INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: Charlotte Quin on March 15, 2012, 05:57:30 AM
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Hai. WP is down so I have nowhere to post this :violin: :autism:
Anyhoo, I have this neighbour directly across the driveway from me who has an almost daily habit of getting up at (or is it staying awake until) 4am, going to his bathroom and spending at least 10 minutes making regurgitating/retching/gagging sounds until he vomits. Why do I know all this? Because he's quite noisy during the whole 10-15 minute affair and he leaves his bathroom window wide open for every neighbour to hear/get woken up by. It's disgusting to listen to! :zombiefuck: Vomiting noises have a certain...physiological response in me (ie. they make sick in my own throat).
What can I do about it? I can always close my window so I don't have to hear it, yes, but it gets pretty warm upstairs in my house and I'd like to have fresh air through my window rather than waste electricity turning on my fan. Maybe he has a genuine health issue, or maybe he has a big night on the piss every night, I dunno. I'd put a polite letter under his door or something but if he's ill it might seems a bit careless and ignorant.
What should I do?
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Ask him next time you see him, if he is alright?
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Maybe when you see him later in the day say something like, "I couldn't help overhearing you getting sick this morning at 4AM and I wonder if you are OK?"
Otherwise set an alarm and close your window before 4AM.
My guess is if he's doing this every night he has a health issue.
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Maybe when you see him later in the day say something like, "I couldn't help overhearing you getting sick this morning at 4AM and I wonder if you are OK?"
Otherwise set an alarm and close your window before 4AM.
My guess is if he's doing this every night he has a health issue.
Just no. I draw the line at adjusting my sleep routine around this.
If I could only get him to shut his bathroom window before he gets down to business, but if he's sick and really needs to rush to the bathroom to vomit, courtesy towards the sleeping neighbourhood probably wouldn't be the first thing on his mind. The thing is he's there for 10 minutes trying to make himself vomit. I can't think of any health problems that would explain that besides Bulimia.
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*HHGGGRRRRNNNNGNGGGGGHHHH* *BLLLLEEEAAAAARRRRGGHHHH*!!!!!!!!!
Funny, that is the same gut reaction I have to knowing that WP is up
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*HHGGGRRRRNNNNGNGGGGGHHHH* *BLLLLEEEAAAAARRRRGGHHHH*!!!!!!!!!
Funny, that is the same gut reaction I have to knowing that WP is up
I was just joshin' with my opening line :laugh:. We all know how much people love it when that place is mentioned :zoinks:
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That nun's sort of scary! Where's she from? :green:
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That nun's sort of scary! Where's she from? :green:
It's Sister Ruth from the movie Black Narcissus.
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Thanks! Vaguely heard of that, I'll have to look it up. Since you must like it a lot :include:
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That nun's sort of scary! Where's she from? :green:
It's Sister Ruth from the movie Black Narcissus.
I loved her in that movie. She kind of looked like a pale psychotic version of my aunt.
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Kind of worrying! :lol: :include:
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Maybe when you see him later in the day say something like, "I couldn't help overhearing you getting sick this morning at 4AM and I wonder if you are OK?"
Otherwise set an alarm and close your window before 4AM.
My guess is if he's doing this every night he has a health issue.
I'd forgotten how adorably optimistic Callaway could be.
My first thought, the the OP, is that it's more along the lines of this guy partying way the fuck too hard.
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Haha, this is 5 years later. I can't remember if you said what happened to the guy.
So what happened?
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When we lived in Bangkok about 11 years ago our neighbour (behind us) would make a similar gross noise for about half an hour every morning. It was the house that backed onto ours, and I'm not sure how the noise managed to pentrate the walls in his house, travel the distance between our houses, pentrate our walls and windows (our windows were almost never open) and still be so darn loud.
What happened in our case was that we would laugh about it and spend that time in a part of our house where it wasn't too loud.
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Shortly before I went on maternity leave, I had a coworker a few desks away who was hacking up a lung all day, every day. Think lingering pneumonia, for months on end.
I took to listening to Mongolian throat singing through high quality headphones at high volume on loop, and it still couldn't drown it out. I was being driven slowly nuts, and my friend was encouraging me to disclose ASD to HR so I could get special accommodations for a seat move. I'm still slightly terrified of the stigma though, so I never did.
When I got back from mat leave, he had died.
Never found out what it was, but now I'm glad I didn't go to HR because I'm sure that's the last thing the poor guy needed. Still, I really wish it were socially acceptable to suggest a person in that situation get a desk in a private room, it would have made everybody's lives less miserable. Yesterday I heard a couple other coworkers talking about it and discovered I wasn't the only one who hated the noise. The guy was apparently a talented developer though.
I'm sure I've bitched about this on here before but it had a big impact on me.
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Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter.
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Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter.
After the acquisition a couple years ago, my new company transformed the office building into open space. Didn't think I would like it but have adapted to it very. Though they're pretty smart about grouping cross functional teams, quiet workers, and people who need to talk more. Can't pick my nose or fart anymore, but really like my space.
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Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter.
After the acquisition a couple years ago, my new company transformed the office building into open space. Didn't think I would like it but have adapted to it very. Though they're pretty smart about grouping cross functional teams, quiet workers, and people who need to talk more. Can't pick my nose or fart anymore, but really like my space.
I've never liked open office spaces. Too noisy. My noise-cancelling headphones are a necessity.
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Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter.
After the acquisition a couple years ago, my new company transformed the office building into open space. Didn't think I would like it but have adapted to it very. Though they're pretty smart about grouping cross functional teams, quiet workers, and people who need to talk more. Can't pick my nose or fart anymore, but really like my space.
I've never liked open office spaces. Too noisy. My noise-cancelling headphones are a necessity.
While not being in the office all the time and using headphones when you do, either of those things means you don't have the opportunity to adapt or know for certain if you even could. Never had to do it before, so just assumed it would be bad. Though I also do sit in a grouping of quiet workers. Each of the workspaces have two large monitors, except for a few who instead prefer one extremely large monitor. Thinking the monitor situation helped a lot with the transition. Am somewhat short so sit with my chair low and monitors high; it takes up almost my entire field of vision. Everything else just disappears; sound, movements, it's like I"m alone in the room. Will admit it wasn't so easy at first. Don't think it was the noise, as much as it was new noises. Have noticed it's annoying for a few weeks when someone new is seated nearby, until my brain adjusts to tuning them out along with everyone else. It seems a normal adaptation. People have to snap me out of my thoughts for me to notice they exist and they're speaking to me, and i have to do that to other people too.
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I hate having direct line of sight to the people around me, even if we work together- and my company keeps being stupid about the layout and separating me from the people I work most closely with. We have three monitors but I still never get the physical relaxation that would happen if I were in a cube.
For my particular noise issues, loud ambient noise is better than a grouping with quiet people, because it drowns out better the type of sudden sporadic repetitive noises that drive me insane. But walls are better still. That said, I also do better in an open space than a shared office with two or three, if one of those two or three is a source of trigger noise.
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I was a cubicle dweller back in the 90s.
What I found amazing was that some people seemed to believe that because nobody could see them, then nobody could hear them. So you had people who would slurp their drinks and make a horrendous racket chewing with their mouths open. Sniffing loudly and constantly or grunting like hogs. Throat clearing and hawking. Some people you didn't have to look, you knew if they were in their cubicle or not according to whether the constant stream of gross noise was present or not. Walkmans were a lifesaver, for those not murdered by the walkman users.
Even in 2011 I was working in a kind of hybrid environment, part open plan, like larger cubicles for 3 or 4 people. One team had this really nice young guy who sniffed and cleared his throat constantly. They kicked him out of their cubicle and into a spare one so he could annoy other people, including me.
Open plan offices seem to keep at least some people more civilized. Like they become aware that there are other humans present.
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That's a good point actually. I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles. I wish I'd witnessed someone getting kicked out for noise though, I would have felt less guilty for being bothered by that kind of thing.
I was in one of those hybrid 4-person mega cubicles for a while too. I found it better than open plan due to limited line of sight issues.
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One time I completely lost my shit at work and yelled at a woman in another department who was always chatting and laughing on the other side of the cube walls. Told my boss I didn't even think it was a noise sensitivity, because when I first started I sat across the aisle from a guy who worked on the phone all day and it never bothered me; in fact I probably learned from him by osmosis. Then after that I sat in a cube which was next to a hub spot with the ladies restroom, the coffee pot, and a giant copier that sounded like a boat running, and I was fine there. It was the constant unnecessary chatting along with a nervous habbit of laughing after everything she said. It wasn't even real laughter, but rather a beavis/butthead style hur hur hur. I was embarrassed about my reaction, but she never ever ever shut up. Bla bla hur hur hur. I was the one that was moved. Then after I moved my department became the noisy one, and a few months later my boss moved me back because she was getting complaints and she was also irritated people were goofing off too much. She never spoke to anyone other than me about it, just stuck me back in the middle of them. Told my husband, my boss is using me as psychological warfare. :laugh:
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
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You know how there are these "office re-orgs" and they just seem to involve shuffling people around? I worked with one guy back in the 90s, he got made team lead (not my team) and the first thing he did was to shuffle everyone's spots so the people who made gross noises were as far as possible from him. He was telling me how his team were asking him why they had to move around and he couldn't tell them.
It happens more than you'd realize but nobody ever says "listen buddy, we like you, it's not personal so please don't take it that way. But you know how you make that sound like you're trying to eat a bowl of lumpy custard through your nose? Well, we're kicking you out of our cubicle.".
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Have never dealt with loud gross noises, so not sure how that would play out. There was once a guy on the other side of my cube wall who frequently sucked his sinuses, and it made a teeny oink sound in the back of his throat. It wasn't very loud though, and it seemed like a tic he probably couldn't help. In my first job after moving to this state, there were two single user restrooms in the front section of offices which were only used by a few people. My office was right next to them and I listened to a co-worker barf her lunch each day for three years. It wasn't very loud though, and it seemed like something she probably couldn't help. Never said anything about either of them.
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When you are sensitive to certain gross noises, they seem really loud even when not.
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Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter.
After the acquisition a couple years ago, my new company transformed the office building into open space. Didn't think I would like it but have adapted to it very. Though they're pretty smart about grouping cross functional teams, quiet workers, and people who need to talk more. Can't pick my nose or fart anymore, but really like my space.
I've never liked open office spaces. Too noisy. My noise-cancelling headphones are a necessity.
While not being in the office all the time and using headphones when you do, either of those things means you don't have the opportunity to adapt or know for certain if you even could. Never had to do it before, so just assumed it would be bad. Though I also do sit in a grouping of quiet workers. Each of the workspaces have two large monitors, except for a few who instead prefer one extremely large monitor. Thinking the monitor situation helped a lot with the transition. Am somewhat short so sit with my chair low and monitors high; it takes up almost my entire field of vision. Everything else just disappears; sound, movements, it's like I"m alone in the room. Will admit it wasn't so easy at first. Don't think it was the noise, as much as it was new noises. Have noticed it's annoying for a few weeks when someone new is seated nearby, until my brain adjusts to tuning them out along with everyone else. It seems a normal adaptation. People have to snap me out of my thoughts for me to notice they exist and they're speaking to me, and i have to do that to other people too.
Having been a contractor for years, I had to live with open spaces long before I had the NC headphones. I never got used to them, never could fully adapt. Although some office layouts are better than others and some people are easier to work with than others.
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
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When you are sensitive to certain gross noises, they seem really loud even when not.
QFT
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
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When you are sensitive to certain gross noises, they seem really loud even when not.
It might also be a factor of frequency combined with duration. Someone who coughs or sniffles for a couple of weeks from a cold gets better. Someone who barfs once per day for years is only disruptive once per day. Jack sneezes each day within the first fifteen minutes in the office, but that's it. Will admit the throat tic guy was pretty annoying, but very different than people who are simply inconsiderate.
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People with gross habits can often break those gross habits if they want to. Or they don't think it's gross. Or they know it's gross and they do it as a kind of "fuck you".
