INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: hiroshima on October 19, 2006, 07:42:25 PM
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Are we bullies here?
This is the accusation being lodged against us.
Do we LURE vulnerable people here, only to BULLY them for our delight and amusement?
I believe there IS bullying that goes on here. But whether it should continue or not, I don't know. Intensity has no rules. So can anyone here defend bullying to me?
I believe singling anyone out for ridicule or mocking is a form of bullying (no matter disgusting, annoying, nasty, or awful that person might be, and no matter how hateful that person's behavior has been, as I fully agree RobertN's has been ).
So is that tribute to ascan in the upper right a form of bullying? We don't have a thread singling him out but a whole main index. Defend this to me.
Remember that we considered for the TOS of neurolands that there would be no person-specific attack ads? As was done to lissa on WP by the typhoid guy, and it so devastated her?
All of us here have been bullied. It is tempting to bully, to get on the other side, the side of power. It makes you feel like you are part of a clique or team. In fact I would say this is THE BEST way to make people feel like a clique or team... to give them someone to bully. Then they have an instant group mission and can gang up on that person. It makes them all feel superior. I saw this very clearly when I was in school.
I know robertN deserves to be bullied and ragged on in your eyes, but is that the best way to deal with him? Surely we are smarter than that.
Are we BULLIES or are we DEBATERS?
I want you to look deep into your hearts and tell me if you are using your brains or your fists.
Jesus was a radical-- he said to turn the other cheek. Surely there is a more powerful way to deal with RobertN, omega, ascan, than bullying.
If robertn wants to destroy this site, I invite him to try. If omega, ascan, et al can make a site better than intenity, I invite and encourage them to try that to. If we are a pack of liars and bullies we will crumble under the pressure and competition. But if we have a meaningful purpose and legitimate intent, we'll stand strong.
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as far as i have seen, people have made a conscious effort to ignore robertN, lately.
yet he continues, and he gets worse.
in his latest agenda, he has said that he wishes to sue and put an innocent family on the street (out of their home). this to me is behaviour that invites others to gang up on him in their own pursuit of what is just and true. i do not see it as bullying at all. i view it as people calling someone out on their bullshit.
like i said, we tried to turn the other cheek, by ignoring him. he decided to up the ante. i personally think that the gloves should come off. also, i think we have been very respectful, up to this point.
but your thesis brings up an interesting point: a common enemy to unite the masses (a group).
i believe that things happen for a reason. i am not sure what will eveolve out of these accusations, but i will certainly be looking for any opening i can to try to turn these unfortunate events into something positive. hopefully, towards advocasy. still, i am at a loss. but i am searching.
let me conclude by stating that Duncvis And PurposefulInsanity (i rarely capitolize proper names, btw), deserve our gratitude for all the sacrifices they have made for us and for all the bullshit they have to endure. if there is a common enemy to be had, then it should be anyone who wants to destroy their family, imho.
they are great people, giving people, and deserve better than they get from the immature, thick a-holes.
Duncvis and PurposefulInsanity, i give you my respect and my thanks.
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_126.gif)
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I want you to look deep into your hearts and tell me if you are using your brains or your fists.
interesting point.... but surely we'd be using our brains as fists in this context... but no matter...
thing is, how can you turn something like this (Mc J) into something positive ? i wonder ??
i would not consider myself a bully, i hate bullies but i do occasionally without realising, over assert myself if i get angry about things like people getting overly crude etc... but as soon as i realise what i am doing i tend to stop straight away... cos i hate turning into the thing i hate the most...
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Thinking back to elementary school...
Bullying's a hard thing to define. Of the bullies I've run into, some were malicious, some were genuinely ignorant to the effect their words caused, and some were re-creating their own issues. When I was about nine, there was a girl who stood beside me in choir and made fun of my singing. She'd say I sang too loud - so one day I gave up and started singing really quietly. Afterwards, I overheard her saying to her clique in a bewildered voice, "she actually listened to me...." I couldn't figure out what this girl had expected of me - but it wasn't to act like a quiet victim. I come from a family that barely teases or banters with each other at all. Between that and spectrum communication problems, I think I interpreted even friendly gestures as bullying. And in the reverse, so-called bullies interact with people, expecting their force to be returned equally, but then the other folds and calls it bullying.
Shima - from the perspective of a person like RobertN, there are indeed bullies here. But there is also plenty of warning that this is a no-holds-barred site. RobertN seems to expect the whole world to conform to his standards of what is and isn't bullying. But the fact is that the line between fun and hurt lies in a different place for every person. There is no single system that will work for everybody. Make a place as safe as Ramoth, as safe as I tried to make the Haven forum on WrongPlanet, and you will find that instead of creating an environment where everyone can feel at home, you've alienated a whole different set of people - the ones who don't know how to moderate their words to fit the unwritten social rules for niceness.
I want you to look deep into your hearts and tell me if you are using your brains or your fists.
I am using both. In this world, it's impossible to live your life without bringing your strength to bear against somebody, somewhere. Even Gandhi tested his will against others'... who's to say that there wasn't somebody, somewhere, hurt by things he did, or causes he didn't defend, or people he didn't notice. And that's as it should be. There is injustice in the world, things that should be fought, and to fight them, one must learn to fight in an environment where the stakes aren't as high. I see that as one of the purposes of Intensity. That's how I use it personally. And even in a practice arena, there are going to be bruises.
I believe the trick is to know when to use brains and when to use fists. You don't tell a rape victim that they brought it on themselves... but there are times when you need to knock a borderline on their ass and show them precisely how something is the direct consequence of their own actions. For example. Because victimhood, like anything else on earth that provokes a reaction, can be used as a type of manipulation. So the hard part is knowing what's real and what's not.
And in the case of RobertN, I can't really say for sure. So I fall back on the default idea that he is not forced to come here. He was never forced to stay. He is an adult - an adult with issues, certainly, but he nonetheless agreed to the disclaimer when he registered on the site. So while I think it's a waste of energy to rip on him for the joy of maliciousness, nor do we on Intensity have an obligation to fawn all over him and kowtow to his demands until he doesn't feel hurt anymore. And I definitely don't believe that RobertN's reaction is a reason to condemn Intensity itself as a corrupt and immoral site.
In a way, I think we're saying the same thing. I don't believe in turning the other cheek - actually I have some serious issues with that concept, because to be put into practice as it's written would mean allowing oneself to become a victim of all and sundry, allowing oneself to be raped, etc. But I do see a meaningful purpose here - and I don't know whether it's enhanced by the behavior RobertN and maybe you see as bullying - but nor am I going to condemn that behavior unless it really is motivated by nothing but cruelty.
So - kudos for bringing up this question - it's an important one.
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its not bullying if you walk into the fight knowing what it is and what might happen
on the other hand i could see how people would consider someone poking fun randomly at whoever and whatever bullying.
depends on your perspective.
dunno anything about robertn.
but i do know that i can't be bullied here, because i expect people to be swinging wildly, many of them with their eyes closed and some of them at anything that moves. so i wouldn't take anything anyone said here personally or seriously. how would i know? anyone who chooses to take something i said here personally is creating their own problem.
can't blame the train for crushing your hand if you put it on the tracks. the disclaimer says don't come here to be safe (paraphrase). which brings up a question about another thread, but i wont address it here.
i am not a bully. however, things i have said here have caused people to call me a bully. before that, only the ants in my apartment thought so. they are right. the others are wrong.
however, i don't come here to debate, ramble, not make goddam sense or eat olive branches.
i come here to have fun.
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No, we do not lure people here in order to bully them. That's something Ascan made up. Yes, there is bullying here, but not anything organized. That's something Ascan made up.
There is accountability, however. There is the fact that you had better back up your words when asked, or join some other, moderated, board instead.
The disclaimer says it all. If you are the sensitive type, there are plenty of other boards out there.
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I don't think we ARE bullies. I have seen people who are inclined to bully at any given time, and we don't have any big ones here. We got some slightly mean, short tempered, nasty people here, unplayful and the like. But nobody VERY mean, or VERY nasty.
Now this is not to say we havent BULLIED people. You can be the nicest guy in the world, be in a bad mood, and fuck up someone elses day. We bullied fluorescent, that conspiracy theorist guy, and i can even say that we bullied happeh. Although it could be argued that all 3 were "asking" for it. But I do not feel it is our responsibility on this site to give disadvantaged people slack. Happeh is nuts, so it would have been kind and benevolent of us to not get pissed when he said something nuts, to not hate him for it, because hey, he's nuts. And maybe it would have been nicer of us to smile and nod to the guy spouting the conspiracy theories, and say things like, "Well.... that's not impossible....", and then later confide with each other that what he was saying sounded totally rediculous. And we could just ignore every annoying and offensive quality about how fluorescent talks, assume he didnt mean to say the stupid, offensive thing he just said, and assume that behind his thought-to-expression difficulties he has good intentions.
But we aren't a support site. We never made that guarentee. We aren't about helping the sensative and disadvantaged. We have no exterior directive to be extra nice. We are here to speak our mind. And often what our minds really think is, "Boy happeh, are you a nut." or "That sounds totally unsubstaniated conspiracy theorist guy." and "Fluorescent, do you have the slightest idea how indecipherable you are?" Maybe those thoughts are only one of thousands, but since they are the thoughts we wouldnt be ALLOWED to say on WP, we are just a little bit more compelled to mention them first.
I don't think those three deserved bullying, i think they were just not right for a site whose members are free to speak their mind and have no duty to be kind to people. But I know that they were effectively bullied, not because we intended it, not because we all got together and discussed how we were going to destory their ego, but because individually we all thought they were idiots(or whatever), and commented on it individually, and independantly.
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Okay, Nomaken, that deserves some karma. :clap:
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Okay, Nomaken, that deserves some karma. :clap:
Indeed indeed :thanks:
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i third that. ;D
+1
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i guess peer pressure wins out.
+1 Nomaken.
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OMFG not peer pressure.....
oh well
+1 :P
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So did you actually READ Nomaken's post? :P ;D
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so, what you actually said, nomaken, is that we bullied people, but we aren't bullies, yes?
as in:
I don't think we ARE bullies.
and then:
Now this is not to say we havent BULLIED people.
in which case: huh?
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Their position(robert at least, i dont know about ascan and omega), that we are bullies, implies to me at least that they believe we are inherently mean, spiteful people. It would be like saying we were schizophrenic, you don't behave schizophrenically, you either are schizophrenic or you aren't. However just because we have bullied people doesn't mean we are inherently mean spiteful people. We were just being mean, which we could choose not to be.
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That's how I read it, too, Lucifer.
Their position(robert at least, i dont know about ascan and omega), that we are bullies, implies to me at least that they believe we are inherently mean, spiteful people. It would be like saying we were schizophrenic, you don't behave schizophrenically, you either are schizophrenic or you aren't. However just because we have bullied people doesn't mean we are inherently mean spiteful people. We were just being mean, which we could choose not to be.
I must be thick or something, cos I didn't get this either. ???
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There is a difference between being A bully, and bullying someone. You may in one sense be a bully to engage in bullying, but robert seems to be saying that we are only bullies, at all times. And that our status of being a bully does not end once we stop bullying someone. We wouldn't be nice to someone else, even if we liked them, because we ARE bullies. It is like the difference between being stupid, and doing something stupid. You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.
I mean, if robert was saying that we were mean to fluorescent and happeh, and he wants us to apologize, he'd sort of have an argument. But he isn't saying we were mean, he is saying we can only BE mean, and he believes he must stop us from being able to be mean to people in the future.
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Ah, OK. I see what you mean now. Thanks.
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There is a difference between being A bully, and bullying someone. You may in one sense be a bully to engage in bullying, but robert seems to be saying that we are only bullies, at all times. And that our status of being a bully does not end once we stop bullying someone. We wouldn't be nice to someone else, even if we liked them, because we ARE bullies. It is like the difference between being stupid, and doing something stupid. You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.
I mean, if robert was saying that we were mean to fluorescent and happeh, and he wants us to apologize, he'd sort of have an argument. But he isn't saying we were mean, he is saying we can only BE mean, and he believes he must stop us from being able to be mean to people in the future.
then we shouldn't have to apologise.
we should just make an effort to learn from our mistakes.
You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.
there is a difference. what you used an example above is an obvious mistake, since it requires a concrete solution.
if people don't believe they were mean (ie: they were just holding people ccountable for their words), then they were actually doing what is right, according to their own set of principles....
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I am not saying they were wrong to say what they did. I am saying that they did effectively bully those people, totally unintentionally. I don't think they should be held to blame for bullying, but i think that they should recognize how their collective actions affected robert.
And I don't think we have to apologize, I am not even asking you guys to apologize, I think that everyone on here should just recognize their mistakes, robert should recognize his mistakes, and we should just move on. But I think apologizing would help, and the first to apologize would be making, in my opinion, a very honorable and brave sacrifice.
And about the lander thing, that was a bit of humor, because nasa actually did make that mistake with the mars lander, but i forget if it was the calculations that were in meters or the programming.
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I am not saying they were wrong to say what they did. I am saying that they did effectively bully those people, totally unintentionally. I don't think they should be held to blame for bullying, but i think that they should recognize how their collective actions affected robert.
And I don't think we have to apologize, I am not even asking you guys to apologize, I think that everyone on here should just recognize their mistakes, robert should recognize his mistakes, and we should just move on. But I think apologizing would help, and the first to apologize would be making, in my opinion, a very honorable and brave sacrifice.
And about the lander thing, that was a bit of humor, because nasa actually did make that mistake with the mars lander, but i forget if it was the calculations that were in meters or the programming.
personally, i think that there are others, who are closer to robin, who should have to accept responsibility for how their inaction affected robert.
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I think robert should apologize to dunc and P.I.
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I think robert should apologize to dunc and P.I.
Thanks, but I don't want an apology. All I want is both sides to recognise that they didn't act as well as they could have. I believe that the so-called 'bullies' have shown they do recognise that, but the is fault on both sides. People get angry and perhaps say things more bluntly than they would normally, that's just human nature. I can't see this getting any better until all involved admit that this mess has gone far enough and that no-one was an innocent party in all this.
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I would like to take full responsibility for whatever in the fuck I said wrong. Although I already tried that and it appears robert doesn't think I said anything wrong. ... Damn.
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i sort of hate to say this, but i don't believe i either did any "bullying", or am even accused of "bullying" robertN (inverted commas, cos i'm using what's passing for the definition here, in this thread). so no apology isneeded from me. i believe robert is saying i "bullied" flo, and i don' think this is the issue here.
perhaps someone who's in contact with robert could clarify that, if anyone gives a fuck. i don't, as my cupboard is bare of apologies, and they can't deliver more for simply ages.
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I'm not a bully. I'm just plain mean.
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There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!
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There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!
That is an interesting point, Chaos. I wonder if you would like to elaborate.
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I not a bully. :eyebrows:
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There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!
That is an interesting point, Chaos. I wonder if you would like to elaborate.
There are those who talk about fighting bullies and then shout down those who argue against them. They play the "victim" or better yet, the "martyr". Emo queens and kings! :wanker: Thats about as elaborate as I will get, decide for yourself who fits the "shoes" and who doesn't!
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I not a bully. :eyebrows:
Never said you were!
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i don't think i'm a bully at all having been bullyied for most of my career in school i'd definitivley agree that none of us are bullys. if anything were use to being picked on so when someone does it to use we dont give it much thought. atleast i dont
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I not a bully. :eyebrows:
Never said you were!
I was just stating a fact. ;D
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Can you be both a bully and bullied?
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Can you be both a bully and bullied?
I have been both in in My Life in grade school Myself.
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i don't think i'm a bully at all having been bullyied for most of my career in school i'd definitivley agree that none of us are bullys. if anything were use to being picked on so when someone does it to use we dont give it much thought. atleast i dont
Good point.
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I not a bully. :eyebrows:
Never said you were!
I was just stating a fact. ;D
Otay :vulcan: :beergrin:
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So why don't You join Us as a member here at Intensity2 You seem to hold Your own in the end Chaos?
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
i feel bullied.
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
We all are in the end.
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Soooooooo predictable, pot calling kettle black!
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Soooooooo predictable, pot calling kettle black!
so you are black?
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I am what you say I am! Ghey/gay, black does that make you happy?
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I am what you say I am! Ghey/gay, black does that make you happy?
no.
none of that matters to me.
it is you, the person, that makes me happy. and gay.
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I'm glad, but your still not my type!
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I'm glad, but your still not my type!
thou doth protest too much.
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::)
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::)
:upyours:
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Calm down!
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Calm down!
ok.
O0 :hug:
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
With 11,000+ posts? Yes, of course he is.
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
With 11,000+ posts? Yes, of course he is.
WHAT am I to argue! :bssign: :smash: :zzz: :eh: :pizza: :ner:
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mcjagger is quite the example of Intensity2 isn't he???
With 11,000+ posts? Yes, of course he is.
WHAT am I to argue! :bssign: :smash: :zzz: :eh: :pizza: :ner:
I dunno. Fewer emoticons and more descriptive posting?
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Que??? ??? :drool: :coffee:
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I'm coming into this one real late but I'll still give my 2 cents - bullies mess with people who don't want to be messed with, seems like a lot of us are looking for people of equal functioning level, saying all kinds of smartass things, almost like we're cutting our teeth or exercising our more NT-geared guy-talk or girl talk. For me I'm totally fine with that because it feels like I'm kicking it with a bunch of my friends, saying whatever the hell I'd want to, and its a more relaxed atmosphere. When your at a site that has to be restricted to respect younger members, while there's definitely a point to that, it does kinda jam up the social flow to a point.
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I'm coming into this one real late but I'll still give my 2 cents - bullies mess with people who don't want to be messed with, seems like a lot of us are looking for people of equal functioning level, saying all kinds of smartass things, almost like we're cutting our teeth or exercising our more NT-geared guy-talk or girl talk. For me I'm totally fine with that because it feels like I'm kicking it with a bunch of my friends, saying whatever the hell I'd want to, and its a more relaxed atmosphere. When your at a site that has to be restricted to respect younger members, while there's definitely a point to that, it does kinda jam up the social flow to a point.
:agreed:
plus an AS trait is about social dysfunction. rules do not fit into alot of our perceptions.
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Yes, you're all bullies. Now excuse me while I go crying home to yo momma.
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You heard me.
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Yes, you're all bullies. Now excuse me while I go crying home to yo momma.
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You heard me.
Cryemo. :green:
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Yes, you're all bullies. Now excuse me while I go crying home to yo momma.
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You heard me.
Thats a negative - your mom just signed up yesterday ;D