INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Jesse on September 24, 2013, 06:29:02 PM
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This is really better than any soap opera I have ever seen on daytime TV.
Senator Cruz is doing the only thing possibly human he can do. he is litterly talking until he is blue in the face
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2555052454001/ (http://video.foxnews.com/v/2555052454001/)
Interestingly enough, I don't know much about him. but I have been watching him for the last few hours, and he does make some good points for a peanut with a top hat. :orly: and, really. its like this everytime your current party isn't in power. bitch and complain about how you don't like the agenda being pushed through, (the democrats have done this aswell, in the past) so you guys Non-Essential government activities will be suspended on Oct. 1st unless my some miraculous event the republicans let up on the dick fucking their pussy currently. (Obamacare)
One thing that I did note in listening to Cruz speak is how he "Cares" about young people and how they wont be able to find a job because of Obamacare. Holy shit, I Loled then. Hard! :laugh:
How do you think the current debacle in congress will play out?
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I am quite confident that the Tea Party will get their way yet again. I've even stopped signing petitions to congress or the president. Waste of time. It's time to take matters out of their hands.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
They don't need the Senate. We need them to pass a budget or another one of the ridiculous "continuing resolutions" that basically says the government will spend the money it has already promised to spend. Then the debt ceiling is coming up. They can do basically whatever they want, as long as that doesn't include passing legislation, which clearly it doesn't.
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Meh. They're all idiots. Third graders have better negotiating skills.
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Meh. They're all idiots. Third graders have better negotiating skills.
They are not actually trying to negotiate.
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It's all politics.....and money.
Cruz is simply trying to make a name for himself with the tea party base so that he can run for president in 2016 and lose.
Then he will sell his memoirs for money.
It is my understanding that most republicans in the house hate him. They are simply giving him enough rope to hang himself
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Cruz is a faggot, but so are all other politicians. Also: I don't see any negotiating. I see a bunch of shitflinging and men of power forcing their wills on everyone around them.
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It is funny watching these bitches trying to pin the tail on the donkey. who will cause the government shutdown? will it be Obama? because he wants to fund a law already in existence? Or, will it be the Butthurt party? the guys who threw everything at this exept the kitchen sink and yet couldn't kill it?
Will there heroics pay off? stay tuned ladies and gentleman until next time to find out who the American people take a shit on! :trollface:
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
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The only real victory possible will be in getting people so fed up with the current state of the federal government that they change who gets to control it.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
The Affordable Care Act really does it for you? ;)
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
The Affordable Care Act really does it for you? ;)
the idea that so many who currently cannot receive decent health care will undr the ACA is fucking great.
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If the government is shut down, I predict that Lit will move over here! :viking:
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
The problem is not really the affordable care act, even though I think its flawed. The problem is the fact that our president is a king.
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chickens squawk at dawn. and they also squawk at all other times of the daylight. they might even squawk at night sometimes.
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Anonymous - #OpNSA Obama (Barack Obama) Message for the world (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh70i5Hig5o#)
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
The Affordable Care Act really does it for you? ;)
the idea that so many who currently cannot receive decent health care will undr the ACA is fucking great.
Indeed
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
The problem is not really the affordable care act, even though I think its flawed. The problem is the fact that our president is a king.
Wrong thread
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
The problem is not really the affordable care act, even though I think its flawed. The problem is the fact that our president is a king.
Wrong thread
Fuck you, that's the root of most of our problems. I'll post it until you like it.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
The problem is not really the affordable care act, even though I think its flawed. The problem is the fact that our president is a king.
Wrong thread
Fuck you, that's the root of most of our problems. I'll post it until you like it.
:yawn:
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
The problem is not really the affordable care act, even though I think its flawed. The problem is the fact that our president is a king.
Wrong thread
Fuck you, that's the root of most of our problems. I'll post it until you like it.
:yawn:
:violin:
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
It does.
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
It does.
Then there is yet hope...
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
It does.
Then there is yet hope...
I think you've been spending too much time here. ;)
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
It does.
Then there is yet hope...
I think you've been spending too much time here. ;)
Jack Nicholson. Why do people keep saying that to me?
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I tried digging shit out of my ass when I was constipated and it worked
That's a good story. Have you ever had white dandruff stuff come out of your vagina?
i farted moths
I'm sure that counts.
It does.
Then there is yet hope...
I think you've been spending too much time here. ;)
Jack Nicholson. Why do people keep saying that to me?
Because you're acting as if this place was ASDC.
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I'd just love to see the federal government system itself crash and burn.
At the very first, when obama bin laden got in, I hoped that maybe he would be better than Bush and others. But oh no, the crooked fucking spear chucker seems determined to turn the US into a surveillance and police state (or rather, should I say, MORE of a police state) and generally violate everybodys rights to privacy and security of their person and property.
Bush was notorious for his program of targeted assassinations of ragheads using unmanned drone aircraft. Our little nigger friend should have shut it down, but no, he did no such thing. And even deployed the drones first against militants in combat, then came back to open up on medical personnel who had come to treat the injured and recover bodies.
And how about this? Coon chops even deployed the drones to open fire upon FUNERALS of the ragheads killed, to kill relatives and mourners.
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So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said "Yes", indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes.
So, a week later, there's a soda machine. Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides "OK, we'll ask again" and again, the majority of people say "Yes, lets keep the soda machine." Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine.
This happens, lets say... 35 times.
Eventually, Bill says "OK, I'M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED", so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine. What should we do???
Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the f***ing job.
Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to "Negotiate", to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine.
Bill is a f***ing jackass.
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Let me give you a more correct perspective.
So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said "Yes", indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes.
So, a week later, there's a soda machine. Now imagine that the soda machine is far more expensive than you were told, and it carries none of the beverages anyone else likes. On top of that, management has a private, much cheaper soda machine with all the sodas they like in a room none of the other employees are "allowed" to access.
Imagine that some guy named bill got angry about this, while everyone else was too apathetic or brainwashed to actually make a big deal out of it. After bill campaigns a bit, he manages to wake some people up around the office, and they realize that they don't have to me lied to. Well, management decides "OK, we'll ask again" while apologizing and promising to change the selection of sodas and lower the price. Additionally they cause scenes at work, distracting people from becoming impassioned about the gyp of the soda machine. And again, the majority of people say "Yes, lets keep the soda machine."
Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine.
This happens, lets say... 35 times.
Eventually, Bill says "OK, I'M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED OR REPLACED BY A MORE REASONABLE ONE", so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine. What should we do???
Answer: Fire Bill AND MANAGEMENT and get someone who will do the f***ing job.
Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to "Negotiate", to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to a solution that wasn't a drain on everyone's wallet. Namely, management keeping the promises they made to begin with.
Bill is a f***ing jackass. And so is management. And so are the majority of the employees. Anyone who blames only one of these groups is a fucking brainwashed moron.
Yeah. Bonus bonus, one of those memes you hate so much, Possum.
Guile Theme Goes With Everything (Dramatic Chipmunk) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuQHiMKm2CI#)
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The signals only started 3 days ago.
It doesn't even really start until the new year, dummy. They have no idea how expensive its going to be. You are buying political talking points, dummy.
And besides, the actual cost, ESTIMATES (for emphasis) have actually been coming in lower than expected. Dummy.
Check this out, it is called the affordable care act. It is meant to insure over 20 million Americans which cannot currently get insurance since the industry is a scam. And in order for it to be affordable for all, they have the individual mandate (shared risk pool) which should keep the costs down.
There is so much more to this law that I bet you haven't even bothered to research.
Stick with the talking points kid.
Oh yeah, poopy!
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The signals only started 3 days ago.
It doesn't even really start until the new year, dummy. They have no idea how expensive its going to be. You are buying political talking points, dummy.
And besides, the actual cost, ESTIMATES (for emphasis) have actually been coming in lower than expected. Dummy.
Check this out, it is called the affordable care act. It is meant to insure over 20 million Americans which cannot currently get insurance since the industry is a scam. And in order for it to be affordable for all, they have the individual mandate (shared risk pool) which should keep the costs down.
There is so much more to this law that I bet you haven't even bothered to research.
Stick with the talking points kid.
Oh yeah, poopy!
Here we go with the dummy shit again.
By insuring over 20 million americans, that money is being taken out of our economy. Our economy is based on a capitalist design, so what do you think is going to happen when people can't just go out and buy a bunch of floating barbeque grills for their pool on a whim anymore? Employers are also not going to supply their employees with the finest healthcare available, because they are running a business. They're going to go for the cheapest option they can in order to keep things from cutting into profits, generally. Not to mention the HUGE list of politicians that have wormed exemptions for themselves into these legislations.
These facts are easily distinguished by a gradeschooler, and are not political talking points. I think YOU are the one buying into rhetoric without actually thinking about it for yourself. Faggot. Besides. All I did was tell a story about a coke machine. How did you get political talking points out of that, and how did you know EXACTLY what I was talking about? I'm interested in real solutions, Jag. Not a bunch of politicians throwing us half ass patches and fighting over which is the best one, running into their respective rooms and slamming the door when they can't have their way.
ALL the politicians are fucking dicks.
Ohh I see. Because I said something, it must have included political talking points. You should automatically hate and oppose anything I have to say, because I am secretly a republican, GW's son, and I work for the NSA. :laugh:
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
I notice how you stated that, but didn't directly accuse me of it after reading my prior post. You passive aggressive cunt, you.
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
I notice how you stated that, but didn't directly accuse me of it after reading my prior post. You passive aggressive cunt, you.
although focused, I bet living in your mind is a wild ride.
If you need a friend, I'd be happy to have discussions with you. If you need someone to beat on, I'm not your huckleberry.
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
I notice how you stated that, but didn't directly accuse me of it after reading my prior post. You passive aggressive cunt, you.
although focused, I bet living in your mind is a wild ride.
If you need a friend, I'd be happy to have discussions with you. If you need someone to beat on, I'm not your huckleberry.
If YOU need a friend, i'll thank you to show me the same respect and decency you would expect to be shown to you. When you hit people, they hit back. Its nature.
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Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Voter initiatives nationwide!
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Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Voter initiatives nationwide!
in essence, that's how California is run.
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
I notice how you stated that, but didn't directly accuse me of it after reading my prior post. You passive aggressive cunt, you.
although focused, I bet living in your mind is a wild ride.
If you need a friend, I'd be happy to have discussions with you. If you need someone to beat on, I'm not your huckleberry.
If YOU need a friend, i'll thank you to show me the same respect and decency you would expect to be shown to you. When you hit people, they hit back. Its nature.
actually, I'm not in the market.
And, projecting, you wear it well.
Poopy
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So you assume. Your logic, based upon your hatred of politicians, means its going to cost more than expected. When in reality, nobody knows.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
ACA is barely underway and won't be in effect until 2014.
Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Talking points because that is what the conservative talking heads and tea party republicans keep saying. It is untrue and disingenuous.
I notice how you stated that, but didn't directly accuse me of it after reading my prior post. You passive aggressive cunt, you.
although focused, I bet living in your mind is a wild ride.
If you need a friend, I'd be happy to have discussions with you. If you need someone to beat on, I'm not your huckleberry.
If YOU need a friend, i'll thank you to show me the same respect and decency you would expect to be shown to you. When you hit people, they hit back. Its nature.
actually, I'm not in the market.
And, projecting, you wear it well.
Poopy
Ugh you're annoying. I JUST PROVED that's what you do, quoting your own posts!
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Huh?
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Don't play dumb.
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Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Voter initiatives nationwide!
in essence, that's how California is run.
It's not just California. Twenty four states have some form of voter initiative (two of them only allow it for constitutional amendments) http://iandrinstitute.org/statewide_i%26r.htm (http://iandrinstitute.org/statewide_i%26r.htm)
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Yeah, lets just fucking leave everything to the politicians and have no say in things. That's the American way.
Voter initiatives nationwide!
in essence, that's how California is run.
It's not just California. Twenty four states have some form of voter initiative (two of them only allow it for constitutional amendments) http://iandrinstitute.org/statewide_i%26r.htm (http://iandrinstitute.org/statewide_i%26r.htm)
Mine doesn't :thumbdn:
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Neither does mine.
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Neither do mine.
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(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1208730_449498761835378_796784775_n.jpg)
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(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1381877_654154984650577_1447248833_n.jpg)
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The best way to celebrate a government shutdown? Tecate and international volleyball :laugh:
"Americans and Mexicans playing volleyball over the border in Arizona"
(http://i.imgur.com/s1FGJgV.jpg)
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^For some reason the Volvo 240 in the picture fascinates me.
Possum seems to sum up this whole government shutdown thing with her Bill in accounting stopping the payrolls. What gets me more worried here, though, is that the shutdown is just a consequence of other, bigger problems.
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^For some reason the Volvo 240 in the picture fascinates me.
Possum seems to sum up this whole government shutdown thing with her Bill in accounting stopping the payrolls. What gets me more worried here, though, is that the shutdown is just a consequence of other, bigger problems.
That's what we do in America. :autism: Do you know how Social Security works?
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So why is Congress and America gendered? Are they trying to reproduce?
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^For some reason the Volvo 240 in the picture fascinates me.
Possum seems to sum up this whole government shutdown thing with her Bill in accounting stopping the payrolls. What gets me more worried here, though, is that the shutdown is just a consequence of other, bigger problems.
is that the shutdown is just a consequence of other, bigger problems.
I've only been screaming about them at the top of my lungs for like, forever.
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I read earlier today that the Chinese are reacting, now. They are worried, and they should be.
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Seriously. Debt ceiling hits on the seventeenth. I cannot even begin to describe what a massive pile of kakadookie this all is.
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There is no getting away from the will of the people.
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/p320x320/988305_10200882490961531_1159923338_n.jpg)
Huehuehue
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I read earlier today that the Chinese are reacting, now. They are worried, and they should be.
Btw:
MUST WATCH! JP MORGAN ADMITS ECONOMIC COLLAPSE IS COMMING WATCH NOW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrf6tjdmIY#)
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
The Affordable Care Act really does it for you? ;)
the idea that so many who currently cannot receive decent health care will undr the ACA is fucking great.
They will go from not receiving decent healthcare, to receiving about the same standards of care and paying more for it. Bonus: Now everybody else has to as well.
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:CanofWorms:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/06 (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/06)
Reasons to Lose Sleep over the Shutdown and Obamacare
by Scott McLarty
Sure, the government shutdown and Republican demands regarding the Affordable Care Act (ACA) are reprehensible, but let's not delude ourselves about the ACA itself.
It's needlessly complex. It preserves medical treatment as a commodity rather than a right: low-cost policies will provide low-quality insurance. It imposes a direct public subsidy to feed the insurance industry, which helped write the legislation. It isn't universal.
Millions of people who lacked it will now have health insurance, but the coverage they get won't approach the level of health-care access guaranteed to every citizen in every other democratic nation.
Obamacare is a Republican idea. It's based on the individual mandate, an idea introduced by the conservative pro-business Heritage Foundation, promoted by Republican leaders, and enacted in Massachusetts by Gov. Romney. Republicans only began to detest it circa 2009 when President Obama and Democrats made it part of Obamacare.
Conversely, progressives only began to support it when the ACA was introduced. Barack Obama opposed it during his presidential campaign but changed his mind in 2009.
Is it obnoxious to suggest that the dispute over Obamacare was always more about partisan loyalties than substance?
The shutdown will probably end when establishment Republicans convince Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and his fellow Tea Partiers that they've had their fun and now it's time to let adults run the show again. The main GOP objection to Obamacare is the "Obama" part. The legislation's real defects aren't important to the GOP.
GOP Agenda and Obamacare
Republicans are expert at aggravating crises and using instability to ram through their agenda: destroying social programs, privatizing resources and services, deregulating big business, recreating the dismal economic conditions of the Robber Baron Era. (Naomi Klein described this in her book "Shock Doctrine.")
Republicans can usually count on Democratic presidents and congressional leaders (who are subject to the same lobby and campaign-contribution influences as the GOP) to capitulate or compromise, sometimes without a fight, as President Obama did during the summer 2011 budget talks that resulted in sequestration.
They often rely on Dems to pursue GOP agenda without GOP help. President Obama's secretly negotiated Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact, proposed Social Security reductions, and debt-expanding military actions would have been recognized as Republican ten years ago -- as would the ACA.
The ACA became a capitulation from the moment Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Chair of the Senate Finance Committee, declared single-payer national health care "off the table" during health-care reform panels in 2009. Single-payer advocates were barred from the panels, while insurance and other health-care industry representatives were invited to make sure their own interests were protected in the new legislation. Even the public option was dropped.
The capitulation has serious consequences, a few of which I mentioned above. One consequence was reported in the New York Times on October 2: "A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help.... Because they live in states largely controlled by Republicans that have declined to participate in a vast expansion of Medicaid, the medical insurance program for the poor, they are among the eight million Americans who are impoverished, uninsured and ineligible for help."
By sacrificing universal health care, the new law accommodated Republican disregard for the poor in the 26 states that have rejected Medicaid expansion. The ACA isn't a victory for the millions, maybe tens of millions of Americans for whom insurance and medical costs will remain beyond reach or require a hefty percentage of their income. Or for those who will still face financial ruin over a medical emergency. (For a more detailed critique, see Scott Tucker's interview with Dr. Don McCanne of Physicians for a National Health Program.
These consequences won't be disturbed when the shutdown ends and immediate funding for the ACA prevails. The ACA was designed to be partial solution to the crisis of skyrocketing medical costs that bankrupt working Americans, even those with insurance, and the lack of insurance for millions more.
Useful Idiots
The context of the government shutdown is a dispute within the GOP between traditional types and "kill the government" fundamentalists associated with the Tea Party.
Are we witnessing an implosion of the GOP? We can only hope so, but it's more likely we'll see a return to bipartisan business as usual: two factions of a corporate-money party arguing over the best way to satisfy the country's One-Percenters. (See "The Shutdown Game" by Glen Ford in Black Agenda Report, Oct. 2)
One Percent aren't really interested in shrinking government. They prefer laws and government that more efficiently and generously serve their interests. They want Washington to remove barriers to markets, profits, and consolidation into monopolies and cartels, even when it means destroying the middle class and plunging working Americans into helplessness.
Plutocracy's sole interests are money and power. Ideologies and economic theories are for little people, endowed academic seats, bow-tie wearing newspaper columnists, and other suckers.
To the plutocrat, the Tea Party libertarian is a useful idiot. The plutocrat is grateful that the libertarian supports Walmart as a beacon of free-market competition and prosperity, while Walmart crushes small-business competitors and hires employees at wages that force them to rely on social services.
The plutocrat thanks the libertarian for demanding deregulation of Wall Street derivatives in the name of free movement of capital, while ordering pet politicians to insure derivatives trading with taxpayers' money against multi-billion and multi-trillion dollar losses.
Plutocrats (with some exceptions, like the Koch brothers) transcend party and can live with any law or policy that allows them to boost the bottom line. The health-care debate between Dems and Repubs was rigged from the beginning by the One Percent, which made sure that insurance companies would continue to make a killing whether the ACA was passed or defeated.
What About Medicare For All?
Let's imagine another scenario. A bloc of Democratic Congress members is willing to shut down government rather than vote yea on a budget with funding for another war like the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Good or bad?
What if several Congress members had risked a shutdown in 2009 over the declaration that Medicare For All was "off the table" and that pro-single-payer physicians and consumer advocates would be banned from the health-care reform panels?
These are fantasies. Anti-war and progressive Democrats in Congress are too timid to consider such actions.
In contrast, Tea Partiers in Congress, fueled by the generosity of billionaire plutocrats, have no reservations about how they accomplish their goals.
The only solution for America's dismal health-care delivery system is Medicare For All -- a single-payer plan that guarantees universal care. We'll only win Medicare For All with a movement that goes beyond polite lobbying, with street protest as vigorous as Occupy Wall Street and a concerted effort to replace politicians in office.
The latter requires a voter rebellion and campaigns that are independent of the two corporate-money parties.
It means resisting the predictable claim of Democratic leaders, after the shutdown ends, that the GOP's retreat on the ACA is a victory for everyone who opposes the Tea Party and we shouldn't complicate that victory by demanding Medicare For All.
If we lose sleep during the government shutdown, I hope it's because we're pondering ways to surpass the Tea Party in asserting our own political power.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License
Scott McLarty
Scott McLarty serves as media coordinator for the Green Party of the United States and for the DC Statehood Green Party. He can be reached at mclarty@greens.org.
-
:CanofWorms:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/06 (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/06)
Reasons to Lose Sleep over the Shutdown and Obamacare
by Scott McLarty
Sure, the government shutdown and Republican demands regarding the Affordable Care Act (ACA) are reprehensible, but let's not delude ourselves about the ACA itself.
It's needlessly complex. It preserves medical treatment as a commodity rather than a right: low-cost policies will provide low-quality insurance. It imposes a direct public subsidy to feed the insurance industry, which helped write the legislation. It isn't universal.
Millions of people who lacked it will now have health insurance, but the coverage they get won't approach the level of health-care access guaranteed to every citizen in every other democratic nation.
Obamacare is a Republican idea. It's based on the individual mandate, an idea introduced by the conservative pro-business Heritage Foundation, promoted by Republican leaders, and enacted in Massachusetts by Gov. Romney. Republicans only began to detest it circa 2009 when President Obama and Democrats made it part of Obamacare.
Conversely, progressives only began to support it when the ACA was introduced. Barack Obama opposed it during his presidential campaign but changed his mind in 2009.
Is it obnoxious to suggest that the dispute over Obamacare was always more about partisan loyalties than substance?
The shutdown will probably end when establishment Republicans convince Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and his fellow Tea Partiers that they've had their fun and now it's time to let adults run the show again. The main GOP objection to Obamacare is the "Obama" part. The legislation's real defects aren't important to the GOP.
GOP Agenda and Obamacare
Republicans are expert at aggravating crises and using instability to ram through their agenda: destroying social programs, privatizing resources and services, deregulating big business, recreating the dismal economic conditions of the Robber Baron Era. (Naomi Klein described this in her book "Shock Doctrine.")
Republicans can usually count on Democratic presidents and congressional leaders (who are subject to the same lobby and campaign-contribution influences as the GOP) to capitulate or compromise, sometimes without a fight, as President Obama did during the summer 2011 budget talks that resulted in sequestration.
They often rely on Dems to pursue GOP agenda without GOP help. President Obama's secretly negotiated Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact, proposed Social Security reductions, and debt-expanding military actions would have been recognized as Republican ten years ago -- as would the ACA.
The ACA became a capitulation from the moment Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Chair of the Senate Finance Committee, declared single-payer national health care "off the table" during health-care reform panels in 2009. Single-payer advocates were barred from the panels, while insurance and other health-care industry representatives were invited to make sure their own interests were protected in the new legislation. Even the public option was dropped.
The capitulation has serious consequences, a few of which I mentioned above. One consequence was reported in the New York Times on October 2: "A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help.... Because they live in states largely controlled by Republicans that have declined to participate in a vast expansion of Medicaid, the medical insurance program for the poor, they are among the eight million Americans who are impoverished, uninsured and ineligible for help."
By sacrificing universal health care, the new law accommodated Republican disregard for the poor in the 26 states that have rejected Medicaid expansion. The ACA isn't a victory for the millions, maybe tens of millions of Americans for whom insurance and medical costs will remain beyond reach or require a hefty percentage of their income. Or for those who will still face financial ruin over a medical emergency. (For a more detailed critique, see Scott Tucker's interview with Dr. Don McCanne of Physicians for a National Health Program.
These consequences won't be disturbed when the shutdown ends and immediate funding for the ACA prevails. The ACA was designed to be partial solution to the crisis of skyrocketing medical costs that bankrupt working Americans, even those with insurance, and the lack of insurance for millions more.
Useful Idiots
The context of the government shutdown is a dispute within the GOP between traditional types and "kill the government" fundamentalists associated with the Tea Party.
Are we witnessing an implosion of the GOP? We can only hope so, but it's more likely we'll see a return to bipartisan business as usual: two factions of a corporate-money party arguing over the best way to satisfy the country's One-Percenters. (See "The Shutdown Game" by Glen Ford in Black Agenda Report, Oct. 2)
One Percent aren't really interested in shrinking government. They prefer laws and government that more efficiently and generously serve their interests. They want Washington to remove barriers to markets, profits, and consolidation into monopolies and cartels, even when it means destroying the middle class and plunging working Americans into helplessness.
Plutocracy's sole interests are money and power. Ideologies and economic theories are for little people, endowed academic seats, bow-tie wearing newspaper columnists, and other suckers.
To the plutocrat, the Tea Party libertarian is a useful idiot. The plutocrat is grateful that the libertarian supports Walmart as a beacon of free-market competition and prosperity, while Walmart crushes small-business competitors and hires employees at wages that force them to rely on social services.
The plutocrat thanks the libertarian for demanding deregulation of Wall Street derivatives in the name of free movement of capital, while ordering pet politicians to insure derivatives trading with taxpayers' money against multi-billion and multi-trillion dollar losses.
Plutocrats (with some exceptions, like the Koch brothers) transcend party and can live with any law or policy that allows them to boost the bottom line. The health-care debate between Dems and Repubs was rigged from the beginning by the One Percent, which made sure that insurance companies would continue to make a killing whether the ACA was passed or defeated.
What About Medicare For All?
Let's imagine another scenario. A bloc of Democratic Congress members is willing to shut down government rather than vote yea on a budget with funding for another war like the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Good or bad?
What if several Congress members had risked a shutdown in 2009 over the declaration that Medicare For All was "off the table" and that pro-single-payer physicians and consumer advocates would be banned from the health-care reform panels?
These are fantasies. Anti-war and progressive Democrats in Congress are too timid to consider such actions.
In contrast, Tea Partiers in Congress, fueled by the generosity of billionaire plutocrats, have no reservations about how they accomplish their goals.
The only solution for America's dismal health-care delivery system is Medicare For All -- a single-payer plan that guarantees universal care. We'll only win Medicare For All with a movement that goes beyond polite lobbying, with street protest as vigorous as Occupy Wall Street and a concerted effort to replace politicians in office.
The latter requires a voter rebellion and campaigns that are independent of the two corporate-money parties.
It means resisting the predictable claim of Democratic leaders, after the shutdown ends, that the GOP's retreat on the ACA is a victory for everyone who opposes the Tea Party and we shouldn't complicate that victory by demanding Medicare For All.
If we lose sleep during the government shutdown, I hope it's because we're pondering ways to surpass the Tea Party in asserting our own political power.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License
Scott McLarty
Scott McLarty serves as media coordinator for the Green Party of the United States and for the DC Statehood Green Party. He can be reached at mclarty@greens.org.
I'd say that's about right.
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Nobody is loosing healthcare, or loosing quality healthcare. That's fucking rumour mongering. A lot more people are receiving it. And decent quality at that. Lives are saved. Life expectancy increased. CHild mortality decreased. Fertility/population will eventually start dropping, poverty will allay itself, and kaBOUEY!
I myself am enjoying the fact that I get to keep my fathers healthcare for a few more years. He has really good healthcare via the school system so this is great. And good to know that I won't have to hurry up and get all checkups in because now when I come of age, I can't still get decent healthcare. A load off my back. I can only imagine for those with chronic illnesses or severe issues. They must be quite ALIVE.
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Nobody is loosing healthcare, or loosing quality healthcare. That's fucking rumour mongering. A lot more people are receiving it. And decent quality at that. Lives are saved. Life expectancy increased. CHild mortality decreased. Fertility/population will eventually start dropping, poverty will allay itself, and kaBOUEY!
I myself am enjoying the fact that I get to keep my fathers healthcare for a few more years. He has really good healthcare via the school system so this is great. And good to know that I won't have to hurry up and get all checkups in because now when I come of age, I can't still get decent healthcare. A load off my back. I can only imagine for those with chronic illnesses or severe issues. They must be quite ALIVE.
I'm afraid it isn't decent quality, Sg. The quality of your healthcare will not improve in the longrun. I would bet money on that.
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But will the quality of health care of the uninsured improve? I think that's the question.
I get good health insurance through work. It's much better than I got on the NHS when I was living in Scotland. But the folks who are already being treated well are not the ones Obamacare is aimed at.
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But will the quality of health care of the uninsured improve? I think that's the question.
I get good health insurance through work. It's much better than I got on the NHS when I was living in Scotland. But the folks who are already being treated well are not the ones Obamacare is aimed at.
The truth is, the minority of citizens will obtain a higher quality of healthcare because they have none. Even if someone already has mediocre quality healthcare though, they may actually be forced to adhere to lower standards than they had in the first place. And the worst thing is, everyone will be affected.
Its like a virus.
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But will the quality of health care of the uninsured improve? I think that's the question.
I get good health insurance through work. It's much better than I got on the NHS when I was living in Scotland. But the folks who are already being treated well are not the ones Obamacare is aimed at.
Thats in the bill too. Long term it wants to start assessing doctors based on the quality of the care they give, not the number of patients they see- which is a huge relief for both patients and doctors as that is the number 1 complaint and barrier to good healthcare is the quotas doctors are expected to meet without making time to really spend with patients. That doesn't go into effect till later, like 2016 or something. Everything is going in phases. The healthcare bill wasn't thrown together hodgepodge quickity snippety- there were actually a lot of smart people sitting down to do this- people who could rep doctors, nurses, patients, families, fiscal stuff, etc. It has all the hallmarks of something really good, and of course it can be improved upon- everything can be improved upon. But it is fucking awesome.
Who woulda thought that if we take care of one another that it would actually be good for society? /sarcasm
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And it isn't a minority of people. Sure a "minority" in terms of minorities and disadvantaged communities, who actually make up a majority. I know at least half of my city will and is already benefitting- from students who can stay on their parents plan, to women who can get free contraceptive planning, to families who would otherwise watch their children, spouses or whoever die, to families who would otherwise avoid the doctors office until it was a true emergency.
As someone who worked in the hospital for 3 years, and was volutnteering there for 4, I know doctors, nurses, and patients PERSONALLY, and it isn't a bloody minority.
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Lol, there was that AWFUL gap between the initial passing of the bill, and now, when patients were 'inbetween' shitty plans and waiting for the Affordable care act to go in. That cost hospitals- ppl were preparing, and thats why the first day the major part of the act went into effect (8 days ago or so) lines were stretched far and phones were backed up because of the volume of people signing up. Now it will steadily get better, and I am really happy.
The rest who don't need it, don't have to have anything to do with it. They have nothing to complain about. In fact their care should be improving soon enough once the other parts of the bill go into play becuase docs will be able to actually do their job.
The fact that ppl with healthcare are complaining is just ridiculous, selfish, and completely misguided. Nothing is being "forced", thats the politicians trying to make it seem like some socialist agenda that will turn us into nazi germany or whatever conspiracy they are pooping out of their arses.
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You should let this thing rest for a while. For a couple of days or so. Calm down.
And talk about it again on the 18th. :zoinks:
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You should let this thing rest for a while. For a couple of days or so. Calm down.
And talk about it again on the 18th. :zoinks:
:beergrin:
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Lol, there was that AWFUL gap between the initial passing of the bill, and now, when patients were 'inbetween' shitty plans and waiting for the Affordable care act to go in. That cost hospitals- ppl were preparing, and thats why the first day the major part of the act went into effect (8 days ago or so) lines were stretched far and phones were backed up because of the volume of people signing up. Now it will steadily get better, and I am really happy.
The rest who don't need it, don't have to have anything to do with it. They have nothing to complain about. In fact their care should be improving soon enough once the other parts of the bill go into play becuase docs will be able to actually do their job.
The fact that ppl with healthcare are complaining is just ridiculous, selfish, and completely misguided. Nothing is being "forced", thats the politicians trying to make it seem like some socialist agenda that will turn us into nazi germany or whatever conspiracy they are pooping out of their arses.
Explain how its not being forced, fella. I really want to know how you can see this.
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Defund the goddamn drug war. NOW!
It will save billions every year and this money can be used for things that benefit people: Like affordable healthcare and social security.
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That was actually a reasonable suggestion, Cartman. I'm shocked.
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Unfortunately, SG, the individual mandate does mean we are required by law to own an insurance policy. There is no public option or single-payer, and in red states like mine there will be no expansion of Medicaid. You can give money you don't have to an insurance company, or you can go without and pay a fine.
There's a lot of garbage on the right wing about the country being bankrupted or crop circles or something, but that bit is true.
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Indeed it is. :thumbup:
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There's a lot of garbage on the right wing about the country being bankrupted or crop circles or something, but that bit is true.
That bankruptcy is the real problem, here. You can shut down your government for a while and that will hurt your credit worthiness, not to mention your credibility, but that bankruptcy risks everything.
What amazes me is that it's not news. It's been known for decades.
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I read earlier today that the Chinese are reacting, now. They are worried, and they should be.
Everyone should be very worried. A U.S Default would likely trigger another great depression.
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There's a lot of garbage on the right wing about the country being bankrupted or crop circles or something, but that bit is true.
That bankruptcy is the real problem, here. You can shut down your government for a while and that will hurt your credit worthiness, not to mention your credibility, but that bankruptcy risks everything.
What amazes me is that it's not news. It's been known for decades.
Yes.. it.. HASSS.. *veins pop out on forehead*
MY COUNTRY IS SUFFERING BRAIN DAMAGE
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Ah, just read up on the info about being required by law to buy an insurance policy. It doesn't seem unreasonable- either you're insured or you pay a tax. They call it a penalty, but its a tax. It is only collected via your tax returns; and while you file your taxes you indicate whether you need to be exempt. There are a lot more reasons for exemptions than I would have thought- for instance you don't have to pay if you recently experienced domestic abuse.
This is where I found info (if u scroll to the bottom you can pick a question):
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/#question=how-is-the-penalty-collected (https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/#question=how-is-the-penalty-collected)
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Ah, just read up on the info about being required by law to buy an insurance policy. It doesn't seem unreasonable- either you're insured or you pay a tax. They call it a penalty, but its a tax. It is only collected via your tax returns; and while you file your taxes you indicate whether you need to be exempt. There are a lot more reasons for exemptions than I would have thought- for instance you don't have to pay if you recently experienced domestic abuse.
This is where I found info (if u scroll to the bottom you can pick a question):
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/#question=how-is-the-penalty-collected (https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/#question=how-is-the-penalty-collected)
You're also exempt if you work for the president.
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Beginning in 2018, I get to pay about $9000 more in taxes, per year, because of my 'Cadillac' health insurance.
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Beginning in 2018, I get to pay about $9000 more in taxes, per year, because of my 'Cadillac' health insurance.
If you have insurance you don't have to pay a tax.
But...$9000? I am pretty sure this is a joke but I don't get it... :apondering:
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In the last two years we have seen our insurance go from great to mediocre and our out of pocket costs close to triple while the cost for the policy go up 40%
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Beginning in 2018, I get to pay about $9000 more in taxes, per year, because of my 'Cadillac' health insurance.
If you have insurance you don't have to pay a tax.
But...$9000? I am pretty sure this is a joke but I don't get it... :apondering:
I know.
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Beginning in 2018, I get to pay about $9000 more in taxes, per year, because of my 'Cadillac' health insurance.
If you have insurance you don't have to pay a tax.
But...$9000? I am pretty sure this is a joke but I don't get it... :apondering:
I know.
What does it mean?
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Beginning in 2018, I get to pay about $9000 more in taxes, per year, because of my 'Cadillac' health insurance.
If you have insurance you don't have to pay a tax.
But...$9000? I am pretty sure this is a joke but I don't get it... :apondering:
google the Cadillac insurance tax.
My benefits are valued at between 40-50 thousand per year.
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I don't believe the tea party will win this war. they don't have the votes in the senate, the only house they control is the house.
So, one of two things will happen.
1. the government will shut down
2. or obamacare will be inacted
Harry Reid will gut the provision in it that defunds Obamacare which in turn will make the Budget Null that congress passed, so the Government will shut down.
Or atleast that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.
Obamacare will be enacted regardless of governmental shutdown. 80% of the funds used for Obamacare are mandatory spending not subject to Congressional appropriations. That's where this fight becomes really stupid, as it literally cannot be won.
i am so turned on by you.
The Affordable Care Act really does it for you? ;)
the idea that so many who currently cannot receive decent health care will undr the ACA is fucking great.
It's amazing how much McJ misunderstood politics.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
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:lol1:
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Yeah.... these are interesting times.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
I don't wish him any harm, I just wish him gone.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
I don't wish him any harm, I just wish him gone.
Same.
Just muting him and pulling the plug on his Twitter account would make a vast improvement right now.
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la la la la la la la la laaaaaaaaaaaaaa deedaaaaaaaaaaàaa
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Yeah.... these are interesting times.
What I always wanted. But now I'm too old to do much more than watch.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
I don't wish him any harm, I just wish him gone.
I'd actually hate for him to be killed. I want this to play out.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
I don't wish him any harm, I just wish him gone.
I'd actually hate for him to be killed. I want this to play out.
Yeah. Part of me wants him muted for awhile...but there is that part of me that enjoys watching him slowly hang himself.
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My check comes from the state, but I assume The PR's Social Security check will also come. It would be sure political death to interfere with senior citizens.
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Shame that the Secret Service is considered essential.
I don't wish him any harm, I just wish him gone.
I'd actually hate for him to be killed. I want this to play out.
Yeah. Part of me wants him muted for awhile...but there is that part of me that enjoys watching him slowly hang himself.
Not sure that's how it's going. It could be that America is the one hanging itself.
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I do think that the world as a whole would be a better place with him dead. Honestly, the fun in the orange moron hanging himself gets tedious after a while.
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
So long as you take joy in watching the destruction of a superpower and watching the 'oh so moral'
proving themselves hypocrites, trying to achieve an end which they should have no control over though,
this is pretty great. Not great enough that I'd lift a finger to HELP it along, but I sure won't stop it.
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Through all of the negative opinions, thoughts and feelings about President Trump, I wonder how Barron is taking all this. I think his older sons are cut from a different cloth. Barron seems so fragile. (Sorry MommyMode)
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
'better' implies an understanding of good.
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
'better' implies an understanding of good.
Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.
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I must say, this topic aged very well~ :eyelash:
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It's one of those timeless topics. It will happen again, you know.
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
'better' implies an understanding of good.
Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.
Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
'better' implies an understanding of good.
Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.
Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....
I'd question your use of "better".
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Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.
Who said anything about "good"?
'better' implies an understanding of good.
Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.
Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....
I'd question your use of "better".
Which requires a concept of good. If 'better' is not rooted in good, it can mean anything reasonable - for example, efficiency.
I thought this would be fucking obvious.
It leads me to an oft wondered point about you - whether you're willing to abandon all reasonable
contemplation of an issue, just so that you don't have to admit you're wrong.
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Heh. No, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when convinced that it's the case.
And yes, I do see your point, but "better at processing Jews" is wholly different from "we no longer have to worry about the world economy crashing because of an orange moron's tweets". The latter is a positive change in state while the former is... well, what? You wanted an objective definition of "good", I merely suggest that eliminating Trump would mean one less worry.
And here's something I often wonder about you: do you argue because you actually think that somebody is wrong or because you like to argue? Seems to me that this is about the latter - hence your rather contrived "processing Jews" example.
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Heh. No, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when convinced that it's the case.
Yes, I've seen you do it. I just think you have a tendency to defend the indefensible.
But, I'm posting in the mirror there.
And here's something I often wonder about you: do you argue because you actually think that somebody is wrong or because you like to argue? Seems to me that this is about the latter - hence your rather contrived "processing Jews" example.
Both. Arguing can be enjoyable. It's not usually worth it if you know your opponent is right though.
It IS worth it to expose different thought patterns however, so sometimes it's valuable to pursue even
once you see weaknesses in your own argument.
In this case, I made a quick correction quip (about the need to define an objective valuation - the good),
and was floored (as often happens) to see that my meaning wasn't obvious.
As to the processing of jews, I find that taking extreme cases is often the best way to show someone
the fact that their interpretation is unsustainable. The only problem with it is people who cheat by
pulling Godwin's Law out - a cheap out since the very beginning.
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I didn't mind the extremeness of the processing Jews example, I simply questioned its relevance. Made me think, though, always a good thing.
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Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.
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I didn't mind the extremeness of the processing Jews example, I simply questioned its relevance. Made me think, though, always a good thing.
You need more practice at thinking. Cal could be your tutor
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Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.
It's only a shame that it doesn't affect his behavior.
Frustrating, because just as you feel he might be beginning to see why people
object to what he's doing, then he closes his mind to it again.
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Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.
It's only a shame that it doesn't affect his behavior.
Frustrating, because just as you feel he might be beginning to see why people
object to what he's doing, then he closes his mind to it again.
FFS, stop the bs already. You're not better than anyone else here.
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It was reported that Trump told Coast Guard families to hold garage sales to raise funds.
Right, like who the fuck is going to a garage sale in winter? And what if you live on base?
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It was reported that Trump told Coast Guard families to hold garage sales to raise funds.
Right, like who the fuck is going to a garage sale in winter? And what if you live on base?
That was published by the Coast Guard Support Program their employee-assistance branch.
They have since taken it down...but you can still read it here.
Insulting and ridiculous.
https://www.scribd.com/document/397140587/Managing-Furlough
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You're not better than anyone else here.
Now if you could just apply this to yourself, that would solve most of your problems. :nerdy:
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You're not better than anyone else here.
Now if you could just apply this to yourself, that would solve most of your problems. :nerdy:
You, on the other hand, are below average.
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You're not better than anyone else here.
Now if you could just apply this to yourself, that would solve most of your problems. :nerdy:
You, on the other hand, are below average.
Keep thinking that, narcissists always underestimate me.
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Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.
It's only a shame that it doesn't affect his behavior.
Frustrating, because just as you feel he might be beginning to see why people
object to what he's doing, then he closes his mind to it again.
FFS, stop the bs already. You're not better than anyone else here.
Oh, I am. But then again, nearly everyone is, so long as you're playing with
the admin panel to spite people.
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You're not better than anyone else here.
Now if you could just apply this to yourself, that would solve most of your problems. :nerdy:
You, on the other hand, are below average.
Keep thinking that, narcissists always underestimate me.
They think that badly of you?
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You're not better than anyone else here.
Now if you could just apply this to yourself, that would solve most of your problems. :nerdy:
You, on the other hand, are below average.
Keep thinking that, narcissists always underestimate me.
They think that badly of you?
Just when I think you've achieved your personal maximum unawareness, you up it another notch to even more unaware. Congratulations. :clap:
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Don't brag. You don't think.
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I accept your unconditional surrender. :M
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You want to stop already?
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Go and reread what I wrote.
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It's so sad to see how this senselessness is infectious.