Close all grammar schools?

[Parts]

I didn't apply there anyway I went to another school in New Haven that wasn't stuck up like the Yalies are knew a bunch though didn't like many...

[Soph]

my school was stuck up. fucking twats

[Christopher McCandless]

it actually isnt about class there; theyre more likely to let people in for having an older brother/sister already in the school, or living nearby

You are just being naive. There are plenty of other factors at play.

[Soph]

im not naive at all. obviously there are more than 2 factors that come into it, but its MOSTLY things like that

[Christopher McCandless]

Loopholes in the system and the like. Plus the appeal is judged by someone, who do you think they are most likely to let in, a working class person or an upper class person?

Why the fuck should it be any different from everything
else? Life ain't fair. I figured you'd have learned that, from
your college entrance experience. It NEVER will be.

Oh life never is fair. But there is no reason for government to take every action it can to make life as fair as possible. Closing grammar schools would be a step in the right direction to making the UK have a better education system, given how much money gets thrown at it, its a total shambles.

[Soph]

education in this country is shit yes.
closing grammar schools wont do much though, theyve already been gone for quite some time in most areas, and education there is still as shit.

[Christopher McCandless]

also, going to a grammar school can fuck up some things for you. when i applied for DLA, i initially got the lowest one, JUST because i went to a grammar school. im now on medium-level. and if you apply somewhere from a grammar, they often expect you to have higher grades than someone who didnt go to a grammar, so if you have straight As, and so does someone else who went to a regular school, theyll assume theyve put in more effort and often give them the place.

The people at DLA are muppets on toast, paid the minimum wage to guess at peoples disabilities. Why did you tell them that you went to a grammar when you applied anyway?

As for the grammars reducing your universities success chance, its pretty much the opposite, look at how many grammar school entrants get into Oxbridge and the like (most the people I know up in my uni went to either grammar or private school). Though they are right in that you dont have to work as hard, you have a lot more help and access to the courses you want to take.

[Christopher McCandless]

education in this country is shit yes.
closing grammar schools wont do much though, theyve already been gone for quite some time in most areas, and education there is still as shit.

Closing grammar schools would be a great help, by not creaming off the top quartile, and giving out the best teachers to those who dont really need them. The step is symbolic as the start of a much better system. If a quartile needs taking out, it should be the bottom one, where they can be given a more intensive education to get them back on track.

[Soph]

i didnt choose to tell them, they ask which kind of school you go to etc.

a lot do go to oxbridge, yes. but that's mainly through being pushed for 7 years by the teachers. these kind of teachers end up at the best schools anyway, regardless of whether or not those schools are grammars. so even if you get rid of grammar schools, there will always be certain schools which are better than the majority. and the kids who end up there will be chosen based on where they live etc, instead of ability. im not saying the 11+ properly shows how intelligent they are, but entry into a grammar school usually does mean the brighter kids in general.

and i know it's the opposite mostly, when i was told this that's what they said, but they also said that it can have a negative affect in some cases

[Soph]

education in this country is shit yes.
closing grammar schools wont do much though, theyve already been gone for quite some time in most areas, and education there is still as shit.

Closing grammar schools would be a great help, by not creaming off the top quartile, and giving out the best teachers to those who dont really need them. The step is symbolic as the start of a much better system. If a quartile needs taking out, it should be the bottom one, where they can be given a more intensive education to get them back on track.

the 'bottom' ones are often the ones that just cant be arsed to do the work and piss about with their friends every night instead of doing any work. kids like that ARE usually given extra help in most schools, which is then unfair on the ones who WANT to work

[Christopher McCandless]

i didnt choose to tell them, they ask which kind of school you go to etc.

Then you give the short answer then, i.e "a state school" if you can.

a lot do go to oxbridge, yes. but that's mainly through being pushed for 7 years by the teachers. these kind of teachers end up at the best schools anyway, regardless of whether or not those schools are grammars. so even if you get rid of grammar schools, there will always be certain schools which are better than the majority. and the kids who end up there will be chosen based on where they live etc, instead of ability. im not saying the 11+ properly shows how intelligent they are, but entry into a grammar school usually does mean the brighter kids in general.

A grammar school is a total failure as far as I am concerned if it doesnt get pretty much 100 percent of its students getting A*-C grades. What they actually do is make lots of people who dont get in there feel like failures, and damaged, and have to go to the local dump caused by the existance of the grammar school.

and i know it's the opposite mostly, when i was told this that's what they said, but they also said that it can have a negative affect in some cases

Yeah, when against someone who has gotten same or better grades than you without close to the educational advantage, for example when they have had to teach themselves an a-level from a textbook, as an example, because the school doesn't offer the course.

[Christopher McCandless]

education in this country is shit yes.
closing grammar schools wont do much though, theyve already been gone for quite some time in most areas, and education there is still as shit.

Closing grammar schools would be a great help, by not creaming off the top quartile, and giving out the best teachers to those who dont really need them. The step is symbolic as the start of a much better system. If a quartile needs taking out, it should be the bottom one, where they can be given a more intensive education to get them back on track.

the 'bottom' ones are often the ones that just cant be arsed to do the work and piss about with their friends every night instead of doing any work. kids like that ARE usually given extra help in most schools, which is then unfair on the ones who WANT to work

Total bullshit. I know quite a fair few people (some very good friends of mine) who would have failed the 11+ by quite a way if they were allowed to take it, have worked hard in the 7 years after it, gotten straight A's at A-level, and gone off now to a top uni on a course alot more competitive to get on than the one you are studying. By the way, people get excluded just as often from grammars as they do state schools, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The reason you like grammars is you feel you are above everyone else, or should be, so you think you should get special treatment. I doubt there is any good arguement for why you deserve better treatment, if you have it then fire away...

[Soph]

i didnt choose to tell them, they ask which kind of school you go to etc.

Then you give the short answer then, i.e "a state school" if you can.

a lot do go to oxbridge, yes. but that's mainly through being pushed for 7 years by the teachers. these kind of teachers end up at the best schools anyway, regardless of whether or not those schools are grammars. so even if you get rid of grammar schools, there will always be certain schools which are better than the majority. and the kids who end up there will be chosen based on where they live etc, instead of ability. im not saying the 11+ properly shows how intelligent they are, but entry into a grammar school usually does mean the brighter kids in general.

A grammar school is a total failure as far as I am concerned if it doesnt get pretty much 100 percent of its students getting A*-C grades. What they actually do is make lots of people who dont get in there feel like failures, and damaged, and have to go to the local dump caused by the existance of the grammar school.

and i know it's the opposite mostly, when i was told this that's what they said, but they also said that it can have a negative affect in some cases

Yeah, when against someone who has gotten same or better grades than you without close to the educational advantage, for example when they have had to teach themselves an a-level from a textbook, as an example, because the school doesn't offer the course.

they asked what school you go to, i had to fill it in

there will always be a 'local dump'
it was actually people who went to grammar schools that got most of the shit from people, being seen as snobs etc. and you make it sound like most people get in, and then a few dont and feel left out. its a minority you get into grammar schools.

pretty much 99% of people at my school did get A*-C grades, a C was considered shit. the only one i got less than a C one was one i tried to fail and got a D on because i hated it and wanted to be kicked off the course.

and grammar schools dont just make the ones who dont get in suffer. my school made me feel like shit for five years, so i got the hell out of there as soon as i could instead of staying in the 6th form.

and i didnt mean people who'd got better grades, i mean when youre up against someone who has the same grades as you, sometimes theyd be chosen as theyd be seen as someone whos prepared to work harder.

i taught myself most of my GCSEs though, so i dont see why it should be that way

[Soph]

education in this country is shit yes.
closing grammar schools wont do much though, theyve already been gone for quite some time in most areas, and education there is still as shit.

Closing grammar schools would be a great help, by not creaming off the top quartile, and giving out the best teachers to those who dont really need them. The step is symbolic as the start of a much better system. If a quartile needs taking out, it should be the bottom one, where they can be given a more intensive education to get them back on track.

the 'bottom' ones are often the ones that just cant be arsed to do the work and piss about with their friends every night instead of doing any work. kids like that ARE usually given extra help in most schools, which is then unfair on the ones who WANT to work

Total bullshit. I know quite a fair few people (some very good friends of mine) who would have failed the 11+ by quite a way if they were allowed to take it, have worked hard in the 7 years after it, gotten straight A's at A-level, and gone off now to a top uni on a course alot more competitive to get on than the one you are studying. By the way, people get excluded just as often from grammars as they do state schools, you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The reason you like grammars is you feel you are above everyone else, or should be, so you think you should get special treatment. I doubt there is any good arguement for why you deserve better treatment, if you have it then fire away...

i also know a fair few people who failed the 11+ and put in a lot of effort in the school they ended up at. i didnt say ALL of them are. i said a lot of them are. there were three schools in my area: my school (grammar) and two others: a boys school full of antisocial arseholes and a girls school full of stupid sluts. obviously there are exceptions, but in my case, thats how the majority of them were.

and i dont know why youre trying to being me into this personally.
"a lot more competitive than the one you are studying"
what does that haver to do with it?
ive wanted to do history since i was 6 or 7 years old, regardess of how competitive it was, i'd still have applied for this course. and youre now saying these people got into top-tier universities without a grammar school education. so why cant the rest?

i dont know what youre talknig about exclusions anyway. i never mentioned ggetting excluded. and youre wrong about my particular school if you think just as many got excluded from there as did from the other schools. not many people got excluded or even suspended at my school, plenty did at the others though. and i dont even live in a rough area.

and dont fucking tell me why i think this or why i think that. you have no idea what my reasons are. i dont feel im better than anyone else. and i dont 'like' grammar schools. if you must know, i absolutely despise my school

[Kosmonaut]

I would abolish these stupid exams and gramma schools.
I have signed the potition.
I would recommend reading "Lila :an inquiry into morals" by R Pirszig. I have nothing else to add than has not been said in this book.