INTENSITY²
Start here => M.O.-Introductions => Ask Away Threads => Topic started by: Hypnotica_Gaze on June 28, 2006, 08:30:22 PM
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what are your childrens grandfathers like, do you think they will be such strong influences in their lives?
Im kinda gutted that by the time i have kids, my grandfather and grandmother will probably be gone. Because probably like your grandfather, they are the kind of people that kids should get the opportunity to grow up knowing.
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what are your childrens grandfathers like, do you think they will be such strong influences in their lives?
Im kinda gutted that by the time i have kids, my grandfather and grandmother will probably be gone. Because probably like your grandfather, they are the kind of people that kids should get the opportunity to grow up knowing.
No i doubt that the baby boomers have too much to offer anybody, IMO. most of them are full of crap, greedy and selfish.
my wife and i plan on remaining married and being positive role models (thank god for her in that phase of the plan).
i think it is crucial for parents to remain married and for them to take gut checks often. i also think that parents signed up for lifetime responsibilities and should honor that responsibilities.
back to the baby boomers, they are the beginning of de-evolution of humankind, IMO. they shirked nearly all of their responsibilities, thir greatest contributions have been entertainment based ( to raise their children for them). they are piles of waste and although i like my father alot, he fits into the same category as a non role model type.
one reason i have a problem with the womans movement is because it tells women that they need to go out into the job market. tells women that being a mother is demeaning, its all about money...
back to the baby boomers greed.
well i feel that the woman, with her natural maternal instincts and her ability to raise children better than men, is and should be the most rewarding job of all. you get to mold lives. see the next phase in humanity started off in the right direction.
i understand that women need more equality ( because of the abuses of my fathers generation), but i refuse to pay for their sins. i will honor my responsibility and do the best i can ( given that i do not have the natural instincts). i will study my wife and learn from her...
rant complete, in part.
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In what ways are men expected to pay for the previous generation's sins (about women)?
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no baby boomers = no McJ
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whew. Â a softball question.
the second i looked and saw that it was you who responded to my rant, i got worried that i left open some sort of loophole.
this one is easy:
in droves, the babyboomer men left their families, divorce skyrocketed, and the traditional family all but died.
not only that, they shirked their financial responsibilities as well. Â leaving women and children having a hard time coping. Â thus the new terminology single working mom and latch key kids.
women were not making as much as men in the workplace ( i suspect as encouragement to do the most noble of professions, raising children). Â but this wouldn't do. Â since women had to work due to the sins of my fathers generation. Â women needed to be eleveated in financial status.
thus the spawning of true feminism. Â which in my opinion has went a bit too far. Â what about children in the age that resulted in a two income family? Â i firmly believe that the feminist movement has done more harm then good (in total). Â i believe that the feminist movement has made it necessary for more likenesses in the sexes rather than an equality of the sexes. Â their are no more defined roles, and the next generations of humans are left to suffer from this.
i blame the men, make no mistake about that. Â but i truly think that my fathers generation ( and i say fathers, because i believe their actions caused this slippery slope) has done nothing to better humanity. Â as i said previously i think they have caused the de-evolution of mankind ( to be ironic).
i am not offered many options about being a man. Â the workplace has become flooded and cutthroat. Â there are not many options in the workforce, by and large. Â this is due to women having to (by necessity) enter the workforce en masse. Â uck it all we are all paying for the sins of my fathers generation. Â i refuse to take the blame for it. Â i will point the finger where it belongs, and go about my business honering my responsibilities.
the end. Â in part.
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no baby boomers = no McJ
yeah, so you had a gleam in your fucking eye. you are closer to generation X than anything. fuck them, i dont owe them a thing.
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did you create your existance out of nothing?
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Well i actually agree with a fair bit of that.
My grandfather taught me to get a good education (made sure i got one) and have goals however he also shared alot of my morals about family life.
My grandfather and grandmother were great parents.
When a women chooses to get married and have kids, i actually do believe her job is to be a wife and to nurture and look after their children. (i also think the father should help as much as he can too) Â I must admit i dont like this new age of women having children then passing them on to other people to rear for them. I think theres no point in them conceiving them if they arent gonna bring them up themselves and actually be proper mothers.
