INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Icequeen on November 29, 2018, 05:25:33 PM
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Far-right conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer handcuffed herself to the front door of Twitter’s corporate offices in New York on Thursday.
“Twitter is upholding sharia when they ban me for tweeting facts about sharia law,” shouted Loomer, who is Jewish and donned a yellow Star of David on her jacket, which appears to suggest that losing your Twitter account is similar to the Nazi persecution of Jews.
She said she will not remove the handcuffs until Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey reinstates her account.
CNN’s Andrew Kaczynski reported Thursday afternoon that Loomer said she would stay handcuffed all night but was “getting cold and no longer has the key.”
Police have told Loomer that Twitter won’t be pressing charges and that she can stay chained to their door as long as she wants.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/right-wing-conspiracist-laura-loomer-handcuffs-herself-to-door-of-twitters-office_us_5c005574e4b0b69ed37943fb
:laugh:
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:lol1:
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Too bad she's in New York.
I could give her some good anal reaming while she's cuffed to the door. :anal:
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
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Because she posts facts about Sharia Law. She’s also a closet Nazi :orly:
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
If she looks right wing from your point of view, then she's gonna look far-right from the perspective of a centrist or a lefty.
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
Since she's jewish, they probably wouldn't have her. :laugh:
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Funny, in so many ways. :laugh:
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
If she looks right wing from your point of view, then she's gonna look far-right from the perspective of a centrist or a lefty.
I am left of centre myself.
I know little about her. I know Mr Meteokur had fun giving her shit and she has Conservative viewpointS. But what FAR Right viewpoints does she hold and how are these viewpoints different to the standard views of the average Conservative
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
If she looks right wing from your point of view, then she's gonna look far-right from the perspective of a centrist or a lefty.
I am left of centre myself.
I know little about her. I know Mr Meteokur had fun giving her shit and she has Conservative viewpointS. But what FAR Right viewpoints does she hold and how are these viewpoints different to the standard views of the average Conservative
I wouldn't know her from a bar of soap.
But... HOLY CRAP!!! If you're left of centre, what the heck does that make me?
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How is she "far right"?
She IS right wing and she may well be a loon BUT how is she far right?
If she looks right wing from your point of view, then she's gonna look far-right from the perspective of a centrist or a lefty.
I am left of centre myself.
I know little about her. I know Mr Meteokur had fun giving her shit and she has Conservative viewpointS. But what FAR Right viewpoints does she hold and how are these viewpoints different to the standard views of the average Conservative
I wouldn't know her from a bar of soap.
But... HOLY CRAP!!! If you're left of centre, what the heck does that make me?
Depends on what your views are on a number of issues:
How do you feel about freedom of speech?
Abortion rights?
The funding of the Arts?
Gay Marriage?
Welfare?
Religious Freedoms?
Corporal Punishment?
Capital Punishment?
Women's Rights?
Men's Rights?
Traditional Lifestyles?
The role and scope of the Government on Corporations and Private Citizens?
Taxation?
Progressive issues of Oppression and privilege?
I would dare say if I were plotted against any of these things I would show as I have in the past that I am MUCH closer to the Moderate Conservative than what I am to the Progressive and IF the Moderate Liberal exists I aqm probably about as close to them as the Conservatives that I generally disagree with.
What do I mean? Well MOST topics I am MOSTLY on the Left somewhat.
Example.
Someone on the Right (no not FAR RIGHT) may say about Gay Rights "Look marriage is between a man a man and a woman and that is what that institution and union is. It is very specific and it is a church mandated institution and designed for the family. To protect and raise the family.Gay marriage simply is a different thing. I have no issue with gay people wanting to be partnered but that is not the religious institution of marriage. You start here and suddenly it will expand to it being discrimination if religious folk to have to support and host these marriages, parties and celebrations"
A Progressive may say "Anyone who does not support the equality of Gay marriage is a bigot and needs to be punished and publicly exposed. Equal rights for all people regardless of their sexuality or gender expression. They are citizens like everyone else. If non-homosexual people can get married in a church, get fitted and tailored for their wedding, cater, honeymoon, and attend as a married couple any event then so should a homosexual married couple. This is 2018 and bigots who attempt to push back against this need to be called out and held into account for the bigots they truly are"
Me: "If gay person wants to get married to a straight person or a gay person who am I to object and why should I care? It does not affect me or anyone really. I think people should be allowed to marry who they love so long that they love each other and are consenting adults, have at. HOWEVER I also recognise that there are people that do not wish to join in and actually object to gay marriage. It is just as integral to their identity. I'm not gay and I am not religious and they both should have a measure of protection to go about their lives without being persecuted and without being able to use these freedoms to oppress anyone."
So I am neither Conservative nor Progressive. I am generally not inclined to support the Right position but Progressives take things too far. Progressives are less sane than the Conservative moderates. This is an example of many of my views.
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But... HOLY CRAP!!! If you're left of centre, what the heck does that make me?
Well there's 2 things in play here.
1st is the Overton window, it's shifted fairly far left in the past 10 years so now "conservatives" find themselves defending the liberal values of the 1960's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
2nd is the horseshoe theory of politics. The further you go towards the extremes, the more ideas they share in common. The best recent example of this was the "Grievance Studies Affair" where an academic writing under a pseudonym was able to get chapter 12 of Mein Kampf published in a respected feminist studies journal, simply by swapping in feminist jargon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
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I am left of centre myself.
:rofl:
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But... HOLY CRAP!!! If you're left of centre, what the heck does that make me?
Well there's 2 things in play here.
1st is the Overton window, it's shifted fairly far left in the past 10 years so now "conservatives" find themselves defending the liberal values of the 1960's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
2nd is the horseshoe theory of politics. The further you go towards the extremes, the more ideas they share in common. The best recent example of this was the "Grievance Studies Affair" where an academic writing under a pseudonym was able to get chapter 12 of Mein Kampf published in a respected feminist studies journal, simply by swapping in feminist jargon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
I almost fell off my seat because I thought you were Minister of Silly Walks.
Yes you are right.
In years gone past we have the Religious Right trying to insinuate their ideology and political and religious leanings into everything to censor and protect us from wrong think. It was wrong then.
Now what are the progressives doing. The same damn thing and it is wrong for the same reasons. As you say, it is the horseshoe principle.
But I've said it before, 5-10 years ago most people on the Left were moderate Liberals. Most people on the left now identify as Progressives. Progressives are not Liberals. They were the radical Leftists of 5-10 years ago.
I was close in political alignment to the Moderate Liberals of yesteryear. I agreed mostly. I was slightly more Centrist. But in general discussions I was only disagreeing on nuances and inconsequential points. Mostly I would agree.
I do not agree with much the Progressives have to offer, nor their place in the political or cultural or academic area, nor do I agree with their methods to push their agendas.
They are too far left. I find more in common with Libertarians and far more reasonable discussions with them and people Right of centre.
I actually think it is a shame.
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Al, maybe you're left of center as of 1630, but not any period since.
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Clever Calandale. Perhaps you are right (Right). I will check because I am genuinely interested. Perhaps my "Liberal (read....not Progressive) principles have metamorphised rather than stayed static whilst the rest of the Left has marched further Left from me.
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Al, correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't you consider Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party to be a bunch of leftists?
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Oh, Al's just confused because there's "socialism" in "national socialism" and he's a bit dense.
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Oh, Al's just confused because there's "socialism" in "national socialism" and he's a bit dense.
If you consider Hitler and the Nazis to be left of centre, that leaves a lot of room for all sorts of ideas to be considered leftist.
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Oh, Al's just confused because there's "socialism" in "national socialism" and he's a bit dense.
If you consider Hitler and the Nazis to be left of centre, that leaves a lot of room for all sorts of ideas to be considered leftist.
Yes. Like Al.
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Oh, Al's just confused because there's "socialism" in "national socialism" and he's a bit dense.
If you consider Hitler and the Nazis to be left of centre, that leaves a lot of room for all sorts of ideas to be considered leftist.
And it's a common thought on the right - that fascism, because of the heavy handed government, is leftist.
They paint the distinction between left and right entirely in terms of government intervention. This is a very
clear and simple way to define the spectrum.
Yet, the strange thing is that, regardless of these 'ideals', policies of the right often don't align that way,
fitting more into the less clear, and more mainstream view that it is the policies which define the spectrum.
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Al, correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't you consider Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party to be a bunch of leftists?
Their ideology originated from the left, they were anti-capitalist socialists until they came to power and realized they needed to make deals with corporations in order to get anything done.
The only real difference from pre 1933 Nazis and Communists was that the Marxists were an international movement that didn't care about race (at least on the surface) while the Nazis were clear that their brand of socialism was exclusively for the "master race".
Other than that, they were two peas in a pod.
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Al, correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't you consider Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party to be a bunch of leftists?
Their ideology originated from the left, they were anti-capitalist socialists until they came to power and realized they needed to make deals with corporations in order to get anything done.
The only real difference from pre 1933 Nazis and Communists was that the Marxists were an international movement that didn't care about race (at least on the surface) while the Nazis were clear that their brand of socialism was exclusively for the "master race".
Other than that, they were two peas in a pod.
Yes and more than that. From what Political camp do you believe they shared the belief of racial superiority and of seizing land and assets of minorities to allow the national citizens more? I mean people can play the "big switch" until the cows come home BUT this was prior to the supposed big switch. What pre-1950's American political party was expressing the kind of racial bigotry, supremacy, and immorality of the above? I will give you the hint : NOT Republicans.
Left or Right touted Gun Confiscations and Gun Control?
Left or Right believed in Big Government Socialism?
It is of course not to say that he was not evil nor clinically insane nor correct in what he did.
But WAS he Right or Left?
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The truth is that right vs. left don't aptly describe conservative. Conservativism properly is an attempt
to hew to the older standards and views. In the 19th century, there was no question that this centered
on authoritarian rule in most countries.
In the US, it was better aligned with classical liberal laissez-faire principles.
One problem though was (and this is the true curse of conservatism) things changed. So, in order to
remain relevant, conservative principles became aligned with robust foreign policy, often focused on
propping up right-wing regimes (conservative in their own countries), sometimes enhanced federal
law enforcement and prosecution (a la the McCarthy excesses) Too, the laissez-faire principles, which
favored the wealthy, generated an alignment between conservatives and big business, which, instead of
being quite so laissez-faire, started incorporating legal structures and mechanisms to tilt the playing
field further.
Liberalism also went through its shifts in meaning, but less rooted in traditional ideas. It was the negation
of conservatism. Early on, this ment removal of the aristocratic barriers, but as time went on, it included
removing wealth barriers, to give everyone a fairer shake. The first was a breaking down of state limitations,
whilst the latter was creating new ones.
One must live with how the labels evolve though. And that evolution includes seeing the facists as right wing
despots and the communists and left wing ones - based largely upon whether they support the existing structures
of wealth and power, or seek to create a new one. :P
Until recently, there was little sign of any strong tendencies toward a political move toward either flavor of
authoritarian rule in the US. MacArthur, Long, and some others embodied certain aspects, but never garnered
the support to lead a major party. Maybe Nixon came closest, seeming to believe he was above the law, but
he didn't tend to brag about it outright.
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Yes. Conservatism tend to my mind to have much to do with a want of traditional values and principles. A lack of flexibility in reacting to new values, trends or societal mores. Liberalism has been more open-minded and accepting of these. The Conservatives are about reducing the influence of the government and giving people more power. The Liberals are about recognising the Government as a safety net and a regulating force in society.
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I think as a further point to the above, that neither principle is inherently good or bad. In the same way that I do not think people believing in God is inherently bad or not believing in God is inherently bad.
Moderation tends to be okay with political ideas. The problem is the extremists and when the hardliners get any kind of political or cultural capital.
As soon as you get one side actively seeking to undermine, censor, divest, dehumanizing the other, then the only answer is for the opposing camp to meet them on the same terms and let the best side win.
That is one of the reasons I thought the Russia collusion thing and special counsel was so bad. Apart from the whole accusation and smear in search for a crime, it actually green lights the other side to use similar tactics.
It is a never-ending race to the bottom. It has in my mind risen because of the Progressivism that has got it hooks into so much of the cultural and because both moderate Liberals and Moderate Conservatives were cowed by Progressives who regularly called anyone who questioned them a bigot and sought to deplatform them (in an Authoritarian move disguised as protecting and being moral) it is the same as the motive of the Religious Right of years ago. The counter to this is Trump.
I would be happy for the power to shift to the centre and into the hands of moderates from either side but there will be some pain before that happens. Progressives need to have power wrested from them and hopefully the pendulum will not go hard right after that.
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'Moderate' too moves about though. And not always monolithically.
For example, some issues (racial, sexual preference) have swung far to the
traditional Democrat side, while others (tax rate, unions) away. It's easier
to use the party labels, as those are less pejorative, and easier to directly
align to policies.
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I agree that the traditional labels of left and right, or conservative and progressive, are not nearly as clearly defined as they could be.
Conservatives tend to be pro-business and seek to encourage the success of business. And pro-law-and-order as well. And oppose socially progressive movements like feminism and marriage equality.
From my perspective I can see a lot of progressives in American politics but not a lot of leftists apart from Bernie Sanders.
In Australia there is a resurgence of workers' union activism, and that is a good thing IMO. We can't keep lurching to the right forever.
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I agree that the traditional labels of left and right, or conservative and progressive, are not nearly as clearly defined as they could be.
Conservatives tend to be pro-business and seek to encourage the success of business. And pro-law-and-order as well. And oppose socially progressive movements like feminism and marriage equality.
From my perspective I can see a lot of progressives in American politics but not a lot of leftists apart from Bernie Sanders.
In Australia there is a resurgence of workers' union activism, and that is a good thing IMO. We can't keep lurching to the right forever.
Oh please, the Universities (and now schools) have been Progressive bastions for decades and the Media certainly has been.
There are definitely a lot of popular radio hosts that push Right Wingery
The Liberals here are politically probably close to where Bill Clinton was. Labour is further Left and the Greenies further Left still.
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The Liberals here are politically probably close to where Bill Clinton was.
Which is somewhat to the right of Nixon.
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The Liberals here are politically probably close to where Bill Clinton was.
Which is somewhat to the right of Nixon.
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One of the reasons that left and right, progressive and conservative, are so difficult to define these days is that the centre has moved so much.
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Some forget how it was the Democratic Party who wanted to keep slavery, not to mention the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. What a Nazi he was. :orly:
And to the pedant to the left, I am well aware that the Nazi Party didn’t exist until long after Lincoln’s death. :deadhorse2:
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Lincoln inflicted various tyrannical mechanisms on the government, in order to force states which
did not wish to be ruled by him to be under his control.
If any one person destroyed the United States, turning them into something very different,
it would be he.
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Lincoln inflicted various tyrannical mechanisms on the government, in order to force states which
did not wish to be ruled by him to be under his control.
If any one person destroyed the United States, turning them into something very different,
it would be he.
It was actually genius. Any slave that makes it north is free and can join the U.S. army to fight.
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Not that. Little things like suspending Habeas Corpus, an unconstitutional income tax, and the equally
unconstitutional draft. As well as subverting the whole idea of real state's power.
Once you go down a path of tyranny, no matter how well intentioned (keeping the country together),
yet more will follow.
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Not that. Little things like suspending Habeas Corpus, an unconstitutional income tax, and the equally
unconstitutional draft. As well as subverting the whole idea of real state's power.
Once you go down a path of tyranny, no matter how well intentioned (keeping the country together),
yet more will follow.
Well he did get his brains blown out for it. :P
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A little late. And none of the other disasters (Andy Jackson, FDR, Wilson) paid a similar price.