INTENSITY²
Start here => What is Intensity²? => Topic started by: Calandale on February 12, 2008, 12:32:21 AM
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Since Callaway has chosen to attack me,
in regards to my likely NPD, I think it
behooves me to put forth the DSM
criteria, along with why I think I qualify.
It's a much less ugly picture than the
one which she paints. Of course, that
is to be expected, since she seems to
believe in fighting with any available weapon,
whether 'tis an honorable choice or not.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#DSM_Criteria
DSM Criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]
So, the trick is finding five of these
which I fit. Starts out easy enough.
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
Hell yes. What is there, besides me, that I
am even close to as certain of? Anyone without,
strikes me as deluded.
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brillance, beauty, or ideal love
Again, yes. These are the very things that can
barely make living worthwhile.
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
I am. Not a matter of mere belief. IF I exist,
obviously I'm special. Again, those who don't
answer positive for this are not reasonable.
4. requires excessive admiration
Yes. Not much to say here. I have terribly low
self esteem, and can really do require this.
Ok. That's four for four. Pretty good eh?
But, now it gets trickier. None of these
are as clear, but I do believe I fit into one,
though 'tis not positive.
5. has a sense of entitlement
Well, who doesn't? If your life is cut short, doesn't
that feel unfair? Isn't this merely a matter of seeking
fairness and justice? I think I come close - but it's shaky.
6. is interpersonally exploitative
Not particularly. Indeed, my code of honor makes
it pretty damned hard. My situation with my wife
really underlines this - where I was hurting both of
us (I didn't realize her though), in order to help
make a better future. I SHOULD have taken what
I wanted, as I found 'twas what she wanted. I'm
learning.
7. lacks empathy
Obviously not. I couldn't have acted without empathy.
I would walk through GCS and be brought to tears by
the misery. Indeed, I think I have TOO MUCH empathy.
I feel others' pain, and am wracked by it. Tried to seal
this off, at one point. It was very liberating to allow it
back.
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
Runs close to the entitlement issue. Again, I'm in a gray area here.
Because, my sense of fairness comes into play. But, now that it
looks like I'm going to be rewarded far too well for my own talents,
I rather feel that it's unfair to others. So, this is really a tough sell.
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
But look what we find, hiding at the end. :zoinks:
Not as strongly as the first four, but yeah. Even
when entirely undeserved, I act this way.
But you see, this isn't the picture of some user of
others. It's that of someone who retreats into
fantasy worlds, and dreams of better lives for
himself. It's not that of someone who is tearing
others down, but of someone who is never good
enough, to meet his own demands. Never good
enough to earn the praise that he desires.
The little rushes, like the dancing, or the acting,
or being a hell of a good coder, or being one
of the better mathematical minds in my department,
NONE of this was enough. Indeed, I can't imagine
what could be enough. Even my fantasies fall short.
Even godhood does.
This is only posted here, because I was prevented elsewhere,
for whatever reason.
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This is only posted here, because I was prevented elsewhere,
for whatever reason.
That's weird, Calandale. When you set the permissions for Postwhore Beyond the Pale, did you set any board-specific ones?
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You met 5 of the criteria...
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This is only posted here, because I was prevented elsewhere,
for whatever reason.
That's weird, Calandale. When you set the permissions for Postwhore Beyond the Pale, did you set any board-specific ones?
I shouldn't have. The only screwed up thing was AS Advocacy.
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Can't be my doing, because I posted new topics in political pundits
today. My first assumption was (of course) that someone fucked
with the settings, but that seemed a bit too trite for anyone
here. I'm wondering if ANYONE can.
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You met 5 of the criteria...
Your point being? This is WHY I claim to be NPD.
But, like AS, not everyone is exactly the same. I'm
sure that there are very manipulative people, with
the condition. Indeed, one could see how con artists
might well fit into some of the requirements. I rather
think my PE was of that ilk.
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PE?
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Psycho Ex. :zoinks:
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Ahhhh
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I don't think there's anything wrong with you, Cal. You're a bit of an attention-hound, but that's what makes you fun. Your self-esteem sucks, but so does most people's. You need to work on that. :police:
My counselor says a certain amount of NPD comes along with AS. She thinks you're hysterically funny btw. I quoted you a couple of times yesterday, and got a :LMAO: She said you were pretty much dead-on. Ever considered being a therapist? You might get through to people better if you have the actual title. :zoinks:
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I don't think there's anything wrong with you, Cal. You're a bit of an attention-hound, but that's what makes you fun. Your self-esteem sucks, but so does most people's. You need to work on that. :police:
I am. Only got what I needed to yesterday, by gambling it.
Which put me into a high and rush - but, now, I'm a bit low
again. If things don't go perfectly (I was hoping for a phone call)
it makes me feel like I don't have absolute control. And without,
I have troubles.
My counselor says a certain amount of NPD comes along with AS.
Yeah, the two are dx'd together.
She thinks you're hysterically funny btw. I quoted you a couple of times yesterday, and got a :LMAO:
Is she cute? Feel free to give her my pictures. :eyebrows:
She said you were pretty much dead-on. Ever considered being a therapist?
Gods no! I know nothing except what I've seen in life.
And I can't help myself. How the fuck would platitudes which
don't work for me, help anyone else? That's actually how I feel
about most of them - they tell you this shit about how to help
yourself, but it probably doesn't work for them even.
You might get through to people better if you have the actual title. :zoinks:
Didn't help my students to understand me. :laugh:
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My counselor isn't too big on platitudes, either. Her parents were both Holocaust survivors, so she doesn't bullshit her patients too much. :laugh: That's why I see her - she's actually helpful because she tells the truth.
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Holocaust survivors? Hmm...so the important
issue is that she's probably at least my age.
Ah well.
But wait - does she have a support system?
Because if not, being able to make her co-dependent
might just be worthwhile.
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I have met a couple holocaust survivors
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Holocaust survivors? Hmm...so the important
issue is that she's probably at least my age.
Ah well.
But wait - does she have a support system?
Because if not, being able to make her co-dependent
might just be worthwhile.
I think that kind of extreme background would make one particularly immune to domestic dramas.
Yeah Cal, she's too old for you! :laugh:
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Guess they don't let you be a therapist,
until you get out of hs. :-\
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My head is firmly planted up my own arse.
I think I have NPD.
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living worthwhile.
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
I am. Not a matter of mere belief. IF I exist,
obviously I'm special. Again, those who don't
answer positive for this are not reasonable.
:indeed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnrt0nKU6jM
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Existing doesn't make someone special
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Hell yes. What is there, besides me, that I
am even close to as certain of? Anyone without,
strikes me as deluded.
More or less requires this. Indeed, HOW could one get 1,
and NOT get 3? So, why are these seen as two separate
criteria?
As the focus of all the perceptions that one has, there
is clearly a special relationship to your own self, no?
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tony blair had a special relationship with george bush
doesn't make either of them special though
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I've not even met either,
which makes them rather
non-special.
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but they exist. so you said they're special
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but they exist. so you said they're special
Well, let's presume that I exist ( I have difficulty
trying to doubt this - so there's something special
about the nature of my existence). Then, their own
existence is indeed true (in some sense) in that I have
some thought of them. Now, they're not as special as
those I've had direct contact with, but the position that
they hold in my perceptions is more so than many others.
Does this help? They ARE special - but less so than those
I love, for example.
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ok cool
your opinion has passed
i will allow you to live
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:orly:
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(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7066/32222230438pi9.gif)
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No thanks. The one is definitely too ugly.
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I scored 2/9.
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I scored 2/9.
Which two?
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1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance.
and
7. lacks empathy.
Actually, I wouldn't answer Yes, for Number1 all the time. But i do have my moments.
Could probably say the same for Number7 come to think of it. My empathy is very selective.
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How can you have 1 and not 3?
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I don't really understand question 3.
But i don't think ideas of specialness and uniqueness are contingent upon delusions of grandeur; although that probably helps.
It depends upon how you define special and unique.
There are many other people with delusions of grandeur; it's hardly a special quality.
But I may consider myself unique because there is only one of me.
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How can you have the delusions of grandeur,
without believing that you are special? Wouldn't
they just be fantasies then?
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How can you have the delusions of grandeur,
without believing that you are special? Wouldn't
they just be fantasies then?
It's not like I choose the delusions; in fact I may be unaware of them for sometime; moreover some people never gain this insight.
Hence there is no need for any belief system.
If you are choosing which delusions to believe, then you are probably quite sane and not deluded at all, merely fantasizing. I don't mean this in a philosophical sense more in terms of medical diagnosis of states such as psychosis and mania.
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So, you have delusions of mediocrity?
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No, I'm merely stating that a belief system of any kind is not necessary for any kind of delusion.
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Seems necessary on both ends. Both the
deluded and the judges.
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Cal, do you think you've ever met the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder? I think I did when I was younger. I was raised by my father, and he admits he has it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
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Seems necessary on both ends. Both the
deluded and the judges.
Probably best not to apply inference of belief systems to delusion. ( Do you see why? )
Although Neuro Linguistic Programming attempts to, it has no success beyond stage hypnotism.
This is why 1 and 3 are not completely dependant.
eg. If your television is giving you 'special' messages, then you may be the best logician in the world, but it's not going to stop the telly from giving you messages even if your belief system is that televisions are not talking to you personally.
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Cal, do you think you've ever met the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder? I think I did when I was younger. I was raised by my father, and he admits he has it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
Probably not. Consider more than I do.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
no.
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
Hmm...I worry a LOT. Don't know if that's planning.
Probably LESS impulsive than most.
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
maybe, at one time.
I was never too aggressive though.
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
no.
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honour financial obligations
I guess.
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Likely.
Again, a close call.
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Probably best not to apply inference of belief systems to delusion. ( Do you see why? )
No. My delusions may well stem from my shaky beliefs. Or the
other way. I can't really tell, since I don't know what is the cause.
But, surely my sensory input is somehow responsible for forming me?
eg. If your television is giving you 'special' messages, then you may be the best logician in the world, but it's not going to stop the telly from giving you messages even if your belief system is that televisions are not talking to you personally.
But, this isn't a delusion of grandeur. If I believe that I am the one, doesn't that
make me 'special'?
am not (from an objective point of view)
the center
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Yeah, the antisocial disorder is a close call for us both. The AS is probably what's kept us from really developing it. :-\
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Yeah, the antisocial disorder is a close call for us both. The AS is probably what's kept us from really developing it. :-\
I don't know. AS seems related, in the sense of reacting. I doubt I'd be
anywhere near as violent, if I hadn't been teased a great deal. The
'irresponsibility' seems directly connected to my problems with dealing
with people.
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Yeah, the antisocial disorder is a close call for us both. The AS is probably what's kept us from really developing it. :-\
I don't know. AS seems related, in the sense of reacting. I doubt I'd be
anywhere near as violent, if I hadn't been teased a great deal. The
'irresponsibility' seems directly connected to my problems with dealing
with people.
Uh-oh. I may be projecting some of my own antisocial-ness onto you. :laugh: Mine came from how I was raised, on top of being bullied. I was encouraged in my reactions, even goaded, tbh.
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Well, at the risk of giving more ammunition to
those who like personal attacks, my father always
seemed very violent. I felt completely impotent
against his power, and a lot of rage built up. Probably
where my actual rebellion came from. The reality is
that he wasn't that violent, but I became so.
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I know what you mean about the rage. After I got diagnosed with AS and my father learned more about it, he apologized to me and said he knew that he'd influenced me in some negative ways. I really admire him for owning up to that, especially considering how he was abused himself as a kid (he never told me this - my grandmother told me).
Cal, do you think all that rage makes you carry around more guilt than the average person, and that burden makes you react to people in a certain way? I know I do. Certain things people do or say set me off, like if I think they're feeling sorry for themselves or for someone else whom I don't feel deserves it. I get furious sometimes, even though I know full well that those people's problems and life situations look much worse than mine. It makes me want to lash out at them, because all I can think is that yeah, they've got bad problems, but they don't have THIS. It seems to me that it'd be easier to live with stuff that's been done to you, rather than live with stuff you've done to others.
Paraphrasing Colette: People generally believe that it is easy to be a "monster." It is even harder than being a saint.
As to giving people ammunition for a personal attack, I don't worry about it much. I've found that I prefer being attacked with the truth than with lies.
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i get pissed off a lot sometimes when people are complaining about their lives or feeling shit about something, when i think they don't have it that bad. but then i feel really bad about that afterwards
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Yeah, I always feel guilty afterwards, too. And that just makes me more frustrated the next time around. My mom is the same way. I think in our case it's because neither of us can vent to people about our own stuff because we feel too guilty about it and we're afraid of being judged, so we get really pissed at people who can.
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I'm like that IRL
I think that's why I vent so much online; I don't tell people anything IRL
Also becuase I always see people complaining about things I used to complain about before Sophie died. And since then, I've realised none of that was even half as bad as I thought it was at the time. So even though it makes me a hypocrite, I want to punch these people sometimes because it's not that fucking bad
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I know what you mean about the rage. After I got diagnosed with AS and my father learned more about it, he apologized to me and said he knew that he'd influenced me in some negative ways. I really admire him for owning up to that, especially considering how he was abused himself as a kid (he never told me this - my grandmother told me).
Lucky. My father still can't even see what he does.
Hell, I remember him hitting me, at a time when I was
strong enough to probably have a good shot at him, and
I just COULDN'T.
Cal, do you think all that rage makes you carry around more guilt than the average person, and that burden makes you react to people in a certain way? I know I do. Certain things people do or say set me off, like if I think they're feeling sorry for themselves or for someone else whom I don't feel deserves it. I get furious sometimes, even though I know full well that those people's problems and life situations look much worse than mine. It makes me want to lash out at them, because all I can think is that yeah, they've got bad problems, but they don't have THIS. It seems to me that it'd be easier to live with stuff that's been done to you, rather than live with stuff you've done to others.
I don't know. I don't really feel too guilty about things that
most would see as the worst. For example, in the first rape
of my PE, the only issue I feel guilty about was forcing her
away from me, after. Rather than consoling her. I was so
disgusted with myself, that I ignored what she was feeling.
And, that was the real betrayal to her.
Paraphrasing Colette: People generally believe that it is easy to be a "monster." It is even harder than being a saint.
Never tried sainthood. I don't think I'm suited for it.
As to giving people ammunition for a personal attack, I don't worry about it much. I've found that I prefer being attacked with the truth than with lies.
Not really certain whether they hurt, either way.
Really, 'twas just an opportunity to cast one of
my barbs.
i get pissed off a lot sometimes when people are complaining about their lives or feeling shit about something, when i think they don't have it that bad. but then i feel really bad about that afterwards
I don't really. I just get bored usually. And upset that
they're not doing much. I KNOW that I don't have
it bad. Never really have.
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Probably best not to apply inference of belief systems to delusion. ( Do you see why? )
No. My delusions may well stem from my shaky beliefs. Or the
other way. I can't really tell, since I don't know what is the cause.
But, surely my sensory input is somehow responsible for forming me?
If that is the case, then they are probably not examples of mania, psychosis or schizoid spectrum disorder.
ie. not delusions in the medical sense.
Maybe existential angst.
If your delusions are preventing you from functioning, I would recommend seeing a doctor.
eg. If your television is giving you 'special' messages, then you may be the best logician in the world, but it's not going to stop the telly from giving you messages even if your belief system is that televisions are not talking to you personally.
But, this isn't a delusion of grandeur. If I believe that I am the one, doesn't that
make me 'special'?
am not (from an objective point of view)
the center
It's a textbook example of delusion of grandeur.
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Hmm...I figured that psychotic delusions were
indeed delusions. Damned psychiatrists shouldn't
use the same word, if they don't mean it.
And yes, they are of that nature.
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i like you alot also. i just think an argument doesnt need to arise over obvious things. maybe my minds too simple though :P
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Hmm...I figured that psychotic delusions were
indeed delusions. Damned psychiatrists shouldn't
use the same word, if they don't mean it.
And yes, they are of that nature.
Ask for a refund.
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i like you alot also. i just think an argument doesnt need to arise over obvious things. maybe my minds too simple though :P
What is obvious? I've not seen anything
that I've argued about which was clearly
so. Even the vote FOR totalitarianism
of the fiat poll, or dunc's killing of the
WC don't strike me as issues where
I was clearly in the right. And I certainly
wouldn't argue from a position which I
knew was wrong.
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Ask for a refund.
For what? :laugh:
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i like you alot also. i just think an argument doesnt need to arise over obvious things. maybe my minds too simple though :P
What is obvious?
mans existance in the universe. lets talk about it :laugh:
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i like you alot also. i just think an argument doesnt need to arise over obvious things. maybe my minds too simple though :P
What is obvious?
mans existance in the universe. lets talk about it :laugh:
I'm convinced of neither of the presupposed conditions.
Man and universe.
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i love, respect and understand me. now you are not alone.
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i love, respect and understand me. now you are not alone.
I don't do those things.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
And get really really drunk.
Like comatose.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
And get really really drunk.
Like comatose.
are you drunk now, fella?
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
And get really really drunk.
Like comatose.
are you drunk now, fella?
No. Just dead tired.
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
And get really really drunk.
Like comatose.
are you drunk now, fella?
No. Just dead tired.
would you say that you were so tired that you are near comatose, sailor?
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you should. it's great for the self confidence.
You're not my type.
i can be. if YOU play your cards right.
And get really really drunk.
Like comatose.
are you drunk now, fella?
No. Just dead tired.
would you say that you were so tired that you are near comatose, sailor?
Don't tell me you like sea men now.
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you didn't answer the question, big boy.
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you didn't answer the question, big boy.
I might be stretching out naked soon.
And too tired to notice what you have.