INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: Christopher McCandless on March 07, 2010, 11:10:32 PM
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So to carry on...
What has religion got to do with being gay? :facepalm2:
Everything - all the LGBT stuff uses both a religious mentality and arguments. If you do a proper comparision, it would be very hard to illustrate that homosexuality is nothing more or less than a religious belief.
Eh? ??? You think gay people are attracted to people of their own gender because of religious beliefs? What religious beliefs are those? You've completely lost me...
Being attracted to your own gender is no different to any other religious belief. "I must do this because the Lord tells me to" "I have a vision from God" et yadda. There is absolutely no difference in principle between the gay rights movement and any other church.
I have never in my life seen, heard or read any statement by a gay person saying "I must be with my own gender because I had a vision/God told me to." Please explain! ???
Replace God with the unshakable belief that man must shove dick up anothers arse and you get a little closer to my point...
I have never heard anyone say that "Man must shove dick up another's arse." Where are you getting this?! :duh:
Do I really have to spell out my argument in dripping detail so that you get it? Compare Stonewall et al to a religious movement or group and you find that they behave in exactly the same way. They all have their delusions that they follow. They all think that they have the right to get offended if someone questions their delusions, moreover they believe that those who offend them should be punished for doing so. Along with this, they have an extensive set of rituals that go well beyond fucking people up the arse. They claim to have a culture.
Structually and practically, it is a religion and should be treated as such. There is no decent scientific evidence that people are born gay - rather they have been taken in by the ideas behind it. It is a lifestyle and a lifestyle choice.
So all gay people are actually straight, and just forcing themselves to have sex with people of their own gender, because they think the "lifestyle" is cool? Do you think anyone is truly gay? ???
I think we have choices over our own actions. There are people who are strongly convinced that they are born religious, that their beliefs are a basis of life and all decisions that they make. Is that any different to the argument that gay people make? Really they have made a choice to be gay, in the same way the devoutly religious person does not see that they have made a choice to be devoutly religious. It is just another way of abdicating responsbility for ones own actions. They are choosing to act against a set of defined norms and trying to change them for no good reason. Really they are just weak people, however much they want to pretend otherwise. Same with the majority of the population who base their thinking around religious mentality, whether they follow a recognised religion or not.
In the other corner, we have black and disabled people who have (or had in the case of black people) no choice whatsover in acting against the current set of social norms. Correcting these social norms should be the priority. Not indulging the whims of feeble minds at the expense of far more worthy causes.
This is the strangest discussion I've ever had with anyone...I've never heard any religious person say he was "born religious"---taught to be religious, by parents or by a pastor, but not born religious.
No - but most religious people who stick at it cannot see things another way, same with gay people.
And I find it very hard to believe that truly heterosexual people deliberately act against their heterosexuality just to "act against a set of defined norms." I will ask you again, do you really believe that everyone is born straight?
I am not saying its a delibrate choice, not at least on a concious level. But it is a decision that acts against the current set of social norms, which they then expect everyone to change to fit around them. Its the same way that someone might become religious. They claim that they have a calling of some sort in many cases. But very few wake up one morning and just like that decide they want to believe in God. Rather, they drift into it.
But what would be the motive for a genuinely straight person to "drift into" homosexuality? If he was not at all attracted to people of his own gender, do you really think the appeal of rebelling against convention would be enough to keep him from dating/falling in love with the people who did attract him?
The same reason that GA has decided that this week he is a woman. Because they are failing at society and need something to hide behind. Its about saving face - its harder to fit in as a straight atheist male than it is if you join a religious clique or become gay. Really we are talking about misplaced blame - rather than recognise where they are going wrong in the current system, they try to switch into a different set of parameters. GA is ultimately going to end up being disappointed.
Last time, I promise: Do you believe that all gay/bi/transgendered people are actually straight people "taken in" by the appeal of an alternative lifestyle?
Many are. Many choose to do it for another set of reasons - the same set as why someone would choose to be religious. The point is that it is a choice. It is the onus of the Gay rights movement to back up these claims that they are making, without proper evidence. Not on me just to believe them.
I must conclude, then, that you do not believe anyone comes out as gay/bi/tansgendered because that is what they truly are. You are saying some do it to rebel against the "current social norms," others because they "fail at society," but that all of them are actually straight and would be perfectly happy in straight lives if only they would make up their minds to grow up and conform. Have I got that right? Just checking. ::)
I think you need to stop trying to put words into my mouth and making things as black and white as you seem to need it to be. Sexuality is a choice, as I have said. The most logical choice tends to be the one that produces children.
Now you need to explain why any of these groups have a stronger argument for what they want than any strongly religious group. Explain why they deserve it more. Rather than trying to roll my argument into something which I have never made.
I "put words into your mouth," that is, speculate about what you think, because you refuse to answer whether you believe anyone is truly gay. Since you keep talking about homosexulaity as a lifestyle choice made by rebels and misfits, rather than acknowledging that it might in fact be the natural orientation for some, I can only conclude that you do not believe anyone is truly gay. If I have misunderstood you, I would love to hear what you really think.
And why do I now "need to" compare and contrast the rights of gay people and the rights of religious people?
I have answered your question - just not spelled everything out....
Quite simple, the gay rights movement is demanding that gay people be treated better than religious people. So unless you agree with me in that they need to shut up, then you are going to have to justify their premise.
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So to carry on...
What has religion got to do with being gay? :facepalm2:
Everything - all the LGBT stuff uses both a religious mentality and arguments. If you do a proper comparision, it would be very hard to illustrate that homosexuality is nothing more or less than a religious belief.
Eh? ??? You think gay people are attracted to people of their own gender because of religious beliefs? What religious beliefs are those? You've completely lost me...
Being attracted to your own gender is no different to any other religious belief. "I must do this because the Lord tells me to" "I have a vision from God" et yadda. There is absolutely no difference in principle between the gay rights movement and any other church.
I have never in my life seen, heard or read any statement by a gay person saying "I must be with my own gender because I had a vision/God told me to." Please explain! ???
Replace God with the unshakable belief that man must shove dick up anothers arse and you get a little closer to my point...
I have never heard anyone say that "Man must shove dick up another's arse." Where are you getting this?! :duh:
Do I really have to spell out my argument in dripping detail so that you get it? Compare Stonewall et al to a religious movement or group and you find that they behave in exactly the same way. They all have their delusions that they follow. They all think that they have the right to get offended if someone questions their delusions, moreover they believe that those who offend them should be punished for doing so. Along with this, they have an extensive set of rituals that go well beyond fucking people up the arse. They claim to have a culture.
Structually and practically, it is a religion and should be treated as such. There is no decent scientific evidence that people are born gay - rather they have been taken in by the ideas behind it. It is a lifestyle and a lifestyle choice.
So all gay people are actually straight, and just forcing themselves to have sex with people of their own gender, because they think the "lifestyle" is cool? Do you think anyone is truly gay? ???
I think we have choices over our own actions. There are people who are strongly convinced that they are born religious, that their beliefs are a basis of life and all decisions that they make. Is that any different to the argument that gay people make? Really they have made a choice to be gay, in the same way the devoutly religious person does not see that they have made a choice to be devoutly religious. It is just another way of abdicating responsbility for ones own actions. They are choosing to act against a set of defined norms and trying to change them for no good reason. Really they are just weak people, however much they want to pretend otherwise. Same with the majority of the population who base their thinking around religious mentality, whether they follow a recognised religion or not.
In the other corner, we have black and disabled people who have (or had in the case of black people) no choice whatsover in acting against the current set of social norms. Correcting these social norms should be the priority. Not indulging the whims of feeble minds at the expense of far more worthy causes.
This is the strangest discussion I've ever had with anyone...I've never heard any religious person say he was "born religious"---taught to be religious, by parents or by a pastor, but not born religious.
No - but most religious people who stick at it cannot see things another way, same with gay people.
And I find it very hard to believe that truly heterosexual people deliberately act against their heterosexuality just to "act against a set of defined norms." I will ask you again, do you really believe that everyone is born straight?
I am not saying its a delibrate choice, not at least on a concious level. But it is a decision that acts against the current set of social norms, which they then expect everyone to change to fit around them. Its the same way that someone might become religious. They claim that they have a calling of some sort in many cases. But very few wake up one morning and just like that decide they want to believe in God. Rather, they drift into it.
But what would be the motive for a genuinely straight person to "drift into" homosexuality? If he was not at all attracted to people of his own gender, do you really think the appeal of rebelling against convention would be enough to keep him from dating/falling in love with the people who did attract him?
The same reason that GA has decided that this week he is a woman. Because they are failing at society and need something to hide behind. Its about saving face - its harder to fit in as a straight atheist male than it is if you join a religious clique or become gay. Really we are talking about misplaced blame - rather than recognise where they are going wrong in the current system, they try to switch into a different set of parameters. GA is ultimately going to end up being disappointed.
Last time, I promise: Do you believe that all gay/bi/transgendered people are actually straight people "taken in" by the appeal of an alternative lifestyle?
Many are. Many choose to do it for another set of reasons - the same set as why someone would choose to be religious. The point is that it is a choice. It is the onus of the Gay rights movement to back up these claims that they are making, without proper evidence. Not on me just to believe them.
I must conclude, then, that you do not believe anyone comes out as gay/bi/tansgendered because that is what they truly are. You are saying some do it to rebel against the "current social norms," others because they "fail at society," but that all of them are actually straight and would be perfectly happy in straight lives if only they would make up their minds to grow up and conform. Have I got that right? Just checking. ::)
I think you need to stop trying to put words into my mouth and making things as black and white as you seem to need it to be. Sexuality is a choice, as I have said. The most logical choice tends to be the one that produces children.
Now you need to explain why any of these groups have a stronger argument for what they want than any strongly religious group. Explain why they deserve it more. Rather than trying to roll my argument into something which I have never made.
I "put words into your mouth," that is, speculate about what you think, because you refuse to answer whether you believe anyone is truly gay. Since you keep talking about homosexulaity as a lifestyle choice made by rebels and misfits, rather than acknowledging that it might in fact be the natural orientation for some, I can only conclude that you do not believe anyone is truly gay. If I have misunderstood you, I would love to hear what you really think.
And why do I now "need to" compare and contrast the rights of gay people and the rights of religious people?
I have answered your question - just not spelled everything out....
Quite simple, the gay rights movement is demanding that gay people be treated better than religious people. So unless you agree with me in that they need to shut up, then you are going to have to justify their premise.
Please explain how the gay rights movement is demanding that gay people be treated better than religious people.
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So to carry on...
What has religion got to do with being gay? :facepalm2:
Everything - all the LGBT stuff uses both a religious mentality and arguments. If you do a proper comparision, it would be very hard to illustrate that homosexuality is nothing more or less than a religious belief.
Eh? ??? You think gay people are attracted to people of their own gender because of religious beliefs? What religious beliefs are those? You've completely lost me...
Being attracted to your own gender is no different to any other religious belief. "I must do this because the Lord tells me to" "I have a vision from God" et yadda. There is absolutely no difference in principle between the gay rights movement and any other church.
I have never in my life seen, heard or read any statement by a gay person saying "I must be with my own gender because I had a vision/God told me to." Please explain! ???
Replace God with the unshakable belief that man must shove dick up anothers arse and you get a little closer to my point...
I have never heard anyone say that "Man must shove dick up another's arse." Where are you getting this?! :duh:
Do I really have to spell out my argument in dripping detail so that you get it? Compare Stonewall et al to a religious movement or group and you find that they behave in exactly the same way. They all have their delusions that they follow. They all think that they have the right to get offended if someone questions their delusions, moreover they believe that those who offend them should be punished for doing so. Along with this, they have an extensive set of rituals that go well beyond fucking people up the arse. They claim to have a culture.
Structually and practically, it is a religion and should be treated as such. There is no decent scientific evidence that people are born gay - rather they have been taken in by the ideas behind it. It is a lifestyle and a lifestyle choice.
So all gay people are actually straight, and just forcing themselves to have sex with people of their own gender, because they think the "lifestyle" is cool? Do you think anyone is truly gay? ???
I think we have choices over our own actions. There are people who are strongly convinced that they are born religious, that their beliefs are a basis of life and all decisions that they make. Is that any different to the argument that gay people make? Really they have made a choice to be gay, in the same way the devoutly religious person does not see that they have made a choice to be devoutly religious. It is just another way of abdicating responsbility for ones own actions. They are choosing to act against a set of defined norms and trying to change them for no good reason. Really they are just weak people, however much they want to pretend otherwise. Same with the majority of the population who base their thinking around religious mentality, whether they follow a recognised religion or not.
In the other corner, we have black and disabled people who have (or had in the case of black people) no choice whatsover in acting against the current set of social norms. Correcting these social norms should be the priority. Not indulging the whims of feeble minds at the expense of far more worthy causes.
This is the strangest discussion I've ever had with anyone...I've never heard any religious person say he was "born religious"---taught to be religious, by parents or by a pastor, but not born religious.
No - but most religious people who stick at it cannot see things another way, same with gay people.
And I find it very hard to believe that truly heterosexual people deliberately act against their heterosexuality just to "act against a set of defined norms." I will ask you again, do you really believe that everyone is born straight?
I am not saying its a delibrate choice, not at least on a concious level. But it is a decision that acts against the current set of social norms, which they then expect everyone to change to fit around them. Its the same way that someone might become religious. They claim that they have a calling of some sort in many cases. But very few wake up one morning and just like that decide they want to believe in God. Rather, they drift into it.
But what would be the motive for a genuinely straight person to "drift into" homosexuality? If he was not at all attracted to people of his own gender, do you really think the appeal of rebelling against convention would be enough to keep him from dating/falling in love with the people who did attract him?
The same reason that GA has decided that this week he is a woman. Because they are failing at society and need something to hide behind. Its about saving face - its harder to fit in as a straight atheist male than it is if you join a religious clique or become gay. Really we are talking about misplaced blame - rather than recognise where they are going wrong in the current system, they try to switch into a different set of parameters. GA is ultimately going to end up being disappointed.
Last time, I promise: Do you believe that all gay/bi/transgendered people are actually straight people "taken in" by the appeal of an alternative lifestyle?
Many are. Many choose to do it for another set of reasons - the same set as why someone would choose to be religious. The point is that it is a choice. It is the onus of the Gay rights movement to back up these claims that they are making, without proper evidence. Not on me just to believe them.
I must conclude, then, that you do not believe anyone comes out as gay/bi/tansgendered because that is what they truly are. You are saying some do it to rebel against the "current social norms," others because they "fail at society," but that all of them are actually straight and would be perfectly happy in straight lives if only they would make up their minds to grow up and conform. Have I got that right? Just checking. ::)
I think you need to stop trying to put words into my mouth and making things as black and white as you seem to need it to be. Sexuality is a choice, as I have said. The most logical choice tends to be the one that produces children.
Now you need to explain why any of these groups have a stronger argument for what they want than any strongly religious group. Explain why they deserve it more. Rather than trying to roll my argument into something which I have never made.
I "put words into your mouth," that is, speculate about what you think, because you refuse to answer whether you believe anyone is truly gay. Since you keep talking about homosexulaity as a lifestyle choice made by rebels and misfits, rather than acknowledging that it might in fact be the natural orientation for some, I can only conclude that you do not believe anyone is truly gay. If I have misunderstood you, I would love to hear what you really think.
And why do I now "need to" compare and contrast the rights of gay people and the rights of religious people?
I have answered your question - just not spelled everything out....
Quite simple, the gay rights movement is demanding that gay people be treated better than religious people. So unless you agree with me in that they need to shut up, then you are going to have to justify their premise.
Please explain how the gay rights movement is demanding that gay people be treated better than religious people.
Because they are interfering with people acting on their religious beliefs and the internal affairs of religious organisations. For example Catholic adoption agencies, forcing them to have gay priests and so on. The names debate on gay marriage is another example. Its all evident - pick up a national newspaper in the UK for a week or look online. Not difficult to find with google...
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locked threads: ::)
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Aha...you accused ME of pretending I have evidence.
Not the case, I merely suggested that you should look into issues re GID etc.
I think what comes to mind is I think you protesteth too much.
Do you have your own personal issues against gays (not that GA is) or whatever. You seem highly emotive on this issue.
You want GA to conform to the status quo, yet this is the stance you despise?
What's been most enlightening is actually YOUR emotive response to GA.
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I can't pick up a UK newspaper because I'm in the US. I also agree that religious organizations should be free to impose their own rules within their own membership. I have always believed, if you disagree with your religion, leave it. Maybe the UK culture is different. Over here, gay marriage is still a big issue; it only became legal in my state in 2004, opposed by many religious groups who think their beliefs should be imposed outside their membership. That is what makes me angry.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
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Aha...you accused ME of pretending I have evidence.
Not the case, I merely suggested that you should look into issues re GID etc.
I think what comes to mind is I think you protesteth too much.
Do you have your own personal issues against gays (not that GA is) or whatever. You seem highly emotive on this issue.
You want GA to conform to the status quo, yet this is the stance you despise?
What's been most enlightening is actually YOUR emotive response to GA.
I look at the battles which have a real point - the GID stuff is a dead end as far as I am concerned. We cannot be occupying ourselves with these pointless and damaging battles. There are simple fundementals that we are all after, education, jobs and respect. But key to all this is a right that needs to be implemented - that no-one can discriminate against us on social grounds for any job or opportunity that we might apply for, unless the social aspect is strictly neccessary. This is something that I actually put a lot of effort into fighting for. However when we have lots of people like GA choosing to be liabilities, this goal is so much less likely to happen. Just imagine him or someone like him all over the sunday tabloids. People like him hold us back from the basics that really matter for the sake of their own self-indulgence.
As for gay people nothing against them personally. But I expect them to get out of the way of more important causes. No one is stopping them having access to any basics. Their struggle is trivial compared to most of our own, all they have to do is tell a simple lie. We have to live one and most of us fail. Nor do we have a choice in the matter. They do.
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I can't pick up a UK newspaper because I'm in the US. I also agree that religious organizations should be free to impose their own rules within their own membership. I have always believed, if you disagree with your religion, leave it. Maybe the UK culture is different. Over here, gay marriage is still a big issue; it only became legal in my state in 2004, opposed by many religious groups who think their beliefs should be imposed outside their membership. That is what makes me angry.
No need, they put all their articles up free online. Just seach say the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times Online or anything else.
But yes, this is the main opposition to the gay rights movement. They have had what they could reasonably ask for and more. But they are being very greedy now. What they are asking for is definitely a waste of political capital. How dare they take up political time on things like the right to give blood, which has no real impact on peoples lives, whilst our collegues are suffering through lack of proper treatment. Are you starting to see why I am grated.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Black rights...and WTF do YOU know about black rights?
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
-
Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
thank god for us that you would be there to give the counter story.
we should all be grateful to you hadron.
-
Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Black rights...and WTF do YOU know about black rights?
A lot as it happens, having studied it. But it is besides the point. With black rights, the legitmacy is almost impossible to dispute. They have achieved a lot more that gay rights people ever did. Neurodiversity as a strategy is never going to work, its just an imitation of gay rights. 1) Lack of numbers 2) No clear message that the average schmuck can get (e.g. shag same sex) 3) Need a far bigger change that gay rights ever did. 4) No clear legitimacy - looks too much like we are trying to induge in a lifestyle choice, rather than we have no choice about our social difficulties.
4 good reasons why Neurodiversity is never going to work as a strategy. We need one simple demand and its best we use the symmetry with the black rights movement to do it. It is a far more effective approach. If you don't believe me, try explaining neurodiversity to the average NT and see how it happens.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
thank god for us that you would be there to give the counter story.
we should all be grateful to you hadron.
People like him in the way make the task a lot harder. It means essentially we are going to have to make our own Farrakhan of sorts when the time comes. Not something I would want to happen unless necessary.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
thank god for us that you would be there to give the counter story.
we should all be grateful to you hadron.
People like him in the way make the task a lot harder. It means essentially we are going to have to make our own Farrakhan of sorts when the time comes. Not something I would want to happen unless necessary.
you always need a good cop bad cop. that way the good cop portrayer is readily listened to.
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Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
May end up hating myself in the morning for this but have to say Christopher did make a point, and his interview scenario may speak more of the heart of what is bothering him than anything else written on this subject; something he would feel would make him look bad. Have noted the issue of sexuality, asexuality, and gender identity in others and feel there may be some possible connection and would not be upset with the association. However have been very upset in other situations where some who also have personality disorders portray traits of those disorders as being traits of autism. Found this very upsetting, and while not agreeing on this issue can completely understand his stance.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
thank god for us that you would be there to give the counter story.
we should all be grateful to you hadron.
People like him in the way make the task a lot harder. It means essentially we are going to have to make our own Farrakhan of sorts when the time comes. Not something I would want to happen unless necessary.
you always need a good cop bad cop. that way the good cop portrayer is readily listened to.
It needs to be done very carefully. The problem is we have to do something on the way to get bad cop in place. We end up with the very real concern of someone overenthusatic taking things too far. Then we lose control. We could easily end up with an army of Unabombers or worse. The problem is whoever plays bad cop will have people over-executing their decisions and jumping the gun. We know what some of our lot can be like. Keeping them in line will be difficult.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
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Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
May end up hating myself in the morning for this but have to say Christopher did make a point, and his interview scenario may speak more of the heart of what is bothering him than anything else written on this subject; something he would feel would make him look bad. Have noted the issue of sexuality, asexuality, and gender identity in others and feel there may be some possible connection and would not be upset with the association. However have been very upset in other situations where some who also have personality disorders portray traits of those disorders as being traits of autism. Found this very upsetting, and while not agreeing on this issue can completely understand his stance.
Thanks for being honest here. I think your point on sexuality is interesting - some subtle AS traits do often get misinterpreted as being gay. Which does make things even more difficult for us, especially as we get no right of reply on other peoples assumptions.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
Quite easy - claim he is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
-
Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
Quite easy - claim he is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
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When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
:agreed:
Exactly. If Hadron has the guts to put himself out there as a poster child for AS, then he has that right just the same as anyone else does.
If he doesn't, then I don't think he has the right to complain if other people do just because they don't meet his criteria.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
Quite easy - claim he is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
So we should delay or stall for the likes of GA? In the meantime, lots of people with AS are throwing themselves under that bus, having had no control of the circumstances that led them there. Our situation is ugly. People like GA make it uglier and for no good reason apart from their own narcisstic self indulgence and stupidity. At least our comrades will have a choice in life as to whether they have one or not.
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When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
:agreed:
Exactly. If Hadron has the guts to put himself out there as a poster child for AS, then he has that right just the same as anyone else does.
If he doesn't, then I don't think he has the right to complain if other people do just because they don't meet his criteria.
I have way more for the cause than GA will ever get off his arse to do. I haven't ruled out the option of stepping up myself, though I am hoping there is no need. Asides, there are other more important preparations that need to be set in motion before we get onto poster children. At the minute, the current ones suit our purposes.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
Quite easy - claim he is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
So we should delay or stall for the likes of GA? In the meantime, lots of people with AS are throwing themselves under that bus, having had no control of the circumstances that led them there. Our situation is ugly. People like GA make it uglier and for no good reason apart from their own narcisstic self indulgence and stupidity. At least our comrades will have a choice in life as to whether they have one or not.
Nobody has said anything about delaying or stalling. If you want the world to see aspies you think they will respect and approve of (like yourself), then tell your own story. Even if you are not in the media, be open in your daily life about who you are. Then, if another aspie goes public with a story that you fear will harm the cause, you will have done your part to present a more balanced view. People who know you will say, "No, they're not all like so-and-so who was in the Sunday paper; I know an aspie, and he's completely different."
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
thank god for us that you would be there to give the counter story.
we should all be grateful to you hadron.
People like him in the way make the task a lot harder. It means essentially we are going to have to make our own Farrakhan of sorts when the time comes. Not something I would want to happen unless necessary.
you always need a good cop bad cop. that way the good cop portrayer is readily listened to.
It needs to be done very carefully. The problem is we have to do something on the way to get bad cop in place. We end up with the very real concern of someone overenthusatic taking things too far. Then we lose control. We could easily end up with an army of Unabombers or worse. The problem is whoever plays bad cop will have people over-executing their decisions and jumping the gun. We know what some of our lot can be like. Keeping them in line will be difficult.
i pick you. you are easy to ignore. :laugh:
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So out of interests.....you black Hadron?
You mention a lot about what you have done for Autism rights but you know i think you are a twenty something kid with no authority or experience and all this great advocate bullshit is in your head.
I know, I know, it is secretive and so clever that IF I knew about it, I would be impressed. Not buying it and I don't think any here do.
GA somehow is representative of all Aspies? Being Transgendered is in which way related to AS?
What are you on about with your scaremongering. You really are a frightened little mouse aren't you?
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
I so agree here. Lets lock up all ASD persons who are not for the rest looking like the perfect normal citizen.
Blindness, hearing problems, hereditary hip-problems, and, while we're at it, lets lock up all autistics over 50 too. Aging is so horrible. And since age is said to be mostly a matter of the mind, damn, they could have prevented their wrinkles.
Hail to the pedigree perfect aspie.
You rock Hadron. (but not in public)
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
does GA have an ASD dx?
Yes, from what he says. Could you imagine the article. I can see exactly how it would go down with NT's. Its the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful. Our cause has to be strongly related to the black rights cause and nothing else if we are to gain legitimacy. A lot of people think we are faking it. With people like GA, who can blame them.
Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
One is a serious situation, another is a self-indulgence. You make it sound as if such an interview will be written up nicely. I am sure the writer will invent a nice and very damaging connection to help us out.
Unless of course we take the sensible option and deligitimise his nonsense before any idiot like him tries to make a meaningful move.
*shrug* How would you "delegitimise" him? Why not just tell your own story and let others tell theirs?
Quite easy - claim he is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
When one aspie calls for another aspie to be thrown under the bus because of the prejudice of others, things have already gotten ugly. :thumbdn:
So we should delay or stall for the likes of GA? In the meantime, lots of people with AS are throwing themselves under that bus, having had no control of the circumstances that led them there. Our situation is ugly. People like GA make it uglier and for no good reason apart from their own narcisstic self indulgence and stupidity. At least our comrades will have a choice in life as to whether they have one or not.
Nobody has said anything about delaying or stalling. If you want the world to see aspies you think they will respect and approve of (like yourself), then tell your own story. Even if you are not in the media, be open in your daily life about who you are. Then, if another aspie goes public with a story that you fear will harm the cause, you will have done your part to present a more balanced view. People who know you will say, "No, they're not all like so-and-so who was in the Sunday paper; I know an aspie, and he's completely different."
You obviously don't have a clue about political reality. Any story like GA's needs to be disowned on the spot. It would be very difficult to actually defend publically.
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So out of interests.....you black Hadron?
No. Need I be?
You mention a lot about what you have done for Autism rights but you know i think you are a twenty something kid with no authority or experience and all this great advocate bullshit is in your head.
I know, I know, it is secretive and so clever that IF I knew about it, I would be impressed. Not buying it and I don't think any here do.
GA somehow is representative of all Aspies? Being Transgendered is in which way related to AS?
What are you on about with your scaremongering. You really are a frightened little mouse aren't you?
I have nothing to prove. The picture I paint is very real. GA and people as deluded as him are a problem and one that needs to be dealt with. Particularly this neurodiversity nonsense.
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
I so agree here. Lets lock up all ASD persons who are not for the rest looking like the perfect normal citizen.
Blindness, hearing problems, hereditary hip-problems, and, while we're at it, lets lock up all autistics over 50 too. Aging is so horrible. And since age is said to be mostly a matter of the mind, damn, they could have prevented their wrinkles.
Hail to the pedigree perfect aspie.
You rock Hadron. (but not in public)
This is such a facile comparision. Transgenderism is pure fantasy, not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of the rest of the public too. And rightly so. It does not need legitimising. It needs people to be put in their place and to except their own reality.
Having delusional people running around claiming to represent us undermines the cause. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.
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There is no "us", silly. Not out there, not IRL. Never was, never will be. Just a bunch of spazzes with a dx going a long way to explain why there won't ever be an "us".
You'll never represent me.
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i'm not reading thru all this shit unless there's something new in it, which i'm guessing there isn't
being trans (or gay, bi, whatever) has nothing to do with whether somone has AS or not
i don't feel that by being trans i'm taking something away from other autistic people - but tbh, even if i was, wouldn't it be the homophobia/transphobia of people like you that's causing the problem? not the being gay/being trans itself
as for GA, i think she is pretty fucking brave tbh and i admire that
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Hadron, whilst you are abusing GA, maybe we can address your own issues of abuse.....perhaps that's why you feel the need to start a witch hunt?
Have you ever looked into it's effects on YOUR persona?
Imagine GA telling his story to a Sunday paper. Think it through. Then think how damaging it is to the AS cause.
I so agree here. Lets lock up all ASD persons who are not for the rest looking like the perfect normal citizen.
Blindness, hearing problems, hereditary hip-problems, and, while we're at it, lets lock up all autistics over 50 too. Aging is so horrible. And since age is said to be mostly a matter of the mind, damn, they could have prevented their wrinkles.
Hail to the pedigree perfect aspie.
You rock Hadron. (but not in public)
This is such a facile comparision. Transgenderism is pure fantasy, not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of the rest of the public too. And rightly so. It does not need legitimising. It needs people to be put in their place and to except their own reality.
Having delusional people running around claiming to represent us undermines the cause. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.
You know, "normal" people, neurotype way of normal I mean, come in all kinds of flavours and colours. They can be black, white, yellow, freckled, female, male, something inbetween, they can be attracted to women, to men, to no-one. They may like sex, they can be abhorred by it. They come severely overweighted, and horribly anorexic. And they all get a vote in a democracy. They all have their say. They all count.
How do you want to take them to take us, of a different neurotype, serious, if you discard a whole range of how we can be. And thus, discard a whole range of them too.
Yes, you find it a facile comparision. That is where you miss the point.
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There is no "us", silly. Not out there, not IRL. Never was, never will be. Just a bunch of spazzes with a dx going a long way to explain why there won't ever be an "us".
You'll never represent me.
Its about a cause rather than representation. It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on. What is left to agree is how we get there. Having the right people in play doing the right things makes it all more likely.
People like GA are sending us backwards.
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i'm not reading thru all this shit unless there's something new in it, which i'm guessing there isn't
being trans (or gay, bi, whatever) has nothing to do with whether somone has AS or not
Not quite true - for arguments I made in the other thread when Eclair claimed there was a link. But it is not relevant really to the argument that I am making. The point is that people like GA are trying to invent a link that does not exist through the neurodiversity nonsence.
i don't feel that by being trans i'm taking something away from other autistic people - but tbh, even if i was, wouldn't it be the homophobia/transphobia of people like you that's causing the problem? not the being gay/being trans itself
as for GA, i think she is pretty fucking brave tbh and i admire that
Phobia? No. Its people just not prioritising your demands and rightly so. The real world is that people with AS also deciding to be trans or whatever makes the argument more difficult. Their lifestyle choice should not be in the way of the needed changes happening for an actual legitimate cause.
You and GA both need to deal with reality, rather than the world as you want it to be.
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huh? i think i have a pretty good grip on reality tbh
again, i don't see how my being trans in any way harms non-trans autistic people. just like aspies who are fat, ugly, dyslexic, short or bald aren't harming me
i don't expect anyone to place my rights as a transgendered person above the rights of non-trans people. what demands am i making that are gonna n any way harm non-trans people (autistic or not)?
btw no one decides to be trans (unless by trans you mean cross dressers etc)
the only decisions a trans person makes are about whether or not to be open about it or hide it
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also the homophobia/transphobia cop-out of "it's not xxx-phobia coz i'm not scared of you" doesn't really work here hadron. you clearly are scared of gays/trannies as you have some insane idea that we're a threat to you. sounds like a phobia to me :zoinks:
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Its about a cause rather than representation. It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on. What is left to agree is how we get there. Having the right people in play doing the right things makes it all more likely.
People like GA are sending us backwards.
If you're really fighting a cause, some political correctness might be in order. Yes, blind leading blind here. Your last sentence contradicts your first one. It is about representation, and would bet everyone here has encountered someone online who they wouldn't want to see as a representative of the autistic spectrum. Your views are no doubt yours, but if you layed off the offensive attacks someone might hear the rest of what you're saying. Most of the people you have been fighting with here have stated sexuality and ASD are two different things. Isn't that what you're saying? You think they should be separate? You don't want them mutually represented? Maybe the point was missed yesterday on this end.
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My my...Isn't this a delicious thread? :clap:
does GA have an ASD dx?
Dunc's Law?
as for GA, i think she is pretty fucking brave tbh and i admire that
:plus:
Carry on. This is most educating. Mostly I just want to see how far Hadron will really sink. :lol:
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"I just want to see how far Hadron will really sink." Doing a damned good job so far, GA. These are all assertions that he has made in this thread alone.
... all [gay people] have to do is tell a simple lie.
Because telling the truth is soooo overrated. It does nothing for your credibility.
How dare [gays] take up political time on things like the right to give blood, which has no real impact on peoples lives
Tell that to someone who depends on blood donations in order to continue living.
[For people such as Galileo Ace to speak of their own life experiences and struggles is] the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful.
Because the right to speak freely about yourself and your beliefs is just soooo overrated. Almost as bad as telling the truth as you perceive it.
[Instead of trying to win support for neurodiversity] (w)e need one simple demand and its best we use the symmetry with the black rights movement to do it.
What if black people decide that those aspie & autie spazzes make them look ridiculous, and try to discredit us?
... take the sensible option and deligitimise his (sic) nonsense before any idiot like him (sic) tries to make a meaningful move.
Because silencing any fellow aspie who doesn't agree with you is such a principled way to fight.
It needs to be done very carefully. The problem is we have to do something on the way to get bad cop in place. We end up with the very real concern of someone overenthusatic taking things too far. Then we lose control. We could easily end up with an army of Unabombers or worse. The problem is whoever plays bad cop will have people over-executing their decisions and jumping the gun. We know what some of our lot can be like. Keeping them in line will be difficult.
The party apparatchik's worst problem is not the political opposition, but the True Believers from his own side who actually believe all that bullshit about autonomy, and justice, and freedom.
... we get no right of reply on other peoples assumptions.
The hell we don't. The fact that I choose to continue living is, by itself, a big gob of spit in the eye of other people's assumptions.
Quite easy - claim he (sic) is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
Our lives as a party campaign? With discipline, rules, and threat of punishment or expulsion for non-compliance? What an incredibly impoverished way of looking at the matter.
Transgenderism is pure fantasy, not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of the rest of the public too. And rightly so. It does not need legitimising. It needs people to be put in their place and to except their own reality.
Having delusional people running around claiming to represent us undermines the cause.
What's wrong with the idea of letting people speak for themselves? No one is telling you that you must believe them.
It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on.
I think we're old enough and ugly enough to figure out what our own priorities ought to be.
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
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Being aspie and being transgendered are two separate issues, which in some people happen to coexist. I think readers of this hypothetical interview could understand that.
May end up hating myself in the morning for this but have to say Christopher did make a point, and his interview scenario may speak more of the heart of what is bothering him than anything else written on this subject; something he would feel would make him look bad. Have noted the issue of sexuality, asexuality, and gender identity in others and feel there may be some possible connection and would not be upset with the association. However have been very upset in other situations where some who also have personality disorders portray traits of those disorders as being traits of autism. Found this very upsetting, and while not agreeing on this issue can completely understand his stance.
Hadron makes practically everything go back to his "cause." His reactions tend to be about as logical as the kind of feminazi anti-cock rants that would call battered men's shelters a crime against women. Unlike a feminazi, though, Hadron never stops being on the rag.
I so agree here. Lets lock up all ASD persons who are not for the rest looking like the perfect normal citizen.
Blindness, hearing problems, hereditary hip-problems, and, while we're at it, lets lock up all autistics over 50 too. Aging is so horrible. And since age is said to be mostly a matter of the mind, damn, they could have prevented their wrinkles.
Hail to the pedigree perfect aspie.
You rock Hadron. (but not in public)
That, gays, gypsies, and the mentally defective. (Not to kill the thread, but someone had to say it.)
Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
I really don't think that it would end up doing anything but bringing awareness to two issues at once anyway, even if it were to happen- except to the types of people who legitimately assume that all people with ASDs will be duplicates of rainman- and those folks will start stereotyping after *any* kind of major media attention is drawn to ASDs.
I'm also doubtful of that type of research being done on any large scale unless some pharmaceutical company or another stands to profit from it. Big studies are unfortunately driven far more often by profit than by the desire to learn and/or "do good." So, ask yourself... how likely is it that there will be a pill out in the foreseeable future that will treat autism *and* address transgender issues, all in one go- not counting off-label prescribing, of course. Which, come to think of it, I'd not be surprised to hear some quacks were trying to do already.
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What does GA being transgendered have to do with him being gay or not? If he is truly asexual, then he can't be actually considered gay (in the homosexual context). If he wants to play dress up and act like a woman, it does not effect me directly in any way. I still think he looks ridiculous though haha.
On a more serious note: You are all a bunch of gay defective faggots that need to be exterminated.
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Because they are interfering with people acting on their religious beliefs and the internal affairs of religious organisations. For example Catholic adoption agencies, forcing them to have gay priests and so on.
The Caltholic Church already has gay priests you stupid fuck!! The Church just forces them to be in the closet and rape little boys instaed of being open about who they are.
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I really don't think that it would end up doing anything but bringing awareness to two issues at once anyway, even if it were to happen- except to the types of people who legitimately assume that all people with ASDs will be duplicates of rainman- and those folks will start stereotyping after *any* kind of major media attention is drawn to ASDs.
I'm also doubtful of that type of research being done on any large scale unless some pharmaceutical company or another stands to profit from it. Big studies are unfortunately driven far more often by profit than by the desire to learn and/or "do good." So, ask yourself... how likely is it that there will be a pill out in the foreseeable future that will treat autism *and* address transgender issues, all in one go- not counting off-label prescribing, of course. Which, come to think of it, I'd not be surprised to hear some quacks were trying to do already.
Pretty much what I thought. But my concern is more on how the media frames the story to 'spice' it up. I'm thinking more about the typical sensationalism being the problem, rather than just the sponsorships behind it. Hence why a diverse group of advocates is required to mitigate such attempts.
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"I just want to see how far Hadron will really sink." Doing a damned good job so far, GA. These are all assertions that he has made in this thread alone.
... all [gay people] have to do is tell a simple lie.
Because telling the truth is soooo overrated. It does nothing for your credibility.
How dare [gays] take up political time on things like the right to give blood, which has no real impact on peoples lives
Tell that to someone who depends on blood donations in order to continue living.
[For people such as Galileo Ace to speak of their own life experiences and struggles is] the sort of thing that needs stamping out, along with the Neurodiversity arguments if we are to be successful.
Because the right to speak freely about yourself and your beliefs is just soooo overrated. Almost as bad as telling the truth as you perceive it.
[Instead of trying to win support for neurodiversity] (w)e need one simple demand and its best we use the symmetry with the black rights movement to do it.
What if black people decide that those aspie & autie spazzes make them look ridiculous, and try to discredit us?
... take the sensible option and deligitimise his (sic) nonsense before any idiot like him (sic) tries to make a meaningful move.
Because silencing any fellow aspie who doesn't agree with you is such a principled way to fight.
It needs to be done very carefully. The problem is we have to do something on the way to get bad cop in place. We end up with the very real concern of someone overenthusatic taking things too far. Then we lose control. We could easily end up with an army of Unabombers or worse. The problem is whoever plays bad cop will have people over-executing their decisions and jumping the gun. We know what some of our lot can be like. Keeping them in line will be difficult.
The party apparatchik's worst problem is not the political opposition, but the True Believers from his own side who actually believe all that bullshit about autonomy, and justice, and freedom.
... we get no right of reply on other peoples assumptions.
The hell we don't. The fact that I choose to continue living is, by itself, a big gob of spit in the eye of other people's assumptions.
Quite easy - claim he (sic) is not a true Aspie. The point is, we need everyone to sing the party line. Otherwise we get nowhere. Think in terms of someone in a political party going against the party line and look at how damaging it always is.
We need a simple, coherent message and for everyone to stick to it. Things will get ugly otherwise.
Our lives as a party campaign? With discipline, rules, and threat of punishment or expulsion for non-compliance? What an incredibly impoverished way of looking at the matter.
Transgenderism is pure fantasy, not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of the rest of the public too. And rightly so. It does not need legitimising. It needs people to be put in their place and to except their own reality.
Having delusional people running around claiming to represent us undermines the cause.
What's wrong with the idea of letting people speak for themselves? No one is telling you that you must believe them.
It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on.
I think we're old enough and ugly enough to figure out what our own priorities ought to be.
How dare you think for yourself SD? :zombiefuck: :laugh:
:plus: for stamina.
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There is no "us", silly. Not out there, not IRL. Never was, never will be. Just a bunch of spazzes with a dx going a long way to explain why there won't ever be an "us".
You'll never represent me.
Its about a cause rather than representation. It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on. What is left to agree is how we get there. Having the right people in play doing the right things makes it all more likely.
People like GA are sending us backwards.
YOU are sending yourself backwards. I'd make sure the road is clear if I were you.
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There is no "us", silly. Not out there, not IRL. Never was, never will be. Just a bunch of spazzes with a dx going a long way to explain why there won't ever be an "us".
You'll never represent me.
Its about a cause rather than representation. It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on. What is left to agree is how we get there. Having the right people in play doing the right things makes it all more likely.
People like GA are sending us backwards.
YOU are sending yourself backwards. I'd make sure the road is clear if I were you.
Oh, he paved the road with "good intentions." He'll get there.
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I mean this with the utmost respect. He [Hadron] sounds like a person with AS. Not the idiotic view point, obviously. But he has made up his mind, he has done his "research" and he if it hurts your feelings he could care less. I say this having an Aspie as one of my oldest friends and 10 plus years of being their only social outlet...
I love Aspies, but when they think they know what's what... not much point arguing.
[...]he thinks that AS need more rights, and he believes that until gay rights are resolved he can't get anyone to care about AS rights, so gay rights must not be a problem, because it's in the way
so gay ppl are making it up and need to let people with real problems through
what does he care he's not gay
but he is AS
that's how I read him at least
again, in no way am I justifying his argument, it's crap
just that it's not important how bad it is, because it serves his underline need
and that you can't convince him otherwise
he wants you to think a certain way, so that you'll support his AS agenda fully
again it's all means to the same ends
which is why I describe him as interesting, although I think sad would also be appropriate
or am I getting overly analytical :P
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I mean this with the utmost respect. He [Hadron] sounds like a person with AS. Not the idiotic view point, obviously. But he has made up his mind, he has done his "research" and he if it hurts your feelings he could care less. I say this having an Aspie as one of my oldest friends and 10 plus years of being their only social outlet...
I love Aspies, but when they think they know what's what... not much point arguing.
[...]he thinks that AS need more rights, and he believes that until gay rights are resolved he can't get anyone to care about AS rights, so gay rights must not be a problem, because it's in the way
so gay ppl are making it up and need to let people with real problems through
what does he care he's not gay
but he is AS
that's how I read him at least
again, in no way am I justifying his argument, it's crap
just that it's not important how bad it is, because it serves his underline need
and that you can't convince him otherwise
he wants you to think a certain way, so that you'll support his AS agenda fully
again it's all means to the same ends
which is why I describe him as interesting, although I think sad would also be appropriate
or am I getting overly analytical :P
I don't describe Hadron.
Then again I don't describe the results of my bowel movements when I have food poisoning.
Some things are best not described.
I don't read much of Hadron either....for much the same reasons.
I think he will rejoice every victory of merit in the "cause". I think he will pat the backs of the "worthy". I think he will allude to the great fight with his "comrades". I think he will bask in the "unity" and fighting spirit. He will play up on all the mistakes he was not silly enough to make and all the meaningless battles he was not stupid enough to engage in and all the risks he was clever enough not to enganger himself in and at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
Don't forget that he knows a lot of influential people. :P
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
Don't forget that he knows a lot of influential people. :P
And he walked a drunken lord home and put him to bed, apparently.
He never said what happened next, though.
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The cause happened.
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Maybe he took one for the "team"
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You're jealous because Hadron is BRAVE! :arrr:
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He'd have to be, to walk that drunken lord home and put him to bed.
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huh? i think i have a pretty good grip on reality tbh
again, i don't see how my being trans in any way harms non-trans autistic people. just like aspies who are fat, ugly, dyslexic, short or bald aren't harming me
i don't expect anyone to place my rights as a transgendered person above the rights of non-trans people. what demands am i making that are gonna n any way harm non-trans people (autistic or not)?
btw no one decides to be trans (unless by trans you mean cross dressers etc)
the only decisions a trans person makes are about whether or not to be open about it or hide it
You cannot wake up one morning and decide that your arbitary group, united by an arbitrary and pointless decision that you have taken, suddenly have a special set of rights. Where do they come from? Why your arbitary group - as opposed to another group with a different arbitrary belief.
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also the homophobia/transphobia cop-out of "it's not xxx-phobia coz i'm not scared of you" doesn't really work here hadron. you clearly are scared of gays/trannies as you have some insane idea that we're a threat to you. sounds like a phobia to me :zoinks:
I am merely spelling out political reality. People like GA are damaging to the cause.
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Its about a cause rather than representation. It is about the rights of people with AS not to be discrimated against unduly in all aspects of their life for having it. That is a cause that all of us should agree on. What is left to agree is how we get there. Having the right people in play doing the right things makes it all more likely.
People like GA are sending us backwards.
If you're really fighting a cause, some political correctness might be in order. Yes, blind leading blind here. Your last sentence contradicts your first one. It is about representation, and would bet everyone here has encountered someone online who they wouldn't want to see as a representative of the autistic spectrum. Your views are no doubt yours, but if you layed off the offensive attacks someone might hear the rest of what you're saying. Most of the people you have been fighting with here have stated sexuality and ASD are two different things. Isn't that what you're saying? You think they should be separate? You don't want them mutually represented? Maybe the point was missed yesterday on this end.
That is one point yes. But I also think the AS cause has a far greater legitimacy, along with all disabled rights. It needs to be ranked rightfully as a result.
As for political correctness, no one has a right not be offended. It is the weak majority standing up for their apparent right here which also happens to be a problem. People attempting to use such a right should be punished for doing so.
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
I am not in a position to reveal my hand at this stage - largely because the situation is quite serious. Though I am happy to vaguely outline to sensible people via PM what I am doing and what is going down at the minute.
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
Sorry, thinking in classes?
British old style?
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
I am not in a position to reveal my hand at this stage - largely because the situation is quite serious. Though I am happy to vaguely outline to sensible people via PM what I am doing and what is going down at the minute.
Pray, do humour my curiosity, how many people do you consider to be sensible on I2, and worthy of your unveiling a bit more of the serious things that are going to be?
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
Sorry, thinking in classes?
British old style?
The class system is alive and kicking in this country. Anyone who says it has died off is lying, frankly...
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
Sorry, thinking in classes?
British old style?
The class system is alive and kicking in this country. Anyone who says it has died off is lying, frankly...
I'm not British, I don't understand the subtleties of your society.
Of course there are groups here, and there is stigmatising here, because of all kinds of things, also historical things, but we don't have the British class system. And that system does go beyond my comprehension indeed. Still, can't see how the main ideas of you make sense, in any country.
Oh, and maybe it is needed to work with the class-system for politicians, don't know. But, what you work with, is also what you keep alive. So, do you want the class system to exist?
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As for political correctness, no one has a right not be offended. It is the weak majority standing up for their apparent right here which also happens to be a problem. People attempting to use such a right should be punished for doing so.
The bolded part in the first sentence is so confusing, it makes it impossible to comment on the second sentence since they seem to be related. Did you intend the double negative and mean for that to be tricky, or is it typograpical error? Don't take that as sarcasm; am stumped and it's bothersome. The third sentence sounds like some hateful stuff, but also seems connected to the tricky part.
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
Sorry, thinking in classes?
British old style?
The class system is alive and kicking in this country. Anyone who says it has died off is lying, frankly...
I'm not British, I don't understand the subtleties of your society.
Of course there are groups here, and there is stigmatising here, because of all kinds of things, also historical things, but we don't have the British class system. And that system does go beyond my comprehension indeed. Still, can't see how the main ideas of you make sense, in any country.
Think trains basically. You have 1st class where you get a plush seat and table service, 2nd class where you might have to stand up and 3rd class when you are hanging on outside the carraiges.
Oh, and maybe it is needed to work with the class-system for politicians, don't know. But, what you work with, is also what you keep alive. So, do you want the class system to exist?
Of course not - I am socialist.
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As for political correctness, no one has a right not be offended. It is the weak majority standing up for their apparent right here which also happens to be a problem. People attempting to use such a right should be punished for doing so.
The bolded part in the first sentence is so confusing, it makes it impossible to comment on the second sentence since they seem to be related. Did you intend the double negative and mean for that to be tricky, or is it typograpical error? Don't take that as sarcasm; am stumped and it's bothersome. The third sentence sounds like some hateful stuff, but also seems connected to the tricky part.
No the wording is delibrate - to phrase it better, I believe right X should not exist, where right X happens to be freedom from being offended. Its not hateful stuff. Its people trying to undermine proper debate on evidence.
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
Its not contrary. But do try and actually show the lack of logic in my argument. Indeed find a case in this discussion where I have contradicted facts proven by the scientific method, which is a reasonable benchmark for proving me illogical. Rather than me merely going against other peoples unproved presumptions, which they are then treating as if they are sancrosanct fact.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
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I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
Tried adding the 'to' and it still gummed up the works, but the rewording helped. The gears seem to be spinning slow today, so maybe should opt out until another time.
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
So do you propose that only one aspie, or one type of aspie, be permitted to represent the cause in public? If so, what qualifications would he/she/they have to have (other than, I presume, not being openly gay, bi or transgendered)?
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You cannot wake up one morning and decide that your arbitary group, united by an arbitrary and pointless decision that you have taken, suddenly have a special set of rights. Where do they come from? Why your arbitary group - as opposed to another group with a different arbitrary belief.
Where does Autism come from? Why choose it instead of something else?
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I believe right X should not exist, where right X happens to be freedom from being offended.
Oh, absolutely. Delicate sensitivities should not obstruct reasoned debate. "Let a hundred flowers bloom; a hundred schools of thought contend." Set aside emotion, weigh all the available evidence, then draw one's own conclusions — in that order. Too many are unwilling to examine information which contradicts long-held personal belief; this is an error.
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
I am not in a position to reveal my hand at this stage - largely because the situation is quite serious. Though I am happy to vaguely outline to sensible people via PM what I am doing and what is going down at the minute.
The mystery, the mystery... :GA:
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
I am not in a position to reveal my hand at this stage - largely because the situation is quite serious. Though I am happy to vaguely outline to sensible people via PM what I am doing and what is going down at the minute.
You're a liar. Either prove your case and shut the fuck up. Isn't that the point of Intensity?
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[...]at the end of the day it will be understood, that he simply did nothing.
Yeah...What does he do? He claims this 'cause' and the 'work' he's doing, but has he ever said what that actually entails?
I am not in a position to reveal my hand at this stage - largely because the situation is quite serious. Though I am happy to vaguely outline to sensible people via PM what I am doing and what is going down at the minute.
The mystery, the mystery... :GA:
It all is a cunning plan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoafAdcDq8
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Well, considering that ordinary people without AS can be transgendered too, I doubt a significant correlation with AS would be made, if at all. However the risk is there because the media is known to distort information to suit their own agendas for ratings. But even then, this potential correlation problem can be eliminated when multiple advocates are involved in the process. If each one is distinctively different from the other to show diversity, then the problem is solved.
So technically I see no issue.
Multiple advocates and the like sound like a recipe for becoming a second class citizen, not a first class one. Not exactly useful to the stronger of us who are not content to be second class citizens. If we are to win on that one, we need a strong movement and a clear message. But more importantly, we need the self-respect that some here seem to lack...
Sorry, thinking in classes?
British old style?
The class system is alive and kicking in this country. Anyone who says it has died off is lying, frankly...
I'm not British, I don't understand the subtleties of your society.
Of course there are groups here, and there is stigmatising here, because of all kinds of things, also historical things, but we don't have the British class system. And that system does go beyond my comprehension indeed. Still, can't see how the main ideas of you make sense, in any country.
Think trains basically. You have 1st class where you get a plush seat and table service, 2nd class where you might have to stand up and 3rd class when you are hanging on outside the carraiges.
Oh, and maybe it is needed to work with the class-system for politicians, don't know. But, what you work with, is also what you keep alive. So, do you want the class system to exist?
Of course not - I am socialist.
What amazes me is that you use "first" and "second" instead of other words. Seems you are not only categorising here, but also giving a judgement on what is better and what not.
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
But, if you want to represent people, it is important to not make that distinction. Certainly not in the group of people you claim to represent, or who you want the vote from.
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
But, if you want to represent people, it is important to not make that distinction. Certainly not in the group of people you claim to represent, or who you want the vote from.
A politician would try to act like such classes do not exist when trying to get elected to represent. They would know deep down that such things will always exist, just never admit it to the public.
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
But, if you want to represent people, it is important to not make that distinction. Certainly not in the group of people you claim to represent, or who you want the vote from.
A politician would try to act like such classes do not exist when trying to get elected to represent. They would know deep down that such things will always exist, just never admit it to the public.
A politician should, ideally, be able to name the differences and address them (wealth, education, health, violence etc) without making it about a better type of people and lesser sorts of people. Not only in the words the politician uses, also in the thoughts the politician has.
That's ideally, I know. In practice, politicians back away from naming the differences, or do give a (hidden) judgement on the quality of the people.
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
But, if you want to represent people, it is important to not make that distinction. Certainly not in the group of people you claim to represent, or who you want the vote from.
There is a difference between stating the fact that society treats people as certain classes (in which case they exist) and the belief that they should not exist. How can you solve the problem by sweeping it under the carpet?
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The world already makes those judgments. Society does it automatically. It reduces people to second class citizens, just based on how they act, look, talk, etc.
But, if you want to represent people, it is important to not make that distinction. Certainly not in the group of people you claim to represent, or who you want the vote from.
There is a difference between stating the fact that society treats people as certain classes (in which case they exist) and the belief that they should not exist. How can you solve the problem by sweeping it under the carpet?
Think I answered that in the post above yours. I agree with you there, I think.
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
Its not contrary. But do try and actually show the lack of logic in my argument. Indeed find a case in this discussion where I have contradicted facts proven by the scientific method, which is a reasonable benchmark for proving me illogical. Rather than me merely going against other peoples unproved presumptions, which they are then treating as if they are sancrosanct fact.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
Sleepy Dragon already did.
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
Its not contrary. But do try and actually show the lack of logic in my argument. Indeed find a case in this discussion where I have contradicted facts proven by the scientific method, which is a reasonable benchmark for proving me illogical. Rather than me merely going against other peoples unproved presumptions, which they are then treating as if they are sancrosanct fact.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
Sleepy Dragon already did.
Not at all - show me. I mean by the scientific method, not by platitude.
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
Its not contrary. But do try and actually show the lack of logic in my argument. Indeed find a case in this discussion where I have contradicted facts proven by the scientific method, which is a reasonable benchmark for proving me illogical. Rather than me merely going against other peoples unproved presumptions, which they are then treating as if they are sancrosanct fact.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
Sleepy Dragon already did.
Not at all - show me. I mean by the scientific method, not by platitude.
You aren't saying scientifically provable things in the first place, Hadron. Please tell me one single thing you have said in this entire thread that is.
You are just putting GA down for being transgendered and also having an ASD because you fear him gaining publicity and affecting your secret plans of, among other things, having men with ASDs storm sperm donation clinics to give sperm to infertile couples without disclosing their ASD.
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...among other things, having men with ASDs storm sperm donation clinics to give sperm to infertile couples without disclosing their ASD.
:lol:
i forgot about that one
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Gotta spread that Aspergers' around!
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Hadron often takes a contrary view of things against all logic, so it may be impossible to really make sense of it in some cases.
Its not contrary. But do try and actually show the lack of logic in my argument. Indeed find a case in this discussion where I have contradicted facts proven by the scientific method, which is a reasonable benchmark for proving me illogical. Rather than me merely going against other peoples unproved presumptions, which they are then treating as if they are sancrosanct fact.
I think in the bolded sentence he meant to say that no one has a right not to be offended, though.
True, being very late I dropped a word accidentally.
Sleepy Dragon already did.
Not at all - show me. I mean by the scientific method, not by platitude.
You aren't saying scientifically provable things in the first place, Hadron. Please tell me one single thing you have said in this entire thread that is.
In which case - how can I have "gone against all logic". Explain that, will you...
You are just putting GA down for being transgendered and also having an ASD because you fear him gaining publicity and affecting your secret plans of, among other things, having men with ASDs storm sperm donation clinics to give sperm to infertile couples without disclosing their ASD.
I am putting him down for being a damaging fool, nothing else. As for the sperm donation, it can be done openly more or less...
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
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what kind of legitimacy does she need to prove? you're the one claiming to know what's best for us all (with your aspie cause and all that)
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what kind of legitimacy does she need to prove? you're the one claiming to know what's best for us all (with your aspie cause and all that)
Like pretty much every claim he has made for transgenderism. His argument is purely belief based. Not an inkling of evidence.
As for the cause - I would say it is very mainstream.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
I think he is going to spend a lot of time and money in a misguided attempt to become a legitimate woman. All that proves to me is that he is insane haha.
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what the hell does someone need to prove about being transgendered?
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
I think he is going to spend a lot of time and money in a misguided attempt to become a legitimate woman. All that proves to me is that he is insane haha.
Which is my concern of any association with transgenderism with AS. We have a hard enough persuading people of our sanity, without people delibrately trying to show themselves to be insane.
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what kind of legitimacy does she need to prove? you're the one claiming to know what's best for us all (with your aspie cause and all that)
Like evidencing pretty much any point in his argument. Its weaker than a religious sermon at the minute, proofwise.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
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hardon i think a lot of us don't like the fact that people might associate our AS with people like you
works both ways you know. at least GA has the guts to be open about beig trans. can't say the same about you and your AS
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
The AS people I meet in meatspace are not that different from the AS people I meet online.
And the people I know off-line (with confirmed dx) come in various ways. From car-washer, to teacher, to environmental specialist. I don't think I could sell the ideas of yours to any off them. For as far as you have been clear on them, that is.
Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology?
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hardon i think a lot of us don't like the fact that people might associate our AS with people like you
works both ways you know. at least GA has the guts to be open about beig trans. can't say the same about you and your AS
If I started hallucinating that I had, say horns on my head and then went around telling the world about it, I think it would be called stupidity or insanity. Certainly not couragous in any respect. How is GA's line any different to that one. Apart from having a PC correct bandwagon attached to it, of course.
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is GA claiming to have strange physical abnormalities that are invisible to everyone else?
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
The AS people I meet in meatspace are not that different from the AS people I meet online.
And the people I know off-line (with confirmed dx) come in various ways. From car-washer, to teacher, to environmental specialist. I don't think I could sell the ideas of yours to any off them. For as far as you have been clear on them, that is.
Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology?
Most the people that I meet with AS agree with me - and would far rather have someone who can get things going forward like myself respresent them, than the likes of GA. I think if you look at the thread on Duncs Drivel, pretty much none of them agree with GA. P managed to even put together a funny video.
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is GA claiming to have strange physical abnormalities that are invisible to everyone else?
Certainly he is. Though fill in my example with hallucinating that I am say black and try again.
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
The AS people I meet in meatspace are not that different from the AS people I meet online.
And the people I know off-line (with confirmed dx) come in various ways. From car-washer, to teacher, to environmental specialist. I don't think I could sell the ideas of yours to any off them. For as far as you have been clear on them, that is.
Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology?
OK, I mixed up threads, this should be in the one about your ideas and plans, (but that is partly discussed here too). This post was not on how aspies would see GA. I don't know how people off-line would react on GA, because they don't know him.
I do know that I have not heard remarks from them about aspies having to be straight and stuff to be real aspies.
The aspies on Duncsdrivel are online.
So asking you this again: "Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology? "
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Why, then, did you flickpass GA's callout in this online discussion forum to a thread on a different online discussion forum, one which is (presumably) no more authoritative than this or any other site?
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Yeah, this whole thing has branched in so many directions, even off the site, and may contain history beyond personal knowledge. Hard to understand today and seem to be without mood to anyway.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
So he's Autism Speaks.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Why, then, did you flickpass GA's callout in this online discussion forum to a thread on a different online discussion forum, one which is (presumably) no more authoritative than this or any other site?
I felt they offered a more balanced discussion on it - moreover it proved my point that a few people agree with me, who also happen to have AS.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
So he's Autism Speaks.
Autism Speaks promote a better impression of Autism than you do.
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I felt they offered a more balanced discussion on it - moreover it proved my point that a few people agree with me, who also happen to have AS.
That's a thread making fun of a picture, and an arguement about whether or not it is okay to make fun of people's pictures, and some other stuff about youtube and chess bets or something, all ending in a nice little group hug of some sort. Seriously, see no connection at all.
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I felt they offered a more balanced discussion on it - moreover it proved my point that a few people agree with me, who also happen to have AS.
That's a thread making fun of a picture, and an arguement about whether or not it is okay to make fun of people's pictures, and some other stuff about youtube and chess bets or something, all ending in a nice little group hug of some sort. Seriously, see no connection at all.
There are a few posts discussing his transgenderism if you move through it carefully.
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A balanced discussion of gender identity? Hardly. There were ridicule and character assassination directed against an individual, and a few voices of caution going, "That isn't nice."
But that is beside the point, really. You say that the Drivel thread proves that a few people agree with you. Which people? Which statements in particular? Don't be so coy; tell us directly: "I agree with [A, B and C] that [D]." Otherwise, linking to that discussion is meaningless. It allows you, later on, to say, "Those weren't my words; that was Peaguy and some other people doing their thing. Nothing to do with me. I didn't instigate it."
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So asking you this again: "Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology? "
I'll just keep asking Hadron.
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You keep saying GA is representing people with AS. How?
No more than any other Aspie.
He is being himself. He is not trying to start a following or revolution and as far as I know is not part of a political endeavour. So is he representing people with AS or is he being himself?
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You keep saying GA is representing people with AS. How?
No more than any other Aspie.
He is being himself. He is not trying to start a following or revolution and as far as I know is not part of a political endeavour. So is he representing people with AS or is he being himself?
Come on, being a person of your own is sooooo overrated. Think of the big goal, freedom for pedigree aspies.
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The idea is completely right. It's illegal to discriminate people because of race, gender, religion or sexuality. It's however not illegal - at least not in practice - to treat Autie/Aspie people like shit. We could however have an Autie/Aspie right movement without being obedient Uncle Toms.
I agree with Hadron's ideas, but I don't believe in his methods of realizing them. I'm not really sure he does himself. :-\
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The idea is completely right. It's illegal to discriminate people because of race, gender, religion or sexuality. It's however not illegal - at least not in practice - to treat Autie/Aspie people like shit. We could however have an Autie/Aspie right movement without being obedient Uncle Toms.
I agree with Hadron's ideas, but I don't believe in his methods of realizing them. I'm not really sure he does himself. :-\
What happened here? You kinda made a bit of sense. I need to lay down.
:plus:
Whatever meds you are on, keep taking them
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
Yes
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You keep saying GA is representing people with AS. How?
No more than any other Aspie.
He is being himself. He is not trying to start a following or revolution and as far as I know is not part of a political endeavour. So is he representing people with AS or is he being himself?
That's the main objection I have with Hadron's reasoning. I feel the accountability actually lies with society's typical black and white perception of reality. Unless GA was going out of his way to proclaim a correlation between transgenderism and Autism, it's not his fault for how society judges him and how they draw conclusions.
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
The need of quite some support people to understand from within, via empathy is problematic indeed.
There is one who keeps telling me: "I can imagine that such and such is happening in your head right now and that you feel.....etc. etc." She really means well, but keeps coming up with totally of the mark assumptions. Tiring. She does listen to me though, and reacts on that OK. But it will not stick in her mind, because it is beyond her understanding, just as much as her thinking is beyond mine.
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
The need of quite some support people to understand from within, via empathy is problematic indeed.
There is one who keeps telling me: "I can imagine that such and such is happening in your head right now and that you feel.....etc. etc." She really means well, but keeps coming up with totally of the mark assumptions. Tiring. She does listen to me though, and reacts on that OK. But it will not stick in her mind, because it is beyond her understanding, just as much as her thinking is beyond mine.
Isn't there that big fuck off magnet that they can fire at your brain which turns off a part of it and simulate autism and your ass is Rain Maned? Maybe we need to do that to support people.
Fuck I need some sort of support person just so I have someone other than my wife to whinge to every week and go all emo on.
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The one I see the most is really good.
First thing we agreed on was that we don't understand eachother, and with that as a apriori, she helps me with the stuff I have problems with. She lets me be if I start stimming, no need for her to try to comfort that, she knows it is what helps me get through stuff I hate. So, she just goes on with it.
Now that I'm used to her, I've not been stimming with her around for a very long time. But if I would, she would not be acting weird or so.
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Hello guests, enjoying the drama? :toporly:
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The one I see the most is really good.
First thing we agreed on was that we don't understand eachother, and with that as a apriori, she helps me with the stuff I have problems with. She lets me be if I start stimming, no need for her to try to comfort that, she knows it is what helps me get through stuff I hate. So, she just goes on with it.
Now that I'm used to her, I've not been stimming with her around for a very long time. But if I would, she would not be acting weird or so.
I used to see someone in the last place we lived. She was from a mental health place, but they let me access it. She was the one who brought up the idea that I might be AS in the first place.
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
Yes
Apparently it's selfish to be inflexible and live your life your way ::)
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
Exactly. In theory...
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I don't think NTs are trying to oppress us into being like them out of malice, it's more out of ignorance. They can't understand why we want to be the way we are, they don't understand how much it is tied into our identity. They probably think we are being depressed or just grumpy when we refuse them and their way of life and thinking.
To me that is the toughest hurdle in asserting our rights in society. It would be nice if they could take our word and just accept it and us, but they feel they need to understand. They want to feel they are helping, and their way is to to make us like them. They think that is what everyone should want.
No wonder a lot of us get angry at them.
Yes
Apparently it's selfish to be inflexible and live your life your way ::)
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke! :zoinks:
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
No - because that just adds to the social expecations that we are expected to comply with. It is another piece of hassle to get around.
Freedom is finite, I would rather have more important freedoms. Like for example, right to a job, right to education, right to respect. You know, the fundementals we haven't quite got.
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
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I felt they offered a more balanced discussion on it - moreover it proved my point that a few people agree with me, who also happen to have AS.
That's a thread making fun of a picture, and an arguement about whether or not it is okay to make fun of people's pictures, and some other stuff about youtube and chess bets or something, all ending in a nice little group hug of some sort. Seriously, see no connection at all.
There are a few posts discussing his transgenderism if you move through it carefully.
Yes there are, but aren't those points much the same as the ones made about the picture? The point being, if someone exposes their true identity and personal aspects of their life then they leave their self exposed to mockery. That's very true. Who could argue that? The only possible extension which could be added to that would concern the hypocrisy of those who seek to mock others while maintaining their own anonymity. This seems not to be the case of the person who started that thread.
Made a serious attempt to understand, but posting that link as an example of those who agree with you put a hurt on the interest level.
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
But your offline AS pals are?
:bssign:
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Your lack of logic means that you can't prove anything. Next.
GA is the one who needs to prove legitimacy, not me.
You don't see it as a problem that nobody considers your opinions to be legit?
Contempt of the group he claims to represent.
Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
The AS people I meet in meatspace are not that different from the AS people I meet online.
And the people I know off-line (with confirmed dx) come in various ways. From car-washer, to teacher, to environmental specialist. I don't think I could sell the ideas of yours to any off them. For as far as you have been clear on them, that is.
Are the people with AS that you know off-line representing all kinds of social layers in the UK? Or do they all share your background, your way of using language and your basic ideas on anthropology?
Most the people that I meet with AS agree with me - and would far rather have someone who can get things going forward like myself respresent them, than the likes of GA. I think if you look at the thread on Duncs Drivel, pretty much none of them agree with GA. P managed to even put together a funny video.
Proving what? Pretty much no-one agrees with you here. Should Dunc's place have special status on teh interwebs?
Here's the thing, Hadron, and I don't think I can put it clearer than this: you do not represent me. I'd NEVER approve of you representing me because you come off as a fake, a phoney, a fraud. Someone who talks a lot but delivers nothing. A lot of the bs you post has the feel of a kid who wants to impress his surroundings but because there isn't a lot IRL to show, he fills in what is missing.
GA, on the other hand, comes off as honest and so is off to a good start. I think that whatever makes him and those around him the happiest is the way to go, and I hope there is a happy ending somewhere for those involved. I think he is misguided and I feel sorry for Renaeden, but I also think it takes a lot of guts to be as open about this as GA is.
So I'd rather have him represent "us" than you, because he is honest and I believe he'd have the basic respect for diversity.
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
No - because that just adds to the social expecations that we are expected to comply with. It is another piece of hassle to get around.
Freedom is finite, I would rather have more important freedoms. Like for example, right to a job, right to education, right to respect. You know, the fundementals we haven't quite got.
As long as you decide the important freedoms, right?
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
No - because that just adds to the social expecations that we are expected to comply with. It is another piece of hassle to get around.
Freedom is finite, I would rather have more important freedoms. Like for example, right to a job, right to education, right to respect. You know, the fundementals we haven't quite got.
For lots of people who are faceblind, the diversity in dressing and behaviour is only helpful.
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
I had completely forgotten that to Hadron AS is not a disability (aside from society induced problems).
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
I had completely forgotten that to Hadron AS is not a disability (aside from society induced problems).
I agree with him on that, though. 90% of our "problems" are caused by NTs trying to "help" us by making us like them.
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i agree, but it works both ways
just as autistic people shouldnt be expected to be exactly like NTs (whatever that entails), gay people shouldnt be expected to live as straight people
people should be free to be themselves as long as they're not harming anyone else.
if people accepted that more, then it'd be a lot easier for ALL groups, including autistic people
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
The obstacles should not be there - it should be no more difficult for us to get into places than it should be for anyone else. This is something that collectively we could do something about, if only some people would fight the more sensible battles.
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
LGBT people are espically problematic in this - they have added a whole new set for no good reason whatsoever. People who create uncessary social expecations or enforce them need to be punished for doing so, it is the way forward.
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
Find me a gay person in the UK being forced to do this.
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GA isn't claiming to be physically female...
Oh - so if I decided tomorrow to copy black culture, I would not be derided? And rightly so.
shouldn't someone be able to act/dress however they want (assuming it's not harming anyone else)?
No - because that just adds to the social expecations that we are expected to comply with. It is another piece of hassle to get around.
Freedom is finite, I would rather have more important freedoms. Like for example, right to a job, right to education, right to respect. You know, the fundementals we haven't quite got.
For lots of people who are faceblind, the diversity in dressing and behaviour is only helpful.
Not really, people change clothes. Gait works on the other hand as a trick around this (asides in five/ten years I doubt faceblindness would need anything more than a pair of contacts)
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
I had completely forgotten that to Hadron AS is not a disability (aside from society induced problems).
I have never said it wasn't one. But I hope in the future to be saying otherwise.
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
The obstacles should not be there - it should be no more difficult for us to get into places than it should be for anyone else. This is something that collectively we could do something about, if only some people would fight the more sensible battles.
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
LGBT people are espically problematic in this - they have added a whole new set for no good reason whatsoever. People who create uncessary social expecations or enforce them need to be punished for doing so, it is the way forward.
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
Find me a gay person in the UK being forced to do this.
idiot
you are missing the point again
that is what YOU are expecting gay people to do - how is that not as bad as what you're complaining happens to you?
the obstacles should not be there? well sorry mate, this is real life. AS is a disability. a disability you can work around and overcome in some situations, yes. but a disability nevertheless
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Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Oh, pardon me- I hadn't realized a bunch of people from the internet agreed with you.
:duh:
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since when did we not have the right to a job, eductaion etc?
yes we experience more problems and have more obstacles to overcome to get there, but tough shit - AS is a disability whether you like it or not. more should be done to help autistic people get jobs etc, yeah. but it's hardly like there's a law against it. you can't just expect people to leave everything on a plate for you because of your AS - grow up and take some responsibility for these things yourself like other people here do (plenty have jobs and degrees)
The obstacles should not be there - it should be no more difficult for us to get into places than it should be for anyone else. This is something that collectively we could do something about, if only some people would fight the more sensible battles.
as for that crap about giving us more social expectations... again, tough shit. it's hardly just gay people and trans people who are doing that. EVERYONE in society contributes to this kinda thing. again, that's just part of the problem with having AS. more should be done to help, yes. but you can't fucking expect everyone else to make your life perfect just for you
LGBT people are espically problematic in this - they have added a whole new set for no good reason whatsoever. People who create uncessary social expecations or enforce them need to be punished for doing so, it is the way forward.
how is your situation any worse than, say, a gay man being forced to live his life alone or with a women? (which is what you're expecting them to do)
Find me a gay person in the UK being forced to do this.
idiot
you are missing the point again
that is what YOU are expecting gay people to do - how is that not as bad as what you're complaining happens to you?
All they have to do is not say that they are gay in interview. Not at all difficult. Hiding AS in an interview on the other hand - very difficult.
the obstacles should not be there? well sorry mate, this is real life. AS is a disability. a disability you can work around and overcome in some situations, yes. but a disability nevertheless
I recognise the reality - it doesn't mean that it cannot or should not be changed. The problem is the lack of self-respect among our lot, something that if resolved will allow for the rest of the problem to be solved.
On the other hand, you don't even recognise the fact of your own biology. Who is not being realistic here?
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Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Oh, pardon me- I hadn't realized a bunch of people from the internet agreed with you.
:duh:
I still like to know how diverse the group of aspies is that he knows offline.
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On the other hand, you don't even recognise the fact of your own biology. Who is not being realistic here?
don't I?
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Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Oh, pardon me- I hadn't realized a bunch of people from the internet agreed with you.
:duh:
I still like to know how diverse the group of aspies is that he knows offline.
The fact that it's a group automatically makes it a biased sample. If it's a group of aspies at a college, a thousand times moreso.
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Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Oh, pardon me- I hadn't realized a bunch of people from the internet agreed with you.
:duh:
I still like to know how diverse the group of aspies is that he knows offline.
The fact that it's a group automatically makes it a biased sample. If it's a group of aspies at a college, a thousand times moreso.
A group of aspies at a collage, from similar backgrounds and schooling/upbringing, will multiply it a hundred times upon that.
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Hardly - most people with AS off the internet share my view on this. I2 or any other online site is hardly representative of people with AS, by any margin.
Oh, pardon me- I hadn't realized a bunch of people from the internet agreed with you.
:duh:
I still like to know how diverse the group of aspies is that he knows offline.
The fact that it's a group automatically makes it a biased sample. If it's a group of aspies at a college, a thousand times moreso.
I know people well outside college - I know most NAS councillors for instance. My sample is very wide.
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::sigh::
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hardon is friends with Elvis AND Jesus
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:agreed:
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hardon is friends with Elvis AND Jesus
I thought Elvis WAS Jesus. :P