Obviously in some situations a woman feels she still has to/needs to work or still wants to work. However the minute i decide to have children that will become my main priority, responsibility and focus. If it comes to the point where i have kids but need to work (if im not as financially secure as i am now) or want to work, i would find another alternative somehow and id wait till my children were at nursery/school and i would try get a job that fit in with those hours, so i could work yet still be a mother in every sense of the word. I also believe there are too many ambitious women who dont want to compromise their careers for their children. As far as im concerned when i have children, my full-time position is being their mother. Everything else will need to come secondary including my career. Being a 2nd rate mother doesnt do kids any favours.
Obviously my comments may piss alot of women off.
I apologise if they do, but its just my personal opinion.
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did you create your existance out of nothing?
what the hell does that have to do with being a gleam in your eye, and then subsequently shirking responsibilities.
that is what the baby boomers did in droves.
should i be grateful for someone cause they satisfied a hardon?
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:laugh:
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This issue as far as im concerned, needs no further replies from me.
Its all pretty self explanatory.
You got other problems, deal with them.
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(http://www.starsiege2845.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
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HG,
Obviously my comments may piss alot of women off.
I apologise if they do, but its just my personal opinion.
need i remind you about what you say when you are honest and when people have the time to consider what you have said?
their is nobilty in speaking with logic, even to the illogical. Â as a person lives their day and processes what they have heard and then make correlations with their obserations it begins to ring true for them.
at first, maybe. Â in the long run, barley. Â but you will have taught many people a truer version other than what has been force fed to them from people who are masking their own guilt. Â and the media and whatever their agenda is.
never be PC, that is my advice to anybody who will listen. Â PC takes away individual thought and responsibility.
buck the system and all you know!!!!
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(http://www.starsiege2845.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)
you  me
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>:( :P
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Indeed McJ ;D
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now its lost forever.
nobody will take the time to read such wordy posts.
baby boomer men= (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_201.gif)
in case people were wondering what the basis of conversation on the previous page was about.
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and this is going to be about whining how nobody understands what McJ is saying
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(http://www.smileyparadies.de/smilies/sexy/Sexe07.gif)
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the second i looked and saw that it was you who responded to my rant, i got worried that i left open some sort of loophole.
Oh don't worry, the softball question was just to draw you out.
i believe that the feminist movement has made it necessary for more likenesses in the sexes rather than an equality of the sexes. their are no more defined roles, and the next generations of humans are left to suffer from this.
I'm not going to argue that latchkey kids and parents ignoring their responsibility to their children are good things, cause I agree with you there. But I disagree that the woman should by nature be the one raising the kids, and the man should by nature be working. How exactly do people suffer for a lack of defined roles? Odd statement from a guy who loves so much to buck authority.
i am not offered many options about being a man. the workplace has become flooded and cutthroat. there are not many options in the workforce, by and large. this is due to women having to (by necessity) enter the workforce en masse.
Oh, waah waah, you can't slack off 'cause you might get one-upped by a woman. So you'd rather encourage them out of the workplace. Self-preservation, I suppose, but not exactly men's most honorable hour.
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the second i looked and saw that it was you who responded to my rant, i got worried that i left open some sort of loophole.
Oh don't worry, the softball question was just to draw you out.
i believe that the feminist movement has made it necessary for more likenesses in the sexes rather than an equality of the sexes. their are no more defined roles, and the next generations of humans are left to suffer from this.
I'm not going to argue that latchkey kids and parents ignoring their responsibility to their children are good things, cause I agree with you there. But I disagree that the woman should by nature be the one raising the kids, and the man should by nature be working. How exactly do people suffer for a lack of defined roles? Odd statement from a guy who loves so much to buck authority.
i am not offered many options about being a man. the workplace has become flooded and cutthroat. there are not many options in the workforce, by and large. this is due to women having to (by necessity) enter the workforce en masse. Â
Oh, waah waah, you can't slack off 'cause you might get one-upped by a woman. So you'd rather encourage them out of the workplace. Self-preservation, I suppose, but not exactly men's most honorable hour.
pt 1. i knew it and baited you in case i was wrong.
