INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: The_Chosen_One on August 23, 2011, 03:12:11 AM
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Here's something I was thinking about as Sept 11 approaches - why wasn't something done to ground those aircraft before they got to their targets?
We know that thousands of lives were lost when the 4 planes crashed (the 2 into the towers, the one into the Pentagon and the one near near Pittsburgh, and we know that the terrorist organization claimed the terrorists had flight training, but surely it would have been simpler for the pilots to say 'fuck you, the plane is on autopilot. If you want the fucking thing, kill me. But then you'll have to fly the motherfucker yourselves. And for starters, this is a 767, not a fucking Cessna or Fokker-fucking-Friendship.'
And surely ATC could have jammed the transponder and the radar to make it impossible for the planes to get where the terrorists wanted them to be taken.
Also, the amount of lives that would have been lost had the planes been ditched (which could have been an option) would have been a fraction of those that did die when the planes eventually crashed.
Maybe I'm trying to over-simplify things, but I'm just wondering if anyone else had thought of this scenario before.
Makes you ponder.
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It only tells me that the USA isn't as secure of a country as people make it out to be. It may be the most powerful nation in the world, but it is still full of stupid and fucked up leaders.
There were security experts who, beforehand, were warning about the Twin Towers not being secure enough to withhold plane clashes. Nobody paid attention until after it was too late.
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No one did anything because in general nobody had a clue as to what was going on. Also I don't believe anything like jamming the radar or transponder existed outside military control. Sure things could have been done and people warned of these types of attacks in some circles but they seemed somewhat remote in the possibility of them occurring at least that was the general train of thought. So responses where not in place for such attacks as yet and confusion ensued.
As for the towers how many building are built to withstand that now let along in the early 1970s as for retrofitting them it would have taken years if it could have even been done effectively. I am not sure how long ago they first started worrying about this but I am sure it wasn't time enough to fix them.
The USA a secure nation? Maybe from attacks from other governments but not from people living here. The only way for a government to be secure from it's own citizens and residents is a police state.
All that said I am so fucking sick of 911 you people don't even know how it it living in the New York metro area. You think you hear about it a lot? Here it's in the news everyday in some way shape or form.
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Here's something I was thinking about as Sept 11 approaches - why wasn't something done to ground those aircraft before they got to their targets?
Such as? A plane went out of radio contact for 3 hours last year when the pilots either fell asleep, got into an argument about their schedules or got busy looking at "something" on their laptops. The plan had over 200 passengers on board. Should the US government have shot it down?
We know that thousands of lives were lost when the 4 planes crashed (the 2 into the towers, the one into the Pentagon and the one near near Pittsburgh, and we know that the terrorist organization claimed the terrorists had flight training, but surely it would have been simpler for the pilots to say 'fuck you, the plane is on autopilot. If you want the fucking thing, kill me. But then you'll have to fly the motherfucker yourselves. And for starters, this is a 767, not a fucking Cessna or Fokker-fucking-Friendship.'
The pilots were dead. Had their throats cut with box cutters. This is why the restrictions are so tight and the flight deck door is reinforced and locked during all flights. Also, the flight training they took wasn't on a Cessna, but was on the model of plane that was hijacked.
And surely ATC could have jammed the transponder and the radar to make it impossible for the planes to get where the terrorists wanted them to be taken.
I don't think that technology exists. They were flying using landmarks, not radar.
Also, the amount of lives that would have been lost had the planes been ditched (which could have been an option) would have been a fraction of those that did die when the planes eventually crashed.
As happened in PA. Again, the pilots were dead so who was going to ditch the planes? If a plane is hijacked and the hijackers say to stay seated or you will die (and there are dead bodies lying around to show they mean it) how many people are going to get up and fight to commit suicide by grounding the plane? Only on the plane that went down in PA did the passengers know what was really going on after reading about it on their cellphones. And when they learned that they were going to die anyway they sacrificed their lives for those on the ground. The other planes probably didn't know the full extent of what was going on.
Maybe I'm trying to over-simplify things, but I'm just wondering if anyone else had thought of this scenario before.
Makes you ponder.
Pondering is good :)
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It only tells me that the USA isn't as secure of a country as people make it out to be. It may be the most powerful nation in the world, but it is still full of stupid and fucked up leaders.
There were security experts who, beforehand, were warning about the Twin Towers not being secure enough to withhold plane clashes. Nobody paid attention until after it was too late.
I don't think it is even possible to build a building that can withstand a crash from a jumbo jet. Have you seen this behemoth?
(http://www.asiatraveltips.com/newspics/0611/AirbusA380inHK2.jpg)
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MLA: points taken.
Don't the cockpit doors on those things open from the inside? I mean, how would the hijackers have entered the cockpit if the door was locked from the pilots' side?
Imagine, the hijacker shooting the lock to enter, the pilot(s) you would think could have been alerted by the noise, and set the ALS to ditch the flights.
Just hypothesizing. Maybe there was nothing that could be done. I'd like to think there could have been.
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MLA: points taken.
Don't the cockpit doors on those things open from the inside? I mean, how would the hijackers have entered the cockpit if the door was locked from the pilots' side?
Imagine, the hijacker shooting the lock to enter, the pilot(s) you would think could have been alerted by the noise, and set the ALS to ditch the flights.
Just hypothesizing. Maybe there was nothing that could be done. I'd like to think there could have been.
Before 9/11 they didn't even lock the doors. My understanding is also that they were pretty flimsy and could be kicked open. When strapped into a chair facing forward it is probably hard to defend yourself from someone coming in to cut your throat from behind :(
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The pattern of American Airlines Flight 11 was pretty consistent with all of them .
Departed Logan @ 7:59 am.
Hijack begins @ 8:14 am.
Transponder stopped transmitting @ 8:21 am.
8:23 am Atta inadvertently sends message to Boston Air Traffic Controllers when he thinks he is only talking to p[assengers.
8:37 am Boston ARTCC directly contacts NORAD who in turn contact Otis AFB.
8:46 am Flight 11 crashes into North Tower WTC
8:53 am F15s take off from Otis AFB.
There was no lead time.
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Fair enough. So regardless of what information NORAD had gotten, it was practically too late from even take off.
Fucking scary.
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Fair enough. So regardless of what information NORAD had gotten, it was practically too late from even take off.
Fucking scary.
The world is not as safe as the purveyors of material possessions would have you think.
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Fair enough. So regardless of what information NORAD had gotten, it was practically too late from even take off.
Fucking scary.
The world is not as safe as the purveyors of material possessions would have you think.
As well as those who believe that the earth is only 6000 yo.
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Fair enough. So regardless of what information NORAD had gotten, it was practically too late from even take off.
Fucking scary.
The world is not as safe as the purveyors of material possessions would have you think.
As well as those who believe that the earth is only 6000 yo.
Well, they don't even want the world to be safe. They want everyone to die in fire and agony so they can go hang out in a boring white world with no sin and no fun for all eternity. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
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I have often been puzzled about the Christians who love their god but look at the earth as sin infested crap. I have asked a couple of them why they don't off themselves to be with their god and out of this alleged cesspool. Of course there is always some rationale for god to want them to stay here and vex others. I look at seals :seal: and trees and think of how much I like certain places.
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I have often been puzzled about the Christians who love their god but look at the earth as sin infested crap. I have asked a couple of them why they don't off themselves to be with their god and out of this alleged cesspool. Of course there is always some rationale for god to want them to stay here and vex others. I look at seals :seal: and trees and think of how much I like certain places.
God keeps them alive so that you may still have a chance at being saved. No kidding.
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And then there are the ones that consider suicide to be an automatic ticket to hell. That is not what Jesus called the only unforgivable sin.
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And then there are the ones that consider suicide to be an automatic ticket to hell. That is not what Jesus called the only unforgivable sin.
Yeah, what was the unforgivable sin?
Oh, yeah. Blaspheming the fucking stupid cunt of a HOLY shit spirit. :autism:
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And then there are the ones that consider suicide to be an automatic ticket to hell. That is not what Jesus called the only unforgivable sin.
Yeah, what was the unforgivable sin?
Oh, yeah. Blaspheming the fucking stupid cunt of a HOLY shit spirit. :autism:
Dood! You're fucked now! I will be laffing at you from the bleacher seats in heaven. :hahaha:
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Only Iamnotaparakeet has the right to judge.
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Only Iamnotaparakeet has the right to judge.
Yeah, all Jesus did was hang around and get cross.
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Given the Cole and first WTC attacks were under Clinton, I guess you could assume they would have. Don't really know tbh.
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
Yes, the question should maybe be about George H.
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
Yes, the question should maybe be about George H.
I'm sure all those attacks were during Billy-boy's watch. Maybe he was too busy with Monica to notice.
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
Yes, the question should maybe be about George H.
I'm sure all those attacks were during Billy-boy's watch. Maybe he was too busy with Monica to notice.
I'm sure the gulf war is what really pissed them off in the first place.
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
Yes, the question should maybe be about George H.
I'm sure all those attacks were during Billy-boy's watch. Maybe he was too busy with Monica to notice.
I'm sure the gulf war is what really pissed them off in the first place.
Thought of that too. Didn't the US give heaps of money to Iraq to help fight the Iranians, never realising that the Iraquis were going to use the money and weapons against not only the Americans, but the Jews the Americans so love to protect? Saddam was sending scuds everywhere, and quite a few of them were aimed westward. Wouldn't surprise me then if Al Qaeda took notice. Rumour has it too that Bin Laden was also accepting money and weapons from the US as far back as the early 80s; can anyone confirm this?
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The money and weapons always go around and around. Al Qaeda took notice of the infidels who were invading their homeland.
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And then there are the ones that consider suicide to be an automatic ticket to hell. That is not what Jesus called the only unforgivable sin.
I'm no theologian, but according to the story Jesus knew he was going to be nailed up, right? Yet he went ahead and let it happen. How is that not suicide, and therefore hypocrisy?
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if Dubyah and Cheney had never been elected......would it have still happened?
Considering that,
1. WTC had already been bombed in 1993
2. CIA HQ had been attacked and two employees killed in 1993
3. Khobar Towers bombed 1996
4. Two Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi had been successfully flattened in 1998
5. and the USS Cole attacked in 2000
with no retaliation more severe than the bombing of a Sudanese aspirin factory. Why would al Qaeda not gone through with 9/11?
Yes, the question should maybe be about George H.
I'm sure all those attacks were during Billy-boy's watch. Maybe he was too busy with Monica to notice.
I'm sure the gulf war is what really pissed them off in the first place.
Kuwait was invaded by Iraq. Saudi Arabia begged us to come over and protect them from being invaded as well. US shows up and builds a few bases. Al Qaeda declares jihad on the US for invading their holy land (and allowing women on Saudi soil without burqas).
Isn't religion grand?
Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
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That's why it's bad for the USA to be funding other countries, period. :thumbdn:
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I remember in the late 1990s my friend and I were on a plane to Thailand and we got shown the flight deck (or whatever it is called) and a flight attendant opened the door to it. Really easy. No way that would ever happen now. So I count myself lucky for having had the experience that people wouldn't get now.
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I remember in the late 1990s my friend and I were on a plane to Thailand and we got shown the flight deck (or whatever it is called) and a flight attendant opened the door to it. Really easy. No way that would ever happen now. So I count myself lucky for having had the experience that people wouldn't get now.
They did that for me when I was a kid in the 70' and 80's when I flew alone
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I remember in the late 1990s my friend and I were on a plane to Thailand and we got shown the flight deck (or whatever it is called) and a flight attendant opened the door to it. Really easy. No way that would ever happen now. So I count myself lucky for having had the experience that people wouldn't get now.
They did that for me when I was a kid in the 70' and 80's when I flew alone
Did you sit with a pilot named Clarence Oveur? :zoinks:
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I remember in the late 1990s my friend and I were on a plane to Thailand and we got shown the flight deck (or whatever it is called) and a flight attendant opened the door to it. Really easy. No way that would ever happen now. So I count myself lucky for having had the experience that people wouldn't get now.
They did that for me when I was a kid in the 70' and 80's when I flew alone
Did you sit with a pilot named Clarence Oveur? :zoinks:
I remember him he asked if I like gladiator movies :zoinks:
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I remember in the late 1990s my friend and I were on a plane to Thailand and we got shown the flight deck (or whatever it is called) and a flight attendant opened the door to it. Really easy. No way that would ever happen now. So I count myself lucky for having had the experience that people wouldn't get now.
They did that for me when I was a kid in the 70' and 80's when I flew alone
Did you sit with a pilot named Clarence Oveur? :zoinks:
I remember him he asked if I like gladiator movies :zoinks:
And he asked you whether you'd seen a grown man naked.
'Surely you can't be serious'
'I am, and don't call me Shirley'.
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Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan was to the Soviets what Viet Nam was to the U.S.
Fighting through proxy.
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Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Afghanistan was to the Soviets what Viet Nam was to the U.S.
Fighting through proxy.
The best-known mujahideen were the various loosely aligned Afghan opposition groups, which initially rebelled against the incumbent pro-Soviet Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA) government during the late 1970s. At the DRA's request, the Soviet Union intervened. The mujahideen then fought against Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. After the Soviet Union pulled out of the conflict in the late 1980s the mujahideen fought each other in the subsequent Afghan Civil War.[35]
Afghanistan's resistance movement was born in chaos and, at first, virtually all of its war was waged locally by regional warlords. As warfare became more sophisticated, outside support and regional coordination grew. Even so, the basic units of mujahideen organization and action continued to reflect the highly segmented nature of Afghan society.[36] Eventually, the seven main mujahideen parties allied themselves into the political bloc called Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen.
Many Muslims from other countries assisted the various mujahideen groups in Afghanistan. Some groups of these veterans have been significant factors in more recent conflicts in and around the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden, originally from a wealthy family in Saudi Arabia, was a prominent organizer and financier of an all-Arab Islamist group of foreign volunteers; his Maktab al-Khadamat funnelled money, arms, and Muslim fighters from around the Muslim world into Afghanistan, with the assistance and support of the Saudi and Pakistani governments.[37] These foreign fighters became known as "Afghan Arabs" and their efforts were coordinated by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen)
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And then there are the ones that consider suicide to be an automatic ticket to hell. That is not what Jesus called the only unforgivable sin.
I'm no theologian, but according to the story Jesus knew he was going to be nailed up, right? Yet he went ahead and let it happen. How is that not suicide, and therefore hypocrisy?
All religions depend on the hypocricy of their gods and leaders. "Do as I say, not as I do". ::)
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Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Not exactly. Al Queda didn't exist as an organization at that point. The US was funding the same people and orginizations that became Al Qaeda.
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if jesus came back from the dead, would that back him a zombie?
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Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Not exactly. Al Queda didn't exist as an organization at that point. The US was funding the same people and orginizations that became Al Qaeda.
reply #36, an excerpt from wikipedia, showed that it was collection of groups
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Yes, Al Qaeda was funded by the CIA all through the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Not exactly. Al Queda didn't exist as an organization at that point. The US was funding the same people and orginizations that became Al Qaeda.
reply #36, an excerpt from wikipedia, showed that it was collection of groups
Exactly. It formed from the non-Afghan elements of the Mujahideen.
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if jesus came back from the dead, would that back him a zombie?
Maybe Bart and Lisa did it one Halloween. That explains why Homer shot the zombie Flanders.