INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: IlluSionS667 on August 08, 2008, 12:45:56 PM
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Austrian psychologist Asperger published the first definition of Asperger syndrome in 1944. In four boys, he identified a pattern of behavior and abilities that he called "autistic psychopathy", meaning autism (self) and psychopathy (personality disease). The pattern included "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." Asperger called children with AS "little professors" because of their ability to talk about their favorite subject in great detail.
Asperger was convinced that many of the children he identified as having autistic symptoms would use their special talents in adulthood. He followed one child, Fritz V., into adulthood. Fritz V. became a professor of astronomy and solved an error in Newton’s work he originally noticed as a child. Hans Asperger’s positive outlook contrasts strikingly with Leo Kanner's description of autism, of which Asperger's is often considered to be a high-functioning form. In his 1944 paper, Asperger wrote:
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
Near the end of World War II, Asperger opened a school for children with autistic psychopathy, with Sister Victorine. The school was bombed towards the end of the war, Sister Victorine was killed, the school was destroyed and much of Hans Asperger's early work was lost. It was this event that arguably delayed the understanding of autism spectrum conditions in the west.
Based on this information (fetched from Wikipedia), I think it would be safe to assume that Aspies would have been treated like normal Germans and certainly not be put up for extermination/euthanasia.
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Agree. :)
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Agree. :)
:indeed:
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The higher functioning people I think would have been safe but not the lower ones
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The higher functioning people I think would have been safe but not the lower ones
Who exactly was the T-4 euthanasia programma applied to according to mainstream sources? It is a well-accepted fact by orthodox and revisionist historians alike that the Third Reich applied mercy killings to those with severe incurable handicaps, but I've thusfar found neither in orthodox historians' sources nor in revisionist sources a description of what types of conditions were applicable for it.
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Well my wife works at a special ed high school some wear diapers I don't think they would have been safe
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branched that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
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I think there is not enough proof that there were Nazis. I think it is all propaganda and this question is obsolete.
I think that the so called World War was just an ongoing field exercise between various countries.
Certainly such views are bizarre and in the face of logic but......
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Hollywood hadn't quite put their spin on it. They needed John Wayne, Gary Cooper and a few others to convince the reat of the world that there was something going on, and what better way than to get MGM and Univeral to make a few war movies in the backlots.
Then they phoned Pinewood in Englsnd and told them they needed some movies like The Dam Busters and some others, so they got Alec guiness and others together. Almost worked, until they ran out of film in 1945.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery.
Let me quote Asperger again :
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery.
Let me quote Asperger again :
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
Obviously, Hans Asperger is arguing as passionately as he possibly can that the lives of his "autistic psychopaths" should be spared by the Nazis.
This quote you reference is a translation by Uta Frith of what Hans Asperger wrote in his paper on Asperger syndrome, however, Frith comments on this passage as follows:
"The historical background to this passionate defence of the social value of autism was the very real threat of Nazi terror which extended to killing mentally handicapped and socially deviant people."
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Obviously, Hans Asperger is arguing as passionately as he possibly can that the lives of his "autistic psychopaths" should be spared by the Nazis.
This quote you reference is a translation by Uta Frith of what Hans Asperger wrote in his paper on Asperger syndrome, however, Frith comments on this passage as follows:
"The historical background to this passionate defence of the social value of autism was the very real threat of Nazi terror which extended to killing mentally handicapped and socially deviant people."
Where's the evidence for this?
Again, I repeat my earlier question. Who exactly was the T-4 euthanasia programma applied to according to mainstream sources? It is a well-accepted fact by orthodox and revisionist historians alike that the Third Reich applied mercy killings to those with severe incurable handicaps, but I've thusfar found neither in orthodox historians' sources nor in revisionist sources a description of what types of conditions were applicable for it.
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Obviously, Hans Asperger is arguing as passionately as he possibly can that the lives of his "autistic psychopaths" should be spared by the Nazis.
This quote you reference is a translation by Uta Frith of what Hans Asperger wrote in his paper on Asperger syndrome, however, Frith comments on this passage as follows:
"The historical background to this passionate defence of the social value of autism was the very real threat of Nazi terror which extended to killing mentally handicapped and socially deviant people."
Where's the evidence for this?
I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
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I think if Hitler was Autistic and his Gestapo were people with Asperger's Syndrome then you would still not be safe from being indiscriminately exterminated, it would have nothing to do with you having Asperger's Syndrome. >:D
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Hell, or should that be heil, maybe the whole third fucking reich were Aspies or autistics, and the rest of Europe were NTs who were supposed to be wiped out. That would give some 'logic' to Delusionist's argument. Bullshit logic, but logic nonetheless. As far as we know, though, they weren't; and Hitler was just another psycho waging war on people to get some political gain and to take over his part of the world. Asperger should have put his quote more into context, but given the times, and possibly the fact he may have been unable to be understood, the message got lost in the rhetoric.
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Well my wife works at a special ed high school some wear diapers I don't think they would have been safe
I'd like to gas SG.
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Well my wife works at a special ed high school some wear diapers I don't think they would have been safe
I'd like to gas SG.
Fuck off TCO, that was funny.
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I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
Her saying so does not constitute as evidence.
Hell, or should that be heil, maybe the whole third fucking reich were Aspies or autistics, and the rest of Europe were NTs who were supposed to be wiped out.
No one was going to be wiped out....
Anyway, individuals like Adolf Hitler and Savitri Devi do seem to have certain features that could indicate Asperger's *, however I don't think there is enough objective info to prove this.
* Both individuals feature :
- an extreme obsession by a limited amount of interests and a great knowledge of those areas of interest
- a lack of empathy
- a lack of interest in small talk and personal life
- drifting off into irrelevancies
- above-average intelligence
- the ability and tendency to think beyond the prejudice of their environments
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Don't like it eh? Tough.
Delusionist still misses the point, but in his typical style he has proved what a real fuckwit he is. Even when Callaway gives him sothing to research for fact, he comes up with some lame bullshit. Oh well, maybe you shouldn't have come out of the closet, Delusionist. Given that there are too many poofters amongst the Nazi party as it is.
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I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
Her saying so does not constitute as evidence.
Hell, or should that be heil, maybe the whole third fucking reich were Aspies or autistics, and the rest of Europe were NTs who were supposed to be wiped out.
No one was going to be wiped out....
Anyway, individuals like Adolf Hitler and Savitri Devi do seem to have certain features that could indicate Asperger's *, however I don't think there is enough objective info to prove this.
* Both individuals feature :
- an extreme obsession by a limited amount of interests and a great knowledge of those areas of interest
- a lack of empathy
- a lack of interest in small talk and personal life
- drifting off into irrelevancies
- above-average intelligence
- the ability and tendency to think beyond the prejudice of their environments
Nothing you have said "constitutes" evidence either.
In all honesty, I just enjoy seeing TCO flame you.
I do think that Callaway will make you look rather small and ineffective. Then again suspect a large part of the reason for that is that you are small and......
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Don't like it eh? Tough.
Delusionist still misses the point, but in his typical style he has proved what a real fuckwit he is. Even when Callaway gives him sothing to research for fact, he comes up with some lame bullshit. Oh well, maybe you shouldn't have come out of the closet, Delusionist. Given that there are too many poofters amongst the Nazi party as it is.
Though I don't agree with Illusionists's views, his rhetoric ain't quite as lame nor pointless. :thumbdn:
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I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
Her saying so does not constitute as evidence.
Your claiming the opposite isn't exactly "evidence" either. ::)
Are you sure that the last "7" wasn't the page number or something? Your intelligence seems to be more on par with my shoe size. Well, a little less, actually.
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Well my wife works at a special ed high school some wear diapers I don't think they would have been safe
I'd like to gas SG.
:LMAO:
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I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
Her saying so does not constitute as evidence.
Your claiming the opposite isn't exactly "evidence" either. ::)
I never implied it was. With regards to the T-4 program, I'm not familiar with any evidence either way.
Your intelligence seems to be more on par with my shoe size. Well, a little less, actually.
You're the one drawing to conclusions without evidence, not I.... and you're the one putting words in other people's mouths.
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I'd say I have plenty of evidence of your fuckwittage.
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I'd say I have plenty of evidence of your fuckwittage.
Your own idiocy you mean.
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Nope, I really mean your utter lack of brain, in spite of that claimed IQ of yours. :hahaha:
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Nope, I really mean your utter lack of brain, in spite of that claimed IQ of yours. :hahaha:
What does an pathetic idiotic moron like you know about brains anyway?
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I guess if you need evidence you could pick up a copy of Uta Frith's book Autism and Asperger syndrome, turn to pages 89 and 90, and read it for yourself.
Her saying so does not constitute as evidence.
You have no problem recognizing her expertise by repeatedly quoting without attributing her as the source, part of her translation of Hans Asperger's 1944 paper, out of context, so I simply supplied the context, which she also wrote.
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You have no problem recognizing her expertise by repeatedly quoting without attributing her as the source, part of her translation of Hans Asperger's 1944 paper, out of context, so I simply supplied the context, which she also wrote.
I saw no reason not to take her translation as accurate.
I fail to see why it is relevant to mention the translator or how the translator's personal views on Asperger's motivations are remotely relevant, unless they are based on evidence and therefore verifiable. In that case, her sources matter.