pt.2. why can't men carry babies to term, why cant men breast feed? there is nothing wrong with a man, being mr mom, i am saying that it is not natural. we (the sexes) are born wired differently, paternal instincts is not as popular as maternal instincts for a reason. we are born wired differently and society does nothing to change those perceptions.
why do women show more emotion than men ( for the most part)?
why are women more nurturing than men (for the most part), even in their relationsships with each other?
women are better at it than men are, and i reiterate, it is the most notable of all professions.
should we just toss out a few generations of children till men acquire the skills necessary to raise children as well as women. women are better than men in so many respects, whats more important tending to a life or making money? i never said that women cannot do carreers as well as men.
pt.3 i am not afraid of a woman doing anything better than me in the workplace. they can't. neither can men. i am the best at anything i endeaver, anything.
my position on this matter is that since women have entered the workplace there are fewer jobs for more people. that has done nothing but advantage corporate greed. they have used this opportunity to force people to complete against each other. and now view nearly all labor as expendable. and we are due to increased competition.
also, the lower wages and increased production means that two incomes are necessary quite often.
you already agreed that latchkey kids and irresponsible parenting is not a good thing. but you must choose between these two they are not mutually exclusive.
the competiotive workforce, makes it easy to be an irresponsible parent (two incomes to survive) children are therefore being raised in factories of daycare.
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one reason i have a problem with the womans movement is because it tells women that they need to go out into the job market. tells women that being a mother is demeaning, its all about money...
back to the baby boomers greed.
not any more they don't, although yes, they did at one point. now, it's more about recognising that the unpaid "social care" responsbilities women take on (not necessarily as an educated choice), with children, with the eldery, etc., should be recognised for what it is, and recompensed appropriately.
as for the rest of your argument re: feminism... well, i shall be reading your respnose to pyraxis' question with interest... >:D
i agree with you about the lack of defined roles, actually, in some respects, in that i believe it's much easier for people with AS to function if there are very clear and firm boundaries/guidelines/whatever regarding societal roles. of course, it can be incredibly restricting, especially if if one doesn't have the choice of which role one gets to play. for instance, if one of those roles was, say feudal lord, and the other serf - i.e., no unionised labour movement; starve/die if you don't play the game their way, etc. - would you still want them? cos that's a bit what it was like for women, until very recently.
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fucking hell, mcj - you really are showing your true colours:
my position on this matter is that since women have entered the workplace there are fewer jobs for more people.
so women are not "people", then? ::)
can you not see how all your arguments are those being disseminated and encouraged by the ones with a vested interest in keeping the status quo in place? i.e., the very people you purport to be fighting against. if you're fighting women in the workplace, you're looking in the wrong place, cos, as usual, the divide and conquer strategy is working beautifully. take a step back, and see who's actually winning, here. in your scenario, women are stealing "people's" jobs, men are resentful, everyone's terrified cos their jobs are at risk... get my drift yet? and the fat cats sit there, quite happily, knowing they can tell the unions to fuck off whenever they feel like it, cos everyone's looking in the wrong place to balme someone.
looking at issues piecemeal like this never works, cos you always end up fighting the wrong foe. the bigger picture tends to be more interesting, apart from anything else - men blaming women and women blaming men for all ills would be getting terribly boring, if the consequences weren't so horrifying.
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i agree about the roles and i have pointed out where the abuse  and responsibilities lie.
however i refuse to pay for the sins of my fathers generation. Â menshould have been more respectful of their mates. Â the idea of greed and self serving attitudes has destroyed the basic human strength: the tight clan (family or the most basic political structure).
women i feel have actually traded away most of their power for all this equality crap. Â i believe that men were the puppets throughout history, and a woman was always calling the shots, after all they influenced each generation moreso than any other.
yes the men of the previous generation blew it (mainly from self serving greed), the women blew it to (but mainly out of survival instincts). Â i, for one, as the resulting generation of male have had my right stripped from me. Â i don't even get the chance to show that the baby boomers lack of responsibility makes me want to vomit. Â show that i do not appreciate the fact that i came from yet another broken family. Â to show that i choose to be responsible in defiance of everything i have been taught otherwise.
guess what the fuck i am going to do?
i am going to buck the trend and be exactly ddifferent fromall i've been taught, all i've known.
goddammit.
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fucking hell, mcj - you really are showing your true colours:
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my position on this matter is that since women have entered the workplace there are fewer jobs for more people.
so women are not "people", then?
pyraxis you are a good interpretor, and i am a bad communicator.
when did i say that women were not people?
who's showing their selective understanding colours, lucifer.
pyraxis do you care to translate or is it lost on you, also?
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fucking hell, mcj - you really are showing your true colours:
my position on this matter is that since women have entered the workplace there are fewer jobs for more people.
so women are not "people", then?  ::)
can you not see how all your arguments are those being disseminated and encouraged by the ones with a vested interest in keeping the status quo in place? i.e., the very people you purport to be fighting against. if you're fighting women in the workplace, you're looking in the wrong place, cos, as usual, the divide and conquer strategy is working beautifully. take a step back, and see who's actually winning, here. in your scenario, women are stealing "people's" jobs, men are resentful, everyone's terrified cos their jobs are at risk... get my drift yet? and the fat cats sit there, quite happily, knowing they can tell the unions to fuck off whenever they feel like it, cos everyone's looking in the wrong place to balme someone.
looking at issues piecemeal like this never works, cos you always end up fighting the wrong foe. the bigger picture tends to be more interesting, apart from anything else - men blaming women and women blaming men for all ills would be getting terribly boring, if the consequences weren't so horrifying.
and your argument is exactly how this slippery slope began tit for tat.
my argument is about individual responsibility and not tossing the kids to the side.
you are the one piece mealing it.
hippocrite. i feel that's fair since that is what you basically called me.
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i didn't call you a hypocrite at all - i merely suggested you take a wider view of things, as your argument is the classic argument used by people who are missing who's really responsible for various ills in the world. if it ain't women stealing the jobs, it's blacks, or gays, or immigrants, or giving jobs to disabled people who can't actually do it...
now do you see what i mean?
and responsibility - both personal and collective - is one of my main bugaboos, possibly the greatest (although as the other is injustice, it's a close thing). i agree with your take on resposnible parenting. where we appear to differ, though, is that i look at collective as well as personal, and fight for the proper support which is needed by whoever chooses to take responsbility for bringing up children. we actually agree on the first point - can you now see what i'm getting at on the second?
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before i read your post i would like to take back the name calling.
this entire subject is very important to me (being the father of two girls possibly three). i am very interested in making sense of this entire subject for my benefit of being able to raise them, responsibly. for their benefit in the big picture.
i do not want to cheapen this debate (discussion) through cheap tactics of name calling.
can i ask your forgiveness and can we move forward in a professional manner and break this thing down and rebuild it the right way?
humbly,
-robert
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/me shrugs.
water off a duck's back, mcj. i've already started, in the last post. let's go from there, shall we?
(have to go to work now - i shall return...).
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i didn't call you a hypocrite at all - i merely suggested you take a wider view of things, as your argument is the classic argument used by people who are missing who's really responsible for various ills in the world. if it ain't women stealing the jobs, it's blacks, or gays, or immigrants, or giving jobs to disabled people who can't actually do it...
now do you see what i mean?
and responsibility - both personal and collective - is one of my main bugaboos, possibly the greatest (although as the other is injustice, it's a close thing). i agree with your take on resposnible parenting. where we appear to differ, though, is that i look at collective as well as personal, and fight for the proper support which is needed by whoever chooses to take responsbility for bringing up children. we actually agree on the first point - can you now see what i'm getting at on the second?
yes i do.
your right, and i in no way meant to cast blame on blacks, immigrants, or women, for the lack of decent jobs.
you know my view about the rights of workers to a fair portion af what they produce. Â it just doesn't happen. Â i am fortunate, i have a dream job and wish that everybody had the same working condition as i do. Â the same level of dignity at the workplace. Â just as i feel that women deserved more dignity in their crucial role of raising the next generation.
yes corporate greed is taking advantage of this divide and conquer technique. Â but its real, and its the result of more people competing for less jobs. Â i would like to one day develope the perfect formula to where everybody gains dignity, people appreciate each others roles and no-one is left behind.
impossible, i think not. Â the answer is beyond me at the moment.
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/me shrugs.
water off a duck's back, mcj. i've already started, in the last post. let's go from there, shall we?
(have to go to work now - i shall return...).
as pyraxis would put it, "i will be waiting with bated breath"
in the meantime i would like to continue with anybody else interrested in the breakdown of the family structure, and i would like to request that each of these be split and maybe we can start a different, meaningful thread about this subject.
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one reason i have a problem with the womans movement is because it tells women that they need to go out into the job market. tells women that being a mother is demeaning, its all about money...
back to the baby boomers greed.
not any more they don't, although yes, they did at one point. now, it's more about recognising that the unpaid "social care" responsbilities women take on (not necessarily as an educated choice), with children, with the eldery, etc., should be recognised for what it is, and recompensed appropriately.
Whilst I agree with your point in theory- in practice a lot of the damage has already been done and its going to take a long time to repair this damage. As a woman who chose to have kids before even thinking about a career, who chose to stay at home to take care of them, I know from experience that many people look down on women for that. I've had other women asking me 'How can you stand to be stuck at home with your kids all day?'- would this question have even been considered before the women came have it all feminist movement??( Which I think tied in nicely with the consumerist attitude of the Thatcher years).
I agree that feminist theory has moved on, but unfortunately the majority of people are still lagging behind in their attitudes.
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i will honor my responsibility and do the best i can ( given that i do not have the natural instincts).
Although I could respond at length to various things in this post, I'm going to refrain at the moment, but I do want to point out one thing. Some aspie moms (myself included) do not feel they have the natural instincts either. Just because you're a mother doesn't mean you naturally have the right instincts.
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i will honor my responsibility and do the best i can ( given that i do not have the natural instincts).
Although I could respond at length to various things in this post, I'm going to refrain at the moment, but I do want to point out one thing. Some aspie moms (myself included) do not feel they have the natural instincts either. Just because you're a mother doesn't mean you naturally have the right instincts.
I agree- I could cope ok with them when they were babies- I had a mental check list for what they might need. But as they get older I have to work hard at understanding them- I think it helps that I can see some of my traits in them so it helps me to understand where they are coming from. But despite the hard work I still feel that I can best fulfil my role as their mother by being there for them, even if money is tight.
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i will honor my responsibility and do the best i can ( given that i do not have the natural instincts).
Although I could respond at length to various things in this post, I'm going to refrain at the moment, but I do want to point out one thing. Some aspie moms (myself included) do not feel they have the natural instincts either. Just because you're a mother doesn't mean you naturally have the right instincts.Â
that i would have to agree with. i have had discussions about parenting with AS moms, and i agree that you are correct. its the emotional arms length thing.
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to PI's posts above: yes, and abso-bloody-lutely. the latter is what i meant about proper support - not just financial support, but advice, emotional support, respect and value put on the job of bringing up kids, etc., etc.
and you're so right about the "looking down their noses" coming from other women - it's another aspect of the divide and conquer thingy. let's face it, it's all about solidarity - if "out groups" stopped the infighting, both inter AND intra, there'd be no stopping sorting things out. and we couldn't have that now, could we? ;)
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what has this become, some sort of hippie love fest.
where is the controversy or difference of opinions.
can it be concluded, that, the men of previous generations have not owned up to their personal responsibilities, and therefore in reaction the womens movement came along to right this wrong and took things to an unreasonable level?
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pt.2. why can't men carry babies to term, why cant men breast feed? there is nothing wrong with a man, being mr mom, i am saying that it is not natural. we (the sexes) are born wired differently, paternal instincts is not as popular as maternal instincts for a reason. we are born wired differently and society does nothing to change those perceptions.
why do women show more emotion than men ( for the most part)?
why are women more nurturing than men (for the most part), even in their relationsships with each other?
women are better at it than men are, and i reiterate, it is the most notable of all professions.
But you said one of the most important influences on you as a child was your grandfather. A man. Even assuming that the sexes are wired differently (I really don't feel like rehashing the nature vs nurture debate right now), what makes you think a "woman's" type of caring is better for a child than a "man's"?
should we just toss out a few generations of children till men acquire the skills necessary to raise children as well as women.
That's better than men never learning, and supporting the status quo by their deliberate ignorance.
women are better than men in so many respects, whats more important tending to a life or making money? i never said that women cannot do carreers as well as men.
They're both equally important, all the motherly caring in the world's not going to help you if you're starving.
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my position on this matter is that since women have entered the workplace there are fewer jobs for more people.
so women are not "people", then?
fucking hell, mcj - you really are showing your true colours:
pyraxis you are a good interpretor, and i am a bad communicator.
when did i say that women were not people?
who's showing their selective understanding colours, lucifer.
It's just ambiguous wording, though grammatically correct. Lucifer's the one who misinterpreted. If you break the sentence apart logically, it doesn't say that women are not people.
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But you said one of the most important influences on you as a child was your grandfather. A man. Even assuming that the sexes are wired differently (I really don't feel like rehashing the nature vs nurture debate right now), what makes you think a "woman's" type of caring is better for a child than a "man's"?
the bonding that takes place in the suckling of the nipples. Â (not meant to be universal, since, not all women can produce healthy cholestrum and mothers milk, and because of formula.
human contact is psychological necessary for a bulk of the population.
BTW- i am half assing this, i can do better. Â and i apologize you deserve better.
my argument isn't about how my grandfather influenced me (during the years that i have memories of), but how women can do things (during the non memory years) that men cannot.
what are we supposed to do?
are we supposed to give women 3-4 years off and have men step in as part time labour.  then women return to work, and men go act as  mr mom?
the problem is that women are necessary at some stage of developement. Â men are not as necessary.
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That's better than men never learning, and supporting the status quo by their deliberate ignorance.
i think it could have been handled better and as less of a shock to the status quo.
the best way to change things is deliberately and over time. get people used to the idea before the idea is actually introduced (i can go on and on over this subject).
yes, something needed to be done to give men a kick in the pants. what we are getting was a cycle of abuse (if you don't mind a buzz phrase). men were getting less and less responsible with each passing generation.
i can only hope that men take stock and realize the importance of a two parent (contributing) family, both emotional and financially. Responsibility is the bottom line here. i suspect that without the drastic measures that have taken place over the past 50 years that i would not be as in tune to how everybody has been wrong. i am choosing to break that cycle of abuse.
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Quote from: McJagger on June 28, 2006, 10:33:48 PM
women are better than men in so many respects, whats more important tending to a life or making money? i never said that women cannot do carreers as well as men.
They're both equally important, all the motherly caring in the world's not going to help you if you're starving.
i agree and here is my reactionary solution:
they (babyboomers) have put a shock to the sytem, i propose and i know this might be controversial, but:
i propose that we stop dishing out social security for the next 25 years, and instead put all the baby boomers in old folks homes (pennies on the SS dollar) and put them in front of a TV and have them spend their twilight years the same way we spent our formative years.
fuck them, they get nothing for they have already taken more than their fair share.
they are going to continue to take until there is no more. MARK MY WORDS ON THIS.
so since they deliberately shocked the system lets shock it back and right the ship.
ALL SS MONEY WILL GO TO EDUCATION AND RESPONSIBILITY RESEARCH. and social security will be used to aid families who would otherwise starve, so that they can do whats right by the future generation.
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Fine. However, as a fellow number-watcher, I'm interested in knowing what are you obsessing on in terms of the numbers you're watching. Can you beat yesterday's count of 4 pages on this thread????
no i am obsessing on the current topic and testing my limits/abilities.
i have seen a shitload of activity today and am interrested in getting 20,000 clicks. but alas i am unprepared for that today. i have nothing up my sleeve. although, ascan can help me if he'd respond to my callout.
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Can you explain WHY the topic of personal responsibility is so important to you?
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And can you explain why Hibakusha is now a guest?
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personal responsibility- becaiuse there is not enough of it. to many people shirking their resaponsibilities, and too many people casting blame.
but i do agree that we have been taught well by our parents (generation) and i am trying to promote awareness, that wghat we have learned is not necessarilly the right way.
you never know.
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the bonding that takes place in the suckling of the nipples. (not meant to be universal, since, not all women can produce healthy cholestrum and mothers milk, and because of formula.
human contact is psychological necessary for a bulk of the population.
True, and there are studies that show that babies who are totally neglected emotionally but have all their physical needs taken care of will die. But I think you're putting too much importance on suckling. There are plenty of mothers, like you said, who can't do it, and their children don't grow up universally scarred for life. So it's not necessary for women to have to take 3-4 years off work. A few months, sure. But the system can handle that. There are temp workers. There are fields (some male-dominated) where it is standard practice to take months off at a time. College professors take sabbaticals. People in film and gaming often have months-long gaps between projects. People of all types take medical leave for various injuries and conditions. And the industry doesn't collapse around them.
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the bonding that takes place in the suckling of the nipples. (not meant to be universal, since, not all women can produce healthy cholestrum and mothers milk, and because of formula.
human contact is psychological necessary for a bulk of the population.
True, and there are studies that show that babies who are totally neglected emotionally but have all their physical needs taken care of will die. But I think you're putting too much importance on suckling. There are plenty of mothers, like you said, who can't do it, and their children don't grow up universally scarred for life. So it's not necessary for women to have to take 3-4 years off work. A few months, sure. But the system can handle that. There are temp workers. There are fields (some male-dominated) where it is standard practice to take months off at a time. College professors take sabbaticals. People in film and gaming often have months-long gaps between projects. People of all types take medical leave for various injuries and conditions. And the industry doesn't collapse around them.
all the examples you stated are seasonal type jobs. Â gaming i assume you meant pro athletes, college isn't year round and sbbatacles are often to study in their respective field of expertise or to write books. Â film and TV is seasonal as well.
i am not saying that women do not belong in the workplace, i am saying that its more necessary to take time off than it is for men.
there is the family leave act which makes it possible. Â and i know there is temp work (too much of it). Â the trend toward temp work is another tool by big businees to skirt benefit and pention plans.
for a woman who wants to work, there should be an equal place for them. Â for women who want to raise families, the men should respect their contribultions and own up to their responsibilities of being a family man, both financially and emotionally.
we could sit here and provide all sorts of exceptions to any subject. Â but the bottom line is look around you and decide for yourself:
is the current trend a positive one or a negative one. Â is it a step in the right direction, or a step backwards for families everywhere.
consider my plan of putting the babies in gerentology care and in front of TV sets for the next 25 years. Â stop all SS and apply that monies towards improving the family environment. Â TV raised us, it can see them off. Â the greedy selfish bastards.
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we could sit here and provide all sorts of exceptions to any subject. Â but the bottom line is look around you and decide for yourself:
is the current trend a positive one or a negative one. Â is it a step in the right direction, or a step backwards for families everywhere.
The current trend. Â Hmm, not sure what you mean by that specifically, but you can't blame it all on the demise of the 50's style American home. Â It was really only a short period of our country's history where the guy worked and the mom stayed home. Â And by the next decade, the 60's, the moms were so bored that Mick Jagger sang a song about those little blue pills "Mother's little helplers". Â Yeah our society is fucked up, and there are many reasons for it. Â One is the tendency for Americans to be so conservative that they cannot tolerate change of any kind. Â Twelve fucking years of Bushes in office, that's one example of resistance to change as well as a cause AND effect of the downward trend of our country.
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i didn't call you a hypocrite at all - i merely suggested you take a wider view of things, as your argument is the classic argument used by people who are missing who's really responsible for various ills in the world. if it ain't women stealing the jobs, it's blacks, or gays, or immigrants, or giving jobs to disabled people who can't actually do it...
now do you see what i mean?
So who are these people you speak of who are really responsible for various ills in the world?
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The cunts with the power...
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I agree with Mcjagger. I think there has been a lot of damage done to society by this idea that there's something liberating about a mother going out and becoming a wageslave when she could be at home looking after her children.
I am assuming that by the "cunts with the power" Duncvis means corporate fat-cats. I am also assuming this is who Lucifer was talking about.
I raised the question above because I'd like to try to understand this point of view. Certain posts in this thread remind me of posts from another thread: one person raises concerns about what they see as a damaging trend in society, and someone else only sees "divide and conquer" tactics. I'd like to know what exactly people mean by this.
As far as I can see, mcjagger's main gripe was not so much with women taking men's jobs, but with the idea that there's something "demeaning" about a woman spending time with her children.
If more women entering the workplace drives down wages, then that is an unfortunate consequence of Women's Liberation. But why blame corporate fat-cats? Sure, the free market doesn't care what damage it does to culture and social cohesion. That's why it's important (I believe) to maintain certain traditions that have held society together for centuries. Governments should also help safeguard society against some of the possible unpleasant consequences of the free market. There are better ways of doing this than income levelling.
The free market might not be perfect, but it's a lot better than communism. ;D
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what are your childrens grandfathers like, do you think they will be such strong influences in their lives?
Im kinda gutted that by the time i have kids, my grandfather and grandmother will probably be gone. Because probably like your grandfather, they are the kind of people that kids should get the opportunity to grow up knowing.
Where are you?
What happened?
You didn't get hounded off of here, did you? :o
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Ask Peaguy.
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Ask Peaguy.
Oh, I know HIS side. I'm much more curious about the
untold sides of all these stories.
But, his harrying of you must be hurting, since
you're jabbing at his personal life.
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Ask Peaguy.
Oh, I know HIS side. I'm much more curious about the
untold sides of all these stories.
But, his harrying of you must be hurting, since
you're jabbing at his personal life.
His words carry more weight than yours, as plentiful as your posts are.... it is like inflation by making too much currency. You are repeating yourself too much. That is one reason why his jabs seem to get more of a rise out of her personally.
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Ask Peaguy.
Oh, I know HIS side. I'm much more curious about the
untold sides of all these stories.
But, his harrying of you must be hurting, since
you're jabbing at his personal life.
His words carry more weight than yours, as plentiful as your posts are.... it is like inflation by making too much currency. You are repeating yourself too much. That is one reason why his jabs seem to get more of a rise out of her personally.
When other people laughed at his nudes, he laughed right along with them, but when I laughed (mostly because of his silly expressions and the direct comparison between Peter's picture and Peaguy's) he said that I was trying to make him feel bad about himself.
I like Peaguy, but it would be better not to post a naked picture of yourself on Intensity if you are going to have your feelings hurt by negative feedback.
He should know this better than anyone, since he is usually the one poking fun at other people's pictures.
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The fact that he did what he did and made that comparison should tell you that he wasn't really going to be bothered that much by your comments. It was not to be taken seriously. I didn't see him get that bent out of shape over you laughing at what I thought was a joke to begin with. Your statement came across with intent, that is why he saw your comment as you actually trying to get to him. That and he has taken shots at you, so he was probably weary for you to take a shot or two back.
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The fact that he did what he did and made that comparison should tell you that he wasn't really going to be bothered that much by your comments. It was not to be taken seriously. I didn't see him get that bent out of shape over you laughing at what I thought was a joke to begin with. Your statement came across with intent, that is why he saw your comment as you actually trying to get to him. That and he has taken shots at you, so he was probably weary for you to take a shot or two back.
That's a really good point. I did not think of it in that way before.
:thanks:
:plus:
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I like Peaguy, but it would be better not to post a naked picture of yourself on Intensity if you are going to have your feelings hurt by negative feedback.
Maybe I'll start to actually like you if you suddenly run in the middle of traffic, along with your vomit-worthy "Saint" persona.
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i find those boobs distracting.
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I like Peaguy, but it would be better not to post a naked picture of yourself on Intensity if you are going to have your feelings hurt by negative feedback.
Maybe I'll start to actually like you if you suddenly run in the middle of traffic, along with your vomit-worthy "Saint" persona.
I like your silly expression in this picture:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm happy for you.
Now go run in traffic.
(And the only reason I'm in the mood to play with you today is because of the fact that I'm in the mood for a flame war. Nothing to do with my "hurt feelings" or whatever. :wanker:)
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seriously those boobs. :o
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Thar we go: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v179/Shuggy/?action=view¤t=cock.flv
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:laugh: