INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: Bastet on August 12, 2015, 07:30:14 PM
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:hahaha:
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Male feminists admit it outright.
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(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Vagina+jokes+aren+t+funny+period_400b8c_3925821.jpg)
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Oh Dear God
Shoe on Head is one of my favourite Youtubers. Here is her with a Male Feminist trying to tell her why she is wrong and Oppressed by men.
She is a lot of fun, but more than a little brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qw8sgEdRw
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Oh Dear God
Shoe on Head is one of my favourite Youtubers. Here is her with a Male Feminist trying to tell her why she is wrong and Oppressed by men.
She is a lot of fun, but more than a little brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qw8sgEdRw
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(https://miniganb.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/slut.jpg)
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
Bullshit.
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
Bullshit.
You're right, it's not
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"Women are people or not" Seriously,I know about your career path as professional white knight. I wonder what you colleagues would think of you slut shaming Meadow for being raped?
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
Ikr he likes to twist details to suit himself. He does this all the time. Paints himself as an alpha when he's an insecure beta who hates his life. He picks on easy targets like Richard and Pappy to inflate his ego.
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Words of wisdom from the wise anti-feminist, Pat Robertson :2thumbsup:
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Words of wisdom from the wise anti-feminist, Pat Robertson :2thumbsup:
This is too precious. No one with any sense agrees with Pat Robertson. Nice straw man you have there.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g67z_xBe07Q
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
Ikr he likes to twist details to suit himself. He does this all the time. Paints himself as an alpha when he's an insecure beta who hates his life. He picks on easy targets like Richard and Pappy to inflate his ego.
It's off-the-cuff sarcasm Les. Or a premeditated plan to pick on weak members to cover up my shame and overwhelming sadness at my horribly pathetic life. Whichever one makes the most sense to you ;)
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I'm a bovine. :hyke:
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
Ikr he likes to twist details to suit himself. He does this all the time. Paints himself as an alpha when he's an insecure beta who hates his life. He picks on easy targets like Richard and Pappy to inflate his ego.
It's off-the-cuff sarcasm Les. Or a premeditated plan to pick on weak members to cover up my shame and overwhelming sadness at my horribly pathetic life. Whichever one makes the most sense to you ;)
Riiiiiiiight. ;)
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I blame my misogyny on stupid whores. :zoinks:
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(http://memestorage.com/_nw/18/37868967.jpg)
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My biggest gripe with Feminism is NOT with the radical Feminists. Nor with the "equity Feminists".
Those Feminists that went men culled down to 10% of the population are NOT a threat. They can hatch whatever nefarious scheme they like or dribble shit on whatever private mailing list or forum they like. They are sad, pathetic people and not even worth consideration. They influence and affect nothing.
Equity Feminists believe that Feminism is simply the want of men and women to have equal rights, share adult burdens, with the same legal protections and same choices. That is exceedingly fair. Its something any decent person should want. It is an egalitarian or humanist mindset.
I personally believe that we have that at the moment. Absolutely it does not men that there is thought control and people can not think or behave in sexist or misogynist ways. It does not mean that people will never be indecent, bullying or hurtful. But it does mean that society is NOT allowing systematic oppression on account of gender and protect people legally against such incursions.
The people I have issue with are the Feminists that ARE listened to and the body of Feminists that DO influence and seek to push their influence in media, academia and into the public sphere. They are NOT the crazy Misandrists yelling into the void impotently. They are hateful and double down en masse over any outrage. They are offended over anything and they get results. They are NOT radical Feminists. If anything the Radical Feminists are SO radical they allow these people a "moderate" voice that will be listened to.
We see this in the Shirtstorm drama, the Tim Hunt Travesty, the UWA rape scandal and of course this "mean tweets" trial http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-the-twitter-trial-of-gregory-elliott-is-becoming-much-like-twitter-itself-shrill-and-uber-sensitive
Now its VERy easy in EVERY instance and say "Yeah, but that is just the radical Feminists" or "Yeah, but that is not representative of reasonable Feminists or reasonable people", to which I go back to my precise point. I don't care about "reasonable Feminists" nor the crazy #Killallmen Feminists. The ones that actually influence society in these horrible ways and demand and affect the law. Things like the usage of tender years doctrine, the title 9 usage in America, the primary aggressor laws in domestic abuse, are unhelpful and are used to further Feminist sensibilities against males in society. Couple this with an outrage culture an edit gives ample opportunity for rabid "moderate" Feminists to target individual, organisation and group after another with laws and academia and media giving massive support. The victims of this are usually men who when faced with this, have no idea what to do or ways to easily defend or deflect this outrage.
THIS is modern Feminism and how it appears to me. I quite like the idea of equality and I want my daughter to have the same choices and opportunity as the boys she goes to school with. I want her to be empowered and confident. I do not want her treated as a "special case" or pandered to. I don't want her to believe she has no agency or is systematically oppressed and under the thumb of an invisible non-quantifiable unfalsifiable Patriarchy. I want her happy and to be an equal and productive member of society
I sure as Hell would not want her to be a Feminist.
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My biggest gripe with Feminism is NOT with the radical Feminists. Nor with the "equity Feminists".
Those Feminists that went men culled down to 10% of the population are NOT a threat. They can hatch whatever nefarious scheme they like or dribble shit on whatever private mailing list or forum they like. They are sad, pathetic people and not even worth consideration. They influence and affect nothing.
Equity Feminists believe that Feminism is simply the want of men and women to have equal rights, share adult burdens, with the same legal protections and same choices. That is exceedingly fair. Its something any decent person should want. It is an egalitarian or humanist mindset.
I personally believe that we have that at the moment. Absolutely it does not men that there is thought control and people can not think or behave in sexist or misogynist ways. It does not mean that people will never be indecent, bullying or hurtful. But it does mean that society is NOT allowing systematic oppression on account of gender and protect people legally against such incursions.
The people I have issue with are the Feminists that ARE listened to and the body of Feminists that DO influence and seek to push their influence in media, academia and into the public sphere. They are NOT the crazy Misandrists yelling into the void impotently. They are hateful and double down en masse over any outrage. They are offended over anything and they get results. They are NOT radical Feminists. If anything the Radical Feminists are SO radical they allow these people a "moderate" voice that will be listened to.
We see this in the Shirtstorm drama, the Tim Hunt Travesty, the UWA rape scandal and of course this "mean tweets" trial http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-the-twitter-trial-of-gregory-elliott-is-becoming-much-like-twitter-itself-shrill-and-uber-sensitive
Now its VERy easy in EVERY instance and say "Yeah, but that is just the radical Feminists" or "Yeah, but that is not representative of reasonable Feminists or reasonable people", to which I go back to my precise point. I don't care about "reasonable Feminists" nor the crazy #Killallmen Feminists. The ones that actually influence society in these horrible ways and demand and affect the law. Things like the usage of tender years doctrine, the title 9 usage in America, the primary aggressor laws in domestic abuse, are unhelpful and are used to further Feminist sensibilities against males in society. Couple this with an outrage culture an edit gives ample opportunity for rabid "moderate" Feminists to target individual, organisation and group after another with laws and academia and media giving massive support. The victims of this are usually men who when faced with this, have no idea what to do or ways to easily defend or deflect this outrage.
THIS is modern Feminism and how it appears to me. I quite like the idea of equality and I want my daughter to have the same choices and opportunity as the boys she goes to school with. I want her to be empowered and confident. I do not want her treated as a "special case" or pandered to. I don't want her to believe she has no agency or is systematically oppressed and under the thumb of an invisible non-quantifiable unfalsifiable Patriarchy. I want her happy and to be an equal and productive member of society
I sure as Hell would not want her to be a Feminist.
I agree with you but the people you describe are also radical, but touted as moderate. It's bullshit.
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My biggest gripe with Feminism is NOT with the radical Feminists. Nor with the "equity Feminists".
