up until the baby is all the way out.
But You did say this in the end. What is Life but a investment. You don't give a Fuck for Living Life do You. Giving and takinking Life is nothing is it to You. A year or two what does that child even Yet Know in the end nothing but something for it has even breathe the breath of Life then or have been given that change too. Postnatal even prenatal Abortion are wrong that is what I believe in the end. How do We let Life Live read Job 21:10 then We may yet Know Living and the Dead
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Let me reiterate:
(http://www.dark-sanity.com/1157433297014.gif)
Okay, kevv, I am having a hell of a hard time understanding you, but I am going to try and break it down.
But You did say this in the end. What is Life but a investment.
Life isn't an investment. Life is pointless and meaningless.
You don't give a Fuck for Living Life do You.
Mine? No. Others? Ehh... no not really.
Giving and takinking Life is nothing is it to You.
Right. Giving and taking life means nothing to me.
A year or two what does that child even Yet Know in the end nothing but something for it has even breathe the breath of Life then or have been given that change too.
I have no idea what this means.
Postnatal even prenatal Abortion are wrong that is what I believe in the end.
You are entitled to your opinion.
How do We let Life Live read Job 21:10 then We may yet Know Living and the Dead.
I prefer Fox in Socks to the Bible personally.
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If they had aborted you it wouldn't matter because no one would know to miss you. Same goes for me. I would be willing to allow abortion until several years after birth, because I don't consider the experiences of a few days or weeks, or perhaps even years to create that valuable of a human.
Until humans reach a certain stage of intellectual maturity, they are almost incapable of appreciating things like sentience, and freedom, and other abstract concepts, and until a certain stage it wouldn't occur to them to think critically about an issue, or decide to form their own opinion about things, and appreciate that everyone forms their own opinions based on inevitably flawed information, and yet opinions are really the only way that we humans can decide how to shape our world. I consider a human valuable when it can do at least some of those things, or is on the way to developing those abilities.
However just because I would be in favor of allowing aborting people who aren't at that stage, doesn't mean I am in favor of killing them. Passing a law which allows abortion, is not the same as passing a law mandating the deaths of people. I'm sure there would be plenty of parents who would decide not to kill their child even though he has the creativeness and individuality and independant thinking of a grape fruit.
And How would We have changed the World in the end. How do We allow them to Live in the end that matters to Me Allowing to Live Life is what should matter McJagger and His Wife are allowing that son or daughter are they not. They would allow that child to Live or Die whatever happens happens does it not in the end. Even though they would miss that child even they cared for that child too. Life is Life not a few minutes or many minutes of time Life is Precious no matter what time has been spent learning what Life is in the end. We here have yet learned what Life is should even the unborned or even the Postnatal born too.
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And How would We have changed the World in the end.
There is no way to know. But it is betting foolishly to assume that we would necessarily make the world a better place. Statistically, out of billions of people, a very small percentage of them are the crux of something incredibly good. As do a very small percentage of them do something incredibly bad. There is a huge percentage of people who are pretty much pointless. And another huge percentage of them which do an average amount of good or bad. And how the percentages are depends mostly on how optimisitic you are. I'd have to undertake a SERIOUS study to figure out that shit.
How do We allow them to Live in the end that matters to Me Allowing to Live Life is what should matter.
And you are entitled to that opinion.
McJagger and His Wife are allowing that son or daughter are they not. They would allow that child to Live or Die whatever happens happens does it not in the end. Even though they would miss that child even they cared for that child too.
And that is their decision. They are entitled to their opinion to. Although they couldn't abort their child postnatally even if they wanted to. Legally anyway.
Life is Life not a few minutes or many minutes of time Life is Precious no matter what time has been spent learning what Life is in the end.
And you are entitled to that opinion. I disagree. I think life is worthless. I value other qualities of living creatures besides simply their existence.
We here have yet learned what Life is should even the unborned or even the Postnatal born too.
I have no idea what this means.
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Let me reiterate:
(http://www.dark-sanity.com/1157433297014.gif)
Okay, kevv, I am having a hell of a hard time understanding you, but I am going to try and break it down.
But You did say this in the end. What is Life but a investment.
Life isn't an investment. Life is pointless and meaningless.
You don't give a Fuck for Living Life do You.
