INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Parts on March 28, 2008, 06:04:29 AM
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Parents Pick Prayer Over Docs; Girl Dies
Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.
An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.
She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.
The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.
She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.
"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."
Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.
The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.
Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.
"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."
The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked if an ambulance should be sent.
"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."
The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.
But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.
She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.
"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."
The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.
Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
What the hell is wrong with these people :grrr: I don't really care if they die themselves they are adults but their kids really don't have any say in the matter
Nothing criminal? How a bout moral when their daughter was completely treatable if there is a god I don't think he'd look kindly on this when it could have been prevented
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I don't think God would thank them for refusing medical treatment either. What are they, stupid? :o
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On the bright side, at least they helped to clean up some of the mess they made in the gene pool.
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wtf? their daughter was actually bright, unlike their sorry selves.
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This planet is getting over-crowded.
People have to die, I don't really care who or how.
I did not know this girl so I don't think it's sad at all.
:yawn:
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i think it'sad. stupid parents don't get that the medicine comes from god through people. PEOPLE. DOCTORS. jesus. :toporly:
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This planet is getting over-crowded.
People have to die, I don't really care who or how.
I did not know this girl so I don't think it's sad at all.
:yawn:
How heartless. :'(
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ha handeh. :zoinks:
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This planet is getting over-crowded.
People have to die, I don't really care who or how.
I did not know this girl so I don't think it's sad at all.
:yawn:
How heartless. :'(
Awww, poor bubba, need a kleenex?
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wtf? their daughter was actually bright, unlike their sorry selves.
The parents are probably intelligent too, but not everything comes down to raw IQ. Neurological studies have found structures in the brain that are responsible for certain religious experiences such as 'feeling god', and this could be every bit as heritable as schizophrenia. That's not to say that everyone who's religious has this schizophrenia-like condition or that everyone who does have it will end up a religious nut, but the chances are that the children are carrying their parent's tendency towards religious nuttery in some form or other.
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i think atheism is also hereditary like schizophrenia. :toporly:
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This planet is getting over-crowded.
People have to die, I don't really care who or how.
I did not know this girl so I don't think it's sad at all.
:yawn:
How heartless. :'(
Awww, poor bubba, need a kleenex?
Not really, because I was merely poking fun at your misanthropy.
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wtf? their daughter was actually bright, unlike their sorry selves.
The parents are probably intelligent too, but not everything comes down to raw IQ. Neurological studies have found structures in the brain that are responsible for certain religious experiences such as 'feeling god', and this could be every bit as heritable as schizophrenia. That's not to say that everyone who's religious has this schizophrenia-like condition or that everyone who does have it will end up a religious nut, but the chances are that the children are carrying their parent's tendency towards religious nuttery in some form or other.
i think atheism is also hereditary like schizophrenia. :toporly:
:lol: Peters statement did seem to be loaded with suggestion.
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We have to decide whose responsibility killing off children is.
If it's the parents, these should be rewarded. If it's society's as
a whole, then the state should step in and raise slaughter
them all.
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I choose death
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That's so sad, because the daughter could have been saved if they had taken her to the doctor sooner.
Maybe if they had taken her even the day before she died, she would have been OK.
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I think you also have to consider what medical care costs now days. Sure you don't want your kids to die of something easily treatable, but California is pretty expensive state to live in. A lot of people do not have health insurance now, and even if they do it is still expensive. Furthermore, there are plenty of doctors and treatments that can make whatever condition someone has, worse rather than better. I know I've had tiredness and various things and seen doctors for it, and really, they were not able to find anything or do anything for it.
I think espeacailly when you have a large family like that you have to consider the well being of everyone, not just one person.
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Yes, but diabetes could have been treated with insulin injections and/or other medications and careful attention to diet. Yes, life-long treatment could be expensive, but the alternative would be to just let your child die.
My perspective may be different from yours, because I have a child who needed extensive medical intervention when she was a baby and from my point-of-view she was worth it.
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wtf Taimaat? you'd rather save a few bucks?
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I found this site last year:
http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/victims.htm
it's sad
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What if the one person who die because of lack of money who have gone on to do something great?
There was a time I was written off as a moron by by school because of my problems
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wtf Taimaat? you'd rather save a few bucks?
What's wrong with THAT?
Hell, we spend way too much on
expendable humans, as it is.
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I went through a time recently where we didn't have medical insurance, and my husband just had a contract job. We were not making enough to keep up with the cost of where we lived really, because he saw himself as being less than he was and thought he needed the experience. Well, yeah initiation is certainly an experience, it shattered all my illusions of how I though the “real world” was.
I would take my child, (or my pet, my husband or myself) to the doctor if I thought it would be more likely to heal than harm, but in some cases, I think it would defiantly create more issues than it would solve. I know some people have the luxury of being taken care of, but you have to think of all those children in poor countries who don't get basic medial care who probably die of diseases like that all the time.
America (where I live) becomes more like that every day, because we really don't have much for our lower classes to do anymore (like the old factory jobs that went overseas to china), except go over and fight the war in Iraq, and you can only do that if you are healthy. Sure they have service sector jobs, but those don't really pay the standard of living people used to here. I hear my husband bitch day in and day out about this, because I think he misses the security of the world his parents grew up in, but those days are no longer here, and we have to accept that if we want a better life.
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There's also an issue of quality of medical care. If you go into
the emergency room, with some ailment, as many of those without
insurance do, quite often you're going to see a lesser level of care
than you would seeing a family doctor who's used to you.