Those Feminists that went men culled down to 10% of the population are NOT a threat. They can hatch whatever nefarious scheme they like or dribble shit on whatever private mailing list or forum they like. They are sad, pathetic people and not even worth consideration. They influence and affect nothing.
Equity Feminists believe that Feminism is simply the want of men and women to have equal rights, share adult burdens, with the same legal protections and same choices. That is exceedingly fair. Its something any decent person should want. It is an egalitarian or humanist mindset.
I personally believe that we have that at the moment. Absolutely it does not men that there is thought control and people can not think or behave in sexist or misogynist ways. It does not mean that people will never be indecent, bullying or hurtful. But it does mean that society is NOT allowing systematic oppression on account of gender and protect people legally against such incursions.
The people I have issue with are the Feminists that ARE listened to and the body of Feminists that DO influence and seek to push their influence in media, academia and into the public sphere. They are NOT the crazy Misandrists yelling into the void impotently. They are hateful and double down en masse over any outrage. They are offended over anything and they get results. They are NOT radical Feminists. If anything the Radical Feminists are SO radical they allow these people a "moderate" voice that will be listened to.
We see this in the Shirtstorm drama, the Tim Hunt Travesty, the UWA rape scandal and of course this "mean tweets" trial http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-the-twitter-trial-of-gregory-elliott-is-becoming-much-like-twitter-itself-shrill-and-uber-sensitive
Now its VERy easy in EVERY instance and say "Yeah, but that is just the radical Feminists" or "Yeah, but that is not representative of reasonable Feminists or reasonable people", to which I go back to my precise point. I don't care about "reasonable Feminists" nor the crazy #Killallmen Feminists. The ones that actually influence society in these horrible ways and demand and affect the law. Things like the usage of tender years doctrine, the title 9 usage in America, the primary aggressor laws in domestic abuse, are unhelpful and are used to further Feminist sensibilities against males in society. Couple this with an outrage culture an edit gives ample opportunity for rabid "moderate" Feminists to target individual, organisation and group after another with laws and academia and media giving massive support. The victims of this are usually men who when faced with this, have no idea what to do or ways to easily defend or deflect this outrage.
THIS is modern Feminism and how it appears to me. I quite like the idea of equality and I want my daughter to have the same choices and opportunity as the boys she goes to school with. I want her to be empowered and confident. I do not want her treated as a "special case" or pandered to. I don't want her to believe she has no agency or is systematically oppressed and under the thumb of an invisible non-quantifiable unfalsifiable Patriarchy. I want her happy and to be an equal and productive member of society
I sure as Hell would not want her to be a Feminist.
“He’s entitled to defend himself to the world, Mr. Murphy; he’s not entitled to do it to me.”
“No matter what you say about or to him?” Mr. Murphy asked.
“Not to me,” she said.
Typical millennial entitlement.
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My biggest gripe with Feminism is NOT with the radical Feminists. Nor with the "equity Feminists".
Those Feminists that went men culled down to 10% of the population are NOT a threat. They can hatch whatever nefarious scheme they like or dribble shit on whatever private mailing list or forum they like. They are sad, pathetic people and not even worth consideration. They influence and affect nothing.
Equity Feminists believe that Feminism is simply the want of men and women to have equal rights, share adult burdens, with the same legal protections and same choices. That is exceedingly fair. Its something any decent person should want. It is an egalitarian or humanist mindset.
I personally believe that we have that at the moment. Absolutely it does not men that there is thought control and people can not think or behave in sexist or misogynist ways. It does not mean that people will never be indecent, bullying or hurtful. But it does mean that society is NOT allowing systematic oppression on account of gender and protect people legally against such incursions.
The people I have issue with are the Feminists that ARE listened to and the body of Feminists that DO influence and seek to push their influence in media, academia and into the public sphere. They are NOT the crazy Misandrists yelling into the void impotently. They are hateful and double down en masse over any outrage. They are offended over anything and they get results. They are NOT radical Feminists. If anything the Radical Feminists are SO radical they allow these people a "moderate" voice that will be listened to.
We see this in the Shirtstorm drama, the Tim Hunt Travesty, the UWA rape scandal and of course this "mean tweets" trial http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-the-twitter-trial-of-gregory-elliott-is-becoming-much-like-twitter-itself-shrill-and-uber-sensitive
Now its VERy easy in EVERY instance and say "Yeah, but that is just the radical Feminists" or "Yeah, but that is not representative of reasonable Feminists or reasonable people", to which I go back to my precise point. I don't care about "reasonable Feminists" nor the crazy #Killallmen Feminists. The ones that actually influence society in these horrible ways and demand and affect the law. Things like the usage of tender years doctrine, the title 9 usage in America, the primary aggressor laws in domestic abuse, are unhelpful and are used to further Feminist sensibilities against males in society. Couple this with an outrage culture an edit gives ample opportunity for rabid "moderate" Feminists to target individual, organisation and group after another with laws and academia and media giving massive support. The victims of this are usually men who when faced with this, have no idea what to do or ways to easily defend or deflect this outrage.
THIS is modern Feminism and how it appears to me. I quite like the idea of equality and I want my daughter to have the same choices and opportunity as the boys she goes to school with. I want her to be empowered and confident. I do not want her treated as a "special case" or pandered to. I don't want her to believe she has no agency or is systematically oppressed and under the thumb of an invisible non-quantifiable unfalsifiable Patriarchy. I want her happy and to be an equal and productive member of society
I sure as Hell would not want her to be a Feminist.
“He’s entitled to defend himself to the world, Mr. Murphy; he’s not entitled to do it to me.”
“No matter what you say about or to him?” Mr. Murphy asked.
“Not to me,” she said.
Typical millennial entitlement.
100% agree
It is a sad sorry state where this is even up for consideration. After 3 years it is going to court and his life is on a knife edge.
It is terrible that with these title 9 cases, the accused can not be represented nor know the allegations nor seek counsel and is in for as many closed room grillings as the university wish to make and subject to whatever infractions they wish to give
Its a shame that primary aggressor laws place men who are the victims of domestic abuse in the same boat as the abusive men and likely as not to be charged and be barred from their house and children under protective orders as a result of such primary aggressor domestic abuse laws.
Society needs to push back against these things and to stop giving these "moderate Feminists" oxygen
No funding or tenure in academia (if they spout ideology instead of fact and call it education, they should be sacked), they need to prosecute heavily on false rape allegations, slander and libel, they need to stop reporting on every trumped up outrage. Companies need to follow Protein World's response to Outrage over "are you Beach Body Ready?" campaign. That was glorious.
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Protein World has released an official statement pointing out that the model in the original advert, Renee Somerfield, has a healthy BMI, adding: “It is a shame that in 2015 there are still a minority who aren't focusing on celebrating those who aspire to be healthier, fitter and stronger.
“We now run Britain’s largest protein facility, selling our products in over 50 countries to more than 300,000 customers. Most of them are women. How could we possibly be sexist?”
But on social media, the company’s Twitter account has been less understanding, telling one woman: “surely as feminists Vicky, you understand that no one takes you seriously?”
Another message read: “why make your insecurities our problem?”
Somerfield, 24, has also responded to the backlash, telling the Huffington Post that she felt body-shamed by feminists:
“I think nearly every ad campaign you have ever seen is open to interpretation. But saying the ad is body shaming by body shaming the image is very contradictory. Two wrongs don't make a right.”
But she supported the idea women don’t have to look a certain way to wear bikinis: “I am a real person behind the image. I work very hard and live a healthy and active lifestyle which is why Protein World chose me for their campaign.
“I couldn't work every day as a full time model by starving myself, dieting or not looking after my body. Nourish your body, be kind to it and it will love you right back, no matter your size.
“I agree that ALL bodies are 'beach body ready'. Skinny, curvy, muscular, petite, tall, short, young and old. Confidence is beautiful no matter what size you are.... Your reflection doesn't define your worth.”
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
Ikr he likes to twist details to suit himself. He does this all the time. Paints himself as an alpha when he's an insecure beta who hates his life. He picks on easy targets like Richard and Pappy to inflate his ego.
It's off-the-cuff sarcasm Les. Or a premeditated plan to pick on weak members to cover up my shame and overwhelming sadness at my horribly pathetic life. Whichever one makes the most sense to you ;)
Well I am not a big one for conspiracy theories.
I still don't understand but I think I'll get through this okay. It's cool. I wander through life generally in surly bewilderment
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http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1738-wikipedias-war-women-4-weird-realities-inside.html
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Ridiculous
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"Tumblr accepts everyone regardless of their sexual identity, race and gender. Except men, they are evil."
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(http://img3.owned.com/media/images/1/9/3/0/19309/feminist_logic_540.png)
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This hits the nail on the head with modern feminism.
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(http://img3.owned.com/media/images/1/9/3/0/19309/feminist_logic_540.png)
I approve of this protest. :M
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Bahahaha
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:hitler:
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:lol1:
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:agreed: :lol1:
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This ongoing argument about whether women are people is kind of funny to me.
I don't get it? Who is arguing that?
Nobody. Hoobert is making yet another straw-man. ::)
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:headhurts:
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Let's watch where this goes in respect to free speech
First they got invited to the UN then gathered the troops to go to Google Ideas
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/21/zoe-quinn-is-the-perfect-person-to-address-the-un-on-cyberbullying/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/25/u-n-womens-group-calls-for-web-censorship/
http://thegg.net/opinion-editorial/google-ideas-more-like-google-abuse-and-google-censorship/
It Will not take too long to get an idea what these wonderful women are really about if you care to research, or I could do the legwork if you were interested. Otherwise take my word for it,the are horrible people NOT because they are women but because they are horrible people.
This is their basic tactic simplified
Them: "You are a horrible disgusting human that is sexist and misogynist and probably a rapist too"
You: "Hey fuck you! You know nothing about me. Who the fuck are you anyway you nasty bitch"
Them: "Eeeek! Cyber-violence. He was casting gendered insults at me and is cyber-touching me. He is doing this because I am a woman. Once again the sexist, misogynist mobs are harassing me."
Its disingenuous and now they are seeking authoritarian censorship from UN AND google. Governments WILL be pressured.
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Let's watch where this goes in respect to free speech
First they got invited to the UN then gathered the troops to go to Google Ideas
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/21/zoe-quinn-is-the-perfect-person-to-address-the-un-on-cyberbullying/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/25/u-n-womens-group-calls-for-web-censorship/
http://thegg.net/opinion-editorial/google-ideas-more-like-google-abuse-and-google-censorship/
It Will not take too long to get an idea what these wonderful women are really about if you care to research, or I could do the legwork if you were interested. Otherwise take my word for it,the are horrible people NOT because they are women but because they are horrible people.
This is their basic tactic simplified
Them: "You are a horrible disgusting human that is sexist and misogynist and probably a rapist too"
You: "Hey fuck you! You know nothing about me. Who the fuck are you anyway you nasty bitch"
Them: "Eeeek! Cyber-violence. He was casting gendered insults at me and is cyber-touching me. He is doing this because I am a woman. Once again the sexist, misogynist mobs are harassing me."
Its disingenuous and now they are seeking authoritarian censorship from UN AND google. Governments WILL be pressured.
I find it comical how zegh finds gamergate ppointless. He just wants to get laid. It's pretty obvious.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp4VPsgBRlU
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:pee:
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Feminism turned into feminism sounds about right.
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What in the hell?
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:pee:
Source?
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:pee:
Source?
4chan troll again, of course.
So funny, apparently they get both the non intelligent feminists taking it serious as the non intelligent anti-feminists.
Just like that menstruating without pads or tampons thing they spread.
It separates the thinking from the non thinking part of the generation. Regardless of feminist or anti feminist tendencies.
:congrats:
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:pee:
Source?
4chan troll again, of course.
So funny, apparently they get both the non intelligent feminists taking it serious as the non intelligent anti-feminists.
Just like that menstruating without pads or tampons thing they spread.
It separates the thinking from the non thinking part of the generation. Regardless of feminist or anti feminist tendencies.
:congrats:
#Cut4bieber comes to mind.
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:pee:
Source?
4chan troll again, of course.
So funny, apparently they get both the non intelligent feminists taking it serious as the non intelligent anti-feminists.
Just like that menstruating without pads or tampons thing they spread.
It separates the thinking from the non thinking part of the generation. Regardless of feminist or anti feminist tendencies.
:congrats:
#Cut4bieber comes to mind.
What about shaving their heads for Bieber's "Cancer Diagnosis"?
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:pee:
Source?
4chan troll again, of course.
So funny, apparently they get both the non intelligent feminists taking it serious as the non intelligent anti-feminists.
Just like that menstruating without pads or tampons thing they spread.
It separates the thinking from the non thinking part of the generation. Regardless of feminist or anti feminist tendencies.
:congrats:
#Cut4bieber comes to mind.
What about shaving their heads for Bieber's "Cancer Diagnosis"?
Oooooh good one
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:pee:
Source?
4chan troll again, of course.
So funny, apparently they get both the non intelligent feminists taking it serious as the non intelligent anti-feminists.
Just like that menstruating without pads or tampons thing they spread.
It separates the thinking from the non thinking part of the generation. Regardless of feminist or anti feminist tendencies.
:congrats:
#Cut4bieber comes to mind.
What about shaving their heads for Bieber's "Cancer Diagnosis"?
Oooooh good one
More then good.... it was EPIC!
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http://grumpypurplesloth.blogspot.com/2015/07/admiring-bat-shit-crazy-feminists.html?m=1
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Jfc
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http://grumpypurplesloth.blogspot.com/2015/07/admiring-bat-shit-crazy-feminists.html?m=1
Are you fucking kidding me? -_-
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Jfc
Doesn't surprise me.
I've had it the other way around, people telling me they were sorry, over the pram I was pushing, because I had a second girl.
Who cares. Their stupidity.
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Jfc
Doesn't surprise me.
I've had it the other way around, people telling me they were sorry, over the pram I was pushing, because I had a second girl.
Who cares. Their stupidity.
Was it a Hindu?
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Jfc
Doesn't surprise me.
I've had it the other way around, people telling me they were sorry, over the pram I was pushing, because I had a second girl.
Who cares. Their stupidity.
Was it a Hindu?
Nope. There were a few people feeling sorry for me, telling me next kid could be a boy to comfort me. There was one Caucasian woman almost giving me her condolences for having a second girl. She was truly sad on my behalf.
:dunno:
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
It gets worse.
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
It gets worse.
I still think the part about telling a mother she should have aborted her child because of his gender is worse.
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Like
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
It gets worse.
I still think the part about telling a mother she should have aborted her child because of his gender is worse.
You dislike babies equally, whether female or male. :M
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
It gets worse.
I still think the part about telling a mother she should have aborted her child because of his gender is worse.
You dislike babies equally, whether female or male. :M
My daughter HATES babies and children.
Even today she said "Why did you ever decide you wanted kids? Ugh! (With complete understanding of the irony that my want to have kids predicated her own existence)"
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Jfc
What a bunch of little shits.
It gets worse.
I still think the part about telling a mother she should have aborted her child because of his gender is worse.
You dislike babies equally, whether female or male. :M
My daughter HATES babies and children.
Even today she said "Why did you ever decide you wanted kids? Ugh! (With complete understanding of the irony that my want to have kids predicated her own existence)"
My youngest is the same.
The HATE is big enough to cause imminent overload now and then. And, due to that, they trigger anxiety.
:GA: :GA: :GA:
Funny critters, kids.
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
I missed generation X by a couple of years. I'm glad because their fashion sense really sucked. :zoinks:
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
I missed generation X by a couple of years. I'm glad because their fashion sense really sucked. :zoinks:
The80s hair? 90s hair? Chanel vamp? Too much to list really
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
I missed generation X by a couple of years. I'm glad because their fashion sense really sucked. :zoinks:
The80s hair? 90s hair? Chanel vamp? Too much to list really
The 80's? No way. Gen X was the grungers and goths. Though I guess goth was okay, I could have done that.
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
I missed generation X by a couple of years. I'm glad because their fashion sense really sucked. :zoinks:
The80s hair? 90s hair? Chanel vamp? Too much to list really
The 80's? No way. Gen X was the grungers and goths. Though I guess goth was okay, I could have done that.
Chanel vamp was nasty. Like brown poo makeup gross. I can take a huge shit, smear it on my face and call it high fashion. :poop:
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I hate teenagers particularly generation z
I missed generation X by a couple of years. I'm glad because their fashion sense really sucked. :zoinks:
The80s hair? 90s hair? Chanel vamp? Too much to list really
The 80's? No way. Gen X was the grungers and goths. Though I guess goth was okay, I could have done that.
Chanel vamp was nasty. Like brown poo makeup gross. I can take a huge shit, smear it on my face and call it high fashion. :poop:
Oh I agree. When a generation of teens have heroine junkies as their idols, it makes for some horrible trends. It's natural for current music to pave the road for fashion trends for the general public, but I once read somewhere that heroine chic was a bit of an accident in the world of high fashion. The models started showing up for photo shoots looking like strung out dirty emaciated shit, and photographers just rolled with it. :lol1:
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(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12189640_993590167374489_8412754015287501517_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=99c457b5c53e5122215badcc2c2932c9&oe=56BBCF9B)
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I don't think there's anything wrong with conforming to another culture when visiting that culture, and I think it's the respectful thing to do. More people probably get ticked off about foreigners trying to move in and impose their cultural standards. :dunno:
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(http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/types_of_antifeminist.png)
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(http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/types_of_antifeminist.png)
:plus:
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:lol1: They forgot the ones who are just embarrassed by the feminists. :zoinks:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QqgNcktbSA
Universities are so bad not condemning Halloween costumes and creating safe spaces and places of comfort?
HARDEN THE FUCK UP BUTTERCUP!!!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QqgNcktbSA
Universities are so bad not condemning Halloween costumes and creating safe spaces and places of comfort?
HARDEN THE FUCK UP BUTTERCUP!!!
That whiny bitch yelling in his face God.
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Women’s Rights Activist Charged With Rape Threat Hoax On Facebook
This is a very, very odd story about a woman who allegedly made anonymous threats against herself on Facebook.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/womens-rights-activist-charged-with-rape-threat-hoax-on-face#.oiqZzVdQ91
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:headbang2:
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Christina Hoff Sommers we call based Moment. She is awesome
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everyday feminism
The Feminist Guide to Being a Foodie Without Being Culturally Appropriative
November 18, 2015 by Rachel Kuo
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Source: iStock
“The dishes of America’s recent immigrants have become check marks on a cultural scavenger hunt for society’s elite.” —Ruth Tam
I watch a lot of competitive cooking shows. And it seems like whenever there is a “bizarre” or “exotic” cooking ingredient, it’s associated with foods from my culture and childhood. 100 year old egg. Duck bills. Stinky tofu.
Mainstream media has made a spectacle out of foods from seemingly exotic places.
I’ve also observed a lot of White chefs create “Asian-inspired” dishes. When going out to eat, I notice many “Asian-fusion” themed restaurants where chefs combine all the countries and flavors in the vast and diverse continent of Asia and throw them together on both plate and menu.
What is “Asian inspired” or “Asian-fusion?” I have a sinking suspicion it’s not like when my mom made me sushi with cucumbers, lunch meat, and eggs growing up. Or toast with mayonnaise and pork sung. People used to make fun of the food I eat, and now suddenly, stuff like spam fried rice is selling at a hip new restaurant for $16.
It’s frustrating when my culture gets consumed and appropriated as both trend and tourism.
When it comes to food, what’s appropriation and what’s not can be tricky to think about.
Cultural appropriation is when members of a dominant culture adopt parts of another culture from people that they’ve also systematically oppressed. The dominant culture can try the food and love the food without ever having to experience oppression because of their consumption.
With food, it isn’t just eating food from someone else’s culture. It might not be appropriation if you’re White and you love eating dumplings and hand pulled noodles. Enjoying food from another culture is perfectly fine.
But, food is appropriated when people from the dominant culture – in the case of the US, white folks – start to fetishize or commercialize it, and when they hoard access to that particular food.
When a dominant culture reduces another community to it’s cuisine, subsumes histories and stories into menu items – when people think culture can seemingly be understood with a bite of food, that’s where it gets problematic.
It’s also harmful when the dominant culture controls the economic and material resources to produce that food for their own consumption and profit.
Here are some dining behaviors that are culturally appropriative when it comes to food.
1. Seeking ‘Authentic’ and ‘Exotic’ ‘Ethnic’ Food
Often, when we talk about “ethnic” food, we’re not referring to French, German, or Italian cuisine, and definitely not those Ikea Swedish meatballs.
Usually, we re talking about Thai, Vietnamese, Indian, Ethiopian, and Mexican food –places where food is cooked by the “brownest” people.
While food from Western Europe is still connected to ethnic roots, ethnic food has become reserved only for ethnicities that are perceived as exotic and foreign to White folks.
While food can connect people together and also serve as a way to learn about cultures other than our own, what happens is that food becomes the only identifier for certain places. Japan reduced to ramen and sushi, Mexico reduced to tacos and burritos, India reduced to curry, and so on.
Entire regions become deduced to menu options and ingredients without any thought to the many different communities in these places. There’s a loss of complexity and cultures end up getting homogenized.
In seeking “authentic” food, we’re hoping for a truly immersive experience into another culture. The food experience, whether in a restaurant in someone’s home city or as part of a trip somewhere else, comes to represent a larger experience with that culture and community. Our perceptions of what is “authentic” stem from pre-conceived “exotic narratives” of that culture and communities.
“Oh, during my trip to Asia, I had the most authentic [fill in the blank].”
Food culture has travelled and flowed in messy and complicated ways across the globe.
The impacts of historical and ongoing colonization are devastating to many cultures, and many “authentic” “ethnic” cuisines are connected to histories of colonization.
For example, what is now Vietnam had been occupied by China for a thousand years and then colonized by France. This period of colonization is also what led to things like banh mi (sandwiches) and banh ex (crepes). The use of spam in different parts of Asia and the Pacific Islands, like spam musabi or spam in hot pot, are a direct result of US colonization.
If you love a dish and think it’s delicious, great! If you’re searching for a place that serves a particular dish, also great!
However, seeking “authenticity” fetishizes the sustenance of another culture. The idea of the “authentic” food experience is separated from reality. It also freezes a culture in a particular place in time.
2. Having Your Friend of Color Be Your Food Expert
Don’t get me wrong, I love sharing foods from my culture with friends. I also love helping friends with restaurant recommendations and spending a long time on Yelp! trying to find good options for a group to go.
Where I take issue is when I become someone’s food ambassador to all of Asia.
Some friends have expected me to know where to get ramen, “real” Chinese food, “street-style” Thai food, Korean BBQ – and they’re disappointed when I don’t know. These are also the friends that once made fun of my food.
As someone who straddles different cultural identities, as Taiwanese and American, my knowledge of my culture comes from my parents and my personal experiences growing up.
My experiences of Taiwanese food are mostly from following my parents around, and because my language skills are rudimentary, I can never find the restaurant we went to or order the same things they did again.
There’s also a lot I don’t know about other Asian cultures, about the complex relationships and power dynamics between Asian countries. There’s a lot that I’m still learning, too. I do my own research on places to check out and you can too.
“What is the most authentic way to eat this?” “Where can I go to find authentic [fill in the blank]?”
Context matters. For example, asking if I’ve found any hand-pulled noodle joints that I like in the area is different than asking if I know authentic hand-pulled noodle joints.
The difference is that what you’re seeking is one person and one place to represent an entire culture for you.
There is no one right way to eat something and no one perfect dish to eat. People from different cultures all have their own food preferences, too – the unique ways their families make something or the way they prepare their own meal. It’d be like me asking, “Hey, what’s the most authentic way to eat a hamburger?”
Don’t constantly treat your friend of color as your food tour guide. We’re happy eating our cultural foods with you, but that’s not what our entire friendship should be about.
3. Wanting Adventure Points for Eating Food
Like early explorers “discovering” spices on their quests for new trade routes, some diners today are on similar quests to “discover” different ingredients and cuisines.
It’s great when people want to try foods they’re not used to or when they’re open to eating different things, but what ends up being problematic is when people want to be rewarded for their bold, adventurous experimentation with another culture. Where people can now literally check in on an app and receive a badge for their food adventures, but others want bonus real life adventure points.
When people think they’re being adventurous for trying food from another culture, it’s the same thing as treating that food as bizarre or weird.
The person outside of the culture becomes the person with “insider” knowledge about this exotic, other culture. The theme of “Westerner as cultural connoisseur” is rooted in imperialist ideas about discovering another culture and then making oneself the main character in the exchange. “I was transformed by my trip to [fill in the blank].”
Some folks want to be applauded for trying chicken feet, fermented bean curd, or just for eating with chopsticks. It’s disconcerting to eat with folks who are going to giggle about ingredients make comments like, “Oh my god, this is so weird! This is gross!” and run back to tell all their other friends about trying it and how “awesome” that experience was.
One of my favorite foods is a Szechuan dish with pig intestine and congealed pigs blood, and my parents get it as take out for whenever I visit home. The thing is, I’m not an “adventurous” eater. The “bizarre and weird” are foods that I’m familiar and comfortable with, food that I grew up eating.
By making a big deal out of someone’s culture and food, it reminds them that they’re culture is abnormal and doesn’t quite belong in this world.
4. Loving the Food, Not the People
When food gets disconnected from the communities and places its from, people can easily start forgetting and ignoring historical and ongoing oppression faced by those communities.
America has corporatized “Middle Eastern food” like hummus and falafel, and some people might live by halal food carts, but not understand or address the ongoing Islamophobia in the US.
Folks might love Mexican food, but not care about different issues such as labor equity and immigration policy that impact members from that community.
There are also really hurtful stereotypes connected to food where people of color get reduced to the food they eat or are called things like smelly because of their food consumption.
Eating food from another culture in isolation from that culture’s history and also current issues mean that we’re just borrowing the pieces that are enjoyable – palatable and easily digestible. We might not know how kung pao chicken also reflects a story about Chinese immigration or the complex colonial story behind curry and the homogenization of South Asian cultures.
5. Profiting from Oppression
More and more now, part of chefs’ culinary training also involves travel in order to learn about different cooking techniques and ingredients, and they’re opening up fancy restaurants that repurpose “cheap” eats from working class and poor communities that rely on affordable, local products and ingredients.
Food culture gets re-colonized by chefs seeking to make that “authentic” street food they tried more elegant. Often, these restaurants are inaccessible to the communities they’re appropriating from.
This is different from when members from that community repurpose their own traditional foods.
One of the questions that both chefs and diners should ask themselves is, who is laboring and profiting? Where are these recipes from?
Who is this cuisine profiting off, but not supporting – a group that is historically and currently oppressed?
Another problem is when ingredients get reappropriated. Corporations have now repackaged local food from different places in ways that make it no longer accessible to the local communities they’re from.
Quinoa, which is native to Bolivia is now too expensive for communities there. Last year, Whole Foods declared collard greens the “new kale.” Coconuts have now been packaged as high end, luxury water. Tofu, soy, and tempeh are now staples at organic, healthy food markets.
This is food gentrification, where communities can no longer afford their own cuisines and sustain their traditions.
***
Food is an important part of communities and cultures – the relationship between food and culture also means that food can be used as a tool of marginalization and oppression.
It’s okay if you love the taco truck outside of your workplace, love eating sushi, or enjoy trying out different recipes at home. I’m not against trying and cooking food outside your own culture – I love it, too.
However, it’s critical for us to reflect on how we perceive the cultures that we’re consuming and think about the relationships between food, people, and power.
Colonization and gentrification are directly related to the appropriation of food. We also need to begin educating ourselves on issues and event that impact the communities that we’re drawing our meals from.
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Rachel Kuo is a Contributing Writer for Everyday Feminism and a scholar and educator based in New York City. She is starting the doctoral program in Media, Culture, and Communications at New York University. Her professional background is in designing curriculum and also communications strategy for social justice education initiatives. Currently, she works full-time at NYU’s Center for Multicultural Education and Programs. You can follow her on Twitter @rachelkuo.
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LOL
https://archive.is/9qLbP
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Sounds to me like this person thinks diners and such need to stop being creative.
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Sounds to me like this person thinks diners and such need to stop being creative.
It sounds to me like this person simply can't enjoy a meal. :lol1:
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Sounds to me like this person thinks diners and such need to stop being creative.
It sounds to me like this person simply can't enjoy a meal. :lol1:
Acid reflux due to extremely strong and irrational opinions, no doubt.
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I think my girlfriend Leeanna might be a feminist because she keeps on denying me underwear time and making me sleep on the couch. Sleeping on the couch really hurts my bad back and gout foot, ya know what I mean?!?
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Girlfriend. :thumbup:
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I think my girlfriend Leeanna might be a feminist because she keeps on denying me underwear time and making me sleep on the couch. Sleeping on the couch really hurts my bad back and gout foot, ya know what I mean?!?
Most people here have no idea who Darksyde Phil is
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I think my girlfriend Leeanna might be a feminist because she keeps on denying me underwear time and making me sleep on the couch. Sleeping on the couch really hurts my bad back and gout foot, ya know what I mean?!?
Most people here have no idea who Darksyde Phil is
I'm Darksydegout, I'm just your average gamer trying to run a business on YouTube. Okay!?! My fans are highly intelligent people who ignore the sociopathic detractors and watch ONLY my quality content, okay? I didn't cancel Project 7, I put it on hold because I gotta lot of stress in my life. I mean, I gotta hang with my girlfriend Leeanna and do food blogs as well as play video games 7 hours a day, ya no whut I mean? And it's so hard to do because of my back gout.
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:dunno:
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:dunno:
That was my general response as well.
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I think my girlfriend Leeanna might be a feminist because she keeps on denying me underwear time and making me sleep on the couch. Sleeping on the couch really hurts my bad back and gout foot, ya know what I mean?!?
Most people here have no idea who Darksyde Phil is
I'm Darksydegout, I'm just your average gamer trying to run a business on YouTube. Okay!?! My fans are highly intelligent people who ignore the sociopathic detractors and watch ONLY my quality content, okay? I didn't cancel Project 7, I put it on hold because I gotta lot of stress in my life. I mean, I gotta hang with my girlfriend Leeanna and do food blogs as well as play video games 7 hours a day, ya no whut I mean? And it's so hard to do because of my back gout.
.....and who the devil might you be?
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I think my girlfriend Leeanna might be a feminist because she keeps on denying me underwear time and making me sleep on the couch. Sleeping on the couch really hurts my bad back and gout foot, ya know what I mean?!?
Most people here have no idea who Darksyde Phil is
I'm Darksydegout, I'm just your average gamer trying to run a business on YouTube. Okay!?! My fans are highly intelligent people who ignore the sociopathic detractors and watch ONLY my quality content, okay? I didn't cancel Project 7, I put it on hold because I gotta lot of stress in my life. I mean, I gotta hang with my girlfriend Leeanna and do food blogs as well as play video games 7 hours a day, ya no whut I mean? And it's so hard to do because of my back gout.
.....and who the devil might you be?
Duke Nukem
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.....and who the devil might you be?
OMG!! TA is back!! :GA:
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Can someone clarify for me, because I have not kept track: How much overlap is there between the folks on here who were griping that feminists didn't take on enough social justice issues beyond the concerns of wealthy white women and the ones who are now annoyed at intersectional feminism whining about too many social justice issues?
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Can't answer that one. I glance over this thread and see it is the same hand full of people posting similar stuff as always. Can't be arsed to really take in what is posted on threads about feminism or weapons on I2. So, I seldom reply. I now took a look at this thread because you had posted in it.
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Can someone clarify for me, because I have not kept track: How much overlap is there between the folks on here who were griping that feminists didn't take on enough social justice issues beyond the concerns of wealthy white women and the ones who are now annoyed at intersectional feminism whining about too many social justice issues?
I can't talk for everyone...I can talk for me though.
Firstly are the "Progressives" (Social Justice Warriors), Feminists? Yes. Are Feminists, Social Justice Warriors? Maybe. Some are and some are not. (For example, TERFs vs Transgender Feminists).
As to what Feminists claim they are "into", it is all very personal and subjective. I mistrust all Feminism. I do not think it is empowering for women, men or society on the whole.
I absolutely think that the Feminists we see on social media and writing for liberal press and heading online protests are Social Justice Warriors and are (pretty much to a person): Western, middle class, University educated (from prestigious universities), entitled,hypocritical, actively to seek to reform, censor, ban, intimidate, get people fired, shamed and humiliated IF they disagree, and owe loyalty to the ideology not reason/facts/people/friends.
As to the intersectional whining? The Progressive stack is idiotic. Get the crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist more of a say because they are better, more moral , or needs to be heard. No...not necessarily. Pass the microphone to whoever is best speaking about whatever it is you are addressing. If they means a straight white male, so be it. If that means a gay black female, so be it. If that means a crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist, so be it.
Dinisesh D'Souza makes a very interesting point about the mindset of the intersectional Privileged Feminist and the disconnect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWXZ-whusxY
I see it as all pretty dishonest and unconstructive
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Can't answer that one. I glance over this thread and see it is the same hand full of people posting similar stuff as always. Can't be arsed to really take in what is posted on threads about feminism or weapons on I2. So, I seldom reply. I now took a look at this thread because you had posted in it.
This.
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Can someone clarify for me, because I have not kept track: How much overlap is there between the folks on here who were griping that feminists didn't take on enough social justice issues beyond the concerns of wealthy white women and the ones who are now annoyed at intersectional feminism whining about too many social justice issues?
I can't talk for everyone...I can talk for me though.
Firstly are the "Progressives" (Social Justice Warriors), Feminists? Yes. Are Feminists, Social Justice Warriors? Maybe. Some are and some are not. (For example, TERFs vs Transgender Feminists).
As to what Feminists claim they are "into", it is all very personal and subjective. I mistrust all Feminism. I do not think it is empowering for women, men or society on the whole.
I absolutely think that the Feminists we see on social media and writing for liberal press and heading online protests are Social Justice Warriors and are (pretty much to a person): Western, middle class, University educated (from prestigious universities), entitled,hypocritical, actively to seek to reform, censor, ban, intimidate, get people fired, shamed and humiliated IF they disagree, and owe loyalty to the ideology not reason/facts/people/friends.
As to the intersectional whining? The Progressive stack is idiotic. Get the crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist more of a say because they are better, more moral , or needs to be heard. No...not necessarily. Pass the microphone to whoever is best speaking about whatever it is you are addressing. If they means a straight white male, so be it. If that means a gay black female, so be it. If that means a crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist, so be it.
Dinisesh D'Souza makes a very interesting point about the mindset of the intersectional Privileged Feminist and the disconnect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWXZ-whusxY
I see it as all pretty dishonest and unconstructive
I love how he makes the male feminazi stammer on social justice issues.
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Can someone clarify for me, because I have not kept track: How much overlap is there between the folks on here who were griping that feminists didn't take on enough social justice issues beyond the concerns of wealthy white women and the ones who are now annoyed at intersectional feminism whining about too many social justice issues?
I can't talk for everyone...I can talk for me though.
Firstly are the "Progressives" (Social Justice Warriors), Feminists? Yes. Are Feminists, Social Justice Warriors? Maybe. Some are and some are not. (For example, TERFs vs Transgender Feminists).
As to what Feminists claim they are "into", it is all very personal and subjective. I mistrust all Feminism. I do not think it is empowering for women, men or society on the whole.
I absolutely think that the Feminists we see on social media and writing for liberal press and heading online protests are Social Justice Warriors and are (pretty much to a person): Western, middle class, University educated (from prestigious universities), entitled,hypocritical, actively to seek to reform, censor, ban, intimidate, get people fired, shamed and humiliated IF they disagree, and owe loyalty to the ideology not reason/facts/people/friends.
As to the intersectional whining? The Progressive stack is idiotic. Get the crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist more of a say because they are better, more moral , or needs to be heard. No...not necessarily. Pass the microphone to whoever is best speaking about whatever it is you are addressing. If they means a straight white male, so be it. If that means a gay black female, so be it. If that means a crippled, psychologically unwell, mentally retarded, dwarven, black transgendered, female, autist, so be it.
Dinisesh D'Souza makes a very interesting point about the mindset of the intersectional Privileged Feminist and the disconnect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWXZ-whusxY
I see it as all pretty dishonest and unconstructive
I love how he makes the male feminazi stammer on social justice issues.
Me too. His Professor had the temerity to say to him "Teach him!". It gives a great idea on what they are like
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Can't answer that one. I glance over this thread and see it is the same hand full of people posting similar stuff as always. Can't be arsed to really take in what is posted on threads about feminism or weapons on I2. So, I seldom reply. I now took a look at this thread because you had posted in it.
This.
Yes.
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(http://rs1376.pbsrc.com/albums/ah5/Poogodandprinceofdarkness/IMG_2601_zps9gkwp7wt.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
Whales are fish. :zoinks:
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Big fat fish. :zoinks:
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Big fat fish. :zoinks:
Make me a big fat fish sammich!
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(http://rs1376.pbsrc.com/albums/ah5/Poogodandprinceofdarkness/IMG_2601_zps9gkwp7wt.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
Whales are fish. :zoinks:
Good old Trigglypuff!!
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https://mobile.twitter.com/cora_segal?lang=en
Her whole feed is gold. :trollface:
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Big fat fish. :zoinks:
Make me a big fat fish sammich!
:zoinks:
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Laci green gets dissected
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2IAlYO7C2yU
Laci greens hypocrisy exposed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0aYOrz1s8LU
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myrwKlh2wwA
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Male feminist onision's takedown of laci green
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tLirtk0LSyM
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Anti-feminist Bearing's takedown of sexual predator Onision:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQDxUQ3YwDI
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Im well aware of his history and drama. I was going to start a thread on him because he's funny.
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Laci Green is only famous because of her tits.
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(https://31.media.tumblr.com/2fdf97119438209075a3f142fe6f95a9/tumblr_ncenrbYN2e1tgpna0o1_r1_500.gif)
Typical millennial behavior.
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The projection is strong with this one. Does he remind anybody of a certain member here? He got fired from his job when people complained to the company he worked for because of the crap he said.
(http://truthfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-12-05-at-6.09.57-AM.png)
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Today I made a gargantuan sandwich for a group of men. :orly: I don't know why feminists don't like making men sandwiches. It was super easy with no mess, and they treated me like a freaking rock star. :roses:
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Zoe Quinn Is An Abuser
ozymandias
2 years ago
Preliminaries
First: I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT ENDORSE HARASSMENT OF ZOE QUINN OR OF ANYONE ELSE. DO NOT HARASS PEOPLE. DO NOT BE MISOGYNIST AT PEOPLE. DO NOT SEND DEATH OR RAPE THREATS TO PEOPLE. DO NOT DOX PEOPLE. Even if someone is an abuser, they are entitled to not being harassed, doxxed, or subjected to misogyny.
Second: apologism for harassment or abuse will get your comment deleted and I will consider banning you.
Third: I do not have an opinion about most Gamergate-adjacent issues, because the only video games I have played in my entire life are The Sims and a bunch of Twine games mostly themed around mental illness, transness, or transhumanist BDSM. I cannot imagine a world in which it would be reasonable for me to have an opinion (Incidentally, this game is neat and contains none of the above.) The Gamergate opinions I have are:
Anita Sarkeesian is almost painfully liberal feminist and anyone who calls her a radical feminist needs to read more Dworkin
“Five Guys” is a slut-shaming and misogynist joke and people should be ashamed of themselves
Many Gamergate people are not motivated by fighting abuse, but instead by anti-feminism; notice how quickly Anita Sarkeesian got tied into the whole thing, and that she (a) is not involved in the Zoe Post (b) has never abused anyone but she is (c) a fairly prominent feminist in video gaming whom a lot of people hate for no discernible reason.
We should all ignore Christina Hoff Sommers and hope she goes away.
#NotYourShield certainly contains some sockpuppets, but claims that they are majority sockpuppets seem to be less motivated by evidence and more motivated by the desire to believe that no women, LGBT people, and people of color disagree with social justice.
Gamers are probably sexist and gaming is probably an environment hostile to women, because to a first approximation everyone is sexist and every male-dominated environment is hostile to women. (Not a gamer, have no opinion about specifics of whether it is more hostile than anywhere else.)
People need to stop Internet-diagnosing Zoe Quinn with borderline personality disorder, because I have BPD and it makes me sad.
Please stop calling misogynists fat Aspie neckbeards. I know many fat people with Asperger’s and poor grooming habits who would never dream of being misogynist.
I agree with Ken White, who is a very sensible human being
and, most crucially for this post, Zoe Quinn is a textbook emotional abuser.
The Evidence
Cheating is morally wrong, but it is nonabusive. Similarly, lying to your partner is morally wrong, but absent a relationship in which you establish power and control, it is nonabusive. However, Zoe Quinn’s response to Eron Gjoni figuring out that she was cheating and lying does enter the realm of abuse.
Eron describes his relationship with Zoe in the Zoepost:
This was part of a fun little emergent two player power / head game she decided to play with me. The gist of the rules seemed to be as follows:
If boyfriend relates observations that lead to a correct belief, girlfriend is to make up false reason to explain observations. If boyfriend backs down, girlfriend wins.
If boyfriend doesn’t back down, and notes girlfriend’s reason conflicts with other observations, girlfriend must get angry and demand boyfriend trust her unconditionally. Boyfriend must then choose between trusting girlfriend, or trusting his own ability to so much as reason clearly.
If boyfriend chooses to trust girlfriend, girlfriend must demand he trust her about something that contradicts something else she demands he trust her about. When boyfriend cannot possibly act in any way that doesn’t violate one of her principles or claims, girlfriend must establish he is going insane. If boyfriend succumbs to additional bouts of anxiety spent questioning his own sanity — girlfriend wins: multiply points by number of hours longest panic attack lasts.
If boyfriend does not back down, and decides instead to trust his own ability to think clearly, girlfriend must threaten to break up with boyfriend. If boyfriend backs down, girlfriend wins.
If boyfriend continues trusting simple reasoning, girlfriend must actually break up with boyfriend (for a period of time no shorter than 1 hour and not exceeding 2 days). If boyfriend does not bring up the subject again, girlfriend wins.
If boyfriend does not back down, and figures that since the relationship is over, he might as well try to get the universe to make sense, girlfriend must figure out some way to break up with him *even more*. If boyfriend drops the subject, girlfriend wins. If boyfriend does not drop the subject, repeat step 6 — point multiplier for number of times step 6 is repeated until girlfriend wins.
If boyfriend calls bullshit on the whole thing and breaks up with girlfriend, boyfriend wins. This is the only winning condition for boyfriend.
It is not normal behavior to get angry at your partner unless they believe mutually contradictory things. It is not normal behavior to convince your partner that they are going insane in order to cover up your lying and cheating. That is gaslighting, and that is abusive.
Zoe Quinn attempted to isolate her partner by demanding that he stop being friends with someone who had previously expressed romantic interest in him, even though the relationship was platonic, she had no reason to distrust Eron, and the friend was going through a hard time. The use of romantic jealousy to isolate people from their friends is a tactic of abuse. Although she did not manage to isolate Eron completely (but then they’d only been dating for a few months, give her time), the fact that she tried to do it once is a major red flag.
Furthermore, throughout the logs, Zoe engages in a repeated pattern of shifting the blame from herself to Eron. She blames her cheating on Eron not loving her; she blames her lies on Eron not trusting her immediately after he had discovered her cheating. She guilt-trips Eron when he tries to set boundaries. She constantly lies and withholds information, far beyond what would be necessary to cover up her cheating– from claiming to be tested when she hadn’t to contradicting herself about her emotions and desires. It’s important to note that, while blame-shifting, guilt-tripping, and lying and withholding are unhealthy, everyone engages in unhealthy relationship patterns sometimes, particularly when they’re angry. However, in nonabusive relationships, both partners eventually take responsibility for their part in problems, respect their partners’ boundaries without guilting them, and tell the truth before they get called on it. Zoe Quinn, on the other hand, blame-shifts continually and with no self-awareness about what she’s doing and no taking accountability.
Zoe Quinn repeatedly threatens suicide when her bad behavior is brought up and at one point attempts suicide in the middle of an argument. This is inherently abusive. That is not about mental illness: I myself am a person who sometimes becomes suicidal when people criticize me and I am speaking from a position of knowledge. No one wants to do something that makes someone they love feel suicidal. That gives suicidal people and people willing to fake suicidality a tremendous amount of power to shut down criticism, push their partner’s boundaries, and convince people not to leave them. This doesn’t mean not talking about your suicidality, not taking care of yourself, or not leaving situations that make you suicidal. It is possible to responsibly be like “this conversation is making me feel suicidal; I’d like to continue discussing it, but can we take a break for an hour?” and then seek support from someone else to get yourself in a good place. Telling your partner “I should kill myself” when they are talking about how you hurt them is not that. It is an act of abuse.
Finally, Zoe Quinn received a restraining order to keep Eron Gjoni from speaking up about his abuse, thus using the legal system to silence her victim. In her affidavit, she used Eron’s “admitted mental instability”– a self-diagnosis of schizoid personality disorder– as evidence that he was abusive, which is absurdly ableist (particularly given that people with SPD are no more likely to abuse than anyone else).
(Note that the restraining order contains disturbing allegations that Eron Gjoni has called hotels he suspected Zoe was staying at in order to dox her, an act of stalking. I have been unable to find evidence about whether these allegations are true or false and will update this post if I find any such information. If true, I consider it to be an act of abuse and harassment as well. ETA: A friend of Eron’s privately contacted me to say that a person had claimed to have met Zoe at a hotel and Eron had called the hotel to find out if Zoe had made a reservation during the time period the person claimed; however, I have no way of knowing if this is what happened.)
For further information, see the Zoe Post and this excellent video series which goes extensively through individual logs to show the patterns of Zoe’s abusive behavior.
Why Doesn’t Anyone See It?
Why the pro-Gamergate people didn’t see it seems fairly obvious to me. Early on, a lot of the discussion of Gamergate occurred on 4Chan. While 4Chan has many excellent qualities, such as such creative and abundant use of the word “fag” that “gayfag” had to be coined to refer to the ordinary homosexual, nuanced and sensitive discussion of the complexities of emotional abuse is not among them. Furthermore, the Gamergate story was taken up by prominent members of the misogynist asshole community, such as Roosh V and Vox Day, whose previous contributions to discourse around abuse include ““No” when you try to take off her panties means… “Don’t give up now!”” and “the concept of marital rape is… an attack… on the core foundation of human civilization itself“.
(#NotAllGamergaters, of course.)
So perhaps it’s not surprising that the narrative became largely “she CHEATED on her BOYFRIEND with FIVE MEN, that SLUT.” And, to their credit, many Gamergate people do seem to recognize that Zoe Quinn is emotionally abusive, although they phrase it in the traditional way of their quaint local dialect, namely, “that bitch is crazy.”
(“That bitch is crazy”, unfortunately, is a homonym, with the other meaning being “that female has needs and desires!” I never said it was a very good quaint local dialect.)
But for feminists, abuse is sort of their whole gig. So why didn’t feminists get it?
First: a lot of feminists uncritically accepted the Gamergate framing. Let’s be real, the Zoe Post is long and no one wants to read through the endless, endless logs. If what people seem to be leading with is “Zoe Quinn cheated on her boyfriend!” with a sprinkling of “Zoe Quinn is a slut!” for taste, it’s really easy as a feminist to conclude that the allegations against Zoe Quinn are nothing more than cheating and sluthood, and then to respond with “there is nothing wrong with being a slut, and whether she cheated matters primarily to her romantic partners, not to the Internet-going public.” This narrative, for obvious reasons, was supported by Zoe Quinn herself, who has an obvious interest in allowing everyone to believe the only issue was her cheating.
Second: arguments are soldiers: “once you know which side you’re on, you must support all arguments of that side, and attack all arguments that appear to favor the enemy side; otherwise it’s like stabbing your soldiers in the back—providing aid and comfort to the enemy.” People line up on the Yay Zoe Quinn and Boo Zoe Quinn sides, and the Yay Zoe Quinn side has some important points about feminism and the treatment of female game devs and maybe not calling people sluts. If you acknowledge that Quinn gaslit Gjoni and that maybe he is not just a “jilted ex”, you weaken Team Yay Zoe Quinn. Indeed, I myself have been assumed to be pro-harassment simply because I think that Quinn probably abused Gjoni. (WHICH I AM NOT. HARASSMENT IS WRONG.)
Third: people don’t take abuse of men seriously. We live in a culture in which studies of rape prevalence still consider a cis man forced into PIV sex with a woman to not be raped, in which reproductive coercion is talked about as something men do to women even though it is the only form of abuse men are more likely to suffer than women (NISVS; search for “control of reproductive or sexual health”), and in which Lundy Bancroft can characterize women abusing men as “couples where the man is the nice guy and the woman is the not-nice person” and still be heralded as an anti-abuse advocate. While feminists are better than most groups about acknowledging abuse of men, a phrase which here means “the majority of feminists at least acknowledge it can happen”, feminists have not totally overcome patriarchal conditioning.
Fourth: people don’t take emotional abuse seriously. All too often, people consider “emotional abuse” to be a synonym for “bad relationship.” But emotional abuse isn’t the same as fighting a lot or even calling each other names; it’s the systematic establishing of power and control over your partner through psychological means. And the consequences show it. Emotional abuse survivors suffer from poor physical and mental health. Even after controlling for physical violence, level of emotional abuse affects basically every kind of mental health consequence of abuse from depression to low self-esteem to stress level, and may even be a better predictor of PTSD and depression than physical abuse. Once again, this is something that feminists should in theory be better about, but not everyone is.
Fifth: people think that it’s a private matter. I agree that many sorts of relationship misbehavior are private matters. If Eron Gjoni were actually a jilted ex who was upset his partner cheated on him, he would have no call to tell the Internet about it. But abuse is not a private matter, as feminists have discussed endlessly. Abuse has serious physical and emotional consequences for the victims. The majority of abusers repeatedly abuse. An abuse survivor who is public about their experiences– and this is a tremendously private decision and I would never say it should be mandatory– allows future partners to make an informed decision and potentially avoid being abused themselves. If you would like your abuse not to be public, then I recommend that you not abuse people. After you have abused someone, your right to have others not know about this is revoked.
In conclusion: I believe the balance of evidence shows that Zoe Quinn emotionally abused Eron Gjoni. This does not justify harassment against her or invalidate critiques of sexism in gaming. However, I think we should at least acknowledge her abuse in our condemnations, reconsider making her a Perfect Flawless Feminist Hero, and stop fucking calling an abuse survivor a “jilted ex” or accusing him of being a narcissistic misogynist for outing his abuser.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thingofthings.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/zoe-quinn-is-an-abuser/amp/?client=safari
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Why are you bringing up Gamergate??
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2eSwfGLzagY
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2eSwfGLzagY
She's ripping off of Valerie Solanas and the Scum Manifesto.
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I darned my socks, yesterday.
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I darned my socks, yesterday.
Gosh darn it. :zoinks:
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Heck is where you go if you don't believe in gosh.
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Heck is where you go if you don't believe in gosh.
Bummer!
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(http://www.truthrevolt.org/sites/default/files/styles/content_full_width/public/field/image/articles/shout_it_out.jpg?itok=Bc-jWvAS)
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Heck is where you go if you don't believe in gosh.
What the Gosh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24e-B00iiws
Because reasons.
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I don't think I like tom and jerry with words. :dunno:
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I love Tom & Jerry. I watched it all the time as a kid. I think that scene is one of the best moments, apart from this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrp-K0D_SuA
I also love Dr Jekyll and Mr Mouse, that one doesn't have words. And The Flying Cat, and a bunch of others. Texas Tom is excellent too.
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I don't think I like tom and jerry with words. :dunno:
Do you ever forget that you're a talking gopher?
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(http://www.memecenter.com/fun/5741155/the-stupidity-of-feminists-is-like-a-bottomless-pit-credits-to-metallion-for-the-bottom-image)
'Castrate him!': Game Of Thrones star Richard Madden targeted online by angry women for sitting on Tube with legs too far apart
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2425018/Game-Of-Thrones-star-Richard-Madden-targetted-angry-women-taking-space-Tube.html
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Can't see the image.
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Can't see the image.
(http://img.memecdn.com/the-stupidity-of-feminists-is-like-a-bottomless-pit-credits-to-metallion-for-the-bottom-image_o_5741155.jpg)
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Can't see the image.
(http://img.memecdn.com/the-stupidity-of-feminists-is-like-a-bottomless-pit-credits-to-metallion-for-the-bottom-image_o_5741155.jpg)
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6642
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I love Tom & Jerry.
I like Tom and Jerry too, but they don't usually talk and I think I like it better that way.
I don't think I like tom and jerry with words. :dunno:
Do you ever forget that you're a talking gopher?
If we could hang out in real life, I'd gladly pantomime for you. You could even pick the music. :zoinks:
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I don't think I like tom and jerry with words. :dunno:
Do you ever forget that you're a talking gopher?
Talking gophers are even more ridiculous than talking cats and mice. (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_108.gif) :trollface:
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(http://s3.amazonaws.com/campusreform/6642/zandrob27.PNG)
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I don't think I like tom and jerry with words. :dunno:
Do you ever forget that you're a talking gopher?
Talking gophers are even more ridiculous than talking cats and mice. (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_108.gif) :trollface:
They're almost as ridiculous as people who talk to them. :zoinks:
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(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah5/Poogodandprinceofdarkness/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_2438_zpssndlo3v4.jpg)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRBodKsgTA&app=desktop
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRBodKsgTA&app=desktop
I do sometimes wonder if these idiots will see themselves and their actions captured on fil. In 20 years time and just say
" I was such an entitled araehole. Fuck Feminism"