Some people make 10 times more noise on their best day with their throats and sinuses than I do on my worst day of the heaviest cold. There is medication you can take that dries up your sinuses and it works. There's allergy medication that works. There are tissues you can buy, or you can steal a roll of toilet paper. Some people sniff because they don't want to waste any of their Bolivian marching powder (Yes, I have worked with people like that),
Being noisily and obviously sick is also a kind of virtue signalling. A way of letting people know how much of a hero you are for coming to work.
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That's hilarious, virtue signalling. Never thought of it that way. Maybe because people complain about sick people at work infecting everyone else. Rarely get sick, so don't personally care either way. The rest seems kind of presumptuous. Some people do have genuine tics and compulsions, and sure some people probably do have bad habits or are simply inconsiderate, but it doesn't seem correct to assume that's all there is to it. It's equally unfair to assume people bothered by it should be able to get over it. Maybe just have never known anyone intentionally gross all the time like that, so it's hard to imagine someone who would be. My throat makes a small squeak when I swallow liquid; there's absolutely nothing I can do to prevent it. Husband says it's not noticeable, and only sounds loud in my head, but honestly don't know if it has ever annoyed anyone else. My jaw also clicks; for years it was unavoidable, but since about thirty my jaw has moved back closer to it's original position, and I have learned to chew in a way which mostly avoids the sound and accompanying pain, but only mostly. Noisy eating and drinking is personally annoying, so it's been a longtime concern of bothering other people. It made me a closet eater, which aids disordered eating of multiple types. Mother is seemingly allergic to the planet, her entire life in a constant state of clogged and often infected regardless the season or climate lived. While medication offers a small level of relief, nothing has ever actually worked. If anyone ever said she has gross habits which she doesn't want or care to break, would definitely tell them fuck you. She'll try anything. :laugh:
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One of the shitty family dynamics I grew up with was the war of my sensory sensitivities against my brother's tics.
Separation is the only thing that works in adulthood. I do think in retrospect that if the family had drastically reduced ambient anxiety (sourced from stuff unrelated to noise and tics), my brain and possibly his might not have gotten so burned into maladaptive coping.
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I just read the first post of this thread. Retching and gagging fits are part of my daily routine, because teeth brushing is a real challenge for me. There's no reason to open the bathroom window, so I don't share that with the neighborhood. It's such a normal thing for me, I don't even usually notice I'm doing it unless someone mentions it. Sugarbutt might say, rough one this morning? I'll say, huh? He'll say, brushing your teeth. I'll say, I didn't notice. He'll say, well it sounded pretty serious. :lol1: Fortunately for me, my family finds my sensitive gag reflex hilarious, and they've been known to do things to purposely trigger it. :hahaha:
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I used to work with a guy about 23 years ago. His name was Stanley. Funny how I remember his name now.
He had a bit of an issue. He used to grunt, like really loud grunts that reverberated through the office. Constantly. I thought it was funny, it was a gross noise but it didn't "trigger" me like some noises do. But it triggered a few other people. I just found it amazing someone would come to work and sit in their cubicle and grunt like a hog all day. Every day. Initially I didn't know his name, only knew him from the grunting so I started referring to him as "grunter" and the name stuck.
A girl at work had to work with him and she couldn't remember his name, kept almost calling him "grunter" as that had become the poor guy's nickname (never used in his presence) and that was all she knew him as. People asked him why he did it and he said that he always felt like he had something stuck in the back of his throat. Eventually he did stop doing it.
Around the same time I signed up for a Thai cooking course with a friend. It was great, once a week for 2 or 3 months, and we learned how to make some really awesome food. There was a lady attending the course, she was an immigrant who was maybe early middle age. She didn't have to pay for the course or contribute for ingredients, I am not sure if it was a requirement for using the community centre or if someone was paying for her. She was apparently there because a counselor thought she needed some social contact, she felt really disconnected in Australia. You can probably guess how this is going to turn out. Well it became pretty obvious why she had trouble making friends. She would pick her nose when she thought nobody was watching. She would sniffle and wipe her nose with the palm of her hand while she was preparing food. She would cough vigorously as a result of the sniffling and not cover her mouth nor even turn away while she was helping prepare food, just constantly cough and splutter over the food. For the first 2 or 3 weeks the teacher would assign us into groups, and nobody would eat whatever food her group prepared. Seriously. As the course went on the teacher let us form our own groups and each group would block her from working with them. A wall of bodies would magically form if she tried to go near any food. One time I was preparing the broth component of a soup, and I had some stringy stuff that I had to tie into knots and then drop in the soup (it would disintegrate if not tied) while another group prepared some meatballs to go into the soup and other groups prepared other stuff for the meal. The other groups would move around if they saw her come near them and block her from going near their food, and she spotted me working by myself and came over to help me. I felt awful about it but if I let her touch the food I was working on then that was 2 or 3 teams' effort wasted, so I kept my fat arse between her and the food. Considering that she was clearly in a fragile mental state to begin with, I can't imagine the damage done by the way she was treated week after week. But there seems to be this unspoken social rule that no matter how gross someone is, you can't mention it. The soup was awesome, by the way. No unexpected flavours.
I have a friend I have mentioned before. He snorts and wipes his nose with his hand, then wipes his hand on his trousers (leaving a visible snail trail on his trousers if they are dark). He also never washes his hands when he goes to the toilet, not once in the 43 years I have known him. But he really hates that I consider him so gross that I won't shake his hand unless I can cover my hand with something. So he tries to stick his fingers in my mouth. Literally. He knows I could break him in half but he also knows I detest violence so he is safe (ish). That's the thing, people don't like being made to feel as if they are gross. If people make "trigger" noises around me I will look at them, kind of cringe, shudder, furrow my brow, maybe look a bit grossed out, and if they notice that then they either try to cut down on the grossness, don't care, or they go out of their way to make me pay for daring to have that reaction. Now the number of people who would do the latter is 2 or 3 out of many jobs and maybe a thousand or more people that I have shared office space with over the course of 36 years, so it's not an everyday thing, and not something that I would expect a person without such triggers to notice.
