INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Conspiracy Nut on July 26, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
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Are you one of those cashless society goons jumping on covid as an excuse to curtail cash or are you a cash carrying cat?
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I don't like the idea of a cashless society. I don't really use cash so I tend to give my cash to beggars, because that's the only time I generally think about whether or not I happen to have some cash. :dunno:
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can I have some cash?
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:lol1:
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I usually prefer passive beggars over the ones who approach me, like the random person sitting quietly with a sign. :dunno:
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I'm all for luxury space communism >:D
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I usually prefer passive beggars over the ones who approach me, like the random person sitting quietly with a sign. :dunno:
That's actually good advice. I'll set up an e-begging site with some blog posts and put it in my signature. seems the thing to do these days.
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For a business owner, it has been making more and more sense to accept payments electronically rather than in cash. There are costs and risks involved in taking payments in cash.
Cash is disappearing a lot faster than most of us realize.
I have done a fair amount of work around designing electronic payment solutions in e-commerce and mobile payments, I'm happy to discuss this in depth if anyone is interested.
How many of us are old enough to remember getting a pay packet in literal cash? As in an envelope with actual banknotes inside?
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Question: if you are NOT going to accept the cashless society, how would that non-acceptance actually work?
We are literally most of the way there already.
There is a parallel drive, which I'm sure most people haven't noticed, towards reducing the amount of documentation you need in order to sign up for a service, open a bank account, yada yada yada. There is a whole lot of hard science behind collecting information electronically and "reducing friction".
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I'm all for luxury space communism >:D
I once heard someone say, cash is the currency of poor people, so yeah, a lot of things would need to change first or it would definitely seem like an attack on the poor.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cashless-retailers-penalize-the-poor-critics-say/
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There is a whole lot of hard science behind collecting information electronically and "reducing friction".
Its called form fill and its not a science. can make some good cash selling that shit to the [name your industry] companies and you don't need any scientific training.
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There is a whole lot of hard science behind collecting information electronically and "reducing friction".
Its called form fill and its not a science. can make some good cash selling that shit to the [name your industry] companies and you don't need any scientific training.
Nah, that's a different beast to what I am talking about.
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a conspiracy to make us buy things? go on....
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a conspiracy to make us buy things? go on....
Not a conspiracy. Just a bunch of people (business owners, banks, consumers) acting in their own interest and for their own convenience.
I will add some more detail around this a bit later.
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sounds conspiratorial, lol.
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
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Cash is King. I can spend it where I want for what I want without anyone tracking me no questions asked. Immediately available and no processing fee is a big plus. I have a customer who insists on direct deposit and its always three or four days before I get my payment if he paid cash or just gave me a check I would have it available the next day at the latest. As far as my flea market business a lot of my stuff is under $20 and doing 100 plus transactions on a Sunday morning on my phone would be a real pain in the ass. I do use my debit card on most larger purchases such as materials at the supply house but I do that mostly for record keeping, most daily expenses I pay cash
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
Well spotted Jack.
I didn't actually mean that kind of beast.
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
Well spotted Jack.
I didn't actually mean that kind of beast.
Figured as much, but it's been so long since inspired to post a bible quote here. :laugh:
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sounds conspiratorial, lol.
It's only conspiratorial if they are conspiring together.
It's like if I go to the supermarket and buy Pepsi, and the next day you go to the supermarket and buy Pepsi, it's not a conspiracy to buy Pepsi. We both bought Pepsi for our own reasons. Maybe it was discounted, maybe we both like Pepsi.
If I phoned you and said "let's buy Pepsi because the local Coca Cola distributor has cooties", and you bought Pepsi for that reason, then it would be a conspiracy.
Businesses are moving to cashless because:
(1) Lower friction, just wave a card at a reader vs going fishing for the right amount of cash, or potentially not having the cash on you when an opportunity arises to purchase something. This benefits both the consumer and the vendor.
(2) Safety - money gets settled to your account daily vs carrying sums of cash around and potentially being robbed.
(3) Less opportunity for pilfering by staff, less cost for security, less time wasted on depositing and withdrawing cash from a bank.
(4) Less drama chasing customers for payments, just take payments for services rendered or goods delivered, on the spot using a mobile card reader (for example).
(4) Try buying stuff online with cash....
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
Consider yourself virtually plussed.
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If you're worried about your credit card being used as part of a conspiracy, then just give it to me and I will make sure it is. Don't forget the PIN number. :zoinks:
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(4) Try buying stuff online with cash....
Try buying anything when the computers go down. Happened a few weeks ago at Lowes I walked by about twenty people waiting in line with their cards because the card readers were all down and I had cash
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(4) Try buying stuff online with cash....
Try buying anything when the computers go down. Happened a few weeks ago at Lowes I walked by about twenty people waiting in line with their cards because the card readers were all down and I had cash
As the hardware involved becomes cheaper, you will see more retail outlets with backup payment systems that still work when the power is off or the computers are down.
I like cash too, but the move away from cash is already well underway and there are solid reasons why it is happening.
I normally take out a few hundred bucks cash at the start of the month and often there is a chunk left over at the end of the month.
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
I thought of that. My bible-bashing friend, who I like very much, has reminded me of this quote, and said to me that the mark would be in peoples' hands as an identity chip to use for monetary transactions instead of credit cards. It's an interesting idea whether I believe it or not.
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"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." - Revelations 13:17
I thought of that. My bible-bashing friend, who I like very much, has reminded me of this quote, and said to me that the mark would be in peoples' hands as an identity chip to use for monetary transactions instead of credit cards. It's an interesting idea whether I believe it or not.
Can recall as a child when credit cards were becoming more streamlined, someone saying they're the mark of the beast, so the quote generally comes to mind when digital currency comes up.
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Question: if you are NOT going to accept the cashless society, how would that non-acceptance actually work?
We are literally most of the way there already.
There is a parallel drive, which I'm sure most people haven't noticed, towards reducing the amount of documentation you need in order to sign up for a service, open a bank account, yada yada yada. There is a whole lot of hard science behind collecting information electronically and "reducing friction".
There is no such trend towards reducing the documentation to open accounts here if anything they are making it more difficult to do without it. The whole hard science behind collecting information is yet another thing that bothers me about it I don't want every aspect of my day to day activities tracked and monitored there is just too much room for abuse. I know that lots of things do it as it is now like cell phones and browsing history but I can do things to avoid that if I choose by leaving my cell at home or using TOR. In a cashless society every purchase and location could be analyzed the information bought and sold and there would be no way to avoid it, there would be no privacy. Maybe you like targeted adds but they creep me out if I want something I will search for it.
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As for cashless society, yes, we're almost there already. For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
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In all seriousness, I'm all for it. Nearly everything in the UK is contactless, so there is literally no point having cash. It just takes up space, can be easily lost and results in a shitload of change if you buy anything. At least with a card, you can easily deactivate it/get a replacement so it can't be used by anyone else.
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you need cash to buy black and grey market products
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lol no you don't :zoinks:
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well no but it helps.
I'm not impressed by bitcoin, the energy cost of running it is too high.
and it is the opposite of anonymous, its completely open and transparent.
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It only is energy intensive if you... mine it. You can easily convert money into bitcoins the normal way.
It being open and transparent is precisely why transactions can't be tracked, ironically enough.
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not sure what you mean by 'can't be tracked' as it is an open ledger showing the amounts going between every wallet and all wallets are public. making loads of wallets doesn't make you anonymous.
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The wallets themselves are encrypted. This means even with public knowledge of transactions, you still can't find who did it.
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https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/24/researchers-spotlight-the-lie-of-anonymous-data/
Researchers from two universities in Europe have published a method they say is able to correctly re-identify 99.98% of individuals in anonymized data sets with just 15 demographic attributes.
That means, 15 transactions could identify you (if you bought say cocoa-butter lotion, a purse large enough to double as a diaper bag, zinc and magnesium supplements and a bright blue rug, for example)
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Only if it's enough to profile a person by what is bought, not the actual transactions themselves.
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Bitcoin is a very clever tech demo by a consortium of very clever people, possibly from large multinational banks. It has a defined lifespan, almost like it is here to change behaviour and self destruct, and the banks will implement a similar but less energy intensive blockchain that will be the new world currency.
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Banks are typically quite conservative and immune to change, so I don't see them implementing a cryptocurrency at all.
FinTech companies on the other hand...
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An advantage of credit cards is that if you use a bit of common sense you can generally get your money back if you are ripped off. It's not widely publicised but you have a bunch of rights when you are paying by credit card.
Try doing that with cash.
Also if you don't want to be identified by demographic attributes, then don't give away your demographic attributes when buying stuff. Avoid purchases where it is a requirement.
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I have a small limit credit card purely for maintaining my credit rating. Fill it up, use it for basic stuff for the month, rinse and repeat.
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
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Are you one of those cashless society goons jumping on covid as an excuse to curtail cash or are you a cash carrying cat?
In the US it's estimated 3-5% of the population are undocumented, and 7-8% of citizens are unbanked. Cashless is a preferred personal choice, but can see how it could be used to discriminate against tens of millions of people, so don't support it.
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
There are still a few businesses or purchase opportunities that still require cash.
Those will eventually move to cashless. Then you won't need to carry a bit of cash around "just in case".
I would oppose completely removing cash as a means of payment, for similar reasons to Jack plus a couple of others (including my right to make purchases without the knowledge of a bank and potentially the government or some hacker).
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
Germany, for example, is years behind us and many places there still require cash. It's hugely annoying if you travel a lot.
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My bank manager called me into the branch to try sell me a mortgage and give me a credit card, and sign me up to anything else they have. He gave me an 8 grand limit I said nah mate you cod quarter that and it would still be enough, he said, I cant change the limit now, you have to do it later (weird) . So that's the story of how I got an 8 grand credit limit.
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I have a $6000 limit credit card which I initially signed up for when I was working and went on holiday overseas. Very handy as I could take cash out of any ATM or use EFTPOS anywhere. Since 2013 I haven't been working but the credit card got up to $4500. I started to panic about it so I went to the bank and organised a payment plan. I have just finished paying it off, literally last week. It feels good not to have that hanging over my head now.
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Good job, a lot of people struggle with paying off cc debt like that.
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I ran up a little bit of credit card debt a few years ago myself, probably around 3k at most. Main reason why I stick to low limit cards now.
Took out a loan and that's all of that sorted, now it also helps with the credit rating! :zoinks:
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
There are still a few businesses or purchase opportunities that still require cash.
Those will eventually move to cashless. Then you won't need to carry a bit of cash around "just in case".
I would oppose completely removing cash as a means of payment, for similar reasons to Jack plus a couple of others (including my right to make purchases without the knowledge of a bank and potentially the government or some hacker).
It may just be less common here so can't think of anything, or even recall the last time seeing so much as a vending machine which doesn't accept cards. A quarter for an Aldi grocery cart seems the only personal necessity. In the US there is no federal law prohibiting businesses from refusing cash, though there are a handful of states and cities with their own local law against it. Read there has been a bipartisan bill presented to congress last year, but hasn't moved to being accepted by either branch. Current events might push the issue a bit more.
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
Germany, for example, is years behind us and many places there still require cash. It's hugely annoying if you travel a lot.
So then it may not necessarily be a desire for society to reject cash, but rather certain places to catch up with the times?
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Cash is King. I can spend it where I want for what I want without anyone tracking me no questions asked. Immediately available and no processing fee is a big plus. I have a customer who insists on direct deposit and its always three or four days before I get my payment if he paid cash or just gave me a check I would have it available the next day at the latest. As far as my flea market business a lot of my stuff is under $20 and doing 100 plus transactions on a Sunday morning on my phone would be a real pain in the ass. I do use my debit card on most larger purchases such as materials at the supply house but I do that mostly for record keeping, most daily expenses I pay cash
That.
I don't like paper trails so I'll probably continue to deal in cash for as long as possible, as much as possible.
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For me, it can't happen quickly enough.
What difference would it make to a person who already operates without cash?
Germany, for example, is years behind us and many places there still require cash. It's hugely annoying if you travel a lot.
So then it may not necessarily be a desire for society to reject cash, but rather certain places to catch up with the times?
From my very limited experience, yes.
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The real reason we're going to a cashless society is because young people can't count change anymore. :P
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ok boomer
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2019 called, they want their meme back.
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I wish it were a meme.
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The real reason we're going to a cashless society is because young people can't count change anymore. :P
this is true. doing modular arithmetic on the change always screws me up. I don't know why I do it modular, but I stand outside the store for a minute sometimes working out that I haven't been short changed £1.
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I never had an issue with counting change, I just don't like lugging around lots of it. Especially coppers like 1p/2p coins, completely useless in this day and age.
With the bank I'm with, I can round up transactions when I use contactless and the change automatically goes into a seperate savings pot in my account - end up saving up to 30-40 extra a month that way.
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Years ago, 1 and 2 cent coins were phased out here in Australia. We ended up getting 1 and 2 dollar coins as well. 50 cent coins take up the most space so I have a money box for those.
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50 cent sucks
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They redid most of our currency a few years ago. Coins, bills, everything. I use cash so rarely that I still have problems recognising the coins.