Author Topic: Evolution: the fight  (Read 2547 times)

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Offline Alex179

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2007, 01:47:29 PM »
As difficult as it is to have faith in something that you can't perceive with any of your senses, isn't it harder to have faith in the works of humanity?   You either trust that science is right or you try to disprove it, faith doesn't work that way really.   I don't think you can really attach faith to science as you can actually see science work with your own senses.   It is something you can actually study as it is real, like how dropping a bowling ball on your foot is real (gravity works!).  The reason why people have faith in a god is because you must have faith to believe it exists, you have no other evidence than a book written by.... humans that are supposedly influenced by god.   I don't fucking trust humans to keep the word of god as it was originally "spoken", and I really don't trust them to be perfect scientifically either.
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Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2007, 02:04:09 PM »
As difficult as it is to have faith in something that you can't perceive with any of your senses, isn't it harder to have faith in the works of humanity?   You either trust that science is right or you try to disprove it, faith doesn't work that way really.   I don't think you can really attach faith to science as you can actually see science work with your own senses.   It is something you can actually study as it is real, like how dropping a bowling ball on your foot is real (gravity works!).  The reason why people have faith in a god is because you must have faith to believe it exists, you have no other evidence than a book written by.... humans that are supposedly influenced by god.   I don't fucking trust humans to keep the word of god as it was originally "spoken", and I really don't trust them to be perfect scientifically either.
Some of Our Greatest Scientists of the Past where Christians. Where would We be in science today without Them?

Some of the Greatest Mathematicians of the the Past where Muslims. Where would We be in mathematics today without Them?
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Offline Alex179

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2007, 02:07:23 PM »
They would still exist, just they would have no religion.   I doubt their religion had anything to do with why they were skilled at math or science.   Just because they had no belief in god, doesn't mean they wouldn't make the same achievements in their chosen fields. 
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Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2007, 02:43:29 PM »
They would still exist, just they would have no religion.   I doubt their religion had anything to do with why they were skilled at math or science.   Just because they had no belief in god, doesn't mean they wouldn't make the same achievements in their chosen fields. 
But science and mathematics where started in a time religion. Some where persecuted for what they believed in. It took these persons to further Our Science and Mathematics.
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Offline Alex179

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2007, 02:48:06 PM »
Science advanced in spite of religion.  The religions of the world initially tried to hold science back to some extent.   Islam supposedly supports the advancement of science lol.   Right now Christians are trying to hold back science.   They did the same thing during the "Dark Ages", but were much more effective obviously due to most people being incapable of reading.   

Mathematics advancing has nothing to do with religion though, only if you count the need to do higher maths to work problems that relate to sciences.
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Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2007, 03:17:44 PM »
Science advanced in spite of religion.  The religions of the world initially tried to hold science back to some extent.   Islam supposedly supports the advancement of science lol.   Right now Christians are trying to hold back science.   They did the same thing during the "Dark Ages", but were much more effective obviously due to most people being incapable of reading.   

Mathematics advancing has nothing to do with religion though, only if you count the need to do higher maths to work problems that relate to sciences.
Of course it did. Of course they did. But the advancements We have can not yet explain All yet can We. Science has not really tried to explain Themselves (scientists) enough so the ordinary person can understand the science well enough. We are to take no matter what as the only truth the only correct way of Understanding Our World that We live in.

Is Science or Scientists that High and Almighty?

I truly don't care about the religious aspects. I was trying to get somebody to answer My questions I have asked only. Nobody has not answered them either. I was not trying to bring Religion in to it You have made Me bring it in the end.
What started the moment of The Big Bang?

We can not go back to the very moment of The Big Bang when it started. We can only go back just before The Big Bang started.


What started the moment of Life on Earth?

Can We yet start that moment of Life when it began on Earth?

Has science yet started Life, or created Life, or a new species of Life?

Science can only enhance existing Life.


So when will somebody try to explain these questions?
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Offline Peter

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2007, 04:00:17 PM »
What started the moment of The Big Bang?

We can not go back to the very moment of The Big Bang when it started. We can only go back just before The Big Bang started.

You've answered your own question here.  With our current scientific understanding, it's impossible for us to determine what conditions existed in the very first moment of the Big Bang.  This is a well-defined limitation, and invoking a deity and making up some fairytale about it does nothing to enhance our understanding; doing so would simply be us deluding ourselves.

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What started the moment of Life on Earth?

The dominant theories of abiogenesis postulate that simple self-replicating chemical systems emerged and from there evolved into life as we know it.

Quote
Can We yet start that moment of Life when it began on Earth?

We do not know precisely how life started on Earth.  There are numerous possible self-replicating systems which could have been the precursor to modern life, and there is no known surviving evidence that could tell us which one it was, and very little likelihood of such evidence being found.

Quote
Has science yet started Life, or created Life, or a new species of Life?

Yes, speciation events have been achieved in laboratory conditions, as well as being observed in nature.  Abiogenesis has not yet been achieved, however research is ongoing in that area and there are no known fundamental obstacles to the artificial creation of life.
Quote
14:10 - Moarskrillex42: She said something about knowing why I wanted to move to Glasgow when she came in. She plopped down on my bed and told me to go ahead and open it for her.

14:11 - Peter5930: So, she thought I was your lover and that I was sending you a box full of sex toys, and that you wanted to move to Glasgow to be with me?

Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2007, 07:33:31 PM »
Thanks Peter. :plus:
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Offline morthaur

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2007, 12:25:42 PM »
Some of Our Greatest Scientists of the Past where Christians. Where would We be in science today without Them?

Some of the Greatest Mathematicians of the the Past where Muslims. Where would We be in mathematics today without Them?
Probably just where we are.  The difference between revealed religion on the one hand, and science & mathematics on the other, is that the latter would inevitably be discovered by someone else; they are not dependent on the "lone genius", as they reflect natural effects and laws.  Calculus, to state a well-known example, was developed by two thinkers, totally independently of one another, at almost the same time (Newton and Leibniz).

Science has not really tried to explain Themselves (scientists) enough so the ordinary person can understand the science well enough. We are to take no matter what as the only truth the only correct way of Understanding Our World that We live in.
Of course they have tried to explain themselves!  You haven't ever stepped into the science section at your local bookseller and seen the rows and rows of books by science popularizers?  You've never heard of folks like Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Matt Ridley, Brian Greene, Steven Pinker, et ceteras ad nauseam?

I truly don't care about the religious aspects. I was trying to get somebody to answer My questions I have asked only. Nobody has not answered them either. I was not trying to bring Religion in to it You have made Me bring it in the end.
What started the moment of The Big Bang?

We can not go back to the very moment of The Big Bang when it started. We can only go back just before The Big Bang started.


What started the moment of Life on Earth?

Can We yet start that moment of Life when it began on Earth?

Has science yet started Life, or created Life, or a new species of Life?

Science can only enhance existing Life.

So when will somebody try to explain these questions?
Okay, Peter covered a lot of this, so I'll just add a few details and links.

Has science yet started Life, or created Life, or a new species of Life?
See the article below for the middle question.  Science has started life, in the sense of getting the chemical bonds to occur spontaneously, which is all that is really required in broad terms.  Almost everything about the subsequent development of such primitive chemical 'lifeforms' can be explained with current evolutionary theories (frameworks).  As for speciation, this occurs on a routine basis in research on more primitive organisms, from bacteria to insects, since these critters have a lifespan brief enough to observe in controlled experiments.

excerpt:
Quote
Countdown to a synthetic lifeform
    11 July 2007

Synthetic life could be just around the corner - depending on what you mean by "synthetic".

Last week, genomics pioneer Craig Venter announced that his team has passed an important milestone in its efforts to create a bacterial cell whose genome is entirely synthetic - constructed chemically from the building blocks of DNA. Venter claims this goal could be achieved within months.

But while Venter's synthetic genome will be housed within an existing bacterial cell, other scientists are aiming for the even more ambitious target of building an entire living cell from the basic chemical ingredients. Giovanni Murtas of the Enrico Fermi Centre at the University of Rome 3, Italy, reported last week at the Synthetic Biology 3.0 meeting in Zurich, Switzerland, that his team had taken a step toward this goal by successfully synthesising proteins in cell-like compartments.

According to George Church at Harvard Medical School in Boston, who has devised a complete blueprint for a synthetic cell, an investment of around $10 million would be enough to turn the "bottom-up" dream into reality. "Our approach doesn't require any super new technology," he says.

Whichever definition of synthetic life you adopt, it seems now to be a question of when rather than if. "We are at the doorstep of being able to create life," says Steen Rasmussen, a physicist trying to create artificial living systems at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
{follow link above for full article}

What started the moment of The Big Bang?
There is a lot of work done on this topic, but the following is a great place to start: Big Bang: The Origin of the Universe, by Simon Singh.  It is a very recent book by a science popularizer that you should be able to find in any Barnes & Noble or Borders (or what-have-you).  It brings together the current state of our knowledge of that period, as well as the evidence to support those views.

You might also want to look at Origins: Fourteen Billion Years of Cosmic Evolution, by Neil deGrasse Tyson and Donald Goldsmith, which touches on both of your questions.

Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2007, 12:54:07 PM »
Morthaur:

A question.

Why is the universe expanding faster today as ever before?
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2007, 04:58:01 PM »
cuz the ascension is coming. :green:
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Offline Leto729

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2007, 08:52:58 PM »
cuz the ascension is coming. :green:
You are funny. :green:
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2007, 08:53:43 PM »
it is true. :green:
"I think everybody has an asshole component to their personality. It's just a matter of how much you indulge it. Those who do it often form a habit. So like any addiction, you have to learn to overcome it."
~Lord Phlexor

"Sometimes stepping on one's own dick is a memorable learning experience."
~PPK

"We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away."
~Gkar

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Offline Calandale

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2007, 10:17:26 PM »
I can't wait for the bigger bang!

Offline Alex179

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Re: Evolution: the fight
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2007, 10:26:35 PM »
I can't wait for the bigger bang!
The one that destroyls everything?
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