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And I feel no need to take your version of the events as proof that you have any idea of what went on. Callaway gave you the quote from the book regarding Asperger's quote, and you threw metaphotical sand on it REGARDLESS of the fact that it was i) well reasearched by Callaway and ii) something that you even used yourself. Your whole dissertation on what has happened both with the Nazis and the Holocaust as well as Asperger's quote are the examples of a mind that is so willing to be indoctrinated, and yet unwilling to believe that the indoctrination is in fact lies, mis-truths and pure specualtive hyperbole. Or in other words, just pure bullshit.
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Hollywood hadn't quite put their spin on it. They needed John Wayne, Gary Cooper and a few others to convince the reat of the world that there was something going on, and what better way than to get MGM and Univeral to make a few war movies in the backlots.
Then they phoned Pinewood in Englsnd and told them they needed some movies like The Dam Busters and some others, so they got Alec guiness and others together. Almost worked, until they ran out of film in 1945.
Yes--they ran out of film stock because of rationing due to the war. So in order to continue to film the war, they would have had to end rationing, which would have meant ending the war.
By the way, I'm originally from Crete. All Cretans are liars. So, everything I say is a lie.
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Hollywood hadn't quite put their spin on it. They needed John Wayne, Gary Cooper and a few others to convince the reat of the world that there was something going on, and what better way than to get MGM and Univeral to make a few war movies in the backlots.
Then they phoned Pinewood in Englsnd and told them they needed some movies like The Dam Busters and some others, so they got Alec guiness and others together. Almost worked, until they ran out of film in 1945.
Yes--they ran out of film stock because of rationing due to the war. So in order to continue to film the war, they would have had to end rationing, which would have meant ending the war.
By the way, I'm originally from Crete. All Cretans are liars. So, everything I say is a lie.
do you oil yourself up and do that thing with the bulls, o Minotaur Man? ;)
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You have no problem recognizing her expertise by repeatedly quoting without attributing her as the source, part of her translation of Hans Asperger's 1944 paper, out of context, so I simply supplied the context, which she also wrote.
I saw no reason not to take her translation as accurate.
I fail to see why it is relevant to mention the translator or how the translator's personal views on Asperger's motivations are remotely relevant, unless they are based on evidence and therefore verifiable. In that case, her sources matter.
well, dur you, cos hermeneutics is of the utmost important: everyone has various filters based on life experience, aganeda, etc., and so interpretation can be ever so slightly skewed, no matter how objective one tries to be.
you argue a load of crap, citing all sorts of sources, and you haven't taken that into consideration? fuckwad. ::)
:hahaha:
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Hollywood hadn't quite put their spin on it. They needed John Wayne, Gary Cooper and a few others to convince the reat of the world that there was something going on, and what better way than to get MGM and Univeral to make a few war movies in the backlots.
Then they phoned Pinewood in Englsnd and told them they needed some movies like The Dam Busters and some others, so they got Alec guiness and others together. Almost worked, until they ran out of film in 1945.
Yes--they ran out of film stock because of rationing due to the war. So in order to continue to film the war, they would have had to end rationing, which would have meant ending the war.
By the way, I'm originally from Crete. All Cretans are liars. So, everything I say is a lie.
do you oil yourself up and do that thing with the bulls, o Minotaur Man? ;)
Yes. And no.
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Hollywood hadn't quite put their spin on it. They needed John Wayne, Gary Cooper and a few others to convince the reat of the world that there was something going on, and what better way than to get MGM and Univeral to make a few war movies in the backlots.
Then they phoned Pinewood in Englsnd and told them they needed some movies like The Dam Busters and some others, so they got Alec guiness and others together. Almost worked, until they ran out of film in 1945.
Yes--they ran out of film stock because of rationing due to the war. So in order to continue to film the war, they would have had to end rationing, which would have meant ending the war.
By the way, I'm originally from Crete. All Cretans are liars. So, everything I say is a lie.
do you oil yourself up and do that thing with the bulls, o Minotaur Man? ;)
Yes. And no.
ooooooh, you international man of mystery! :-*
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Nope, I really mean your utter lack of brain, in spite of that claimed IQ of yours. :hahaha:
What does an pathetic idiotic moron like you know about brains anyway?
I would explain but you wouldn't understand.
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You have no problem recognizing her expertise by repeatedly quoting without attributing her as the source, part of her translation of Hans Asperger's 1944 paper, out of context, so I simply supplied the context, which she also wrote.
I saw no reason not to take her translation as accurate.
I fail to see why it is relevant to mention the translator or how the translator's personal views on Asperger's motivations are remotely relevant, unless they are based on evidence and therefore verifiable. In that case, her sources matter.
In other words, you see no reason to include information disproving your views.
Dr Konrad, remember? :hahaha:
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I think he is still getting off on Dr Mengele, to tell you the truth.... :indeed:
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I think he is still getting off on Dr Mengele, to tell you the truth.... :indeed:
Mein Gott, *please* let him be the only one who is... :agreed:
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And I feel no need to take your version of the events as proof that you have any idea of what went on.
I don't even have a version of the events in this case, so WTF are you talking about?
whole dissertation on what has happened both with the Nazis and the Holocaust as well as Asperger's quote are the examples of a mind that is so willing to be indoctrinated, and yet unwilling to believe that the indoctrination is in fact lies, mis-truths and pure specualtive hyperbole.
You're the prejudiced one, not I.
everyone has various filters based on life experience, aganeda, etc., and so interpretation can be ever so slightly skewed, no matter how objective one tries to be.
I'm 100% Aspie. I don't filter at all. I just rationally analyse the data to figure out what is BS and what is not.
you argue a load of crap, citing all sorts of sources, and you haven't taken that into consideration?
I ALWAYS take into consideration that people might have an agenda, regardless of the source.
What does an pathetic idiotic moron like you know about brains anyway?
I would explain but you wouldn't understand.
I strongly doubt that. Just try me.
to mention the translator or how the translator's personal views on Asperger's motivations are remotely relevant, unless they are based on evidence and therefore verifiable. In that case, her sources matter.
In other words, you see no reason to include information disproving your views.
In other words, I see no reason to include speculatory statements.
You somehow seem to mix up disagreement with disproval.
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That's funny. You have no problem including "speculatory" statements when they suit you.
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That's funny. You have no problem including "speculatory" statements when they suit you.
The vast majority of my statements rests on proven facts. As a rule, I only try to speculate on philosophical matters.
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Do other people in Belgium like you? :-\
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Vlaams Blok probably do.
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You have no problem recognizing her expertise by repeatedly quoting without attributing her as the source, part of her translation of Hans Asperger's 1944 paper, out of context, so I simply supplied the context, which she also wrote.
I saw no reason not to take her translation as accurate.
I fail to see why it is relevant to mention the translator or how the translator's personal views on Asperger's motivations are remotely relevant, unless they are based on evidence and therefore verifiable. In that case, her sources matter.
Do you speak German, Illusion?
I found some words speaking to Hans Asperger's motivations written by Hans Asperger himself but unfortunately I don't speak German, so I'm not sure of the Babelfish translation.
Here is the original article:
Autismus und NS-Rassengesetze in Österreich 1938: Hans Aspergers Verteidigung der »autistischen Psychopathen« gegen die NS-Eugenik
Brita Schirmer
In der Autismusforschung gibt es zwei Pioniere: Leo Kanner und Hans Asperger. Es herrscht derzeit Konsens darüber, dass beide unabhängig voneinander im Jahr 1943 anhand von Falldarstellungen ein eigenes Störungsbild bei Kindern beschrieben, zu dessen begrifflicher Kennzeichnung sie das Adjektiv autistisch verwandten. Die Arbeit Hans Aspergers war als Habilitationsschrift im Jahre 1943 eingereicht, allerdings erst 1944 veröffentlicht worden.
Der Begriff Autismus war bereits Jahrzehnte zuvor als Neologismus von Eugen Bleuler, einem Schweizer Psychiater, geprägt worden. In seiner Schrift Dementia Praecox oder Gruppe der Schizophrenien, erschienen im Jahre 1911 in Leipzig und Wien, bezeichnete er damit eines der Grundsymptome bei Schizophrenien:
»Eine ganz besondere und für die Schizophrenie charakteristische Alteration aber erleidet das Wechselverhältnis des Binnenlebens mit der Außenwelt. Das Binnenleben bekommt ein krankhaftes Übergewicht (Autismus).«
Es kann als sicher angenommen werden, dass Leo Kanner und Hans Asperger die fachwissenschaftlich äußerst bedeutsame Arbeit Eugen Bleulers kannten. Bei Hans Asperger kann dies nachgewiesen werden, er bezog sich in seiner Habilitationsschrift explizit auf sie:
»In dem Bemühen, jene Grundstörung zu finden und begrifflich zu fassen, von der aus die Persönlichkeit dieser Gruppe abartiger Kinder durchorganisiert erscheint, haben wir die Bezeichnung ‚Autistische Psychopathen’ gewählt. Der Name leitet sich von dem Begriff des Autismus her, jener bei Schizophrenen in exremer Weise ausgeprägten Grundstörung. Der Ausdruck – unseres Erachtens eine der großartigsten sprachlichen und begrifflichen Schöpfungen auf dem Gebiet medizinischer Namensgebung – stammt bekanntlich von Bleuler.«
Die fast gleichzeitige Verwendung des Adjektives autistisch bei Leo Kanner und Hans Asperger zur Kennzeichnung einer bislang unbekannten Störung bei Kindern kann also keinesfalls als zufällig bezeichnet werden.
Entgegen der Auffassung von der erstmaligen Beschreibung und Benennung eines Zustandsbildes aus dem Formenkreis des Autismus schilderte Hans Asperger aber nicht erst 1943, sondern bereits fünf Jahre zuvor die Besonderheiten so genannter »autistischer Psychopathen« und verwendete auch diese Bezeichnung. Am 03. Oktober 1938 hatte er in der Heilpädagogischen Abteilung der Universitätsklinik Wien, deren Leitung er seit 1932 inne hatte, einen Vortrag gehalten, in dem er anhand eines Fallbeispiels die Charakteristika der »autistischen Psychopathen« darstellte. Der Vortrag, der unter dem Titel Das psychisch abnorme Kind im gleichen Jahr in der Wiener Klinischen Wochenzeitschrift abgedruckt wurde, muss heute aus drei Gründen gewürdigt werden:
Zum Ersten findet man hier erstmalig die Symptomatik dessen beschrieben, was man heute Asperger-Syndrom nennt. Anhand eines Fallbeispiels skizzierte Hans Asperger bereits einen großen Teil der Symptome, die er in seiner Habilitationsschrift im Jahre 1943 als kennzeichnend für die »autistischen Psychopathen« darstellt: die Einengung der Beziehungen zur Umwelt, die so genannten »Bosheitsakte«, die motorische Ungeschicklichkeit, das gute logische Denkvermögen und die gute sprachliche Ausdrucksfähigkeit, die Sonderinteressen, Besonderheiten in der Wahrnehmung und im Lernen und die erbliche Disposition der Störung. Andere Charakteristika, wie die Konstanz der Symptomatik, die nach seiner Beurteilung schon vom zweiten Lebensjahr an und über die gesamte Lebenszeit hinweg bestehen bleibt, die Besonderheiten des Blicks und der Verwendung von Mimik und Gestik, das von ihm beobachtete reife Kunstverständnis und Auffälligkeiten in der Sexualität beschrieb er erst in seiner Habilitationsschrift. Dies kann sowohl Hans Aspergers damaligem Forschungsstand als auch dem zur Verfügung stehenden Druckumfang geschuldet sein.
Vermutete man bislang, dass in der Literatur die ersten Beschreibungen eines eigenständigen Syndroms aus dem Kontinuum autistischer Störungen von Leo Kanner im Jahre 1943 und etwas später von Hans Asperger gefunden werden können, muss dies nun für Hans Asperger vordatiert werden. Seine Bedeutung als Pionier der Autismusforschung, als der er immer ein wenig im Schatten Leo Kanners stand, wird damit deutlich erhöht. Leo Kanner, der im Jahre 1924 in die USA ausgewandert war, hatte seinen Aufsatz in englischer Sprache geschrieben und wurde damit international bald bekannt. Hans Aspergers in deutscher Sprache publizierte Schriften hingegen wurden zunächst wenig beachtet. Erst als Lorna Wing seine Habilitationsschrift ins Englische übersetzte, fand seine Arbeit größere Resonanz. Den von Hans Asperger gewählten Begriff autistische Psychopathie ersetzte Lorna Wing durch die Bezeichnung Asperger-Syndrom, die bis heute geläufig ist.
Im Kontext des bislang relativ unbekannten Vortrages von Hans Asperger muss nun auch gefragt werden, aus welchem Grund Leo Kanner in seiner Schrift von 1944 darauf verwies, dass er seit 1938, ausgerechnet dem Jahr also, in dem Hans Aspergers Aufsatz erschien, auf eine Anzahl von Kindern aufmerksam wurde, deren Zustand sich so markant und in Einzelheiten von allem anderen unterschied, was bis dahin berichtet wurde:
»Since 1938, there have come to our attention a number of children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far, that each case merits – and, I hope, will eventually receive – a detailed consideration of its fascinating peculiarities.«
Leo Kanner erklärte diese Jahreszahl in seinem Text nicht weiter, es sollte aber zumindest in Betracht gezogen werden, dass der Österreicher fachwissenschaftlichen Publikationen seines Herkunftslandes verfolgt und von Hans Aspergers Aufsatz Kenntnis hatte. Damit soll an dieser Stelle keinesfalls ein Plagiatsvorwurf gemacht werden, möglicherweise eröffnete Hans Aspergers Aufsatz Leo Kanner aber einen neuen Blickwinkel auf einige seiner Kinder.
Zweitens muss neben der wissenschaftlichen Bedeutung dieses Vortrages auch gewürdigt werden, dass er ganz offensichtlich dem Schutz der ihm anvertrauten Kinder diente. Im Kontext des Gesetzes über die Wiedervereinigung Österreichs mit dem Deutschen Reich vom 13.03.1938 drohte nun auch in Österreich die Durchsetzung des Gesetzes zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses (14.07.1933), das am 01.01.1934 in Kraft trat. Zwar blieb nach Artikel II des erstgenannten Gesetzes das geltende Recht in Österreich zunächst weiter in Kraft, die Einführung des so genannten »Reichsrechtes« stand aber in Aussicht und zu befürchten. Tatsächlich wurde das Gesetz zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses, wie es Hans Asperger in seinem Vortrag vorhergesehen hatte, am 01.01.1940 auch in Österreich wirksam. Die rassenhygienischen Ideen der Nazis waren bereits im Jahre 1938 in Österreich massiv in die Politik und Wissenschaft eingedrungen. Schon im Jahre 1924 hatte sich an der Universität Wien, an der ja auch Hans Asperger tätig war, eine Wiener Gesellschaft für Rassenpflege gegründet, die im Jahre 1938 ihre enge Verbindung mit der Nationalsozialistischen Bewegung bekannte und zugleich eine rege Vortragstätigkeit zeigte. Nachdem Österreich im März 1938 Teil des Deutschen Reiches geworden war, wurden »erb- und rassenbiologische Lehren« offiziell in den Forschungs- und Lehrbetrieb integriert. Es begann eine breite Propaganda, um den Boden für die verbrecherischen Absichten und Praktiken in der Bevölkerung zu bereiten.
Vor diesem Hintergrund muss Hans Aspergers Vortrag als ein Plädoyer für seine Schützlinge und deren Erziehung verstanden werden. In einer geschickten Argumentation verwies Hans Asperger zunächst in distanzierter Art und Weise auf die zum damaligen Zeitpunkt aktuellen gesellschaftlichen Veränderungen und ihre Auswirkungen auf die Psychiatrie. Dann aber wechselte er die Perspektive vom »Standpunkt der Volksgesundheit« zum »Standpunkt der abnormen Kinder« – ein Blickwinkel, der zu dieser Zeit ungewöhnlich war und keinesfalls mit der in dieser Zeit auch an der Universität Wien verbreiteten faschistischen Ideologie des »lebensunwerten Lebens« vereinbart werden kann. Damit wurde es ihm aber nun möglich aufzuzeigen, dass diese Kinder gefördert werden müssen:
»Wieviel können wir für diese Menschen leisten? soll die Frage sein. Und wenn wir mit all unserer Hingabe ihnen helfen, so tun wir damit auch unserem Volk den besten Dienst; nicht nur dadurch, daß wir verhindern, daß jene durch ihre dissozialen und kriminellen Taten die Volksgemeinschaft belasten, sondern auch dadurch, daß wir zu erreichen suchen, daß sie als arbeitende Menschen ihren Platz in dem lebendigen Organismus des Volkes ausfüllen.«
Er bezeichnete es also als den »besten Dienst« an der »Volksgemeinschaft«, wenn man diesen Kindern mit aller Hingabe hilft. Der Hinweis darauf, dass sie als »arbeitende Menschen ihren Platz in dem lebendigen Organismus des Volkes ausfüllen« können, wird sich gegen das Argument der faschistischen Ideologen gerichtet haben, dass Menschen mit Behinderungen so genannte »Fürsorgekosten« verursachen, die die so genannten »gesunden Volksgenossen« belasten. Schon Schüler der Volksschule mussten die entstehenden Kosten für die Versorgung von »Krüppeln«, »Blinden« und »Geisteskranken« in Textaufgaben errechnen.
Hans Asperger verwies auch nachdrücklich darauf, dass nicht alles »abnorme« zugleich »minderwertig« sein muss und entwertete so ein wichtiges Argument, von dem diesen Kindern im Zuge des Gesetzes zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses Gefahr drohte. Heute weiß man, dass die zwangsweise Sterilisation von so genannten »Erbkranken« die erste verbrecherische Maßnahme war, die die Nationalsozialisten nach ihrer Machtergreifung auf dem Gebiet der »Erb- und Rassenpflege« durchführten. Es folgte später die Vernichtung dieser Menschen.
»Minderwertig« – dieser Begriff, im Kontext von Menschen verwendet, erschreckt heute. Die Vorstellung der Minderwertigkeit von Menschen ist das Ergebnis des Versuchs, eine Werteskala in die Anthropologie und Ethnologie einzuführen. Es ging nicht nur darum, die Verschiedenheit von Menschen festzustellen und zu beschreiben, sondern zudem eine Wertigkeit zu konstruieren. Hans Asperger lehnte die Bezeichnung »minderwertig« ganz augenscheinlich ab und machte das noch einmal besonders deutlich, indem er das Adjektiv in Anführungszeichen setzte.
Möglicherweise ist es also keinesfalls zufällig, dass sich Hans Asperger mit den »autistische Psychopathen« einer Gruppe von Kindern zuwandte, deren Entwicklungsperspektive eher positiv zu sein schien, als die der von Leo Kanner geschilderten – obwohl auch Donald, der erste von Leo Kanner geschilderte Junge, wie man heute weiß, später ein unabhängiges und selbstständiges Leben führen konnte. Es sollte in Betracht gezogen werden, dass Hans Asperger sein wissenschaftliches Interesse auf diese Kinder richtete, in der Hoffnung, sie so vor dem Zugriff der Euthanasie-Anhänger zu schützen.
In seinem Vortrag am 03. Oktober 1938 ging es ihm allerdings nicht nur um den Schutz dieser Kindergruppe, sondern zugleich aller so genannten »Psychopathen«. In einem geschickten argumentativen Schachzug legt er präventiv den Ärzten, die als Gutachter Entscheidungen für das in Österreich noch gar nicht in Kraft getretene Gesetz zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses tätig werden würden, nahe, nicht nur einen Fragebogen oder einen Intelligenzquotienten, sondern in erster Linie die gesamte kindliche Persönlichkeit und alle Fähigkeiten des Kindes in Rechnung ziehen:
»Habe ich im obigen einen Typus geschildert, dessen wesentliche Abnormität begründet ist in einer Störung der Harmonie zwischen Verstand und Instinkt im Sinne einer Instinktstörung, so gibt es in der Psychopathologie des Kindesalters nicht ganz selten einen Typus, der in fast allen Zügen den Gegensatz des eben Geschilderten darstellt: Diese Kinder sind intellektuell unterdurchschnittlich entwickelt (bis zur Debilität), wobei hier unter Intelligenz die abstrakte Intelligenz verstanden ist, während der praktische Verstand, kurz gesagt, alles was mit dem Instinkt zusammenhängt, darum auch die praktische Brauchbarkeit, aber auch die Werte des Gemütes relativ viel besser entwickelt sind. Diese letzten Fälle sind wichtig – oder werden es bei uns werden, wenn das ‚Gesetz zur Verhütung erbkranken Nachwuchses’ auch bei uns in Kraft tritt. Wird der Arzt als Begutachter in solchen Fällen vor eine Entscheidung gestellt, so wird er diese nicht allein nach dem Ergebnis der Beantwortung eines Fragebogens oder nach der Ziffer des Intelligenzquotienten treffen dürfen, sondern in erster Linie nach seiner Kenntnis der kindlichen Persönlichkeit, eine Kenntnis, die alle Fähigkeiten des Kindes, nicht nur die abstrakte Intelligenz in Rechnung stellt.«
Doch dieser frühe Aufsatz ist für die Autismusforschung noch aus einem dritten Grund bedeutsam: Bereits im Jahre 1938 beschrieb Hans Asperger pädagogische Prinzipien in der Arbeit mit den »autistischen Psychopathen«, die bis zum heutigen Tage als gültig akzeptiert werden können, z.B. das vorrangige Ansprechen des Verstandes vor den Emotionen oder die Regelhaftigkeiten im Tagesablauf und dessen Vorhersehbarkeit.
Als Leiter der Heilpädagogischen Abteilung der Universitäts-Kinderklinik Wien verband er medizinische und pädagogische Förderansätze. Der Begriff Heilpädagogik umfasst in Österreich mehr als nur Sonderschulpädagogik. Es wird darunter ebenfalls das verstanden, was in der Bundesrepublik Jugendpsychiatrie heißt.
Es bleibt damit nicht nur die wissenschaftliche Leistung Hans Aspergers zu würdigen sondern auch seine Menschlichkeit und seinen mutigen Einsatz für die ihm anvertrauten Kinder in Zeiten, in denen dies keinesfalls selbstverständlich und ungefährlich war.
Here is the Babelfish translation:
Autismus and LV race laws in Austria 1938: Hans Aspergers defense of the” autistischen Psychopathen “against the LV-Eugenik
appeared in Hans Aspergers defense ‚of the autistischen Psychopathen' against the LV-Eugenik. In: The new special school 47 (2002) 6, P. 460-464.
Dr. Brita Schirmer
In the Autismusforschung are there two pioneers: Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger. It prevails at present to consent over it that both described their own disturbance picture independently in the year 1943 on the basis of drop representations with children, to whose conceptual marking it the adjective autistisch used. The work Hans Aspergers had been submitted as Habilitationsschrift in the year 1943, however only 1944 had been published.
The term Autismus had been coined/shaped already decades before as Neologismus of Eugen Bleuler, a Swiss psychiatrist. In its writing Dementia Praecox or group of the Schizophrenien, published in the year 1911 in Leipzig and Vienna, he designated thereby one of the basic symptoms with Schizophrenien:
” A completely special and old person ration characteristic of the schizophrenia however suffers the Wechselverhältnis of the internal life with the outside world. The internal life gets a diseased predominance (Autismus). “
It can be accepted as safe that Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger knew the specializedscientifically extremely important work Eugen Bleulers. With Hans Asperger can be proven this, it referred in his Habilitationsschrift explicitly to it:
” In the effort to find and conceptually seize that basic disturbance, from which the personality appears organized to this group of abnormal children, we selected the designation ‚Autisti Psychopathen'. The name deduces itself from the term of the Autismus, that basic disturbance minted with Schizophrenen in exremer way. The expression - our judgement one of the greatest linguistic and conceptual creations in the area of medical naming - comes as well known from Bleuler. “
The nearly simultaneous use of the adjective autistisch with Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger for the marking of a so far unknown disturbance with children cannot be called thus under any circumstances coincidental.
Against the view of the first description and designation of a condition picture from the form circle of the Autismus Hans Asperger already described however not only 1943, but five years before the characteristics” autistischer Psychopathen so called “and used also this designation. On 03 October 1938 it had held a lecture, in which it represented the characteristics of the” autistischen Psychopathen “on the basis a case example in the welfare-educational department of the university clinic Vienna, whose line it had since 1932. The lecture, which was printed under the title the psychologically abnorme child in the same year in the Viennese clinical weekly newspaper, must be appreciated today for three reasons:
To first one finds here for the first time the symptomatology to its descriptive, what one calls today Asperger syndrome. On the basis a case example Hans Asperger already outlined a large part of the symptoms, which he represents in its Habilitationsschrift in the year 1943 as characteristic for the” autistischen Psychopathen “: restricting the relations with the environment, the” Bosheitsakte so called “, the motor awkwardness, the good logical intellectual capacity and the good linguistic expression ability, the special interests, characteristics in the perception and in learning and the hereditary arrangement of the disturbance. Other characteristics, as the Konstanz of the symptomatology, which remains existing after its evaluation from the second year of life to and over the entire lifetime away, observed the characteristics of the view and the use of Mimik and gesturing, from it ripe art understanding and remarkablenesses in sexuality described it only in its Habilitationsschrift. This can be owed both Hans Aspergers state of research at that time and the printing extent the available.
If one assumed so far the fact that in the literature the first descriptions of their own syndrome from the continuum of autistischer disturbances of Leo Kanner can be found in the year 1943 and somewhat later by Hans Asperger must be antedated this now for Hans Asperger. Its meaning as a pioneer of the Autismusforschung, when who always stood it a little in the shade Leo Kanners, thereby clearly increased. Leo Kanner, which had emigrated in the year 1924 into the USA, had written and became known its essay in English language thereby internationally soon. Hans Aspergers in German language published writings however first little was considered. Only as Lorna Wing his Habilitationsschrift in English translated, found its work larger resonance. The term autistische Psychopathie replaced Lorna Wing by the designation Asperger syndrome, selected by Hans Asperger, which is common until today.
In the context so far relatively of of the unknown lecture of Hans Asperger it must be also asked now for what reason Leo Kanner in its writing of 1944 referred to it that he appeared calculated to the year since 1938, thus, in the Hans Aspergers essay, to a number of children became attentive, whose condition differed so saliently and in details from all different one, what was up to then reported:
” Since 1938, there have come ton our attention A NUMBER OF children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far, that each case merits - and, I hope, wants eventually receive - A detailed consideration OF its fascinating peculiarities. “
Leo Kanner continued to explain this year in its text not, it should however at least be considered that the Austrian had specializedscientific publications of his country of origin pursued and from Hans Aspergers essay knowledge. Thus here under any circumstances a plagiarism reproach is not to be made, possibly opened Hans Aspergers essay Leo Kanner however a new point of view on some its children.
Secondly it must be also appreciated apart from the scientific meaning of this lecture that he completely obviously to the protection it entrusted children served. In the context of the law over the reunification of Austria with the German Reich of 13.03.1938 now the penetration of the law threatened for preventing hereditaryill new generation (14.07.1933) also in Austria, which stepped to 01.01.1934 into force. The valid right continued to remain in Austria into force, the introduction of the” realm right so called “first was expected however and to fear according to the article II of the first mentioned law. The law had actually foreseen Hans Asperger in its lecture for preventing hereditaryill new generation, like it, to 01.01.1940 also in Austria effectively. The race-hygenic ideas of the Nazis had already penetrated substantial in the year 1938 in Austria in the policy and science. Already in the year 1924 at the university Vienna, at which also Hans Asperger was active, had been based Viennese a society for race care, which at the same time showed its close connection with the National Socialist movement well-known and an active lecture activity in the year 1938. After Austria had become in March 1938 part of the German Reich,” inherit and race-biological teachings “were integrated officially in the research and training enterprise. It began a broad propaganda, in order to prepare the ground for the criminal intentions and practices in the population.
Before this background Hans Aspergers lecture must be understood as a final speech for its favorites and their education. In a skillful argumentation Hans Asperger referred first in reserved way to at the time at that time the current social changes and their effects to the psychiatry. Then however it changed the perspective of the” point of view of the public health “for the” point of view of the abnormen children “- a point of view, which was unusual at this time and under any circumstances with in this time also cannot be agreed upon the fascist ideology of the” lebensunwerten life “common at the university Vienna. Thus it became it however now possible to point out that these children must be promoted:
” How much can we carry out for these humans? the question is to be. And if we help them with all our devotion, then we do thereby also the best service to our people; not only thereby that we prevent that those by their dissozialen and criminal acts the community load, but also thus that we seek to reach that they fill out their place in the alive organism of the people as working humans. “
It called it thus the” best service “at the” community “, if one helps these children with all devotion. The reference to it that they fill out their place in the alive organism of the people as” working humans “can, will have been directed against the argument of the fascist ideologists that humans with handicaps cause” welfare service costs so called “, which load the” healthy people comrades so called “. Already pupils of the elementary school had to calculate the developing costs of the supply of” Krüppeln “,” blind ones “and” spirit patients “in tasks of text.
Hans Asperger referred also seriously to the fact that all” abnorme “does not have to be” inferior “at the same time and cancelled such an important argument, from which for preventing hereditaryill new generation danger threatened these children in the course of the law. Today one knows that the obligatory sterilisation of” hereditary patients so called “was the first criminal measure, which the National Socialists accomplished after their seizure of power in the area of the” inheriting and race care “. Later the destruction of these humans followed.
” Inferior “- this term, in the context used by humans, frightens today. The conception of the inferiority of humans is the result of the attempt to introduce a value scale to the anthropology and Ethnologie. It concerned not only to determine and describe the difference of humans to design but besides a priority. Hans Asperger rejected the designation” inferior “completely apparently and made that again particularly clear, by setting the adjective in quotation marks.
Possibly is it thus under no circumstances coincidental that itself Hans Asperger with” autistische Psychopathen “group of children turned, whose development perspective rather positively to be seemed, when those of Leo Kanner described - although also Donald, which first boy described by Leo Kanner, as one knows today, could lead later an independent and independent life. It should be considered that Hans Asperger directed his scientific interest toward these children, in hope, it against the access of the euthanasia supporters to protect in such a way.
In its lecture on 03 October 1938 it concerned to it at the same time however not only the protection of this group of children, but all” Psychopathen so called “. In a skillful argumentative chess move it suggests preventively, not only a questionnaire or an intelligence quotient, but primarily the entire childlike personality and all abilities of the child in calculation to the physicians, who would become active as consultants decisions for the law stepped into Austria still not at all into force preventing hereditaryill new generation, to pull:
” Property I in the above type described, its substantial abnormality is justified in a disturbance of the harmony between understanding and instinct in the sense of an instinct disturbance, then there is not completely rarely a type, which represents the contrast evenly of the recital in nearly all courses in the Psychopathologie of the infancy: These children are intellectually below average developed (up to the Debilität), whereby by intelligence abstract intelligence is understood here, while the practical understanding, briefly said, everything which with the instinct is connected, therefore also practical usefulness, in addition, the values of the mind are relatively much better developed. These last cases are important - or it with us will become, if ‚the law steps hereditaryill Nachwuchses' for preventing also with us into force. If the physician is placed as Begutachter in such cases before a decision, then he will be allowed to meet these not alone after the result of the answer of a questionnaire or after the number of the intelligence quotient, but primarily after his knowledge of the childlike personality, a knowledge, which charges for all abilities of the child, not only abstract intelligence. “
But this early essay is important for the Autismusforschung still for a third reason: Already in the year 1938 Hans Asperger described educational principles in the work with the” autistischen Psychopathen “, which up to today as valid, e.g. priority responding of the understanding before the emotions or the Regelhaftigkeiten in the routine of the day can be accepted and its foreseeableness.
As a director/conductor of the welfare-educational department of the university University of Vienna connected it medical and educational promotion beginnings. The term Heilpädagogik covers Sonderschulpädagogik in Austria more than only. It is likewise understood by it, what in the Federal Republic youth psychiatry is called.
It remains appreciating thereby not only the scientific achievement Hans Aspergers to but also its humanity and his courageous employment for it entrusted children in times, in which this was under no circumstances natural and harmless.
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Considering my native tongue is Dutch and I used to live pretty close to Germany, I have some understanding of the German language.
You quoted a text by Brita Schirmer, not by Hans Asperger. In the quotes she produces, I find no indication whatsover that Asperger feared his subjects might be euthanised.
The most relevant quote is this one :
»Wieviel können wir für diese Menschen leisten? soll die Frage sein. Und wenn wir mit all unserer Hingabe ihnen helfen, so tun wir damit auch unserem Volk den besten Dienst; nicht nur dadurch, daß wir verhindern, daß jene durch ihre dissozialen und kriminellen Taten die Volksgemeinschaft belasten, sondern auch dadurch, daß wir zu erreichen suchen, daß sie als arbeitende Menschen ihren Platz in dem lebendigen Organismus des Volkes ausfüllen.«
I wound translate them in modern English like this :
” The question will be : how much can we do for these people? [The answer to this question is obvious, though.] When we help them with all our devotion, we also help our people. We do this not only by preventing them from damaging the community by means of antisocial or criminal acts, but also by making sure that these people find their place as working men and women within the Organic community that is the German people. "
These words are entirely in line with the national-socialist way of thinking and could just as well have been spoken by Hitler or any other national-socialist official. This indicates that either Asperger was a national-socialist himself or that he had a more than superficial understanding of it.
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Seems to say that Asperger himself sought to protect the children that had the diagnosis from those who would think they were inferior and should be euthanised.
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Seems to say that Asperger himself sought to protect the children that had the diagnosis from those who would think they were inferior and should be euthanised.
There is nothing in his words implying so.... quite the contrary.
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i can't understand why people are still dignifying this pillock's wibblings by responding to them seriously..
::)
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i can't understand why people are still dignifying this pillock's wibblings by responding to them seriously..
::)
I can't understand why people keep spamming a topic with insults, while they have no arguments either way to contribute.
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The words for euthanasia and inferiority in German are in the same paragraph lol. Aspergers was a protector of the children, that is what I read. It takes me forever, as I took German 11 years ago lol.
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Seems to say that Asperger himself sought to protect the children that had the diagnosis from those who would think they were inferior and should be euthanised.
Thank you very much for reading through all of that, Alex. That is how I read it as well.
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What was that quote from Monty Python? Oh yes, 'stupid fat Belgian bastard'. I think Cleese was referring to you, Delusionist. I mean, he could hardly be talking about Poirot, geven Poirot has charm and brains, as well as the ability to detect bullshit. You have neither.
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What was that quote from Monty Python? Oh yes, 'stupid fat Belgian bastard'. I think Cleese was referring to you, Delusionist. I mean, he could hardly be talking about Poirot, geven Poirot has charm and brains, as well as the ability to detect bullshit. You have neither.
perhaps he meant Plastic Bertrand, although he wasn't fat. might be now, though.
/giggles madly.
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The way I see it, Asperger just wanted to make sure these people were trained to lead a "normal" life : a happy life as working men and women with a family.... rather than wasting their time in institutions or ending up in criminal environments... and the arguments he used for this were precisely the arguments a convinced national-socialist would use.
Seems to say that Asperger himself sought to protect the children that had the diagnosis from those who would think they were inferior and should be euthanised.
Thank you very much for reading through all of that, Alex. That is how I read it as well.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branched that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
Nazi Germany is gone, so what's changed? :P
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branched that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
Nazi Germany is gone, so what's changed? :P
the haircuts.
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The way I see it, Asperger just wanted to make sure these people were trained to lead a "normal" life : a happy life as working men and women with a family.... rather than wasting their time in institutions or ending up in criminal environments... and the arguments he used for this were precisely the arguments a convinced national-socialist would use.
I believe his daughter disagrees with your interpretation.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branched that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
Nazi Germany is gone, so what's changed? :P
the haircuts.
:lol:
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After WW2, most Germans who weren't killed either took distance from national-socialism because of the war or because of the "denazification" enforced on them by the occupying allies. Ever since then, even convinced national-socialists rarely speak out as national-socialists because their risk social suicide. Hence, we can't judge whether a person truely was a national-socialist or not based on statements made after the war in an atmosphere where national-socialists are censored and marginalised by all means. Even Albert Speer (hardly a bystander) explicitly took distance from Hitler to get the lightest possible sentence.
The way I see it, Asperger just wanted to make sure these people were trained to lead a "normal" life : a happy life as working men and women with a family.... rather than wasting their time in institutions or ending up in criminal environments... and the arguments he used for this were precisely the arguments a convinced national-socialist would use.
I believe his daughter disagrees with your interpretation.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branch that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
Nazi Germany is gone, so what's changed? :P
Not much. Disabled people can get money from the government, instead of being killed off. I guess that is it.
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After WW2, most Germans who weren't killed either took distance from national-socialism because of the war or because of the "denazification" enforced on them by the occupying allies. Ever since then, even convinced national-socialists rarely speak out as national-socialists because their risk social suicide. Hence, we can't judge whether a person truely was a national-socialist or not based on statements made after the war in an atmosphere where national-socialists are censored and marginalised by all means. Even Albert Speer (hardly a bystander) explicitly took distance from Hitler to get the lightest possible sentence.
In other words, they are all lying unless they agree with your views.
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In other words, the only way to find out whether someone was a national-socialist during the war is to analyse their activities, statements or publications from during the war... and even that doesn't prove anything, since some may have posed as national-socialists.
Again, you distort my words.
After WW2, most Germans who weren't killed either took distance from national-socialism because of the war or because of the "denazification" enforced on them by the occupying allies. Ever since then, even convinced national-socialists rarely speak out as national-socialists because their risk social suicide. Hence, we can't judge whether a person truely was a national-socialist or not based on statements made after the war in an atmosphere where national-socialists are censored and marginalised by all means. Even Albert Speer (hardly a bystander) explicitly took distance from Hitler to get the lightest possible sentence.
In other words, they are all lying unless they agree with your views.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery. I would think they were seen as a leech upon the rest of society, worthless. Basically a dead and worthless branch that needed to be pruned. That is how I think the Nazis viewed the disabled, or most likely how they did.
Nazi Germany is gone, so what's changed? :P
Not much. Disabled people can get money from the government, instead of being killed off. I guess that is it.
I can!
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In other words, the only way to find out whether someone was a national-socialist during the war is to analyse their activities, statements or publications from during the war... and even that doesn't prove anything, since some may have posed as national-socialists.
Again, you distort my words.
Dodging the issues much? :hahaha:
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In other words, the only way to find out whether someone was a national-socialist during the war is to analyse their activities, statements or publications from during the war... and even that doesn't prove anything, since some may have posed as national-socialists.
Again, you distort my words.
Dodging the issues much? :hahaha:
How about Kurt Josef Waldheim or the pope who was in the Nazi youth they were truly dedicated huh
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Delusionist still wants to rabbit on with this bullshit, even though Callway and others have laughed off his arguments as fabricated hyperbole and propaganida. Point of fact, Delusionist - if it walks like a nazi, and quacks like a nazi, then it is obviously a nazi. And as for nazi quacks, take note of my avvie, becuase this little black duck don't take kindly to that shit.
So Delusionist, cut the 'porkies' and quit 'foghorning' your shit at everyone.
The-the-the-the-that's all, folks.
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i think we need some foghorn leghorn input here, don't you?
:evillaugh:
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
yay! although i was thinking more along the lines of:
"if that boy don't stop talkin' soon enough, he'll get his tongue sunburned."
:laugh:
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
yay! although i was thinking more along the lines of:
"if that boy don't stop talkin' soon enough, he'll get his tongue sunburned."
:laugh:
Don't encourage him. :thumbdn:
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
yay! although i was thinking more along the lines of:
"if that boy don't stop talkin' soon enough, he'll get his tongue sunburned."
:laugh:
Don't encourage him. :thumbdn:
huh? i suggested foghorn leghorn, dur.
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
yay! although i was thinking more along the lines of:
"if that boy don't stop talkin' soon enough, he'll get his tongue sunburned."
:laugh:
Don't encourage him. :thumbdn:
huh? i suggested foghorn leghorn, dur.
Maybe Vodzy is a fan of the chicken hawk.
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Ah say, boy, I thank she's raaght!
Mah corn hurts, I thank it's about to rain......
yay! although i was thinking more along the lines of:
"if that boy don't stop talkin' soon enough, he'll get his tongue sunburned."
:laugh:
Don't encourage him. :thumbdn:
huh? i suggested foghorn leghorn, dur.
Maybe Vodzy is a fan of the chicken hawk.
Son, AH SAY SON, come ovah heah!
Nice boy, but he don't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
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Boy, git here and lemme learn you how to hunt chickens, thar be one in that bush over yonder. You just sneak up on em, and hit em with this here stick.
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Ah alsways shut up when ah'm told to shut up, ah never keep talking when ah'm told to shut up. One time ah was out frezzin' mah tailfeathers off, never said a single word. Damn near froze to death. Wouldn't even say a thing......
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Gangster: Shut up.
Bugs: OK, pal, I'll shut up, you don't have to tell me twice to shut up when someone tells me to shut up, I shut up!
Gangster (sticks gun in Bugs' face--1st mistake): Shut up shuttin' up.
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I tawt I taw a putty tat....
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That Earth creature has taken my Pu-38 explosive space modulator! That makes me very angry! Very angry indeed!
-
Jessica Rabbit: You don't know how hard it is being a woman looking the way I do.
Eddie Valiant: You don't know how hard it is being a man looking at a woman looking the way you do.
Jessica Rabbit: I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way
Jessica Rabbit: Oh, no. Where's Roger?
Eddie Valiant: Roger?. He chickened out on me back at the studio.
Jessica Rabbit: No he didn't. I hit him in the head with a frying pan and put him in the trunk... so he wouldn't get hurt.
Eddie Valiant: Makes perfect sense.
Very silly film.
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But a good one.
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(http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/7/d/67d4b9ce552fffdadf0f2f3db4965fb1.gif)
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Ah yes, Delusionist showing his true colours.
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(http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/7/d/67d4b9ce552fffdadf0f2f3db4965fb1.gif)
Silly Nazi! Tricks are for Toons! :LMAO:
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If you read between the lines, it's actually me pwning Delusionist as well.
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In terms of the OP's opening question imo it's a moot point anyhow. People were would later have probably been diagnosed as being autistic would invariably have sometimes been, beyond reasonable doubt, already 'put into' the T -4 programme by then. The Nazis already answered the question essentially.
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In terms of the OP's opening question imo it's a moot point anyhow. People were would later have probably been diagnosed as being autistic would invariably have sometimes been, beyond reasonable doubt, already 'put into' the T -4 programme by then. The Nazis already answered the question essentially.
You sound like you know a lot about this.
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In terms of the OP's opening question imo it's a moot point anyhow. People were would later have probably been diagnosed as being autistic would invariably have sometimes been, beyond reasonable doubt, already 'put into' the T -4 programme by then. The Nazis already answered the question essentially.
You sound like you know a lot about this.
There's not nearly emough in that one line from which to make such a deduction. It just seems like an obvious point.
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They killed intellectually disabled but not everyone "different". Many high Nazis actually had Aspie traits themselves.
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They killed intellectually disabled but not everyone "different". Many high Nazis actually had Aspie traits themselves.
Many high Nazi's actually had Jewish traits themselves - they still had a bad rap generally in the 'reich.' By saying 'sometimes' I was paying cursory to the 'functionability scale.' They would have only killed those who were 'too different' was my meaning and that invariably, this would have meant an unknown number of people who, had they survived, might later have gone on to be diagnosed in the AS.
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They would be a liability and something to be cleaned out of the gene pool probably in the eyes of the Nazis. If a person isn't useful (serving the ultimate purpose), there is no reason to not put them out of their misery.
Let me quote Asperger again :
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
Obviously, Hans Asperger is arguing as passionately as he possibly can that the lives of his "autistic psychopaths" should be spared by the Nazis.
This quote you reference is a translation by Uta Frith of what Hans Asperger wrote in his paper on Asperger syndrome, however, Frith comments on this passage as follows:
"The historical background to this passionate defence of the social value of autism was the very real threat of Nazi terror which extended to killing mentally handicapped and socially deviant people."
That famous quote could have put Dr Asperger's ass in a bind. Whatever faults he had he was a fucking saint :thumbup: who sought to protect the children. Any other reading of it seems like disingenuous shit to me.
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:angel:
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The nazis would have killed Chris Chan
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I had forgotten about this particular Belgian member.
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Yeah aspies would have been killed by nazis
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Yeah aspies would have been killed by nazis
Probably just the whiny ones who told everyone he/she was superior. The Planky ones.
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Maybe Jewish aspies. :orly:
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Hans Asperger diagnosed boys.....
I might have been chosen for breeding material. Quiet, sometimes almost meek woman, not too dumb, and, the right looks. :lutra:
Scary thought.
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What about other Spectrum disorders?
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It's too bad they didn't :trollface:
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many nazis were aspies
heres the thing
dont TELL them your aspie. when the gestapo wants to know if you are simply a very bright, intelligent, valuable-to-the-warmachine mastermind, dont go "oh, no, thats just a symptom of my RAMPANT AUTIST BRAIN ERROR =0 'TIS MY PRIDE"
autism is one of the "sneakyest" malfunctions in people, cus if you're lucky, its not a malfunction at all - youll be a highly coveted researcher or a military strategist or something valuable.
if you're unlucky, your just a socially quirky douche who gets completely inapropriate meltdowns. and obviously, nazis would gas that.
-
many nazis were aspies
heres the thing
dont TELL them your aspie. when the gestapo wants to know if you are simply a very bright, intelligent, valuable-to-the-warmachine mastermind, dont go "oh, no, thats just a symptom of my RAMPANT AUTIST BRAIN ERROR =0 'TIS MY PRIDE"
autism is one of the "sneakyest" malfunctions in people, cus if you're lucky, its not a malfunction at all - youll be a highly coveted researcher or a military strategist or something valuable.
if you're unlucky, your just a socially quirky douche who gets completely inapropriate meltdowns. and obviously, nazis would gas that.
Yup, that's why I would end up as breeding material.
:lutra:
:bounce:
:cfm:
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I would be gasable.
-
many nazis were aspies
heres the thing
dont TELL them your aspie. when the gestapo wants to know if you are simply a very bright, intelligent, valuable-to-the-warmachine mastermind, dont go "oh, no, thats just a symptom of my RAMPANT AUTIST BRAIN ERROR =0 'TIS MY PRIDE"
autism is one of the "sneakyest" malfunctions in people, cus if you're lucky, its not a malfunction at all - youll be a highly coveted researcher or a military strategist or something valuable.
if you're unlucky, your just a socially quirky douche who gets completely inapropriate meltdowns. and obviously, nazis would gas that.
Yup, that's why I would end up as breeding material.
:lutra:
:bounce:
:cfm:
I probably would have ended up the same way.
-
I would of hid in a land called OZ......
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They would have bred us for our "master intellect". :autism:
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They would have bred us for our "master intellect". :autism:
^This
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Could have made an intellectual branching out of this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn)
When the war went on, the Germans were that desperate for new 'Aryan' kids, that they encouraged SS-officers to have as many affairs with Norwegian girls as possible, and, they started robbing Aryan looking kids from Slavic countries.
The standards for 'perfectly Aryan' were getting 'lower' and 'lower'. Quite a few of us would have made it I guess. Even more, because some of the girls on the spectrum are more easy to seduce.
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How is it that mdagli1 missed this thread. :dunno:
It's his wet dream cum true! :redneck:
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I don't think he brings back old threads.
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many nazis were aspies
heres the thing
dont TELL them your aspie. when the gestapo wants to know if you are simply a very bright, intelligent, valuable-to-the-warmachine mastermind, dont go "oh, no, thats just a symptom of my RAMPANT AUTIST BRAIN ERROR =0 'TIS MY PRIDE"
autism is one of the "sneakyest" malfunctions in people, cus if you're lucky, its not a malfunction at all - youll be a highly coveted researcher or a military strategist or something valuable.
if you're unlucky, your just a socially quirky douche who gets completely inapropriate meltdowns. and obviously, nazis would gas that.
Yup, that's why I would end up as breeding material.
:lutra:
:bounce:
:cfm:
-
Could have made an intellectual branching out of this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn)
When the war went on, the Germans were that desperate for new 'Aryan' kids, that they encouraged SS-officers to have as many affairs with Norwegian girls as possible, and, they started robbing Aryan looking kids from Slavic countries.
The standards for 'perfectly Aryan' were getting 'lower' and 'lower'. Quite a few of us would have made it I guess. Even more, because some of the girls on the spectrum are more easy to seduce.
That’s so true. I know of biracial blue eyed blonde white looking twins who were very pretty. Their black mother had white features. Their father was a blue eyed blonde. Nazis pedophile stalk girls like them.
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More easy to seduce, hyke? thats a bit....well not the most complimentary thing I've ever heard you say about aspie/autie girls.
A veiled way of saying 'a bunch of whores'. Charming. I can't say as I find it to be the case either. There is often a lot of shyness, and IMO it takes a lot more effort to court an autie (or aspie) girl than it does for an NT. We are far more likely to have standards.
I've a lot of respect for you Hyke, but that particular pronouncement strikes me as a steaming pile of shite.
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I said "some" Lestat.
And yes "some" autie persons are easily being made use of. Pretty sure my ex SIL qualifies as "LFA" she got raped twice at least. There's two kids because of that. A woman I worked with kept constant control over all social media of one of her autistic daughters. Only one of them. Because the child missed all clues of what was safe and what not. And that was because of how autism panned out in her. More than once police freed her out of a meeting with a groomer.
Not saying my ex MIL or that girl were whores. Not at all. They miss all the clues to know when they are being taken advantage of or not. And there are people who know how to single out people who are easy to take advantage of.
Autism can be one of the risk factors for girls to end up in the hands of "loverboys". Doesn't make them whores. The loverboys will turn them into whores though, the kind of whores that get nothing out of the sexdeals he makes for them.
And on the other side, there will be autiekids with an extra antenna for abuse. They will get into something like this less likely than their non spectrum peers.
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And no, it's not the most complimentary I've ever said about people with autism. But don't think it's a pile of steaming shite. Would be nice if it was. But that is not how the world works.
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Nothing wrong with a sexworker, autistic or not, who truly choose that job either by the way.
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Didn't mean 'whore' in the 'fucks for money sense' 'slut' would be closer to the intended meaning, and I see what you mean, more easily manipulated due to the lessened ability to read NTs?
And damn, thats awful about your SIL :( I fucking hate 'people' like that.
What do you mean by 'loverboy'? I think something might have gotten scrambled in translation there, pimps?
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Oh, see that somehow it said SIL once in my post. It's my ex MIL. Yeah, poor girl, back then. Also sad for her kids. She wasn't fit to raise them. Nearly got her oldest killed when he was baby.
"Loverboy" in Dutch is used for men who prey on social and emotional weaker girls. Gaining their trust, overloading them with attention and often with drugs too. They isolate the girl from her environment, make her totally dependent on them and then pimp them out. Or use those girls as bait, to lure other vulnerable girls into their network. Or for courier work, in drugs and weapon market.
Have not heard about boys being caught that way yet. But would not surprise me if that also happens. That vulnerable boys are used by criminal organisations is happening. Some of them probably will end up in this very obscure side of the sex industry too.
Some of those networks are huge and international.
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Here 'loverboy' means something quite different. Either a joking reference to someone being batshit crazy about someone, or taking the piss out of (male) homos.
And what you describe...that is some fucked up shit. I don't deny that my 'type' is 'spesh as hell', but if I'm with someone, be they aspie or LFA, it's because both she and I WANT to be together, and quite honestly, if someone were to take advantage of a LFA/MR partner of mine, if that was who I was with (currently I'm single), I wouldn't hesitate to let loose with the very worst in me, I look out for anyone I'm with, no matter their abilities or mentality, but if someone is especially vulnerable, then that goes tenfold.
Spesh as hell just happens to be...guess you could look at it as being more attracted to my own kind.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnHm4ro_l8s
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Not funny, dickhead.
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I said "some" Lestat.
And yes "some" autie persons are easily being made use of. Pretty sure my ex SIL qualifies as "LFA" she got raped twice at least. There's two kids because of that. A woman I worked with kept constant control over all social media of one of her autistic daughters. Only one of them. Because the child missed all clues of what was safe and what not. And that was because of how autism panned out in her. More than once police freed her out of a meeting with a groomer.
Not saying my ex MIL or that girl were whores. Not at all. They miss all the clues to know when they are being taken advantage of or not. And there are people who know how to single out people who are easy to take advantage of.
Autism can be one of the risk factors for girls to end up in the hands of "loverboys". Doesn't make them whores. The loverboys will turn them into whores though, the kind of whores that get nothing out of the sexdeals he makes for them.
And on the other side, there will be autiekids with an extra antenna for abuse. They will get into something like this less likely than their non spectrum peers.
Just tell us you love us and have a good spiel and we’re good to go!
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Oh, see that somehow it said SIL once in my post. It's my ex MIL. Yeah, poor girl, back then. Also sad for her kids. She wasn't fit to raise them. Nearly got her oldest killed when he was baby.
"Loverboy" in Dutch is used for men who prey on social and emotional weaker girls. Gaining their trust, overloading them with attention and often with drugs too. They isolate the girl from her environment, make her totally dependent on them and then pimp them out. Or use those girls as bait, to lure other vulnerable girls into their network. Or for courier work, in drugs and weapon market.
Have not heard about boys being caught that way yet. But would not surprise me if that also happens. That vulnerable boys are used by criminal organisations is happening. Some of them probably will end up in this very obscure side of the sex industry too.
Some of those networks are huge and international.
Yep. Women on the spectrum are often exploited.
My mother was never in any relationship that I know of that wasn't with an evil, manipulative, toxic dickhead. And as an adult she was barely recognisably on the spectrum, probably wouldn't have qualified for a diagnosis at all except in very early childhood (speech delays, and then when she did speak she started speaking like an adult in full sentences). And my mother was stunning in her younger days.
Never got trafficked or anything like that though.
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Oh, see that somehow it said SIL once in my post. It's my ex MIL. Yeah, poor girl, back then. Also sad for her kids. She wasn't fit to raise them. Nearly got her oldest killed when he was baby.
"Loverboy" in Dutch is used for men who prey on social and emotional weaker girls. Gaining their trust, overloading them with attention and often with drugs too. They isolate the girl from her environment, make her totally dependent on them and then pimp them out. Or use those girls as bait, to lure other vulnerable girls into their network. Or for courier work, in drugs and weapon market.
Have not heard about boys being caught that way yet. But would not surprise me if that also happens. That vulnerable boys are used by criminal organisations is happening. Some of them probably will end up in this very obscure side of the sex industry too.
Some of those networks are huge and international.
Yep. Women on the spectrum are often exploited.
My mother was never in any relationship that I know of that wasn't with an evil, manipulative, toxic dickhead. And as an adult she was barely recognisably on the spectrum, probably wouldn't have qualified for a diagnosis at all except in very early childhood (speech delays, and then when she did speak she started speaking like an adult in full sentences). And my mother was stunning in her younger days.
Never got trafficked or anything like that though.
Genuinely sorry to hear it.
She still alive? Are you close?
Me? Mine is not around and I was never particularly close and I am not sure she was on the spectrum though I suspect my Father was.
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Years ago, I read an aspie's description of "our kind" as being "hopelessly naive, yet canny."
I'm sure many of us are no longer naive in any way, but I saw myself in that description. :tard:
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Cancer got mine too. She was 60 I think. Cancer is fucking terrible. One of the things I hated about my ex is constant exposure to my daughter made my daughter lose her innocence. My daughter became too hard and icy too quickly.
My ex ran into a workmate of my mother 15 years ago and she happened to realise the relationship and mentioned that my Mother was the meanest woman she ever knew and how she hated me specifically. I was an odd kid but not something to hate I would not think. But it was a testimonial that was at least shared by me.
I will let you know something. I called you a Goofy Motherfucker. I think it akin to calling you a Goofy idiot or a Goofy fuckwit.
You got really upset and tried to make some really stupid case that it was actually some literal equation to you having relations with you mum. I thought it was stupid. I STILL think it is stupid BUT as a token of solidarity and goodwill for the upcoming year, I will retire that Goofy nickname.
I will even apologise to you for any actual upset you genuinely felt in relation to your Mum. She actually sounds like the best of women.
That said I STILL think you are an idiot almost on a par with that dropkick Odeon and competing hard with Icequeen. You will likely get another different nickname down the track.
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Years ago, I read an aspie's description of "our kind" as being "hopelessly naive, yet canny."
I'm sure many of us are no longer naive in any way, but I saw myself in that description. :tard:
I learned quickly to pick up bullshit and when someone was either emotionally manipulating or lying. That was my Mother. My Father I competed with. We were like to alphas in the same pack. It was not good and I blame my Mum and Dad for that. I think in a funny way that both of these two things prepared me for life and spared me a lot of trauma. I do not know whethr this made me canny but maybe in a sense.
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Years ago, I read an aspie's description of "our kind" as being "hopelessly naive, yet canny."
I'm sure many of us are no longer naive in any way, but I saw myself in that description. :tard:
I learned quickly to pick up bullshit and when someone was either emotionally manipulating or lying. That was my Mother. My Father I competed with. We were like to alphas in the same pack. It was not good and I blame my Mum and Dad for that. I think in a funny way that both of these two things prepared me for life and spared me a lot of trauma. I do not know whethr this made me canny but maybe in a sense.
I am getting wiser to people all the time, but it takes a long damn time to figure some people out.
Some people I really liked initially have turned out to be false in ways I could not see till I'd known them
for years. But then, looking back, I usually remember warning signs that I should have heeded. :apondering:
(Not talking about anyone here, by the way. I mean RL people. Some of them are tricky.) :tinfoil:
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Cancer got mine too. She was 60 I think. Cancer is fucking terrible. One of the things I hated about my ex is constant exposure to my daughter made my daughter lose her innocence. My daughter became too hard and icy too quickly.
My ex ran into a workmate of my mother 15 years ago and she happened to realise the relationship and mentioned that my Mother was the meanest woman she ever knew and how she hated me specifically. I was an odd kid but not something to hate I would not think. But it was a testimonial that was at least shared by me.
I will let you know something. I called you a Goofy Motherfucker. I think it akin to calling you a Goofy idiot or a Goofy fuckwit.
You got really upset and tried to make some really stupid case that it was actually some literal equation to you having relations with you mum. I thought it was stupid. I STILL think it is stupid BUT as a token of solidarity and goodwill for the upcoming year, I will retire that Goofy nickname.
I will even apologise to you for any actual upset you genuinely felt in relation to your Mum. She actually sounds like the best of women.
That said I STILL think you are an idiot almost on a par with that dropkick Odeon and competing hard with Icequeen. You will likely get another different nickname down the track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58T0NlhNweA
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My mother passed away when she wasn't much older than I am now. Bloody cancer. We were very close. I still miss her a lot.
Her only fault was her inability to recognise evil in others. An excess of innocence. A trait that skipped a generation and now my son has it.
Cancer got mine too. She was 60 I think. Cancer is fucking terrible. One of the things I hated about my ex is constant exposure to my daughter made my daughter lose her innocence. My daughter became too hard and icy too quickly.
My ex ran into a workmate of my mother 15 years ago and she happened to realise the relationship and mentioned that my Mother was the meanest woman she ever knew and how she hated me specifically. I was an odd kid but not something to hate I would not think. But it was a testimonial that was at least shared by me.
I will let you know something. I called you a Goofy Motherfucker. I think it akin to calling you a Goofy idiot or a Goofy fuckwit.
You got really upset and tried to make some really stupid case that it was actually some literal equation to you having relations with you mum. I thought it was stupid. I STILL think it is stupid BUT as a token of solidarity and goodwill for the upcoming year, I will retire that Goofy nickname.
I will even apologise to you for any actual upset you genuinely felt in relation to your Mum. She actually sounds like the best of women.
That said I STILL think you are an idiot almost on a par with that dropkick Odeon and competing hard with Icequeen. You will likely get another different nickname down the track.
Al, you regularly remind me that I'm a spazz, and this drives the point home.
I thought that my confected outrage at your use of the word "motherfucker" would be obvious. I was trying to mock your level of confected outrage. It obviously wasn't obvious at all. I am clueless.
And so the sentiment is genuinely appreciated. And please feel free to use the word "motherfucker" in relation to me, and I won't respond by suggesting that you might be from Tasmania or anything crass like that. Please don't hold back, it's no fun here if we are going to be respectful and nice to each other.
I'm quite happy that you consider me an idiot. Considering the people that you think are intelligent... it's perhaps the highest praise I could hope for.
Funny how the memories come back sometimes. Her funeral was 26 years ago. She wanted it to be a happy affair, she didn't want people to be sad. She lived interstate and I had flown up when I heard she was in a bad way and didn't look like recovering, it was a bloody awful last month and she was ready to go a long time before she finally did, and she joked that she wished she were a dog so they could give her a nice big needle and get it over with.
The church was full of people, most of whom I didn't know. My mother had asked one of her very close friends, who had won a karaoke competition and whom she loved hearing sing, at the end of the ceremony to sing the song he had won the karaoke competition with. He got up there and he tried but he kept breaking down and crying. And that set everybody off, people all over the church were sobbing and when we walked outside I saw all these people I didn't even know, with red puffy eyes and still wiping tears away.
Contrast that to my father's funeral the next year. There was just a small group of us at the chapel. The pastor got up the front and looked kind of embarrassed, he had obviously asked a few people (not including myself) about what sort of man he was. He got to the part where he was supposed to say a few nice things and he kind of stumbled over his words and said something like "Well, ah, **** wasn't a good man, he had an unhappy life, he destroyed all the relationships that should have been important to him and drove people away from him. I hope that in death he finds some peace and happiness in the next life". And I was shocked, not because it wasn't true, but because I'd never even heard of a priest or pastor saying something like that at a funeral.
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Yes. As would the Soviets. A lot of it is that we're different.
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Which is why it always astonishes me when spazzes vote for the populist parties on the rise in Europe and elsewhere.
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Which is why it always astonishes me when spazzes vote for the populist parties on the rise in Europe and elsewhere.
It's that Spazz innocence again, I guess.
Here in the the UK, they're only coming for the people who pretend to be spazzes (or otherwise disabled) so as to sponge off the State. They're not coming for the real spazzes. That only happens by accident.
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The most serious threat to sexual minorities in the Brexit Party comes in the form of a lone socially conservative woman in her seventies. She's really there to educate the young to say "this is how things were".
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As I pointed out in another thread, mankind basically forgets in a generation and a half or so.
In my ever-so humble opinion, they should have been stricter about banning fascists and neo-nazis all over Europe, not just in Germany.
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They couldn't ban the NPD, you idiot.
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They could have but the court chose not to because the morons in it would have formed something else instead. IMHO, they should have banned NPD and then the next one, and the next one, and the next one...
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People saw through the NPD. Basically, they said that if they're for real... That's why they lost their seat. The BNP didn't impress either. In properly democratic countries people don't vote for Nazis and Commies in large numbers.
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They should still have banned them.
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They should still have banned them.
Die Linke were against it you fool. If they're not violent they should be able to stand.
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Check again.
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Yes. As would the Soviets. A lot of it is that we're different.
Th e Soviet regime was often horrendous. Stalin was, in some ways, worse than Hitler. But I am unaware of any policy of exterminating the disabled.
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Yes. As would the Soviets. A lot of it is that we're different.
Th e Soviet regime was often horrendous. Stalin was, in some ways, worse than Hitler. But I am unaware of any policy of exterminating the disabled.
They weren't murdered, but they were very much looked down on and ill treated. They exiled the vets to remote houses that no-one would know about.
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Yes. As would the Soviets. A lot of it is that we're different.
Th e Soviet regime was often horrendous. Stalin was, in some ways, worse than Hitler. But I am unaware of any policy of exterminating the disabled.
They weren't murdered, but they were very much looked down on and ill treated. They exiled the vets to remote houses that no-one would know about.
Ah, so a lot like how conservatives view the disabled today.
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Yes. As would the Soviets. A lot of it is that we're different.
Th e Soviet regime was often horrendous. Stalin was, in some ways, worse than Hitler. But I am unaware of any policy of exterminating the disabled.
They weren't murdered, but they were very much looked down on and ill treated. They exiled the vets to remote houses that no-one would know about.
Ah, so a lot like how conservatives view the disabled today.
They wouldn't want them exiled to South Georgia for fuck's sake. They're me. I'm a conservative.
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Why do the extremists always insist that the other extreme has no merit? :-\
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Why do the extremists always insist that the other extreme has no merit? :-\
I'm not an extremist. It's politics.
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Why do the extremists always insist that the other extreme has no merit? :-\
I'm not an extremist. It's politics.
Right.