Yes, of course the idea that some (notice I said some, not all) people with gross habits could stop if they wanted to, but they are either not aware or they just don't care, is presumptuous. Because I don't know what is going on in their heads. Not quite the same thing, but I have a friend who crunches his food so loudly you can literally hear him from the street when he is on the sofa watching TV, eating corn chips. With my dodgy hearing. Through his double brick walls. He also shoves huge amounts of food into his mouth and tries to carry on a conversation at the same time. One time years ago he phoned me and I could barely understand him, it sounded like he had a tennis ball in his mouth, and I asked him "are you eating?". He said "yeah, I just got home with a burger and thought I'd call you so I'd have something to do while I eat it". I asked him if people at work complain and he said they do. I pointed out that if people complain then it's really bad, we have people at work who eat loudly and nobody says anything. I asked him if the people at the office across the street complain as well. And yet he eats as quietly as a church mouse if he is with his girlfriend. Otherwise he just doesn't give a toss.
A lot of it is cultural as well, so if you work a lot with people from certain cultural backgrounds you will notice this stuff more. I worked in one country where there was a bathroom for our office with one wash basin to wash your hands in, but I never saw anyone wash their hands. Ever. Ones and Twos. Never. At first I thought that was kinda gross, but then I realized that the actual purpose of the wash basin was for ejecting stuff from one's sinuses into. I would like make a bundle of paper so that I could touch the taps (yes, there was stuff stuck to the taps) and wash my hands but I just gave up on that and took to washing my hands once a day at home (just for the 3 months I was on that project).
If you are triggered by certain noises then you will notice stuff. Like how someone will sit in a corner and make occasional gross noises, but the frequency and volume will go right up if there are other people around. Or if they are sitting in a meeting.
I've got lots more stories about gross people. Stuff that triggers me I never forget. But that's enough for one day.
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
It shouldn't be about location and appearances, it should be about delivery and productivity.
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
It shouldn't be about location and appearances, it should be about delivery and productivity.
But it is about delivery and productivity. It's as if you might be thinking everyone is like you, when you're probably a rarity. You said: "Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter." For the reasons I've discussed, I can understand how an open office would increase productivity for the vast majority of people, as well as foster a work culture where employees are less hostile and behave more professionally. Would absolutely prefer a cube or office if given the choice, but it's certainly not beyond me why I don't have one.
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Some people are more productive when left alone with as few distractions as possible. Most people work better in a team environment where team members are relying on other team members to get stuff done. In my job, for example, I'm most productive where I'm putting together workflow diagrams and user stories and acceptance criteria as soon as a new piece of work hits the table, then I'm handing that over to the dev team, then I'm helping the test team put test cases together in parallel with that work, then helping out with the testing and reviewing the testing, all the while clarifying stuff as required.
Working from home is problematic, about 50% of people get more done and the other 50% maybe log on once or twice to check their emails. So you end up with resentment if you allow that to continue, and you end up with more resentment if you allow some to work from home and some not to, and you end up with a lot of extra stress and workload for the team lead.
When I had a team of developers working for me a few years back and I was a kind of tech lead / business analyst at the same time, and the team was awesome and most of them were smarter than me, I'd be feeling really guilty about not having work for some of them. Because I'd gone overnight from trying to do the work of about 5 people by myself to having 9 people working with me and relying on me for guidance. So I'd find something for them and they'd be really happy. The thing is, some of the guys would spend weeks with nothing to do and they would look just as busy as when they were churning through work. Looking busy and productive is a kind of performance art.
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The biggest change noticed with an open office, it that it dissolved the separation between management and their teams. Instead of being tucked away in offices, they're mixed in with everyone else and given the same workspaces. The VPs who still have offices were moved to the smallest spaces, while all of the large offices were converted into more conference rooms, collaborative spaces, or quiet rooms with comfy seats people can use to step away for a private phone call. Those spaces are all heavily used. Can see how removing that physical barrier and visual hierarchy could have a positive affect on how people feel and think about their managers.
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
It shouldn't be about location and appearances, it should be about delivery and productivity.
But it is about delivery and productivity. It's as if you might be thinking everyone is like you, when you're probably a rarity. You said: "Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter." For the reasons I've discussed, I can understand how an open office would increase productivity for the vast majority of people, as well as foster a work culture where employees are less hostile and behave more professionally. Would absolutely prefer a cube or office if given the choice, but it's certainly not beyond me why I don't have one.
I don't understand why open spaces would increase productivity for the vast majority, sorry - you've not convinced me. I can see how it fosters an *appearance* of productivity but that's not the same thing.
I dunno. Maybe it's a cultural thing, too.
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Looking busy and productive is a kind of performance art.
QFT
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I don't understand why open spaces would increase productivity for the vast majority, sorry - you've not convinced me. I can see how it fosters an *appearance* of productivity but that's not the same thing.
I dunno. Maybe it's a cultural thing, too.
The cultural thing is USA business culture needlessly glorifying extroversion.
In my open office they're busy attempting to introduce "quiet hours" where you're not allowed to book meetings or pester anyone, ironically. ::)
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
It shouldn't be about location and appearances, it should be about delivery and productivity.
But it is about delivery and productivity. It's as if you might be thinking everyone is like you, when you're probably a rarity. You said: "Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter." For the reasons I've discussed, I can understand how an open office would increase productivity for the vast majority of people, as well as foster a work culture where employees are less hostile and behave more professionally. Would absolutely prefer a cube or office if given the choice, but it's certainly not beyond me why I don't have one.
I don't understand why open spaces would increase productivity for the vast majority, sorry - you've not convinced me. I can see how it fosters an *appearance* of productivity but that's not the same thing.
I dunno. Maybe it's a cultural thing, too.
Not really trying to convince you. Let's say for the sake of argument it's not more productive. There was actually a study which showed it it's not more productive, referenced by countless articles. Was hoping someone would bring it up, but oh well. Also saw a study out there which compares open office, cubicle and office, which concludes cubicle workers are the most productive. There's also a study which shows cubicle workers are the most unhappy and dissatisfied with their workspace. There's probably a reason cubes are compared to prison cells. It should be about productivity, sure, and also other things.
Looking busy and productive is a kind of performance art.
QFT
Guess all those people who I used to frequently see playing on their phones or browsing facebook will have to learn that art. Good.
One reason I'm looking forward to moving to the new facility is because it will be open office. If there were cubes, then only certain people would have the luxury of the views and natural lighting, and I'd be ticked if I didn't get one. When I was switched to open office, I had a window cube. It was a status symbol like the offices, and if being honest, that's the main reason I sneered at the change; I lost my special treatment. Whoopty doo. My losing it probably eased tensions around me.
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The cultural thing is USA business culture needlessly glorifying extroversion.
I haven't worked in the USA, but that is a good observation.
That expectation of extroversion and sociability has spread to other parts of the world. It is very noticeable in IT, where extroversion and sociability used to be rare.
I bumped into someone I knew on the train a while ago. She was telling me about how her company had hired a bunch of trainee actuaries. HR got into the process and said that they couldn't hire people that fit the introverted stereotype, they had to hire people who were a good "cultural fit". So they hired some really smart graduates, and made sure that all of them were well presented and had great social media profiles and were extroverts with very active social lives, kids who wanted to travel and have fun and great experiences.
Then they stuck them all in workstations and got them to look at spreadsheets and numbers 8 hours a day. And they hated it, most of them left and got more interactive jobs.
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I hadn't noticed whether people were inherently less considerate overall when they were in cubicles.
Thinking an open office inspires people to at least look busy, and that means they're probably also more quiet. Notice now it's much less common to walk up to someone and find them looking at their phone.
But that's just it. You want the appearance of looking busy which often defeats the purpose. A lot of my work I spend thinking rather than hacking away at the keyboard, but to other people it will look like I'm just staring or drawing faces or browsing distractedly, none of which is what people expect from someone busy working.
I always had a feeling that managers prefer open spaces because they can keep tabs on people.
Have always had jobs which require some level of contemplative screen staring, so sitting quietly staring at a screen with work on it seems sufficient to appearing busy. Though do think it's good an open office makes people more aware of appearances. Those people who frequently show up late, leave early, take long lunches, or don't show up at all, feel more exposed. Although they were probably highly noticed anyway even with walls and quietly ticking off their peers. People are more likely to be in their seats when they're supposed to, and that can ease underlying hostilities. People are less likely to dress like slobs, eat smelly food at their desk, or bring their kids into the office; again underlying hostilities. My boss seems to care about appearances. She doesn't come right out and say it, but have the impression she prefers us in our seats, to avoid work from home days, to take our machines home each day even when on vacation. Am happy to put on whatever appearances she wants me to.
It shouldn't be about location and appearances, it should be about delivery and productivity.
But it is about delivery and productivity. It's as if you might be thinking everyone is like you, when you're probably a rarity. You said: "Why companies insist that people sit in open spaces trying to work is beyond me. Yeah, I know, it's cheaper but I'd think the loss in productivity would matter." For the reasons I've discussed, I can understand how an open office would increase productivity for the vast majority of people, as well as foster a work culture where employees are less hostile and behave more professionally. Would absolutely prefer a cube or office if given the choice, but it's certainly not beyond me why I don't have one.
I don't understand why open spaces would increase productivity for the vast majority, sorry - you've not convinced me. I can see how it fosters an *appearance* of productivity but that's not the same thing.
I dunno. Maybe it's a cultural thing, too.
Not really trying to convince you. Let's say for the sake of argument it's not more productive. There was actually a study which showed it it's not more productive, referenced by countless articles. Was hoping someone would bring it up, but oh well. Also saw a study out there which compares open office, cubicle and office, which concludes cubicle workers are the most productive. There's also a study which shows cubicle workers are the most unhappy and dissatisfied with their workspace. There's probably a reason cubes are compared to prison cells. It should be about productivity, sure, and also other things.
Looking busy and productive is a kind of performance art.
QFT
Guess all those people who I used to frequently see playing on their phones or browsing facebook will have to learn that art. Good.
One reason I'm looking forward to moving to the new facility is because it will be open office. If there were cubes, then only certain people would have the luxury of the views and natural lighting, and I'd be ticked if I didn't get one. When I was switched to open office, I had a window cube. It was a status symbol like the offices, and if being honest, that's the main reason I sneered at the change; I lost my special treatment. Whoopty doo. My losing it probably eased tensions around me.
Sometimes I beat around the bush because it's conducive to conversation, but am growing a little tired of this one, so will get to the point. Not willing to concede it's generally better for people to be shut away in boxes with maximum productivity being the number one thing a company cares about them. Though will concede open offices are likely not the most productive working environments. Am also wanting you to concede it's not only about productivity; your office made you feel important, and working from home makes your absences feel more exposed.
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Sometimes I beat around the bush because it's conducive to conversation, but am growing a little tired of this one, so will get to the point. Not willing to concede it's generally better for people to be shut away in boxes with maximum productivity being the number one thing a company cares about them. Though will concede open offices are likely not the most productive working environments. Am also wanting you to concede it's not only about productivity; your office made you feel important, and working from home makes your absences feel more exposed.
Honestly, I can't recall my office ever making me feel more important. When I first started out as a contractor working for this huge company (that shall remain nameless here) everyone got their own offices as a matter of policy. Us contractors were moved around some over the years but only once did they put some of us in the same room, and that happened mostly because the company was expanding and the building was being renovated.
Later, when I stopped being an independent contractor, every employer I had would either give me my own room or have me share one with one more person, usually the former. Only when working on-site for a client did I have to share open office space, which made sense since most contractors would not be on-site for long anyway.
Only when I started working in the UK did I end up in an open office space. In that office, all Content Architecture desks were hot desks, meaning that whoever got in first in the morning got to pick the best spot. I always made sure to be in the office by 7.30 AM or so, knowing that most of my colleagues lived at least an hour's commute, by train and on the tube, from the city and so wouldn't be in until some time after 8. I'd get a desk at the window, not because of the view (other office buildings really aren't that exciting after the first few looks) but because of fewer distractions.
Of course, I'd still work remotely a lot of the time, as would many other team members. The company was truly global so we had people all over the UK, some EU countries and the US, and everything was designed to allow for remote workers. It worked quite well. My productivity would go down when in the office because of the many distractions but OTOH, we had a great team and it was good to see them. Well, those on-site.
My current employer in Denmark is the first I've had to have me sit in an open office space. I have my own spot next to others in my team, which doesn't really make sense since we don't actually share all that much work. I work from home most of the time, which is a lot more effective for me. The problem is that the company isn't really used to remote workers and so a lot of the infrastructure isn't in place, nor is the mindset.
Comparing the Danish and UK offices to what I've had before, those open spaces do not make much sense to me. What I had before didn't make me feel more important, it just made me more productive.
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When you work in a cubicle or private office there are these things called private conversations. You wanna talk to Fred, you gotta visit Fred's cubicle. In an open plan office there is no private conversation.
I am more distracted by auditory stuff than visual. Prefer open plan offices or ideally a soundproof room.
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I had one batshit crazy boss who made me work 70+ hours a week and broke all promises of time in lieu and pay increases. He made everyone work in a sweatshop setup along both sides of a long bench. He used to sneak up behind me and try to catch me not working but he was a noisy old buzzard. When I heard him coming I would start browsing job ads until he gave up watching me, then I would get back to work.
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When you work in a cubicle or private office there are these things called private conversations. You wanna talk to Fred, you gotta visit Fred's cubicle. In an open plan office there is no private conversation.
I am more distracted by auditory stuff than visual. Prefer open plan offices or ideally a soundproof room.
In an office, sure, but was always acutely aware there's no such thing as a private conversation in a cubicle. Not sure if visual or sound is more distracting. Probably both do, and the greater is the more noticed. Used to think it was visual because when having an office, had to keep the bottom portion of my blinds closed to block out the motion of passing traffic even though it wasn't very close, and the motion of people passing by the doorway bothered me. The fact noise once bothered me enough to behave completely out of character shows it may bother me more than I realize. While it's not good for a lot of people, an artificially lit soulless box is quite comfortable for me. Though have been in a cube or office for a long time, so that doesn't mean being out of a box hasn't been positive for my mental wellbeing. A lot of changes have been positive for that in the last year, so it's difficult to say.
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Sometimes I beat around the bush because it's conducive to conversation, but am growing a little tired of this one, so will get to the point. Not willing to concede it's generally better for people to be shut away in boxes with maximum productivity being the number one thing a company cares about them. Though will concede open offices are likely not the most productive working environments. Am also wanting you to concede it's not only about productivity; your office made you feel important, and working from home makes your absences feel more exposed.
Honestly, I can't recall my office ever making me feel more important. When I first started out as a contractor working for this huge company (that shall remain nameless here) everyone got their own offices as a matter of policy. Us contractors were moved around some over the years but only once did they put some of us in the same room, and that happened mostly because the company was expanding and the building was being renovated.
Later, when I stopped being an independent contractor, every employer I had would either give me my own room or have me share one with one more person, usually the former. Only when working on-site for a client did I have to share open office space, which made sense since most contractors would not be on-site for long anyway.
Only when I started working in the UK did I end up in an open office space. In that office, all Content Architecture desks were hot desks, meaning that whoever got in first in the morning got to pick the best spot. I always made sure to be in the office by 7.30 AM or so, knowing that most of my colleagues lived at least an hour's commute, by train and on the tube, from the city and so wouldn't be in until some time after 8. I'd get a desk at the window, not because of the view (other office buildings really aren't that exciting after the first few looks) but because of fewer distractions.
Of course, I'd still work remotely a lot of the time, as would many other team members. The company was truly global so we had people all over the UK, some EU countries and the US, and everything was designed to allow for remote workers. It worked quite well. My productivity would go down when in the office because of the many distractions but OTOH, we had a great team and it was good to see them. Well, those on-site.
My current employer in Denmark is the first I've had to have me sit in an open office space. I have my own spot next to others in my team, which doesn't really make sense since we don't actually share all that much work. I work from home most of the time, which is a lot more effective for me. The problem is that the company isn't really used to remote workers and so a lot of the infrastructure isn't in place, nor is the mindset.
Comparing the Danish and UK offices to what I've had before, those open spaces do not make much sense to me. What I had before didn't make me feel more important, it just made me more productive.
Was under the impression your current employer switched you to open office, not only losing a confined space but also losing a designated space. Offices are in fact status symbols. Managers completely crapped their pants about losing their offices. It was interesting to watch, but not watching them crapping their pants per se . What was interesting was that I saw blatant gibes coming from the new company's managers who were already accustomed to open office, directed at the acquired managers who were losing their offices. Managers protested with countless logical sounding reasons why they absolutely needed walls, but never once heard one say those walls make them feel valued above people who don't have them, although I think the other managers knew.
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
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In an office, sure, but was always acutely aware there's no such thing as a private conversation in a cubicle.
I mean that in an open office if I want to ask Fred who he thinks should be dropped from the Australian cricket team to make way for Glenn Maxwell, in an open office I just say "Hey Fred..." and this draws in anyone within earshot. While in a cubicle I have to walk around to Fred's cubicle and ask. If someone else hears and wants to join the conversation then they can walk around as well.
An open office has a "vibe" that you can feel. Friday afternoons have almost a party vibe. Monday mornings have a "not this shit again" vibe. Cubicles don't have that so much.
Just my experience, yours may differ.
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
That's awful. Nothing has ever been taken of mine, and don't hear of it from others. Have nice metal rulers and years ago one came up missing so bought a new one. About a year later, found it in some paperwork when cleaning and felt like a total ass for assuming it was taken. Another time my keyboard came up missing, but it was when I was training my replacements so I didn't have a designated workspace of my own, and my things were sitting off to the side looking abandoned. It was returned because it was part of a wireless keyboard and mouse set; the usb was in my machine so it wouldn't work for anyone else anyway. People tend to borrow chairs from the conference rooms instead of people. There's plenty of them and they're a different color, so people put them back too.
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In an office, sure, but was always acutely aware there's no such thing as a private conversation in a cubicle.
I mean that in an open office if I want to ask Fred who he thinks should be dropped from the Australian cricket team to make way for Glenn Maxwell, in an open office I just say "Hey Fred..." and this draws in anyone within earshot. While in a cubicle I have to walk around to Fred's cubicle and ask. If someone else hears and wants to join the conversation then they can walk around as well.
An open office has a "vibe" that you can feel. Friday afternoons have almost a party vibe. Monday mornings have a "not this shit again" vibe. Cubicles don't have that so much.
Just my experience, yours may differ.
Ah, I see. Yes the vibe thing is different, but because of circumstances. The change came with an acquisition in which people were relocated here. Thinking upper management knew there would be an us vs them problem, so in order to unify us, they upset everyone instead of making the acquired employees be the only ones who have to conform. We were only turned on our ear culturally and overworked, crammed into the crappier parts of the building to make room for an invading swarm of millennials since the young were the ones willing to move, however they were the ones who had to uproot their lives and change to conform to our systems and processes. The first year, the vibe was frustration, but they keep shaking us up and it will be at least a year before they're done shaking us up, so right now the vibe is probably more fear. Now that I actually have time to think about it, I notice there's a lot of psychology behind what's been happening. The new building will definitely change things even more to further solidarity and overall sense of equality. Maybe I'll have different things to say about it a couple years from now, but right now there's probably no one who feels settled enough to feel comfortable being a problem, so it's kind of nice. :laugh:
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
That's awful. Nothing has ever been taken of mine, and don't hear of it from others. Have nice metal rulers and years ago one came up missing so bought a new one. About a year later, found it in some paperwork when cleaning and felt like a total ass for assuming it was taken. Another time my keyboard came up missing, but it was when I was training my replacements so I didn't have a designated workspace of my own, and my things were sitting off to the side looking abandoned. It was returned because it was part of a wireless keyboard and mouse set; the usb was in my machine so it wouldn't work for anyone else anyway. People tend to borrow chairs from the conference rooms instead of people. There's plenty of them and they're a different color, so people put them back too.
Office chairs going missing are the worst. Some of the chairs in the office are old and worn out, and I always seemed to get those. Or this one time, those weird ergonomic ones that only a few people can actually sit on for more than a minute or so.
In the UK, good keyboards were the real commodity. The hot desk system made it really difficult to track everything but there were always some desks that nobody wanted to use. People would even borrow desks on other floors if too many people decided to work in the office rather than remotely.
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
That's awful. Nothing has ever been taken of mine, and don't hear of it from others. Have nice metal rulers and years ago one came up missing so bought a new one. About a year later, found it in some paperwork when cleaning and felt like a total ass for assuming it was taken. Another time my keyboard came up missing, but it was when I was training my replacements so I didn't have a designated workspace of my own, and my things were sitting off to the side looking abandoned. It was returned because it was part of a wireless keyboard and mouse set; the usb was in my machine so it wouldn't work for anyone else anyway. People tend to borrow chairs from the conference rooms instead of people. There's plenty of them and they're a different color, so people put them back too.
Office chairs going missing are the worst. Some of the chairs in the office are old and worn out, and I always seemed to get those. Or this one time, those weird ergonomic ones that only a few people can actually sit on for more than a minute or so.
In the UK, good keyboards were the real commodity. The hot desk system made it really difficult to track everything but there were always some desks that nobody wanted to use. People would even borrow desks on other floors if too many people decided to work in the office rather than remotely.
Have really come to appreciate being with a company which values uniformity of equipment. It equates to equality, and frankly looks much nicer. It was sometimes a sore spot with my previous company, people complaining about others having nicer things. One time a team member who had back problems requested and received a new chair, which prompted half the department to crybaby want a new chair. Was offered a new chair even though not asking for one, but declined. My chair was a little scruffy, but had sat in it for years without any discomfort and wasn't willing to mess with that. Another time I asked my boss if I could open a service ticket for a new mouse, and she offered me a new monitor. She told me she was ticked because she had replaced a faulty monitor for one team member and they ended up getting a much larger and nicer one as a replacement. This prompted three other people in the department to open tickets for new monitors without asking her permission, spending the department's budget which apparently didn't require management approval for them to do. Told her thanks but my monitor was fine and would settle for a mouse that doesn't frustrate me.
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I have busted a lot of office chairs over the years. Sometimes I end up sprawled on the floor, laughing, surrounded by what used to be my chair.
Office chairs with an arch in the backrest give me back cramps. I have been using a little meeting room chair for 2 years, they are designed to not be too comfortable but because the back is straight I love them. They are also sturdy.
Equipment upgrades used to be a big deal when IT equipment was absurdly expensive. Now a very flash laptop plus monitors plus keyboard plus mouse costs less than paying a contractor for a week. First laptop I ever saw cost about 6 months of my salary. First time I had a single screen and keyboard on my desk or it represented about 3 months of my salary. So equipment upgrades used to make a huge hole in the budget.
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Haha, this is 5 years later. I can't remember if you said what happened to the guy.
So what happened?
He died :-\. I guess he really was sick!!
His unit got sold and there's some semi retired bloke living there now illegally running a carpentry business in his garage
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Reading these posts brings back memories.
I've been retired 20 years. I've worked in gymnasiums, supply rooms, a large walk-in safe (on a typing table), freezing offices, a law library basement, etc. The joy of being a state government auditor. Don't miss it. In fact I've come to realize that at 70 most of my office skills have gone kaput and my age is against me for just about any job. Even so, I enjoy retirement's challenges.
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Reading these posts brings back memories.
I've been retired 20 years. I've worked in gymnasiums, supply rooms, a large walk-in safe (on a typing table), freezing offices, a law library basement, etc. The joy of being a state government auditor. Don't miss it. In fact I've come to realize that at 70 most of my office skills have gone kaput and my age is against me for just about any job. Even so, I enjoy retirement's challenges.
Never understood why people would do that. Audits, and thus auditors, are a bit intimidating. Would have to guess an auditor might like that aspect of their work, so it makes sense to treat them as such. In my first job here, was responsible for corporate, osha, and sox compliance. We had a 'guest' office, but it wasn't really a guest office; it was an abandoned office filled with dirt and the remnants of whoever worked in there. Told my boss it was a crap hole and embarrassing to put people there, so he let me clean and clear it and stock it with the best of everything. An auditor once told me what a pleasure it was to work with me, not only because of the space, but especially because I presented my supporting documentation on tables in easy to use hanging file crates. They said it's most common they're either forced to invade someone's workspace, or stuck in a crappy hole bending and crouching to dig through file cabinets, or placed in a conference room and given a mountain of folders to sift through. :laugh:
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
That's awful. Nothing has ever been taken of mine, and don't hear of it from others. Have nice metal rulers and years ago one came up missing so bought a new one. About a year later, found it in some paperwork when cleaning and felt like a total ass for assuming it was taken. Another time my keyboard came up missing, but it was when I was training my replacements so I didn't have a designated workspace of my own, and my things were sitting off to the side looking abandoned. It was returned because it was part of a wireless keyboard and mouse set; the usb was in my machine so it wouldn't work for anyone else anyway. People tend to borrow chairs from the conference rooms instead of people. There's plenty of them and they're a different color, so people put them back too.
Office chairs going missing are the worst. Some of the chairs in the office are old and worn out, and I always seemed to get those. Or this one time, those weird ergonomic ones that only a few people can actually sit on for more than a minute or so.
In the UK, good keyboards were the real commodity. The hot desk system made it really difficult to track everything but there were always some desks that nobody wanted to use. People would even borrow desks on other floors if too many people decided to work in the office rather than remotely.
Have really come to appreciate being with a company which values uniformity of equipment. It equates to equality, and frankly looks much nicer. It was sometimes a sore spot with my previous company, people complaining about others having nicer things. One time a team member who had back problems requested and received a new chair, which prompted half the department to crybaby want a new chair. Was offered a new chair even though not asking for one, but declined. My chair was a little scruffy, but had sat in it for years without any discomfort and wasn't willing to mess with that. Another time I asked my boss if I could open a service ticket for a new mouse, and she offered me a new monitor. She told me she was ticked because she had replaced a faulty monitor for one team member and they ended up getting a much larger and nicer one as a replacement. This prompted three other people in the department to open tickets for new monitors without asking her permission, spending the department's budget which apparently didn't require management approval for them to do. Told her thanks but my monitor was fine and would settle for a mouse that doesn't frustrate me.
The thing is that there's always going to be new employees who will get the latest tech. A nicer monitor, a better mouse, anything. And people will notice.
Working remotely is perfect for me. I have the stuff I need. Nobody can nick it, nobody will be jealous.
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^Jack, no, I never had an office at my current workplace, only a desk.
Came to think of it, another really annoying thing that seems to regularly happen in open office spaces is that people appropriate your stuff - office chairs, keyboards, mice - and replace them with something that is broken, dirty or just awful. I don't know how many times I've had someone nick my chair while I was away.
That's awful. Nothing has ever been taken of mine, and don't hear of it from others. Have nice metal rulers and years ago one came up missing so bought a new one. About a year later, found it in some paperwork when cleaning and felt like a total ass for assuming it was taken. Another time my keyboard came up missing, but it was when I was training my replacements so I didn't have a designated workspace of my own, and my things were sitting off to the side looking abandoned. It was returned because it was part of a wireless keyboard and mouse set; the usb was in my machine so it wouldn't work for anyone else anyway. People tend to borrow chairs from the conference rooms instead of people. There's plenty of them and they're a different color, so people put them back too.
Office chairs going missing are the worst. Some of the chairs in the office are old and worn out, and I always seemed to get those. Or this one time, those weird ergonomic ones that only a few people can actually sit on for more than a minute or so.
In the UK, good keyboards were the real commodity. The hot desk system made it really difficult to track everything but there were always some desks that nobody wanted to use. People would even borrow desks on other floors if too many people decided to work in the office rather than remotely.
Have really come to appreciate being with a company which values uniformity of equipment. It equates to equality, and frankly looks much nicer. It was sometimes a sore spot with my previous company, people complaining about others having nicer things. One time a team member who had back problems requested and received a new chair, which prompted half the department to crybaby want a new chair. Was offered a new chair even though not asking for one, but declined. My chair was a little scruffy, but had sat in it for years without any discomfort and wasn't willing to mess with that. Another time I asked my boss if I could open a service ticket for a new mouse, and she offered me a new monitor. She told me she was ticked because she had replaced a faulty monitor for one team member and they ended up getting a much larger and nicer one as a replacement. This prompted three other people in the department to open tickets for new monitors without asking her permission, spending the department's budget which apparently didn't require management approval for them to do. Told her thanks but my monitor was fine and would settle for a mouse that doesn't frustrate me.
The thing is that there's always going to be new employees who will get the latest tech. A nicer monitor, a better mouse, anything. And people will notice.
Working remotely is perfect for me. I have the stuff I need. Nobody can nick it, nobody will be jealous.
Taking other people's stuff is unacceptable, so definitely empathize with that. While often not relating to materialistic jealousy, it's generally understandable. You're right it's part of the territory in dealing with other people and senses of entitlement. There's the jealous one, but there's also the ones with nice equipment covered in dust, smears, and greasy paw prints. Can relate to people who want something better for themselves, more so than people who don't take care of their things.
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I have busted a lot of office chairs over the years. Sometimes I end up sprawled on the floor, laughing, surrounded by what used to be my chair.
Breaking a chair in front of people is probably a fat girl's worst nightmare. :laugh:
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greasy paw prints.
>:(
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I have busted a lot of office chairs over the years. Sometimes I end up sprawled on the floor, laughing, surrounded by what used to be my chair.
Breaking a chair in front of people is probably a fat girl's worst nightmare. :laugh:
Even when I'm in good shape I weigh more than most fat girls.
I am normally laughing too much to be embarrassed.
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It's my last week in the office. They've moved people around again and I no longer have a desk since they've made me redundant. So I found a sofa in a breakout area and hooked up my gear there. Perfect. Nobody's going to bother me there. People walk by and stop to say things like "I was surprised to see you in the office again."