Author Topic: Pakistan  (Read 1332 times)

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Offline Peter

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2007, 12:04:48 PM »
What do you guys think will happen in Pakistan now that Benazir Bhotto was assassinated?  It's very unsettling considering it is a nuclear power and has so many fundies
I hope things go well but something tells me a lot of people are going to die in the few months.  Imagine living there
It is where I think Osama Bin Laden went in the week before the US invaded Afghanistan.   Either there or Iran.   Pakistanis hate India too.   They have been showing signs of a face off for a long time.   I do see more death coming, but not just in Pakistan.

Signs of a face-off like the Indo-Pakistani wars of 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999?
It wouldn't surprise me at all.

They've never stopped facing off since they split.
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Offline Alex179

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2007, 12:36:22 PM »
What do you guys think will happen in Pakistan now that Benazir Bhotto was assassinated?  It's very unsettling considering it is a nuclear power and has so many fundies
I hope things go well but something tells me a lot of people are going to die in the few months.  Imagine living there
It is where I think Osama Bin Laden went in the week before the US invaded Afghanistan.   Either there or Iran.   Pakistanis hate India too.   They have been showing signs of a face off for a long time.   I do see more death coming, but not just in Pakistan.

Signs of a face-off like the Indo-Pakistani wars of 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999?
It wouldn't surprise me at all.

They've never stopped facing off since they split.
True, but they have had breaks here and there.   It is like a break for the wars between Lebanon and Israel.   This would make the military efforts of Pakistan more crucial in India probably.   They might pick a fight with the US or another nation, but I doubt they would.
:P   Internets are super serious.

Offline Calandale

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2007, 02:19:24 PM »
Given that they both have nukes now,
one wonders if a war even makes sense.

Offline SovaNu

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2007, 04:11:50 PM »
war never makes sense.
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2007, 04:16:22 PM »
It does, if you look at countries as
children, and land as toys.

Offline SovaNu

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2007, 04:17:41 PM »
i don't. :P
"I think everybody has an asshole component to their personality. It's just a matter of how much you indulge it. Those who do it often form a habit. So like any addiction, you have to learn to overcome it."
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"We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2007, 04:25:21 PM »
Seems to be an apt analogy.
Even defensive wars are bad
for the PEOPLE who should
make up the country. Better
to surrender.

Offline SovaNu

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2007, 04:27:36 PM »
O sweet surrender.
"I think everybody has an asshole component to their personality. It's just a matter of how much you indulge it. Those who do it often form a habit. So like any addiction, you have to learn to overcome it."
~Lord Phlexor

"Sometimes stepping on one's own dick is a memorable learning experience."
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"We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."
~Gkar

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2007, 04:37:17 PM »
They should all surrender to me     :respect:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Calandale

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2007, 04:38:51 PM »
The problem is that people
see fairness as more important
than prosperity.

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2007, 10:56:13 PM »
Islamist crazies might take over, declare nuclear jihad on India and India will nuke Pakistan back to the Stone Age. Also the USA will have a reason to go over the border from Afghanistan into Pakistan's Northwestern Frontier and fight Al Qaeda.

Offline QuirkyCarla

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2007, 11:00:06 PM »

Offline ALLDAYGLOWRANDY

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2007, 02:11:29 PM »
Jessus fuckn christ, I never paid much attention to the news untill now.  Reading all those books, like I used to do when I was younger.  Emotional problems gone now.

Idiots, everyone should get along.
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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2007, 10:34:30 PM »
The late Benazir's own niece, Fatima, accuses her aunt of ordering the murder of her father (Benazir's brother), who was a vocal critic of her. Benazir's Bhutto problem was she was part of the Feudal class who have ruled Pakistan since independence and played a role in preventing democracy from taking root there. The Islamists appeal in Pakistan is party a result of the ability to protray themselves as the only people who can face the feudal class and bring about social justice. No secular leaders in Pakistan exist who can do that.

Bhutto's return bodes poorly for Pakistan -- and for democracy there.
By Fatima Bhutto
November 14, 2007
KARACHI -- We Pakistanis live in uncertain times. Emergency rule has been imposed for the 13th time in our short 60-year history. Thousands of lawyers have been arrested, some charged with sedition and treason; the chief justice has been deposed; and a draconian media law -- shutting down all private news channels -- has been drafted.

Perhaps the most bizarre part of this circus has been the hijacking of the democratic cause by my aunt, the twice-disgraced former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. While she was hashing out a deal to share power with Gen. Pervez Musharraf last month, she repeatedly insisted that without her, democracy in Pakistan would be a lost cause. Now that the situation has changed, she's saying that she wants Musharraf to step down and that she'd like to make a deal with his opponents -- but still, she says, she's the savior of democracy.

The reality, however, is that there is no one better placed to benefit from emergency rule than she is. Along with the leaders of prominent Islamic parties, she has been spared the violent retributions of emergency law. Yes, she now appears to be facing seven days of house arrest, but what does that really mean? While she was supposedly under house arrest at her Islamabad residence last week, 50 or so of her party members were comfortably allowed to join her. She addressed the media twice from her garden, protected by police given to her by the state, and was not reprimanded for holding a news conference. (By contrast, the very suggestion that they might hold a news conference has placed hundreds of other political activists under real arrest, in real jails.)

Ms. Bhutto's political posturing is sheer pantomime. Her negotiations with the military and her unseemly willingness until just a few days ago to take part in Musharraf's regime have signaled once and for all to the growing legions of fundamentalists across South Asia that democracy is just a guise for dictatorship.

It is widely believed that Ms. Bhutto lost both her governments on grounds of massive corruption. She and her husband, a man who came to be known in Pakistan as "Mr. 10%," have been accused of stealing more than $1 billion from Pakistan's treasury. She is appealing a money-laundering conviction by the Swiss courts involving about $11 million. Corruption cases in Britain and Spain are ongoing.

It was particularly unappealing of Ms. Bhutto to ask Musharraf to bypass the courts and drop the many corruption cases that still face her in Pakistan. He agreed, creating the odiously titled National Reconciliation Ordinance in order to do so. Her collaboration with him was so unsubtle that people on the streets are now calling her party, the Pakistan People's Party, the Pervez People's Party. Now she might like to distance herself, but it's too late.

Why did Ms. Bhutto and her party cronies demand that her corruption cases be dropped, but not demand that the cases of activists jailed during the brutal regime of dictator Zia ul-Haq (from 1977 to 1988) not be quashed? What about the sanctity of the law? When her brother Mir Murtaza Bhutto -- my father -- returned to Pakistan in 1993, he faced 99 cases against him that had been brought by Zia's military government. The cases all carried the death penalty. Yet even though his sister was serving as prime minister, he did not ask her to drop the cases. He returned, was arrested at the airport and spent the remaining years of his life clearing his name, legally and with confidence, in the courts of Pakistan.

Ms. Bhutto's repeated promises to end fundamentalism and terrorism in Pakistan strain credulity because, after all, the Taliban government that ran Afghanistan was recognized by Pakistan under her last government -- making Pakistan one of only three governments in the world to do so.

And I am suspicious of her talk of ensuring peace. My father was a member of Parliament and a vocal critic of his sister's politics. He was killed outside our home in 1996 in a carefully planned police assassination while she was prime minister. There were 70 to 100 policemen at the scene, all the streetlights had been shut off and the roads were cordoned off. Six men were killed with my father. They were shot at point-blank range, suffered multiple bullet wounds and were left to bleed on the streets.

My father was Benazir's younger brother. To this day, her role in his assassination has never been adequately answered, although the tribunal convened after his death under the leadership of three respected judges concluded that it could not have taken place without approval from a "much higher" political authority.

I have personal reasons to fear the danger that Ms. Bhutto's presence in Pakistan brings, but I am not alone. The Islamists are waiting at the gate. They have been waiting for confirmation that the reforms for which the Pakistani people have been struggling have been a farce, propped up by the White House. Since Musharraf seized power in 1999, there has been an earnest grass-roots movement for democratic reform. The last thing we need is to be tied to a neocon agenda through a puppet "democrat" like Ms. Bhutto.

By supporting Ms. Bhutto, who talks of democracy while asking to be brought to power by a military dictator, the only thing that will be accomplished is the death of the nascent secular democratic movement in my country. Democratization will forever be de-legitimized, and our progress in enacting true reforms will be quashed. We Pakistanis are certain of this.

Fatima Bhutto is a Pakistani poet and writer. She is the daughter of Mir Murtaza Bhutto, who was killed in 1996 in Karachi when his sister, Benazir, was prime minister.

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Re: Pakistan
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2007, 11:28:50 PM »
Nuke-em.
You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having buttsex with a fish squirrel, congratulations.

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