Mine? No. Others? Ehh... no not really.
Giving and takinking Life is nothing is it to You.
Right. Giving and taking life means nothing to me.
A year or two what does that child even Yet Know in the end nothing but something for it has even breathe the breath of Life then or have been given that change too.
I have no idea what this means.
Postnatal even prenatal Abortion are wrong that is what I believe in the end.
You are entitled to your opinion.
How do We let Life Live read Job 21:10 then We may yet Know Living and the Dead.
I prefer Fox in Socks to the Bible personally.
Then understand this. You do not care at all. You don't care if You where born or not. I care that I was born even with all the problems I have had in the end. Life is what Life is in the end it is a Investment in Us All. Know matter Who We are in the end. Life is what Life become and what We make Life that is for Us and them. What is is is it not. You live and they do not. You are nothing as I am nothing too. But We All become something together do We Not in the end. It is how We teach each other as Mother, Father. Son, Daughter is it not in the end. For that is the beginnings of learning Life is it not. Life is more Precious is it not. You care for nothing I care for something is that it is the way it going to be in the end?
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Then understand this. You do not care at all. You don't care if You where born or not.
Right. I don't care about something I have no control over.
I care that I was born even with all the problems I have had in the end.
Great. You can appreciate something you have absolutely no control over or influence in if you want to.
But that kind of argument is just silly. Fetuses care no more about their existence than a chicken does. Parents cannot reach into the future and find out the adult preferences of their unborn child. You cannot send information into the past to tell them to have you. If you were aborted you would not exist now to have an opinion about it. And if I was, I would not exist now to argue with you over it. Saying you would be pissed if you were aborted is stupid. You wouldn't be pissed, because you can't. You wouldn't exist to vote abortion illegal, or take umbrage at it being legal.
Life is what Life is in the end it is a Investment in Us All. Know matter Who We are in the end.
Life is a potential investment. But it could be a total waste, or only allow us to break even. Based on the number of children who become millionaires and allow their parents to bask in early retirement compared to the number of children who just make it, and the number of children who are a drain on their parents until their early death, it is foolish to assume that life is inherently a good investment.
Life is what Life become and what We make Life that is for Us and them. What is is is it not. You live and they do not. You are nothing as I am nothing too.
This seems to have no point. So sure.
But We All become something together do We Not in the end.
No, some of us die alone as failures remembered by no one. Others of us become serial killers and ruin other peoples lives, cause them to die alone as failures.
It is how We teach each other as Mother, Father. Son, Daughter is it not in the end.
Is what that?
For that is the beginnings of learning Life is it not.
No, not necessarily.
Life is more Precious is it not.
No. I disagree.
You care for nothing I care for something is that it is the way it going to be in the end?
I didn't say I cared for nothing. I said I don't value life. There are other things in the world besides life.
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And what do you care at all Nomaken?
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About Life or Death then at all.
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I care about the personality and perceptions of lifeforms. I care about their intentions, and what acts they accomplish. I appreciate individualism, creativity, originality, independant thinking, and critical thinking. I care about their happiness. I appreciate curiosity, patience, tolerance, and kindness. I care about their emotions, and what their experiences mean to them. I appreciate those things that mean more to them than life.
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there are exceptions of course; like rape.
my thing about abortion is simple: i am sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. many abortions can simply be avoided by using safe sex.
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I would prefer we create policy which gives people the greatest freedom to make intelligent decisions. See, nobody that gets laid has my outlook on the value of life. If culture hasn't taught them to value life, and enjoy the prospect of raising children, and having a family, then the maternal(or paternal) instinct to have children, and protect their young will have an effect on their decision. There is a lot going for fetuses.
Nobody is out there getting pregnant just to have the evil satisfaction of destroying life with an abortion, also considering they are at a certain risk of death during it.
And perhaps there are a lot of people who are getting pregnant, and then realize they cannot support the child, and wanting to have an abortion. And perhaps they are being irresponsible, but it would be irresponsible of us to not provide her the ability to, because if we force her to have a child she cannot support, we will have likely created a child who will live in poverty, with less than stellar parents. Maybe you would like to make the mother pay for her irresponsibility, but I do not want to make an innocent bystander(the child) suffer because of her stupidity.
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Nobody is out there getting pregnant just to have the evil satisfaction of destroying life with an abortion, also considering they are at a certain risk of death during it.
your right5. but they know that each time they have consentual, unprotected sex that the possibility exist that a pregnancy will occur.
abortion is just too convenint of a way for both the man and the women to shirk their responsibilities of having sex.
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Perhaps it is. But do you feel it is better to punish them? Or punish them and a child(who really had no say in the matter)?
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Perhaps it is. But do you feel it is better to punish them? Or punish them and a child(who really had no say in the matter)?
how can you call it punishment when you are simply asking people to act responsibly
and the unborn child: i guess never having a chance to live isn't a form of punishment.
yes Nomaken, you wish that you would have been aborted, but ask several people the same question and i wonder what they would have to say....
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I can call it punishment because as a consequence of them "acting responsibly" as you call it, they will suffer needlessly.
Never having the chance to live isn't a punishment because they don't exist to know suffering.
I never said that I wished I had been aborted. I know that most people will say they would have prefered to not be aborted because they are looking at it from their point of view, not from the point of view of the unborn child.
And the question is stupid in any event because no persons opinions have any affect on whether they were born or not. They already were born. Of course they're gonna say yes to their own life, because they are inclined to act in self interest, and given that hypothetical(and impossible) situation, they are of course going to say to save their own life.
But if you ask them how they would devise a policy to deal with other fetuses lives, in light of the circumstances of the mother and the environment. It is not so certain they will jump to mandate the fetus live. And this is a question whose answers can actually be applied to the real world. Most likely, if the situation described makes saving the fetus in their own self interest they will be inclined to say fetuses are humans, and if the situation described makes abortion being legal be in their own self interest they will be inclined to say that it is the mothers right to choose.
That is most people. Some others pick one side or the other despite all logic and reason, and even conflict with their own values. And then a select few actually have an independant, original, well thought out opinion on the issue.
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honestly, i quite reading after your opening statement, nomaken.
it read like a lame excuse, so i couldn't be bothered with the rest.
asking someone to show responsibility is NOT punishment. problem is that modern society makes far too many excuses for irresponsible behaviour; relativism. and they also make it too easy for people to shirk their responsibilities.
if people were aware of the secondary effects to their irresponsible behavious, i suspect that people would ACT more responsibly. there are, after all, several reliable birth control devices. use them!
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I guess it would be ok provided you eat the fetus/baby
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I guess it would be ok provided you eat the fetus/baby
Waste not want not.
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
Baby skin is soft. I'd use it for fake vaginas.
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
Baby skin is soft. I'd use it for fake vaginas.
that would be in my head. i couldn't do it.
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
Baby skin is soft. I'd use it for fake vaginas.
that would be in my head. i couldn't do it.
Your head is supposed to be in the 'toy,' not the other way around. Do you need a manual?
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
Baby skin is soft. I'd use it for fake vaginas.
that would be in my head. i couldn't do it.
Your head is supposed to be in the 'toy,' not the other way around. Do you need a manual?
no bigboy.
why don't you come over here and let me show you what i know how to do.
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and use the skin for lampshades, belts and shows?
Baby skin is soft. I'd use it for fake vaginas.
that would be in my head. i couldn't do it.
Your head is supposed to be in the 'toy,' not the other way around. Do you need a manual?
no bigboy.
why don't you come over here and let me show you what i know how to do.
I ain't that cheap dearie.
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i bet you are.
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Postnatal abortion is outright murder.
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Postnatal abortion is outright murder.
No, It's infantacide and there's a difference between murder and infantacide.
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i think they should put old people down.
80 years old is long enough to live on this earth....maybe too long.
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i think they should put old people down.
80 years old is long enough to live on this earth....maybe too long.
I'll bet you will feel differently as you approach 79. :laugh:
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I'm only 36 and feel old already. :(
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i think they should put old people down.
80 years old is long enough to live on this earth....maybe too long.
I'll bet you will feel differently as you approach 79. :laugh:
i doubt that.
i was going to edit my original post to say that i desire to live to be about 70. it wouldn't kill me if i didn't see 71.
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YES IT WOULD.
I wish that my existence had ended when I was supposed to die.
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You have read Dec, haven't you? :P
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Can we Post-natal abort Paris Hilton ??
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Sure. But I wouldn't mind banging her first.
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Ewwwwwww.
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Ewwwwwww.
That sure beats banging her afterwards! ;) :laugh:
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Ewwwwwww.
That sure beats banging her afterwards! ;) :laugh:
Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.
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Ewwwwwww.
That sure beats banging her afterwards! ;) :laugh:
Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.
Seriously, have you tried it?
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Seriously, have you tried it?
Fucking Paris Hilton while she's dead? No.
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Seriously, have you tried it?
Fucking Paris Hilton while she's dead? No.
Rigormortis might improve her technique.
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i'd extract her teeth and fuck her mouth. >:D
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Yes, if, after say 20 years from birth the child is still a fucktard they should be euthanized.
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Shit. They should just give every newborn a
college entrance exam. If they fail, kill the little
bugger.
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I would be willing to allow abortion until several years after birth, because I don't consider the experiences of a few days or weeks, or perhaps even years to create that valuable of a human.
Could I just ask: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? You're talking about killing children here. I think we've found the next Virginia Tech-style nutcase.
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Yes, if, after say 20 years from birth the child is still a fucktard they should be euthanized.
Shit. They should just give every newborn a
college entrance exam. If they fail, kill the little
bugger.
I'm certainly serious,
and I suspect that (from
what I know of Ahayes)
he is as well.
Some of us don't particularly
like humans.
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they could post-nate bush and i wouldn't protest much
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I would be willing to allow abortion until several years after birth, because I don't consider the experiences of a few days or weeks, or perhaps even years to create that valuable of a human.
Could I just ask: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? You're talking about killing children here. I think we've found the next Virginia Tech-style nutcase.
Unsubtle. Shall we rank the trolling and see if the n00b improves? :eyebrows:
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I would be willing to allow abortion until several years after birth, because I don't consider the experiences of a few days or weeks, or perhaps even years to create that valuable of a human.
Could I just ask: ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? You're talking about killing children here. I think we've found the next Virginia Tech-style nutcase.
DEE DEE DEE !!!
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Post-Natal abortion is murder, plain and simple.
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Post-Natal abortion is murder, plain and simple.
Stop sugar-coating it.
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Post-Natal abortion is murder, plain and simple.
No, it's infanticide. There's a difference.
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Post-Natal abortion is murder, plain and simple.
No, it's infanticide. There's a difference.
what is the difference, not living and dead?
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Post-Natal abortion is murder, plain and simple.
No, it's infanticide. There's a difference.
what is the difference, not living and dead?
No, It's the ammount of time invested in them.
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that's like saying there's a difference between murder and homicide.
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that's like saying there's a difference between murder and homicide.
No, there's a practical, real-world difference between killing a newborn and a 30 year old. The newborn can't pay bills, fix the toilet, cook a meal or drive to the next town. Losing a 30 year old is a MUCH greater loss than losing a newborn. Therefore killing a newborn isn't the same thing as killing an adult. :police:
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On the other hand, most adult's lives are
pretty settled, and you know that they're
NOT going to do anything to impressive.
Still, there is definitely a difference.
Plus, as Swift points out, newborns are
tastier. >:D
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that's like saying there's a difference between murder and homicide.
No, there's a practical, real-world difference between killing a newborn and a 30 year old. The newborn can't pay bills, fix the toilet, cook a meal or drive to the next town. Losing a 30 year old is a MUCH greater loss than losing a newborn. Therefore killing a newborn isn't the same thing as killing an adult. :police:
you're 40, can you fix a toilet?
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
can you fix a broken heart?
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
can you fix a broken heart?
That's a software problem. :P
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
can you fix a broken heart?
That's a software problem. :P
can you help with impotency?
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
can you fix a broken heart?
That's a software problem. :P
can you help with impotency?
That's definitely a software problem. :evillaugh:
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I'm 35 and i can fix anything!!! (except software problems)
can you fix a broken heart?
That's a software problem. :P
can you help with impotency?
That's definitely a software problem. :evillaugh:
:laugh: :plus:
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I really wish drewtheyellow (Awesomelyglorious on WP) would've stuck around. :dunno:
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AG is too awesomely glorious for I2. :zoinks:
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Infanticide was a common practice throughout almost all of human history.
It still baffles me why abortion ever became controversial. :dunno: