INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: Yuri Bezmenov on March 14, 2018, 07:23:32 PM
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I came across this video that explains scientific research into pop music from the 1950's to today.
The conclusion? Pop music had been going down in quality since the late 1960's. :nerdy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII&t=263s
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Its the same as they say in the worlds of chemistry and computing-garbage in, garbage out.
When you start with total shite, and it degenerates over time, what do you expect is going to come out of it, if not a humongous steaming torrent of pre-chewed, badly manufactured, plastic-coated vacuous, flatulent. verbal diarrhoea.
Also, what makes you think this was news? pop, R&B and (c)rap 'music' are the worst kinds of auditory pollution, vomited out by a pack of talentless entitled divas that could really benefit from being dipped in a bathtub full of molten sugar, wrapped in petrol soaked bog roll, lit on fire and flushed down an indian slum sewer in the middle of a heatwave.
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I like pop, RnB and rap. They are popular because they are well liked, and decent music. Well, rap lyrics can be pretty crude and offensive.
Metal and heavy metal though, that does sound like noise. It’s odd how the people who listen to that claim that most other music is crap, but hey.
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Heh, well you nailed me on that one FWM. I'm definitely a metalhead, doom/symphonic doom and industrial being my thing, generally speaking. Although I've a few other more..eclectic..tastes, that aren't even remotely metal, I just seem to be wired for heavy music though on the whole. Pop, etc. actually makes me feel pretty uncomfortable, it really grates on my nerves. Same with R&B, my dislike for rap is different. Its just...ew. Black thugs talking shit about other black thugs, guns, whores and bitches and shallow, pretentious ostentation. Makes me think of what you'd get if one were to use genetic engineering to endow a rooster with the power of speech and given it the means to add a backing track of some sort. Only with less talk about drive-by shootings targeted at egg-thieving farmers, and much more about whores and crackheads etc. etc.
Its just crude, generally vile shite. And then you get the white rappers like eminem etc. who are kind of...well what you'd get if you could turn a coconut inside out :P
And still noxious offensive cunts. Niggers/niggaz of a different color, is the rule, there might be exceptions but I've never heard one or heard of one. Not that I'm hugely likely to go looking or to want to find it if I did, because I still couldn't stand it.
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Heh, well you nailed me on that one FWM. I'm definitely a metalhead, doom/symphonic doom and industrial being my thing, generally speaking. Although I've a few other more..eclectic..tastes, that aren't even remotely metal, I just seem to be wired for heavy music though on the whole. Pop, etc. actually makes me feel pretty uncomfortable, it really grates on my nerves. Same with R&B, my dislike for rap is different. Its just...ew.
Makes sense that you’d be one, I have noticed that pattern amongst metalheads. I haven’t known one metalhead who liked popular music.
Black thugs talking shit about other black thugs, guns, whores and bitches and shallow, pretentious ostentation. Makes me think of what you'd get if one were to use genetic engineering to endow a rooster with the power of speech and given it the means to add a backing track of some sort. Only with less talk about drive-by shootings targeted at egg-thieving farmers, and much more about whores and crackheads etc. etc.
:laugh:
Its just crude, generally vile shite. And then you get the white rappers like eminem etc. who are kind of...well what you'd get if you could turn a coconut inside out :P
And still noxious offensive cunts. Niggers/niggaz of a different color, is the rule, there might be exceptions but I've never heard one or heard of one. Not that I'm hugely likely to go looking or to want to find it if I did, because I still couldn't stand it.
I get what you mean about them being pretentious. They have this thing of being “real” and telling it like it is, but they are really up themselves and aren’t necessarily “real”. I dislike how sexist they often are too, and quite vulgar. Still, you have to give rappers like Eminem some credit such as for tunes like Stan?
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Whilst I do not ordinarily listen to vile cock-snuffling wiggers like eminem, I do believe I have, worse luck on my part, had the dubious pleasure of hearing that particular sonic abortion, in my last spazz school.
Isn't that the one where the nasty little creature in question essentially spends the duration of the track screaming at his mother about her being a fucking slut bitch piece of shit and how he'd like to fuck her up, etc. etc. ?
Oh. Wait, I guess that isn't really much detail considering it is a (c)rap 'song', if one were only to take out the word 'mother' and replace it with 'nigger', 'bitchez yo', 'motherfucker and/or motherfucking' 'whatever other gang the (c)rapper groups currently wants to drive-by the most' or 'hos', or 'insert ripoff-merchant crack dealer here' then it is more or less the same pot full of toxic drivel, the only difference is the slack-jawed, slobbering mouth breather responsible for the crime of vomiting up their particular variation of the theme of niggers, bitches, fucking lots of hos; guns and drive-by shootings plus fuck shit ass bitch cunt and bastard, and you have there the entirety of the sum total of every rap 'song' ever shat.
And as for modern pop music, I bet a computer AI (or perhaps more of an 'AM', or artificial moron) could given a few basic formulas, replace human pop singers entirely. Hell a lot of the fuckers do it already and just mouth the fucking words whilst having a recording play when they perform 'live'.
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Err, no. It’s about an obsessed fan writing letters to Eminem and in the end he kills himself along with his pregnant girlfriend. It’s an awesome tune. At least listen to it before coming out with overly dismissive crap like that. >:(
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Oh I thought it was about his mother. I've heard the track itself.
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Of course you have.
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I've heard it. Are you calling me a liar?
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The video makes an interesting point of the comfort of familiarity and repetition, and genuinely liking a song the first time ever hearing it. Thought about that, having a wow reaction to the first time ever hearing a song. Can't recall it happening very often in life, so maybe have been brainwashed all along for most all of it.
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The video makes an interesting point of the comfort of familiarity and repetition, and genuinely liking a song the first time ever hearing it. Thought about that, having a wow reaction to the first time ever hearing a song. Can't recall it happening very often in life, so maybe have been brainwashed all along for most all of it.
:indeed:
I give you this earworm from the past. :M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62_xQU6HVD4
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Metal and heavy metal though, that does sound like noise.
A lot of heavy metal on sheet music looks just like classical music.
When Metallica made the album Master of Puppets, they studied Beethoven for several weeks.
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Actually thats a style I really like, a crossover between doom/classical.
Here, two examples, from two bands both confusingly called Draconian,
This lot, less well known than the other, from colombia.
https://youtu.be/5uGelwQXO8M Draconian-Persefone.
And the well known band of the same name, from Sweden.
https://youtu.be/1Gy_rqZ2vtI?list=RD1Gy_rqZ2vtI Draconian-'The Amaranth' (first in a playlist of their stuff. They have consistently picked some really talented female vocalists, Especially some of the early ones such as susanne arvidsson and lisa johansson)
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Metal and heavy metal though, that does sound like noise.
A lot of heavy metal on sheet music looks just like classical music.
When Metallica made the album Master of Puppets, they studied Beethoven for several weeks.
Metallica is far from typical Heavy Metal though. Their songs have discernible (to the average listener) lyrics and melodies and stuff.
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Metal and heavy metal though, that does sound like noise.
A lot of heavy metal on sheet music looks just like classical music.
When Metallica made the album Master of Puppets, they studied Beethoven for several weeks.
Metallica is far from typical Heavy Metal though. Their songs have discernible (to the average listener) lyrics and melodies and stuff.
I :heart: Metallica, been a fan of theirs since high school.
I also heard that James Hetfield took opera singing lessons before they released "Load". I think that album is excellent.
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I'd call metallica rock rather than heavy metal. A band can be rock without being metal. Good examples would be metallica, black sabbath, blue oyster cult etc.
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I heard an interview James Hetfield gave and in it he said their music is pop music because it is popular. :zoinks:
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Well, that is what "pop" stands for. It's a bit like saying that DVDs are discs.
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I only listen to radio stations that play current hits. Because when you start complaining that modern music is shit then you're just like every old fart, ever, who made the same fucking pointless complaint. Listening to current music delays my "old fart" status.
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I only listen to radio stations that play current hits. Because when you start complaining that modern music is shit then you're just like every old fart, ever, who made the same fucking pointless complaint. Listening to current music delays my "old fart" status.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
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I only listen to radio stations that play current hits. Because when you start complaining that modern music is shit then you're just like every old fart, ever, who made the same fucking pointless complaint. Listening to current music delays my "old fart" status.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
Did too!
Frankly couldn't give a toss about their "scientific" opinions and research and stuff. You're still a grumpy old fart if you go around complaining that music was much better back in your day. Grumpy old farts have been saying that as long as I can remember - and that's a long time.
And you're probably not old enough to even remember the Beatles while they were still together.
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I only listen to radio stations that play current hits. Because when you start complaining that modern music is shit then you're just like every old fart, ever, who made the same fucking pointless complaint. Listening to current music delays my "old fart" status.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
Did too!
Frankly couldn't give a toss about their "scientific" opinions and research and stuff.
I think that says a lot about you.
You're still a grumpy old fart if you go around complaining that music was much better back in your day.
No, pop music peaked BEFORE my day. Granted there was some really good music in the 1970's, but it had already begun to slide downhill. Do you remember disco??
Grumpy old farts have been saying that as long as I can remember - and that's a long time.
So what? What these guys are saying is quite different. Actually, what they are saying is basically the same complaint that Frank Zappa made in the mid 70's, that pop music had become a bland, corporate product that lacked true artistic value. Just listen to his song "Tinsle Town Rebellion". He also spelled this out in several interviews.
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I remember disco. It was mostly the fashion that came with it that made it so awesome.
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I remember disco. It was mostly the fashion that came with it that made it so awesome.
:puke:
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I only listen to radio stations that play current hits.
Don't choose to listen to music on a regular basis, but the radio station has been tuned to a classical station for many years; perhaps embracing my old fart. A family member began listening to more classical a few years ago; a small stroke combined with an unrelated pharmaceutical treatment created side effects which were taxing to mental and emotional competency, avoiding music with words was suggested. People should listen to whatever makes them feel good, even if a little brain washing is involved in that.
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I'd call metallica rock rather than heavy metal. A band can be rock without being metal. Good examples would be metallica, black sabbath, blue oyster cult etc.
There's been this strange shifting of the goal posts as to what metal is.
All of these bands were definitely considered mainline metal during the early years of the genre.
Same thing happened with punk. Strangely, the two genres converged.
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Well I could concede that sabbath is somewhere in between, they've done a fair lot of stuff that is definitely not metal, songs like 'air dance'
And then you've got bands like deep purple, definitely rock rather than metal, kinda blues-rock mixture if anything, like steppenwolf for another example, rock-blues fusion.
Metal, I'd categorize bands like say, mudvayne, five finger death punch, disturbed, tesseract, as metal, without being rock. With something like papa roach as somewhere in between.
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Sabbath was generally seen as the first real metal band. Defining the whole damned genre.
Steppenwolf, although coining the term, and definitely showing signs (along with many others), I'd see more as proto-metal.
By the time guys like Slayer (say nothing of the late comers you mention) came along, the genre was well established, and pretty much
stood for hard rock. Personally, I couldn't find a distinguishing line that made sense. But then, it got hijacked (sorta like RnB did). The
same thing more or less happened to punk, with the newcomer of hardcore taking the label over. Now, I have a helluva hard time
distinguishing punk from metal - when they used to be very very different.
I guess this is what happens when people allow a label to become too generic. It ends up getting 'purified' into something it wasn't.
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Tend to associate metal with any 80's thrash music.
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I remember disco. It was mostly the fashion that came with it that made it so awesome.
For your benefit, here's the relevant Frank Zappa interviews. He nails the downfall of the recording industry fairly well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZazEM8cgt0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgVUei2853A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZhXGv_VjP8
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People might call me a hipster because of my tastes in music but I'd much rather be called a hipster than get caught listening to some of the shite that gets pumped out in modern pop music.
Like this trash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqky5B179nM
One of the lyrics is literally, out of nowhere in the song "Why don't you go kill yourself?"...In a song targeted at tweens. That's pretty fucked up, all things considered.
I will admit I have guilty pleasures here and there for the more recent stuff, like "Firework" by Katy Perry but a lot of the stuff I'll admit to liking (non-guilty pleasures and all) is older than myself. My music tastes are very mixed and continue to grow as I discover more artists and songs but the modern pop stuff is still garbage to me. Still, not all modern music is in the toilet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znHtGpCAfGY (This gem is from 2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTyMhv7MCCs (This, from 2008. Two words: Pirate Metal)
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Why do you think I listen to testcard and light music instead? At least these people can actually hold a tune.
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Some pop music from the past 10 years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450p7goxZqg
Popular, modern music. I think this song is really good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBumgq5yVrA
And this, one of my favourite songs ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcrbM1l_BoI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT_nvWreIhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM
And the nineties may have featured one or two songs I enjoyed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LG0AUso74U&list=RD5LG0AUso74U&t=12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
I wonder how many of those kids in the Nirvana video, who would be in their forties now, are complaining about how modern music sucks. I remember teenagers back in the 90s being surprised that I liked Nirvana because wasn't I kinda old for that... (I was the same age as Kurt Cobain FFS).
When I was a teenager I remember people who had grown up in the 50s and 60s telling me how terrible 70s and 80s music was. I asked them "so, what did old people say about the music in the 50s and 60s?".
I made up my mind to break the cycle, I would never be like that. I know that a lot of teenagers say shit like that... but I actually meant it. I guess I've never forgot the person I was 30 or 40 years ago - unlike most people.
Yes, music might have been better in 1991. Or 1968. Or 1983. But it's 2018 and I love the fact that I like the same music my kids like.
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Heard this on the radio yesterday.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KRRzgV8CmAQ
I love this song. Don't care what other old farts say.
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^Not bad. He drops the f bomb.
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My favourite song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqky5B179nM
MKB, since you love this song so much, you might be interested in the original from 1980:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNQ9FQMNV4s&start_radio=1&list=RDUNQ9FQMNV4s&t=54
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Fuck. I'm going senile.
Wrong old song.
Mad King Bloke's favourite song is copied from "video killed the radio star".
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^I like that song.
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I find much of it far too vulgar and sexually aggressive but there's a point to that. Which I'm happy to suffer. The songs are fine, just as long as you don't play them on full volume.
I perfer my songs from the 1970s and 1980s.
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Aaaaaand it's bollocks:
https://youtu.be/VfNdps0daF8
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Hmmm. i actually watched both Scrap's vid in the OP and your piss-take vid, Mo. Have to to say that was a fair cop. But also have to say that he picked an easy target. I've heard much better arguments, to similar effect . And I also find the point about familiarity (which Jack picked up on) interesting. And its hardly controversial to suggest that commercialism has a detrimental effect on music. To what extent the evil old Music Industry dictates what we hear nowadays is an intersting question, on which i wouldn't trust that vlogger's opinion, but neither would i dismiss it out of hand.
Like you, I vowed not to fall into that Old Fogey mindset, but my position there is complicated by the fact that i never, ever liked more than a tiny fraction of chart-topping music, not even as a teenager, and couldn't stand Radio 1 (which was apt to de;iver a torrent of chart hits, still does, i believe) And I seem to gravitate towards similarly minded people. So, now it turns out that I don't like rap and synth pop , I suspect that I'd have hated that stuff just as much when I was in teens (if I'd been exposed to it then) Indeed my son shpws very similar tastes to myself, dislikes nearly all the chart-topping stuff , same as me, and is apt to believe that music was much better in the sixties and early seventies. Though he certainly does like quite a lot of newer music (and often introduces me to new stuff that that I like) , it tends to outside the mainstream , eg post rock and various indie Canadian artists ( I swear he likes all things Canadian though, even the crappy stuff )
That said, I think the perception that pop music has slid downhill is greatly exaggered by the fact that the crappiest bands are swiftly forgotten, so we tend to look back through rose tinted spectacles. I mean, for example, I don't think I've heard any of the Bay City Rollers hits played these past 3-4 decades not even at those awful Wedding discos; bands like Slade and Wizzard only get resurrected at Christmas; and who the heck remembers the Sweet or David Cassidy anymore ? (sorry if you'd mercifully managed to forget them, before I said that. )A lot of the really gppd artists that other people remember from the seventies (and earlier) eg Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits didn't reallly get much of a look -in next to that other crap , (because they didn't appeal to teeny-boppers, i suppose) they just out-survived the crap and developed an ever-growing following.
I was disappointed to find out that it was a lot harder to find bands thart i actually liked in the eighties and nineties and started to suspect myself old fogeyism. But then it eventually struck me that most of my friends had reached that stage in life when you're way too busy with family stuff to hang out in your mates 'bedrooms,playing the latest gem you picked up from the Virgin Superstore . So i just wan't exposed to such a wide range on non-mainstream stuff as i used to be. Still I developed a taste for The Fall, Nirvana, Laurie Anderson, Joy Divison , Radiohead, Nick Cave and a few others during these decades...and a growing distaste for Techno ( which i found interesting at first, but it rapidly started to all sound the same to me) sp its not like my tastes got totally stuck in the seventies. Gotta say the noughties were the pits for me musically, though, but then that might be mainly for social reasons again.
Anyways, I might be getting to be a genuine old fogey at last , in that i'm starting to prefer tp listen music that's easier on the nervees than some the old post-punk / metal stuff that i used to listen to quite a lot, and I recall one of my (somewhat older) friends observing "That's young person's music" of one such band (i forget which) ; which observation I thought to be pretty absurd at the time . But he might have had a point. Maybe the anger, angst and sheer screaming energy do wear a bit thin with age :-[. But, still, I don't like crass pop with stupid lyrics any more than I ever did.
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Wow Walkie. Even though Nick Cave is a fellow Strayan, I can only think of one song that I know: the serial killer ballad "Wild Rose".
I was never much of a music afficionado. I stay kinda up to date with current music simply by always listening to radio stations that play current hits. You won't catch me listening to golden oldies in my car. Also by having kids. My daughter is a massive Billy Eilish fan.
The way I see it, the attitude of my generation to pop music, that it's crap, was always going to happen. Even if we were living through the golden age of pop music right now (we're probably not) my generation would be saying it's crap anyway. There is a certain locked-in inevitability about such things.
In the 70s I never liked the Sex Pistols. These days I think they are kinda cool. When Prodigy were taking off I wasn't a fan of them either. Now I am.
I just take it as it comes. So far I've avoided being the cranky old fart who complains about how modern pop music sucks. With a bit of luck I might be around for another decade or two and finally get there.
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I liked techno at first, too. I had a Technotronic tape that I played to death. But it soon all sounded the same to me as well. I do like the Prodigy though, and have seen them in concert (a very long time ago)
Right now I like Fall Out Boy. Listen to them in the car.
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I listen to all kinds of stuff but only rarely what is "modern" at the moment.
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Even though Nick Cave is a fellow Strayan, I can only think of one song that I know: the serial killer ballad "Wild Rose".
He seems to much bigger over here than back in Straya (he even lives here, in Brighton) , Has headlined at Glastonury a few times, and is almost a houseghold name these days. Wrote (and performed) the theme song for Peaky Blinders (Red Right Hand) so that's probably his best-known song nowadays.. . or , hang on, it might be " O children" because that featured in a Harry Potter film . But , anyway, abck in the eighties, heandhis band The Bad Seeds were only of interst to misfits and weirdos, and it's taken them an extremely long time to develop their current huge following. In the interim, he messed up his brain with drugs to the point that I got thoroughly bored with him , and it took fervent effots from my son, plus one or two online friends to persuade me to give his newer stuff a trial. I'm so glad I did! because (now he's clean) he just gets better and better with age.
And now i can't resist posting a link to Red Right Hand, though its not really in keeping with this topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxePKps87k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxePKps87k)
more to the point, here are a few links to some seventies hits that have been mercifully forgotten (almost! :evillaugh:) Beginning with that notorious paedo, Gary Glitter, demonstrating his prestigeous grooming skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxfSlIS55mk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxfSlIS55mk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyBFxjmJPqk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyBFxjmJPqk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhkM3X_teQ
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEhkM3X_teQ)
I feel a bit sorry for the Sweet, TBH, cos they were evidently better than the stupid teenybopper chunder that their studio forced them to play ; and evidently ill-at-ease with that material. But that's the sort of thing that sold, and that was the price of fame and fortune.
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Heard this on the radio yesterday.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KRRzgV8CmAQ
I love this song. Don't care what other old farts say.
it's alright, but is it really modern? sound like an old-fashioned ballad to me. There's no reason why old farts should have any problem with that, is there? i recall that my 80-year old Mum really liked the Scissor Sisters. New band, new songs, sure, but they had a familiar sound didn't they?
There's not much that's really new enough to offend the old farts sensibilities, IMO. There wasn't in the seventies either. My parents used to like Top of the Pops. I was the one who couldn't stand it, and vowed not to have a freaking TV, after i left home. They didn't like Pink Floyd, cos their stuff was innovative. intelligent, and not so melodic and predictable as pop. but then , most of my peers disliked Floyd for the same reasons. Then Dark Side of the Moon softened people towards them, and they became more mainstream after that. I mean, not only were they accepted into the mainstream, but their style became increasingly mainstream. And i started getting bored with them . Not a generational thing, really, but a question of different taste.
I'm not a music buff either, I just tend to respond to stuff that affects me on a deeper level than disco stuff can reach. Dance music doesn't make me feel like dancng, as a rule , with a few pdd exceptions such as Talking Heads. Oddly enough , my musical choices often correspond to what's thought to be exceptionally good, technically speaking. Well, I guess that would help, but i think it's the pure creativity and passion that's getting to me really.
In the 70s I never liked the Sex Pistols. These days I think they are kinda cool.
ah! that's the old fami';iarity factor at work , isn't it? :laugh: In the 70's , the Sex Postols were decidedly new . A few decades on, you;ve heard them. and other punk bands, hundreds of times over. They are now familiar.
Fuck. I'm going senile.
Wrong old song.
Mad King Bloke's favourite song is copied from "video killed the radio star".
why didnt you just edit the link? Here ya go (cos you can count me in as liking that song, too)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs)
I find sampling irritating, generally, but it's good, i guess if it raises interest in the original
And modern media has had a positive effect , i think, in that it;s enabled younger folk to discover a lot of the older talent for themselves... though the copyright nazis on You Tube have been doing their damnest to undermine that effect. Ad it also enables them to check out indie music from other countries. which was next-to-impossible back in the seventies. I've noticed that young folk nowadays often have much more eclectic tastes , as well as more "retro"" tastes than preceding generations. Its got harder for the Big Labels to dictate what people hear :)
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Dean Lewis's "it'll be alright" was a big current hit when I posted that. His music is excellent and he's not from the olden days.
I just figure people should like what they wanna like and maybe realize when they sound like their parents did when they were teenagers. If you wanna replay that script, that's fine, it's just that the lack of self awareness needs call i by out sometimes.
I never recall my grandfather saying a bad word about any kind of music. He was a professional muso for 60 years or so. He went through several eras of music and had heard all the same criticisms before.
I think with the sex pistols and prodigy their music was too harsh for me to appreciate, but as I got more familiar with similar styles of music I appreciated it much more.
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Dean Lewis's "it'll be alright" was a big current hit when I posted that. His music is excellent and he's not from the olden days.
Sorry, didn't explain myself clearly there. I got that it was current, but coulnt see what was "modern'" about it stylistically? Not that I think that new music has to be modern in style; that would be pretty awful :laugh: and make for even greater overload on sameness. But i thought you were citing it in support of a particular point, and ...well, nvm, it doesn't actually matter a hill of beans either way, just so long as i didn't unwittingly give offence :eyelash:
What i meant was just that it's the sort of thing an old fart could like, just as easily as as young one, FWIW
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Huh. now i'm obsessing about where else I might have hit a bum note (don't worry, I'll get over it :laugh:)
the thing about my parents liking TOTP was meant to demonstrate that there was nothing much in seventies chart music that was fundamentally new (ignoring the silly costumes) nothing that would take folk like my parents out of their comfort zone. That genuinenely new stuff took them out of their comfort zone was demonstated by the fact that they scathingly dismissed nearly all the music (and literature and films and pretty much every damned thing) that i liked as "weird" (Pink Floyd being cited as a telling example) .
At the same time, i was also listening to quite a lot of folk music (mostly live, so that didn't get inflicted on them quite so much) which additional fact i hope serves to demonstrate that i certainly don't think that something needs to be fundamentally new to be worth listening to. ( I can see how I might have unwittingly implied the opposite ). Far from it. I actually think the striving for öriginality"in the arts in general (not just music) serves to cripple genuine talent, because "originality" springs up, IMO, only when the tried-and-trusted tools for expression don't suffice to express the thing that you want to express. And not before. You can't force it. And you don't even need it most of the time.
The TOTP stuff was painful to hear, not because it was old wine in new skin ; but because it was horribly over-commercialised , by and large, most the songs churned out by hit-making factories like Chinnichap, without an ounce of sincerity.
In retrospect , i can see that most of the things that i thought i was saying implicitly were not coming across as expected. There are too many other conclusions you could draw. Oops!
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Walkie, I got what you were saying, I don't think I got the wrong end of the stick too much. Just about the Dean Lewis track, I was kind of saying that it's current pop music. And that current pop music isn't just one style, it's diverse. And some of it would, of course, appeal to a broader audience than just kids between 10 and 25. My rants about grumpy old farts who sound like their parents are just general rants about those people my age who turned into exactly the sort of middle-aged and older people who they hated when they were young. You aren't one of those people. Scrap on the other hand....
There's various music that I didn't necessarily enjoy at the time that grows on me as my tastes change. Stuff that was ahead of its time in some ways, stuff that influenced later music. I wasn't much of a fan of Pink Floyd, but I like them now. I wasn't much of a fan of the Sex Pistols, but I like them now. I was certainly not a fan of Dire Straits, but I like them now.
There's other music that I really didn't like at the time, a lot of American soft rock for example. And it hasn't grown on me at all. I'm not saying that it's objectively bad. Country and Western music as well, not my thing generally.
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:thumbup:
There's other music that I really didn't like at the time, a lot of American soft rock for example. And it hasn't grown on me at all. I'm not saying that it's objectively bad. Country and Western music as well, not my thing generally.
interesting that you pick those examples, cos i tend to think there's something quintessentially NT about those styles, and almost all the aspies i know have a similar aversion. With C&W , there's a lot of sickly sentimentality in their songwriting that really turns me off, though i sometimes stumble over bits of music in that genre that i actually like...eg the Be Good Tanyas have a lot of C&W in their repertoire and I can take it from them,
With American soft rock , for me it has a sort "journeyman" feel to it ; sincerely well-executed foot-tapping stuff that has nothing much to say. Cant fault it, but still it leaves me feeling kinda empty and alone cos it fails to get under my skin. Here's a funny thing : I used to cite Fleetwood Mac as a major exception to that rule...before I sussed that they're actually a British band :LOL:
OK, they lived in the states for donkeys years and picked up two highly salient American members (Buckingham and Nicks) which made them a British-American hybrid from there on, but still, to American ears , they retained a distictly British sound, apparently.
:apondering: makes me wonder if my tastes are excessively parochial in fact? :laugh:
But anway, before i go, I feel impelled to add that actually I really don't like Fleetwood Mac anymore, not ever since they been and gone and went and invented freaking synthpop. :grrr: . But , hey! I'm not alone in that. Their album sales dropped pretty dramatically, around that point in time IIRC :)
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I listen to all kinds of stuff but only rarely what is "modern" at the moment.
Carla is very into the alt rock sound. She even knew who Lzzy Hale and Halestorm were before I saw that video of her and HU Band. My tastes are eclectic, old pop and rock, folk, classical, some new age and jazz stuff. Basically I listen to what appeals to me at the time. Lately I've been listening to early Gordon Lightfoot at home and usually classical in the car. I hear enough contemporary stuff like katy perry, miley cyrus, etc. at work since they are on walmarts playlist. And if we do a long driving journey, the rule is that the passenger in front gets to choose what channel on SIRIUS XM that they want to listen to. So I am somewhat familiar with the new stuff. There are sucky tunes in all the genres, but, music, as Dave Barry wrote about in his "Book of Bad Songs", is subjective. I go by the Duke Ellington quote, "If is sounds good, it is good!" And that is words to listen to music by! 8) :nicegear: :headphones:
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Walkie, Fleetwood Mac never did much for me, even though it's obviously good music. Air Supply were an Australian band who did that American Soft Rock style as well. They were never very popular in Straya but did well in the US.
I agree with Rock Hound, it's subjective.
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Walkie, Fleetwood Mac never did much for me, even though it's obviously good music. Air Supply were an Australian band who did that American Soft Rock style as well. They were never very popular in Straya but did well in the US.
I agree with Rock Hound, it's subjective.
Air Supply had a short life in the US. Successful, but their treacly lyrics and drama llama stage presence has consigned them to the dust bin here. Nobody that I know can remember their songs or lyrics.
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But anway, before i go, I feel impelled to add that actually I really don't like Fleetwood Mac anymore, not ever since they been and gone and went and invented freaking synthpop. :grrr: . But , hey! I'm not alone in that. Their album sales dropped pretty dramatically, around that point in time IIRC :)
I'm fairly sure that was Kraftwerk. :zoinks:
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I agree with Rock Hound, it's subjective.
ummm. irrespective of what Rockhound has to say on the subject, he's also made it abundantly clear, on several ocasions, that he'll take great offense at certain members of this board (including self) if we acknowledge his presence in any way shape or form. Even if we plus him.
So bringing him into a convo with me is a lot like saying STFU, Walkie. Which I don't think is what you intended, not exactly. ...though I prolly have got a little bit tedious :laugh: , so just letting you know for future reference
So, let's pretend you just said "it's subjective"
And, well, there's a great big freaking truism isn't it? so, why the heck have we been discussing this thing at such great length? From my own POV , am intersted in what objective qualities the music possesses, and what character traits I and others might have , to account for the wide variation in subjective responses. And also if some subjective responses might have more value to the listener, or even to the human race as a whole, than others? (eg i think that sudden;y feeling that you're not alone in the Universe after all is of greater value - and much harder to stimulate,- than tapping your foot to a catchy tune. No reason why we can't have both ofc, but commercialism is apt to strive for the latter effect and undervalue the former . And I think that statement is objective , though arguable) ...blah-de-blah. could go on for the rest of eternity ofc, but main point is, sorry, I'm just no willing to let such an interesting thread lamely end on that note :P
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But anway, before i go, I feel impelled to add that actually I really don't like Fleetwood Mac anymore, not ever since they been and gone and went and invented freaking synthpop. :grrr: . But , hey! I'm not alone in that. Their album sales dropped pretty dramatically, around that point in time IIRC :)
I'm fairly sure that was Kraftwerk. :zoinks:
I thought Kraftwerk invented Techno. But according to Wikipedia I'm making an invalid distincton between Techno and sythpop (possibly entirely based on how much merit it has in my eyes :LOL: sort of: Techno, good in moderation. synthpop : banal and annoying . Talk about subjective! ) Well, i never did pay much attention to these categories, so am totally happy to bow to your superior knowledge (er, did that sound sarky? I actually mean it) All I know is that FM started doing synthpop XX years ago, I didn't like it, and they were later credited with starting the whole thing by somebody else to whose superior knowledge I'd previously bowed :LOL: Think I'll just go back to not knowing the difference :LOL:
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Ah, I was unaware of any feud between yourself and Rock Hound, even if it's a one-sided feud. I like a good feud for the entertainment value, I'm on the lookout for my next feud buddy since Al and Scrap are gone.
Sorry, "subjective" wasn't intended to be a thread killer. It's a bit like morality which I also consider to be subjective. We (humans) need to discuss and agree on what is good and bad morality. The subjectivity of morality his what makes it interesting.
Similar with music, it's the subjectivity of music that makes it interesting. And endlessly discussable.
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Sorry, "subjective" wasn't intended to be a thread killer. It's a bit like morality which I also consider to be subjective. We (humans) need to discuss and agree on what is good and bad morality. The subjectivity of morality his what makes it interesting.
Similar with music, it's the subjectivity of music that makes it interesting. And endlessly discussable.
Wow!just had to :plus: you for putting it so concisely. Unlike me. :-[
:2thumbsup: