INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: 'andersom' on June 04, 2015, 01:22:47 PM
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Lately I'm intrigued by the concept of guilt. Started with a young friend of mine, feeling guilty after every biscuit she eats, after every plate of healthy food that is a bit too full for her waistline (in her mind). And I began observing the use of guilt. It seems to be everywhere, in all kinds of situations where it does not make any sense to me.
Yes, I get guilt as a concept. When you do something wrong you are guilty, and with an accurate legal system, you may be found guilty too.
But I do not get why enjoying food or drink, when there is no harm afterwards (like drunk driving) leads to sensations of guilt. Sensations big enough to get in a massive mental crisis for some.
Since that young friend of mine with her massive food issues, I look different at slimming ads. They work on that sense of guilt. They tell that their shakes taste fantastic, and that you do not have to miss out anything joyful in life, where all I ever heard is that the shakes are a chore to swallow. So, they are a punishment, a punishment wanted to treat the guilt.
Or am I completely getting it wrong here?
The guilt stuff does not only happen with weight and food. It seems to be everywhere. And marketing works well around it.
The friend of mine was flabbergasted that my daughters and I do not feel guilty after eating, never. Unless we eat something really nice so inattentively that we completely missed enjoying it. But even that is no guilt, just a shame.
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Guilt is an important tool in marketing, yes. Think of the gyms, the diets, the various health food chains. And not to mention those perfect, a little too thin models.
People are bound to feel guilty, and the fact is being used to induce more guilt.
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Your correct in that it's an important marketing tool but in my opinion it's a slimy take the easy way out one
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One reason is because it is easy, another that it is cheap.
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There is something extra weird going on. When people feel legally or religiously guilty, they do not gloat about it.
The other guilt, there is gloating, revelling, wallowing, non stop talking about their sins.
There is joy in the feeling guilty. And there is connection with "fellow sinners" in that joy.
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There is something extra weird going on. When people feel legally or religiously guilty, they do not gloat about it.
The other guilt, there is gloating, revelling, wallowing, non stop talking about their sins.
There is joy in the feeling guilty. And there is connection with "fellow sinners" in that joy.
That almost sounds like a guilty pleasure. But there is also anguish, redeeming, sometimes despair and brutal atonement.
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Interesting topic. Personally have trouble differentiating between the physical sensations of anxiety and guilt; they both *feel* the same so it's often a logical process to understand what is the actual emotion accompanying those physical manifestations. Wondering if the word guilt might even be used wrong here. Thinking upset over failure in a personal self-control would probably be better emotionally classified as weakness or angst rather than guilt. Maybe people are saying they feel guilty without taking the time to think about what they're actually feeling.
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Was also thinking some people might confuse regret and guilt as always going hand in hand or meaning the same thing.
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Emotions are weird. ???
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Interesting topic. Personally have trouble differentiating between the physical sensations of anxiety and guilt; they both *feel* the same so it's often a logical process to understand what is the actual emotion accompanying those physical manifestations. Wondering if the word guilt might even be used wrong here. Thinking upset over failure in a personal self-control would probably be better emotionally classified as weakness or angst rather than guilt. Maybe people are saying they feel guilty without taking the time to think about what they're actually feeling.
Guilt and anxiety have an overlap, I am sure of that. But in cases of (mainly women) expressing guilt, it has to do with how they are responsible for what has been done. So the guilt factor is part of it.
Lunch time at work is amazing observation time, half of the (mainly) women is wallowing in guilt and worries, the other half is either laughing their arse off, or watching baffled, utterly amazed.
It is amusing most of the time, but when it gets to a massive crisis, it is not that funny.
Other observation, the having of this sense of guilt is not following the lines of spazz or non spazz people.
Know someone with the weirdest guilt thoughts. She's highly religious, and thinks after death everything will be awesome. She is so into forgiving that she thinks legal guilt should be forgiven almost always too. But, when she eats too much, her sensation of guilt gets completely over the top. There is no forgiving, there is no leniency, there should be punishment.
She also does have big anxiety and control issues. The overlap is there, but in case of guilt, she does react different than in the other cases.
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Emotions are weird. ???
True that.
I know I have them, often delayed. But they do not work for me, in ways of communication or understanding. Will not deny them. But that is about it.
I try to understand now and then what happens in others though. It is highly intriguing. Do think lots of people communicate with emotions. That that is a main part of the non-verbal communicating. I know people find my non emotional reacting awkward and for them it creates a distance. Funny, at work, one colleague gets told the same things. So now and then we try to understand communication together. Finding out where we failed to see the unsaid. With two highly emotional communicating colleagues, we have plenty of mutual faux-pas to discuss. :laugh:
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Lately I'm intrigued by the concept of guilt. Started with a young friend of mine, feeling guilty after every biscuit she eats, after every plate of healthy food that is a bit too full for her waistline (in her mind). And I began observing the use of guilt. It seems to be everywhere, in all kinds of situations where it does not make any sense to me.
Yes, I get guilt as a concept. When you do something wrong you are guilty, and with an accurate legal system, you may be found guilty too.
But I do not get why enjoying food or drink, when there is no harm afterwards (like drunk driving) leads to sensations of guilt. Sensations big enough to get in a massive mental crisis for some.
Since that young friend of mine with her massive food issues, I look different at slimming ads. They work on that sense of guilt. They tell that their shakes taste fantastic, and that you do not have to miss out anything joyful in life, where all I ever heard is that the shakes are a chore to swallow. So, they are a punishment, a punishment wanted to treat the guilt.
Or am I completely getting it wrong here?
The guilt stuff does not only happen with weight and food. It seems to be everywhere. And marketing works well around it.
The friend of mine was flabbergasted that my daughters and I do not feel guilty after eating, never. Unless we eat something really nice so inattentively that we completely missed enjoying it. But even that is no guilt, just a shame.
There's a lot of money to made made off of making women all fucked up about food and how they look.
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Lately I'm intrigued by the concept of guilt. Started with a young friend of mine, feeling guilty after every biscuit she eats, after every plate of healthy food that is a bit too full for her waistline (in her mind). And I began observing the use of guilt. It seems to be everywhere, in all kinds of situations where it does not make any sense to me.
Yes, I get guilt as a concept. When you do something wrong you are guilty, and with an accurate legal system, you may be found guilty too.
But I do not get why enjoying food or drink, when there is no harm afterwards (like drunk driving) leads to sensations of guilt. Sensations big enough to get in a massive mental crisis for some.
Since that young friend of mine with her massive food issues, I look different at slimming ads. They work on that sense of guilt. They tell that their shakes taste fantastic, and that you do not have to miss out anything joyful in life, where all I ever heard is that the shakes are a chore to swallow. So, they are a punishment, a punishment wanted to treat the guilt.
Or am I completely getting it wrong here?
The guilt stuff does not only happen with weight and food. It seems to be everywhere. And marketing works well around it.
The friend of mine was flabbergasted that my daughters and I do not feel guilty after eating, never. Unless we eat something really nice so inattentively that we completely missed enjoying it. But even that is no guilt, just a shame.
There's a lot of money to made made off of making women all fucked up about food and how they look.
Lot of money is being made by working on anxiety and guilt around health too.
A while ago there was some research showing that a lot of types of cancer happen without a clear physical reason. That research was not met with applause. Apparently lots of people can not cope with the fact that sometimes shit just happens. Someone has to be guilty, there needs to be someone to blame. Tragedy is not an option.
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Guilt is a powerful tool for controlling people.
Most religions use guilt...Catholics are born feeling guilty. :zoinks:
Guilt is used as a marketing tool, they use guilt in school, at work, and at the doctors office...and how many parents I see that are pros at giving guilt trips to their kids.
Never understood it, and never will.
"I don't feel guilt. Whatever I wish to do, I do."
~Jeanne Moreau~
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Guilt and anxiety have an overlap, I am sure of that.
Agreed surely they do, but my problem is more based in the bodily physical response to those emotions. They're exactly the same for me so sometimes find myself wondering why feeling guilty, then realizing it's simply angst or maybe too much coffee.
half of the (mainly) women is wallowing in guilt and worries
Some people do seem to find a negative mindset to be the most comfortable for them, even a default, though not necessarily always guilt or worry; it could be anything for negative minded people. Have never really thought of it as a female thing.
But in cases of (mainly women) expressing guilt, it has to do with how they are responsible for what has been done. So the guilt factor is part of it.
Reminding me of this:
They apologise for all the things they did not do, beforehand.
(The sorry I exist, apology)
The sorry. It's the curse of the woman, the sorry. Women apologize for the world.
Now that I do think of as a female thing, and thanks to Semicolon also a Canadian thing. :laugh:
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Ah, the 'mainly women' I put in here was more because at the place where I work, almost all employees are women. At the other location, same firm, it is the other way around. No real idea about the lunch conversations and weirdness there. Heard some things, but don't know from my own observations.
Maybe the revelling in guilt also works as a confirmation magnet. Hoping to trigger responses telling them they are not that bad.
:apondering:
And now I think of Semi. Semi should apologise for being absent without giving a life sign for so long. :M
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Maybe the revelling in guilt also works as a confirmation magnet. Hoping to trigger responses telling them they are not that bad.
Maybe that's it, like people who constantly put themselves down so people will give them compliments to the contrary, or maybe some people simply enjoy pity.
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Strikes me that marketing is mostly about playing on people's feelings of inadequacy to sell shit - you do want to be as thin, as stylish, as successful, as good a lover/parent/golfer etc as the next person who DOES use our product don't you? Don't let your self/goldfish/kids/boss/neighbours/deity down. Basically encouraging people to feel shit about themselves so they can feel better by buying temporary happiness, and encouraging others to buy into the same bollocks - they must be weird if they don't see anything wrong with eating what they like or staying in bed on a saturday instead of working overtime to save up for a better lawnmower. Media worship of poxy 'celebrities' feeds the industry - and then people internalise it and parrot it back at each other. Its all cynical shit but it really fucks people up IMO.
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Strikes me that marketing is mostly about playing on people's feelings of inadequacy to sell shit - you do want to be as thin, as stylish, as successful, as good a lover/parent/golfer etc as the next person who DOES use our product don't you? Don't let your self/goldfish/kids/boss/neighbours/deity down. Basically encouraging people to feel shit about themselves so they can feel better by buying temporary happiness, and encouraging others to buy into the same bollocks - they must be weird if they don't see anything wrong with eating what they like or staying in bed on a saturday instead of working overtime to save up for a better lawnmower. Media worship of poxy 'celebrities' feeds the industry - and then people internalise it and parrot it back at each other. Its all cynical shit but it really fucks people up IMO.
Ain't that the truth!
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So useful for so many things, guilt. No wonder it's everywhere.
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Guilt is a powerful tool for controlling people.
Most religions use guilt...Catholics are born feeling guilty. :zoinks:
Guilt is used as a marketing tool, they use guilt in school, at work, and at the doctors office...and how many parents I see that are pros at giving guilt trips to their kids.
Never understood it, and never will.
"I don't feel guilt. Whatever I wish to do, I do."
~Jeanne Moreau~
One of the people with too much sense of guilt I know, she became religious later, to save herself from all the bad and all the guilt. Worked for a little while, then it hit her again, now also in the religious realm, where she had felt safe.
Looks like it is something some people are susceptible to, and others are not.
Maybe the ones feeling guilty all the time are also the ones that are better at guilt tripping. And thus pass the sense of guilt to their offspring. :apondering:
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Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.
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Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.
Every one is guilty of all the good they tried to do and that did not turn out completely right. :M
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Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do.
The human capacity for guilt is such that people can always find ways to blame themselves.
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http://youtu.be/eI32AN_uSoA
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What's that crap?
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My female bio-progenitor was a superb travel agent for guilt trips. >:D
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http://youtu.be/eI32AN_uSoA
:zoinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vD2YeaOXWc
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http://youtu.be/eI32AN_uSoA
The moment I heard "If this doesn't touch your heart, you probably need to see your doctor immediately" I stopped watching. The BLERGH factor had gone too high.
I'm kind a sensitive.
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Other part of guilt that intrigues me. Someone goes to a doctor, and cannot be fixed, that is clear. (Works in mental and physical issues). There is no fix, but there is treatment to alleviate and to learn how to live with that there is.
And then, since there is no cure, and the problems don't disappear, the patient finds fault and guilt with the people treating him or her. The medications don't work, there is not offered enough time to help, all that.
Not talking about meds that really are wrong, or help that really is ineffective; then you do have to complain and take action. But some people will find fault with every treatment, because it does not bring them total relief or perfection. And then the others are to blame, when perfection or cure was never what was offered.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798
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It's parody people ;)
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Other part of guilt that intrigues me. Someone goes to a doctor, and cannot be fixed, that is clear. (Works in mental and physical issues). There is no fix, but there is treatment to alleviate and to learn how to live with that there is.
And then, since there is no cure, and the problems don't disappear, the patient finds fault and guilt with the people treating him or her. The medications don't work, there is not offered enough time to help, all that.
Not talking about meds that really are wrong, or help that really is ineffective; then you do have to complain and take action. But some people will find fault with every treatment, because it does not bring them total relief or perfection. And then the others are to blame, when perfection or cure was never what was offered.
That last paragraph is Kate perfectly summed up.
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It's parody people ;)
I noticed when I saw the same head in the gluten free thing.
But before that, I did an :asthing: . He's good!
That gluten free thing reminded me of a time I ate in a vegetarian restaurant. It was a once and never again experience.
:hyke:
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It's parody people ;)
I noticed when I saw the same head in the gluten free thing.
But before that, I did an :asthing: . He's good!
That gluten free thing reminded me of a time I ate in a vegetarian restaurant. It was a once and never again experience.
:hyke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvdf6e8birI
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Not all he does seems to be parody.
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Other part of guilt that intrigues me. Someone goes to a doctor, and cannot be fixed, that is clear. (Works in mental and physical issues). There is no fix, but there is treatment to alleviate and to learn how to live with that there is.
And then, since there is no cure, and the problems don't disappear, the patient finds fault and guilt with the people treating him or her. The medications don't work, there is not offered enough time to help, all that.
Not talking about meds that really are wrong, or help that really is ineffective; then you do have to complain and take action. But some people will find fault with every treatment, because it does not bring them total relief or perfection. And then the others are to blame, when perfection or cure was never what was offered.
This seems to have shifted the discussion from guilt to blame. Outside of court, not certain guilt can actually be assigned to anyone unwilling to accept it, and the emotion not something to ever be assigned.
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What I learned at orientation, a week before my first class even started, is that guilt is a legal conclusion. It doesn't even exist before the conclusion of trial.
:include:
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Guilt is for the guilty.
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Other part of guilt that intrigues me. Someone goes to a doctor, and cannot be fixed, that is clear. (Works in mental and physical issues). There is no fix, but there is treatment to alleviate and to learn how to live with that there is.
And then, since there is no cure, and the problems don't disappear, the patient finds fault and guilt with the people treating him or her. The medications don't work, there is not offered enough time to help, all that.
Not talking about meds that really are wrong, or help that really is ineffective; then you do have to complain and take action. But some people will find fault with every treatment, because it does not bring them total relief or perfection. And then the others are to blame, when perfection or cure was never what was offered.
I blame the shrinks for my Ass Burger. :zoinks:
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What I learned at orientation, a week before my first class even started, is that guilt is a legal conclusion. It doesn't even exist before the conclusion of trial.
:include:
That's legal guilt.
For me translation messes up things extra. The word "schuld" translates to "guilt" but also to "debt" and stuff in between. It is also found in the word for apologising; "verontschuldigen". So a lot more comes with it.
Guilt is wider than only the legal use, also in English isn't it?
One can be guilty of a crime, but not found guilty by a jury. (and vice versa)
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One can be guilty of a crime, but not found guilty by a jury. (and vice versa)
Technically, no. One could have committed the act that he or she was accused of committing, but absent a legal conclusion the term "guilty" would be incorrect.
This only matters in the rarified atmosphere of legal circle-jerks. Nobody cares and the other usage is probably more common. The point being that "guilty criminals" don't get off at trial. They aren't guilty until after trial, and only if a judge or jury concludes that they are.
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One can be guilty of a crime, but not found guilty by a jury. (and vice versa)
Technically, no. One could have committed the act that he or she was accused of committing, but absent a legal conclusion the term "guilty" would be incorrect.
This only matters in the rarified atmosphere of legal circle-jerks. Nobody cares and the other usage is probably more common. The point being that "guilty criminals" don't get off at trial. They aren't guilty until after trial, and only if a judge or jury concludes that they are.
That I get, and it is clear.
Meant that words have different meanings in different settings. In a psychological setting guilt will be completely different, depending on the mindset of the client mainly.
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Guilt is wider than only the legal use, also in English isn't it?
Yeah, but Hubert doesn't want to talk about feelings. :zoinks:
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Guilt is wider than only the legal use, also in English isn't it?
Yeah, but Hubert doesn't want to talk about feelings. :zoinks:
He should not be so afraid to share his turmoil.
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Guilt is wider than only the legal use, also in English isn't it?
Yeah, but Hubert doesn't want to talk about feelings. :zoinks:
He should not be so afraid to share his turmoil.
Feelings shmeelings
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Guilt is wider than only the legal use, also in English isn't it?
Yeah, but Hubert doesn't want to talk about feelings. :zoinks:
He should not be so afraid to share his turmoil.
Feelings shmeelings
There, there.
* pats Hubert on the shoulder *
It wasn't that bad, was it?
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:bigcry:
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After the :rollercoaster: of emotions a :kumbaya: will await you. :evillaugh:
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:o
I didn't mean to open this thread. Honest! :hide:
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:laugh:
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OCD guilt sucks. I think it's worse than Catholic guilt, thought given the hair-splitting that seems to be
built into Catholic morality, there is a great deal of overlap between the two. Fortunately I am rid of most
of each kind, the OCD guilt thanks to medication that keeps me from thinking in obsessive loops to the
degree that I used to, and the Catholic guilt thanks to my having become a fucking heathen. >:D
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My late mother :harp: is probably appalled by my swearing and agnosticism. I don't feel guilty. :P