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Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 05:21:22 PM »
This one's a bit outdated..... but he makes a very good point. +1 to Donald.

“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 09:35:31 PM »


Once again, the Left can't meme.   ::)      ::)      ::)

Offline odeon

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 12:57:45 AM »
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 08:30:44 AM »


Oh tell you AGAIN? Did we tell you first time?

Is Mexico going to pay for the wall in one lump sum or in installments or piecemeal?

Are they going to pay in kind or write out a cheque? Is it going to simply be an equivalent amount offset in savings? What might those savings be?

« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 02:10:22 PM by Al Swearengen »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Icequeen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 09:04:37 AM »

Offline odeon

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 02:29:18 PM »
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 04:57:00 PM »


Wow.

That just takes political double-speak to a whole new level.

No, I never thought Mexico was gonna cut a cheque for the wall. Or pay for it at all except in Trump's imagination. But "Mexico is gonna pay for the wall" now means "American taxpayers are gonna pay for the wall" and no amount of circular gobbledygook is gonna make that anything except bullshit. Or justify closing down a big chunk of the economy.
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2019, 07:16:24 PM »


Wow.

That just takes political double-speak to a whole new level.

No, I never thought Mexico was gonna cut a cheque for the wall. Or pay for it at all except in Trump's imagination. But "Mexico is gonna pay for the wall" now means "American taxpayers are gonna pay for the wall" and no amount of circular gobbledygook is gonna make that anything except bullshit. Or justify closing down a big chunk of the economy.

Wow, that was a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

1) Aid
$14 000 000 000 in aid to Mexico every year

2) Total Governmental Expenditures on Illegal Aliens
Federal Cost of illegal immigrants - $45,870,474,332
State and Local Costs of Illegal Immigrants - $88,992,981,032
Total National costs of illegal immigrants - $132,863,455,365

Federal Tax received from Illegal immigrants - $15,447,897,700
Local and state Taxes received from illegal immigrants - $3,520,960,000
Total national taxes received from illegal immigrants - $18,968,857,700

Total cost of illegal immigration - $132,863,455,365 - $18,968,857,700 = $113, 894, 597, 665

3) Money sent home to Mexico

Over $23 000 000 000

4) DRUGS

The NDIC estimates that the annual cost of drug-related crime in the United States is more than $61 billion with criminal justice system cost making up $56 billion of that cost.

Crack cocaine and methamphetamine are the drugs that most often contribute to the commission of crimes in the U.S., according to the National Drug Threat Survey. Heroin use is a significant factor in the commission of property crimes.

From 63 percent to 83 percent of all arrestees test positive for illicit substances at the time of their arrest, according to the Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring Program (ADAM II), which monitors arrestees in 10 cities across the U.S. Twelve percent to 50 percent of arrestees test positive for more than one drug in their system when arrested.

*Note 1 and 2 are all illegal immigrants and not just Mexicans AND 4 is indicative of the kind of cost wrought from easily transported drugs from Mexico walked across open borders*

So in short there is a shitload of expenses that Mexico is costing the US.

If the wall costs $5 billion and Trump is able to reduce either the actual present day costs in these line items by $5 billion or more then Mexico has paid for the wall and reimbursed the cost of the government to front the initial costs and likewise if the wall halts or reduces future escalation of costs projected from not having a wall, by at least $5 billion, the same applies.

Mexico pays for it.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2019, 07:32:15 PM »
Does Trump have concrete plans to deduct the cost of the wall from any aid payments currently going to Mexico? If not, it's a bollocks argument.

Will the wall be money proof, and somehow stop people sending money to their families? If not, it's another bollocks argument.

Will the wall actually keep illegal aliens out? Most illegal aliens don't sneak across the border. That's why you have people saying that the wall is a metaphor for the intent to keep illegal aliens out of the country. More bollocks.

Will the wall keep drugs out? Most drugs enter the US in a variety of ways through legal border crossings. Even if it did stop some channels, would it actually reduce the cost of the war on drugs, seeing as the demand is still there and traffickers would simply find another way to bring in the small % of drugs that are carried across the border outside legal border crossings? By what mechanism is a wall supposedly going to reduce the cost of the war on drugs? And even if it did (which it won't).... how would that constitute Mexico paying for the wall?

Reality: Mexico aint paying for the wall.
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline odeon

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2019, 10:42:03 PM »
The latest on this is, of course, that apparently the wall is a mnemonic from Trump campaign workers to their goldfish boss. :rofl:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2019, 02:19:42 AM »
Does Trump have concrete plans to deduct the cost of the wall from any aid payments currently going to Mexico? If not, it's a bollocks argument.

No idea, it is a possibility, one of a few I mentioned. Does Trump have concrete plans? He may have or may not have or may have non-concrete plans? You don't know..........at all.

Will the wall be money proof, and somehow stop people sending money to their families? If not, it's another bollocks argument.

Wrong question. IF the laws were changed to have a current US Visa to send a money order with Western Union and such?

Will the wall actually keep illegal aliens out? Most illegal aliens don't sneak across the border. That's why you have people saying that the wall is a metaphor for the intent to keep illegal aliens out of the country. More bollocks.

When you have an open border you have opened a multitude of options for crossing. These options reduce steadily. For example if you are a potential illegal immigrant living East of Chiahuahua in the Mexican state of the same name, not in fear for your life but seeing the temptation of hitch North East about 200 kms and slipping across the border into the Big Bend National Park. You may be aware of some idea of opportunities available and some benefits and think they compare favourably. Open border 200 kms to travel, open border. Welcome to America (unless of course that you find yourself running into a predatory cartel beforehand).

But what happens of you put a barrier up, would that make a difference? Course it would. What would this person's other options to cross be? Plane? Make it to the beach and hitch a ride on a boat?

Is it true that such a [person like this would be on your nominal tally of the immigrants who cross over? You seem to suggest MOST illegal immigrants do not cross across the porous border. How do you know?

Will the wall keep drugs out? Most drugs enter the US in a variety of ways through legal border crossings. Even if it did stop some channels, would it actually reduce the cost of the war on drugs, seeing as the demand is still there and traffickers would simply find another way to bring in the small % of drugs that are carried across the border outside legal border crossings? By what mechanism is a wall supposedly going to reduce the cost of the war on drugs? And even if it did (which it won't).... how would that constitute Mexico paying for the wall?

Most drugs cross through the legal ports. You know this because.....? If they knew how MOST of it came in, I suspect that most of the drugs would not be coming in.

Reduce the amount of drugs coming into US and you reduce the amount of expenses based on these drugs and the harm in society.

Reality: Mexico aint paying for the wall.

Sure they are just not upfront. The government will reimburse the initial cost through savings from Mexico.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2019, 02:40:09 AM »
Wrong question. IF the laws were changed to have a current US Visa to send a money order with Western Union and such?

All your responses are funny. But this one especially.

WTF does changing the law to require a current US visa in order to send a money order have to do with Trump's proposed wall?

Nothing. You can change the law without a wall. Or you can have a wall and not change the law. The two are not related. Nice red herring but!
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Icequeen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2019, 09:42:17 AM »

Offline odeon

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2019, 12:15:28 PM »
I love it how Al sounds like Trump. The same cluelessness, the same careless lie. Trump doesn't care so why should his supporters?

2020, the real issue will be about cutting through the noise.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Icequeen

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Re: The Wall
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2019, 01:29:12 PM »
I think it's basically a dramatized PR stunt where the only wall that will be built is one from a huge stack of dollar bills from the repeated shakedowns of his brain washed supporters.

Congress already allocated money for repairs and upgrades to "the wall" in both 2017 & 2018 and it's reported only 6% of that has even been touched.

Now he makes a big speech proceeded by and followed up with a big ad campaign asking for more contributions from his supporters. Wonder how much he got from them this time? :laugh: