INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Genesis on July 25, 2019, 10:02:43 PM
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Middle School in the states was just a learning curve.. because throughout those 3 years I went through 2 school districts. The one school district I started in had an ELL program at the time for foreign students to learn English, and within that ELL program, you've had your wide variety of different nationalities...
You've had your Bosnians, Russians, Polish, Indians, Ukrainians, Pakistani, and even better... The Mexicans.
During the lunch period, there was a whole table that was referred to as the Mexican Table, and a lot of the Mexican Kids sat together in that table. I had a friend who sat at the table... and each time they always made a joke that White kids weren't allowed... so of course, I figured a way to join in with them... after awhile they didn't care that I was white... they knew I was different for a white kid, and I gotten to know a lot of them.
Some of them had their tough-guy attitudes, yet the others were quite insightful...
The politics behind that experience was that these guys were going with what they were familiar with... and adding me into the mix, was just a way of melting down the weird tensions they had with White Kids at the time... I'm sure it's better now, yet back then it wasn't "Trumpy Like Even"... it was better, because you had more open dialogue with different people... no matter if they were Mexican, Bosnian, or any other nationality.
If the Trumpist ideas were like that back then in the school district with the ELL program, it wouldn't be a comfortable environment for them, as well as myself.
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No idea what you are saying.
"I'm sure it's better now, yet back then it wasn't "Trumpy Like Even"" What does this mean?
"f the Trumpist ideas were like that back then in the school district with the ELL program, it wouldn't be a comfortable environment for them, as well as myself." What ideas are they
Completely non-related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5th4KA7fH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75sx3fLNlRU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZcsbDU_vk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehwcwby1uxY
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I will be honest with you. If you strip out the weird Trump references it is not a difficult story to follow. But, I do not know whether you realise this, the fact that you were comfortable with kids of different ethnicities and the like is not particularly unusual. Nor is it denigrating or elevating you. Really it ought to be the default.
The guys I hung out with as a teen (early and late) were mainly Southern European and Australian in about equal measure. The reason I think I got on so well with the Greeks and the Macedonians and the Italians is that my cousins were/are Greek and they had a real connection to family I did not really have but I found interesting and also I liked the confident, loud braggadocios and loyalty of them. I liked the girls too. And the food.
But Australia tends to have waves from different parts of the world settling and lending to the community melting pot.
Indians and Africans seem to be much more prevalent now and most of my mates at work are Indian with a few African mates. Different each culture and interesting.
Now you and I know that the Mexicans Trump dislikes has nothing to do with their ethnicity or their race but EVERYTHING to do with if they snuck into his country or are there legally. I am a BIG advocate of strict border control. WE are an island that is relatively uninhabitable and inhabited by about 30 million people and surrounded by countries that are significantly poorer and vastly more populated. We need zero policy for illegal immigrants. My mates came in correctly. Some are now citizens and some are not. All are following the rules and trying to fit in with this country and negotiate their place in it.
I think this is the way it should be. It is about respecting the country.
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I would have been sitting at the table with the best food.
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Mexican food is pretty good.
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During lunch I hung out at the smoking area, consuming nicotine and diet coke. :zoinks:
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Damn, I need to think this over again -_- FUCK!!!
I was meaning to say if the Mexican Table incident happened "present-day" it would have been much different... :(
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Al I know you have your man-crush and all... but honestly please -_-
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I think most of us got it the first time Gen.
I would have been looking for an ethnic group with spicy food and who don't chew with their mouths open. That shit grosses me out.
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Damn, I need to think this over again -_- FUCK!!!
I was meaning to say if the Mexican Table incident happened "present-day" it would have been much different... :(
I got it. It would be different today. Kids are more brazen to tell foreign, or foreign looking kids to go home, talking about building a wall, and lots of other BS. It happened a lot more soon after Trump was elected. Its like Trump is another shock and awe event--> in terms of its effect on race/xenophobic relations among the kiddos. I was in middle school when 9/11 happened, and that was hell for the middle eastern and south Asian kids. My bro Neil, of Indian Hindu descent, was often called Osama and teased. We didn't have a huge group of immigrants at that time, so no tables here- less of an opportunity to share.
Nowadays in my city we DO have a larger immigrant community (from around the world) - and with that we have some great restaurants. :P Unfortunately, among many of our Guatemalan and other Latinx population, many folks are held in fear about ICE, and the kids live in fear of their families splitting apart, not knowing who they can trust. A little while ago some white thugs took to targeting and mugging the Latino looking people in one neighborhood. I do not know if they ever caught them.
So yeah, there is more fear in the air for sure. Even I am more on high anxiety alert because the white supremacist groups are becoming more active in my town...over the 4th of July holiday I spent the whole day praying no one would get lynched...although it seems they are more likely to pick up a gun than a noose nowadays.
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Damn, I need to think this over again -_- FUCK!!!
I was meaning to say if the Mexican Table incident happened "present-day" it would have been much different... :(
How and why?
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Damn, I need to think this over again -_- FUCK!!!
I was meaning to say if the Mexican Table incident happened "present-day" it would have been much different... :(
I got it. It would be different today. Kids are more brazen to tell foreign, or foreign looking kids to go home, talking about building a wall, and lots of other BS. It happened a lot more soon after Trump was elected. Its like Trump is another shock and awe event--> in terms of its effect on race/xenophobic relations among the kiddos. I was in middle school when 9/11 happened, and that was hell for the middle eastern and south Asian kids. My bro Neil, of Indian Hindu descent, was often called Osama and teased. We didn't have a huge group of immigrants at that time, so no tables here- less of an opportunity to share.
Nowadays in my city we DO have a larger immigrant community (from around the world) - and with that we have some great restaurants. :P Unfortunately, among many of our Guatemalan and other Latinx population, many folks are held in fear about ICE, and the kids live in fear of their families splitting apart, not knowing who they can trust. A little while ago some white thugs took to targeting and mugging the Latino looking people in one neighborhood. I do not know if they ever caught them.
So yeah, there is more fear in the air for sure. Even I am more on high anxiety alert because the white supremacist groups are becoming more active in my town...over the 4th of July holiday I spent the whole day praying no one would get lynched...although it seems they are more likely to pick up a gun than a noose nowadays.
Strange. I have heard Trump railed against illegal aliens and say over and over that he want immigrants but he wants them here legally.
If you are Mexican and are here legally will he have an issue with you? No. What if you are from Mexican descent but here legally? Will he have an issue? No.
In fact his support in the Latin community is very high for a Republican.
So not getting what you are saying. I know both sides of the political divide can be racistbut this is hardly a defining feature. Ilhan Omar being anti-Semetic and ant-white men or the Viginia Governor doing blackface is hardly representative of the whole of the Democratic Party (unlike slavery, KKK and Jim crow which were) any more that white supremists are representative of the right.
It seems like you are either saying that these racists did not exist before Trump or that his talks about needing to secure the border and that illegal immigration is a crisis somehow embolden white supremacists though he has denounced them?
Not getting it. Sounds like more abstract dog whistle kind of stuff. Which to me is like seeing shapes in clouds and about as scientific and factual.
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians. :dunno:
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians. :dunno:
No, I don't hate Americans. that is just a joke us Aussie have.
But in seriousness I do not have any longing to be or visit America. I recognise good things and bad things about America. It is a place in the world.
One of the good things about America is that it gives one of the biggest cultural influences to the rest of the Western World. Here in Australia we have our own culture of course and our own national identity, BUT we DO take influence from culture mores from America and Europe (mainly British but also from Europe).
Europe was tied to the EU. The EU was Globalist and "Progressive". Obama was Globalist and "Progressive". Therefore Australia had two Western World cultural mores to emulate either Progressive Globalism European values or Progressive Globalism American values.
Some of us actually do not think that is a particularly good choice. I am all for Liberalism but not the extremist, toxic, authoritarianism of Progressivism or the national identity stripping Globalism. Certainly not them both together.
Then Trump. just when we thought Hillary would be the third term of Obama. Just when things were terrible with ISIS and North Korea.
What did he do? Well on one hand he bulldozes in and promotes himself and is braggadocios, crass, uncultured, boorish and rude. On the other he sorted the fuck out of ISIS and calmed down North Korea. But something so much more. He offered a viable alternative as an example. If ANY other President but him achieved what he has achieved (and under severe duress) they would have their praises sung from the roof tops. Yes he does a lot of things that are not status quo and is indelicate and knocks over sacred cows but a lot of things were being done because that was the way they were always done and for not particularly good reason. NATO countries not paying agree remunerations towards their NATO commitments is point in case. He had every right to say what he said and though he did it very indelicately, what was the delicate way of asking? There was none because it was always meant to be too much of an embarrassing question to ask to support them never having to be asked. Trump had a knack of asking the "Well why not"? about a lot of things.
I see change. Not all good but change away from something that I see as mainly harmful. I see a few countries in the EU try to get out of the grip of the EU and I see hope. I see countries starting to put quotas on how many people can come into their countries and rejecting the EU Globalist idea of free traffic by all comers. The same idea as the Democrats are trying to push in America with Mexico.
I see some pushback against "Progressivism" and I think that is great. It is a shame it has to come from Conservatives but it is what it is.
Trump is not the ultimate answer to everything of course. But he gives another path and Australia will derive some influence from America and some from Europe. I am more confident with America's ability to shake off the pervasive soul sucking Progressive powerbrokers. Australia I imagine will probably instead of walking steadily down the Progressive path. Will probably have more influence and more of a balance to absorb. I think that is good. Seeing one way and one approach is bad.
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Well, I wouldn't consider it a good thing that we are a "cultural" influence to the rest of the world because what is exported is not what isn't, if you catch my drift. We are a lot bigger than the dominant narratives...and though the tide of popular culture often railroads over what diversity and folk life we have- we still manage to have it. We also have a lot reconciliation to work out among ourselves, things weve done...such as terrible experiments...the removal of people...the lawful discrimination against others. things that still scar. and we have cultures to remember- songs to rediscover, a whole new interest in various folk scenes....history of towns and settlements.
Now, the one good thing about our national identity and official culture of democracy, is that we have a history of THE PEOPLE doing what needs to be done. Whether its breaking away from Britain, standing our ground against confederate demands, or raising an internationally recognised movement for civil rights, creating conditions to keep workers safe, we get 'er done. Thats what you guys ought to take, and stop waiting for us to do what you guys need. You shouldn't ever look to anyone else but yourselves for what you need to change for yourselves. Our politicians are elected by our people- not by you or the world, so we are not going to be representing you, thinking about you, or winking at you-- so why look at us for change?
Quite frankly, the way things are moving along, politics aside, we are all going to be repeatedly kicked in the shins by mother nature in the coming years, and then subsequently by the aftermath on human populations (climate refugees, conflicts over land, massive migration)... so looking to us will really land you nowhere as our country currently officially pretends this wont happen, and that people who do migrate are probably just criminals. All of them. The men, women, and those sketchy little kids.
(for a better example, there are many African countries which have culturally dealt well with moving populations due to desertification, not all perfectly, but it would be instructive to look at those bordering and south of the Sahel)
Last thing- I am assuming you are an "ends justifies the means" kind of guy, because the president is so hurtful, vulgar, and offensive that there is really nothing to excuse that except a philosophy that if you get what you like (you- not anyone else), then its okay to incite hatred, violence, and feelings associated with oppression. Not to mention enacting policies and putting together committees with the specific agenda to target others rights. including my rights. this is probably the main reason why he doesn't get applause.
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NO!
The scars, the scars. Enough. When does America become post-racial. What concrete thing do you think needs to happen?
You will never stop some people from being racist any more than you would stop people from being murderers. You will always have racist, thieves, murderers and rapists in society. We are not going to use the fact that there are racists in America as proof of your point because for all I have said it isn't.
Not worried about people's sensitivities or feelings, these are subjective, easily exploited and subject to misreading things.
Concrete SG. What concrete things?
Perhaps to free slaves?
Fight a civil War
Perhaps to stop segregation?
Perhaps to have equal rights?
Perhaps after legal protections have been given against discrimination?
Perhaps when everyone who has ever been a slave or slave owner has died?
Perhaps when a black person has become Senator?
Perhaps after the first black President?
No? What specifically more than when people do not "feel" oppressed, or discriminated, or subject to bias?
Because anyone can feel whatever. They could look at their life and say "The man keeps me down" rather than "I have every opportunity and I may have squandered some but I am able to succeed as millions have"
If Progressives breed an offence culture and a victimisation culture against everyone and run narratives based on an ideology of the Progressive Stack and contract every people as either victims or privileged. Then whether anyone feel this or that is irrelevant, isn't it. If it is encouraged then people will virtue signal their offences and force themselves to feel so.
America has done enough. It has done far more than other countries in this regard.
I can tell you my Ancestors from Ireland were bought to my country half way across the world, in disease infested hulls of ships in chains and with then once they were delivered to this sunburnt island, (with blistering heat and every reptile or insect or aquatic life designed to hurt them, were set to work to build the very infrastructure - in chains - without pay - with threat of whip and cane by their English overseers. Even after they served their sentence they were discriminated against by the British. This is why heroes such as Ned Kelly were so often given refuge and notice of impending arrest. Kelly and his Family were NOT convicts but his father was convict who served his time. Most of the free convicts were beset of by the Squattocracy and police, even once they were freed.
So with all that said, ought I cling onto the sense of outrage and talk of scars? Do I like every other descendant of convicts recognise that that was a Hell of a long time ago and those people are long dead. Australia is not what it was back then and I am not a convict nor am I part of that era?
Offence and outrage and a sense of disenfranchisement and fear and oppression are easy things to exploit and capitalise on. The Democrats do it constantly which is amazing to me. How many of them admit the Democratic Party's part in Jim Crow? Slave ownership? KKK foundation and resurgence? Any of it? Who DO they blame and is it history re-writing and projection?
So yeah, if people get themselves all outraged....so what?
I am terribly sorry but when the Left makes it a point of calling anyone who doe not agree with everything they say "Far right" or "Alt-Right" or a bigot of some strain, and seeks to deplatform them and makes calls to violence and dox, then yes the chance at a civil conversation has concluded. You will not have the kid of hands-off nice but ineffective Conservative politicians avoiding rocking the boat. You will eventually have someone who rocks shit out of the boat and who is immune from attempts to run away from smear attempts and who are not going to be shamed into "he should rise above pettiness" (aka "Why does he hit back when we try to destroy him").
The Progressive Left bought this on themselves. They made themselves unable to have civil disagreements. I HOPE Trump puts a BIG whole in the Progressive movement and destroys their ideology. I hope people get upset. I hope they all huddle in their safe spaces and I hope that they never get the amount of cultural and societal control they have over the years. They are not able to wield it reasonably.
I would have preferred the process to be more civil and not need a Trump or a Conservative. I wish someone on the Left could have been that person and it to be reached a lot more civilly. But it is what it is.
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[Edited to remove parts based on exasperation at being misunderstood, which I shouldn't have been surprised about anyways.]
The main point I mean to make is that looking at our politicians (relying on them even) to inspire change in your own country is ill advised (because the nature of our political system, our cultures and communities, and what our politicians represent) and can only lead to hardship as I perceive it. Praise Trump as much as you like, he his not your president, will never be (likely), and he is a problem our country created and has to deal with. You might see him as a godsend, which is fine, as long as you realise who he is ultimately answerable to.
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians. :dunno:
Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians. :dunno:
Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.
This is actually untrue and only an idiot would say so.
Maybe instead of imagining i agree with him on everything, you could....i could let you know what things i don't agree with him on?
Spouting bullshit is more your sped and spreading lie and smear is far easier than trying to avail yourself of facts. Less critical thinking needed when you have all the answers to every question and they become fact because you say they are, right?
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[Edited to remove parts based on exasperation at being misunderstood, which I shouldn't have been surprised about anyways.]
The main point I mean to make is that looking at our politicians (relying on them even) to inspire change in your own country is ill advised (because the nature of our political system, our cultures and communities, and what our politicians represent) and can only lead to hardship as I perceive it. Praise Trump as much as you like, he his not your president, will never be (likely), and he is a problem our country created and has to deal with. You might see him as a godsend, which is fine, as long as you realise who he is ultimately answerable to.
Hardly a Godsend but just the right person at the right time for the right reasons.
I look at who in the American system could have been the kind of person to really stand up to the establishment and Globalists and Progressives.
The closest over the years that came close was Ron Paul. Paul (like Sanders) was populist rather than establishment, seasoned and reasonably popular. The truth is that neither had strength of will, animal cunning or ability to run over the of the other candidates and to give as good as they gor, and dismiss the slings and arrows coming their way.
Paul could not do it when he was running and as railroaded as Bernie was, the same would have happened to Paul if he was running and we would have got Hillary or Jeb two status quo establishment stooges both feeding from the same trough.
It HAD to be an impossible candidate. The type of person that was a fighter and could view things differently and was beholden to no one. Right person in this time of history. Right for now.
If he was calm, diplomatic, civil and always polite, he would not have been elected. In essence if you do not want things to run same same then you need a change you can't have another Bush or Clinton or their ilk. I do not agree with everything out of Trump mourh nor Paul's mouth. I do want change and the talking heads getting the angriest are the ones i dislike the most.
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Have you considered moving here? You might even find it all you ever dreamed it could be.
No. Way too many Americans. Hell, I would not even consider visiting America.
But that ansered, why ask that question in the first place?
You seem to have a deep interest in American politicians, it must be hard to be removed from the people they supposedly represent, hard to not have a say in the direction things are going, and hard to be so far away from ground zero. But now it seems you abhor Americans, so I don't know what to make of it. Now that I think about it, generally its the other way around- folks more likely to have compassion for, and interest in the people, and abhor the politicians. :dunno:
Al's basically a variant of the Trump voter but without the right to actually vote. He accepts what Trump does at face value and as gospel, and critical thinking is not really in his vocabulary.
This is actually untrue and only an idiot would say so.
Maybe instead of imagining i agree with him on everything, you could....i could let you know what things i don't agree with him on?
Spouting bullshit is more your sped and spreading lie and smear is far easier than trying to avail yourself of facts. Less critical thinking needed when you have all the answers to every question and they become fact because you say they are, right?
Only someone utterly blind to the facts readily available to him would disagree with what I said. But then, this particular moron has been known to do just that. I'd feel slightly sorry for him if I didn't know the extent of his stupidity.
Poor Al. Go on now, make it look like someone actually agrees with you.