INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: McGiver on April 14, 2013, 12:47:32 PM
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The world is 50 trillion dollars in debt.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock (http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock)
But to whom are we indebted to? I mean its all just made up currency which is backed by our belief that it is valuable.
Since the worldwide financial crisis of 2008 governments have been experimenting with austerity measures, which basically hurt the poor and redistributes wealth to the very rich.
Austerity, IMHO, is nothing more than a wealth grab by the rich meant to enslave the masses in democratic countries.
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The world is 50 trillion dollars in debt.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock (http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock)
But to whom are we indebted to? I mean its all just made up currency which is backed by our belief that it is valuable.
Since the worldwide financial crisis of 2008 governments have been experimenting with austerity measures, which basically hurt the poor and redistributes wealth to the very rich.
Austerity, IMHO, is nothing more than a wealth grab by the rich meant to enslave the masses in democratic countries.
Debt is more valuable than money
Without debt there would be no need for money
All that would be needed is gold, silver, salt or any other valuable commodity, for trade, if there was no debt.
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Are you suggesting debt by design? Who's interests would that serve?
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Are you suggesting debt by design? Who's interests would that serve?
Thats it exactly
That would be the worlds major banks
Starting with the Bank of England, hundreds of years ago.
Its a plan thats working well.
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I'm not sure of these facts, exactly, but I read somewhere last year that a decade ago there were but a handful of countries that did not have a central (privately owned) bank.
Syria and Iraq were two of them, but American involvement changed that.
Now it is N Korea, Iran and one South American country....if my memory serves me well.
Can you hear the faint drumbeat of war?
And I wonder if the South American country was the one led by Hugo Chavez. Who recently died.
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I don't really understand the massive mutual debt of countries either and I don't keep debt in my personal life.
I can see from a startup company perspective there are times when it's to everyone's benefit that you borrow money, in order to increase the speed of growth. For example if your product goes viral and suddenly there's a much greater demand for it than you can supply with your current equipment.
So I guess that would be to monetize a factor (the spread of information) that was outside of everybody's control.
But the majority of borrowing doesn't fit that model. It's either on the intangible promise of growth, which is often made on false assumptions and never comes true, or it's to compensate for an unexpected disaster. Or I guess, like in the case of the USA government lately, it's out of fear.
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Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.
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Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.
:indeed:
We need to replace fiat currency with money that has REAL value, like silver certificates or something like that.
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Then government debt means nothing?
Then why in democratic countries do the poor vote for politicians who impose austerity measures on them under the lie that the deficit is bad. Austerity is usually targeted against the needy.
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People don't always act in their own best interests. They trust well-spoken promises from dishonest people.
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Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.
:indeed:
We need to replace fiat currency with money that has REAL value, like silver certificates or something like that.
i suggest a cooperative where governments are voted out by the populous when they no longer represent the wishes of the majority. And where labor fires the middle man (Walmart for example) and works directly with the manufacturer and the consumer.
Why do we need money?
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Cause it's more convenient than chickens.
A cooperative might work on a small scale, but theoretically it's what democracies have right now, a system where governmental representatives are voted out when they no longer represent the majority. The trouble, as I remember someone else here saying recently, is that you have to be a sleaze before you can rise far enough to even be noticed by the majority.
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Walmart = Satan's Five and Dime.
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It's kind of interesting how the media has gotten the whole damn country freaked out about the national debt above all the other issues we were primarily worried about before. The debt was there before. Yet, your average joe on the street was more worried about the economy.
Kinda like how the gun control debt wandered into the forefront of everything. Would never have happened if the media didn't pimp Sandy Hook (and I use the term "pimp" on purpose, as I think the way these things get covered makes more of them happen, which is kind of disgusting).
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The Bolsheviks in the media try to make people focus on everything but the things that are in the public interest :thumbdn:
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Isn't the debt inextricably linked to the economy?
(in ways I understand very little about)
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Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.
:indeed:
We need to replace fiat currency with money that has REAL value, like silver certificates or something like that.
Money came about partly to represent something that was too heavy to carry around. The value of silver is just as imaginary, if you think about it.
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A just society will meet the needs of the least of its citizens....food, clothing and shelter.
Barter with paper all else.
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A just society will meet the needs of the least of its citizens....food, clothing and shelter.
Barter with paper all else.
Sweden has done that for many years.
From the Instrument of Government:
"Article 2.
Public power shall be exercised with respect for the equal worth of all and the liberty and dignity of the individual. The personal, economic and cultural wellfare of the individual shall be fundamental aims of public activity. In particular, the public institutions shall secure the right to employment, housing and education, and shall promote social care and social security, as well as favourable conditions for good health.
---"
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Simplify the shit.
Lets turn all this shit into two cavemen. One caveman gets lucky (Caveman A) and digs up a few more roots than the other one. The other one is unlucky (Caveman B) and doesn't really have enough to eat.
Caveman A says UNGH UNGH and gives Caveman B a few of his roots. They chow down, but now caveman B is indebted to caveman A. Caveman A goes on to to this to everyone, because he's just a lucky bitch like that. Fast forward about 20 years. Caveman B makes knife out of flint. Its really useful. All of the sudden caveman A walks up and takes the shit, because everyone is indebted to him. Nobody argues. Now caveman A is owed a bunch of favors, and has a powerful tool. Fastforward five years. Caveman A is fucking alpha. He pretty much owns everything, and all the other cavemen are pretty much only "allowed" to use their own inventions and eat their own food cause he's such a super guy.
Geddit?
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Gfy, mitt. Those entitled fuckers need to recognize.
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Isn't the debt inextricably linked to the economy?
(in ways I understand very little about)
Exactly the issue- your average layperson in America doesn't know exactly how debt vs. the economy works, but if the media connects them enough, assumes they are connected.
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Do you think they're not connected?
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"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world" Archimedes
Like everything financial, there is often great and simple way to effect desired results but not adhering or being able to adhere to "the plan" throws this under a bus.
Leveraging debt is a great way of building wealth and we see this with savvy investors
Investor A saves for a year and saves up $10000 that he wisely invests in great performing stocks over the course of two years they raise 30%
Investor B copies him but at the start of year two takes out a personal loan of $10000 and invest that in the shares too.
Investor A
$10000 x 130% = $13000 worth in year one
$13000 x 130% (+ $10000 saved over that year) = $26900 end of year two
Investor B
$10000 x 130% = $13000 worth in year one
$10000 of loan proceeds + $13000 = $23000 x 130% = $29900
Hangon what about $10000 debt? Well Investor two was saving paying $232.68/month for 14% interest rate on his $10000 five year personal loan. So whilst he was not able to put $10000 into the shares at the end of the month like investor A. He could put in ($10000 - [$232.68/month x 12 months] = $7207.84)
So yeah Investor A is carrying no debt and Investor B is, but investor B is able to easily service it and is building wealth .
Investor A after 2 years - $26900
Investor B after to years- $29900 + $7207.84 = $37107.84
If they invest the same then over the next 5 years Investor b will have no debt and higher wealth than Investor A who did not take on debt. Without leveraging debt, people cut out a primary way to wealth. Done badly or if bad luck strikes Investor B's downside is greater.
Countries are the same on a larger scale