Author Topic: By what metric do you measure social decay??  (Read 1330 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

  • Drunk-assed squadron leader
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 6663
  • Karma: 0
  • Communist propaganda is demoralizing the West.
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2016, 09:42:28 AM »
I aspire for a Star Trek-like utopia where there is no hunger, no want or need

These are the very things that push people forward to strive and succeed. Get rid of these things and you will have a world of lazy entitled cry babies.

You seriously think hunger is a good thing?

Being hungry is. It motivates even the most lazy.

Offline 'Butterflies'

  • Mastermind of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 7500
  • Karma: 625
  • Gender: Female
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2016, 05:09:46 PM »
I aspire for a Star Trek-like utopia where there is no hunger, no want or need

These are the very things that push people forward to strive and succeed. Get rid of these things and you will have a world of lazy entitled cry babies.

You seriously think hunger is a good thing?

Being hungry is. It motivates even the most lazy.

I hope you're joking.

Offline Lestat

  • Pharmaceutical dustbin of the autie elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 8965
  • Karma: 451
  • Gender: Male
  • Homo stercore veteris, heterodiem
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2016, 05:51:02 PM »
Whilst I do not exactly agree that world hunger is good, I think I get what was meant.

If there is zero hardship, then people become used to that, they will probably become soft and fat and useless, so that when the shit DOES hit the fan there will no longer be the capability to deal with the shitshower of raining turds beating down upon those soft, fat useless heads.

World hunger is not 'IT' but some form of hardship, that can be solved through continued effort I think is a good thing. People need a driving force in order to prevent their becoming degenerate and useless. Otherwise, were such a utopia possible then good, sooner the better.
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline Jack

  • Reiterative Utterance of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Maniacal Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 14550
  • Karma: 0
  • You don't know Jack.
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2016, 05:53:05 PM »
Basic human needs only motivate people to survive.

Offline 'Butterflies'

  • Mastermind of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 7500
  • Karma: 625
  • Gender: Female
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2016, 06:11:55 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Offline Al Swearegen

  • Pussycat of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 18721
  • Karma: 2240
  • Always front on and in your face
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2016, 06:24:49 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Lestat

  • Pharmaceutical dustbin of the autie elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 8965
  • Karma: 451
  • Gender: Male
  • Homo stercore veteris, heterodiem
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2016, 06:26:39 PM »
Quite. Its just that there is a huge difference between world hunger coming in famine grade, and the continued need to work hard to produce the food. Efficient food productivity and the use of advanced technology to tweak the genetics of food and medicinal crops (E.g wheat,   Where    When
Al Swearengen (1947)    Lestat (214)    +    Well said   In topic    Today at 05:51:46 PM
Trigger 11 (408)    Lestat (214)    +     and the opium poppy respectively. GM grain is old hat now, although still room for improvements of course, whilst in the case of the opium poppy, there are now both very efficient high morphine producer poppy strains going, I've grown some of them myself actually, although I regrettably do not have access to some of the proprietary superstrains used by big pharma, but some specifically intended to be high yielding ones with a very high proportion of morphine in the alkaloidal fraction once it is extracted by means of not even bothering to lance the pods, but rather, to simply run both poppy pods and chopped up poppy straw through a big blender, and then soak the resultant mush in dilute acidic solution, such as hydrochloric, in a mix of mostly methanol, about 70-80 percent, and the rest H2O, this makes it far easier to evaporate and concentrate the solution of alkaloids. And avoids the latex oxidizing so much and going brown, so one gets a nicer, cleaner product with less work done. Then evaporate the acidic H2O until most of the methanol is gone, after first letting it settle out, so the plant fiber and bits of crud settle to the bottom, then pour through coffee filters or lab filter paper, decolorize if need be with a little activated carbon. Then evaporate the methanol until there is mostly H2O left containing a concentrated solution of poppy alkaloids.

Addition of slaked lime, calcium hydroxide in suspension reacts with the phenolic -OH groups of morphine, codeine and many, although not all opium poppy alkaloids, because unlike the hydroxyl moieties found in alcohols, phenols are quite acidic and can form phenoxide salts, aka phenates. Many calcium phenates are insoluble in H2O, morphine certainly is, and will precipitate out. The more concentrated the solution of alkaloids before adding the slaked lime the better, and easier to collect the morphine and other goodies on workup. But it literally snows out, cooling helps.

Doing multiple acid water pulls is obligatory of course, upon the slurry of poppy pod/straw mush, that way one gets the majority of the alkaloids. The calcium morphinate salt along with the bits of codeine, thebaine etc. then should be filtered again, after first decanting most of the H2O/remaining methanol or other alcohol through coffee filters or lab filter paper, and separated from the remainder, which is again filtered, the fraction of the alkaloids remaining will be caught in the filter, allow to dry. Then it can be carefully acidified with HCl (dilute) to give morphine hydrochloride, or the morphine and other goods can be dissolved in methanol as the phenate, treated with a solution of moderate strength ammonia gas in methanol to give the freebase, extracted with chloroform or methylene chloride (chloroform can be made from acetone, using bleach and caustic soda, in glass only containers, to perform a haloform rxn-gets quite hot, large ones should have both cold water and ice baths available in case of runaway), and the chloroform carefully distilled off or evaporated to give morphine freebase.  Take this up in dry acetone with a stoichiometric quantity of bicarbonate relative to the molar amount of HCl that the acyl halides will give off when hydrolyzing, preferably adding half the base first, and then treat with either acetyl chloride, propionyl chloride to give either diamorphine (heroin) or dipropionylmorphine, slowly, in dry acetone solution, adding more base in portions. Bubbling will start, and continue for a while when the reaction is still going. When the bubbling ceases, the rxn is complete. Add a tiny bit more base off the tip of a knife, to see if it bubbles off more CO2 still then its still acidic, and should be tested with PH strips, adding knife-tip portions of bicarbonate until very slightly alkaline to red litmus, or titrated to neutral PH using an electric PH pen.

Then evaporate off the acetone using GENTLE heat, acetone boils at 56.05'C, which is whilst not damaging, a LITTLE bit warm IMO, I'd recommend about 40'C to 45'C and have moving air from a fan over the top of the container, to disperse the vapor. Kitchen extractor fan above a grill works, the fan removes the acetone vapor, whilst the grill can be used at a very, very tiny flame setting, fan going over too which will make the solvent go away faster if one hasn't distillation equipment to strip it and recycle it. The result is diacetylmorphine or the infinitely superior dipropionylmorphine-faster acting, longer acting, far far far better rush when IV'ed if propionyl chloride was used. Acetic anhydride or propionic anhydride work, although heating is needed and it is not nearly so fast and clean. Also, if these cannot be obtained or one doesn't wish to buy them, whilst I have never done it apparently the common, dirt cheap and unsuspicious glacial acetic acid can be used (no base needed) to selectively acetylate the 6-position of morphine to form 6-monoacetylmorphine which is meant to be rather good stuff. Never had 6-MAM though, yet. I assume also that glacial propionic acid would work to form the 6-monopropionate ester of morphine)

There are also industrial poppy strains now that have been engineered to produce nearly no morphine and most of the alkaloid content being thebaine, which is not an opioid itself, but rather, in tiny amounts it gives opium or poppy pod tea its uniquely perky, stimulating effects, but in larger quantities, it is a convulsant poison due to its being a strychnine-sensitive glycine receptor antagonist like strychnine is. These strains are used for producing oxycodone, buprenorphine IIRC and other synthetic opiates.

IIRC too, the gene sequences for the enzymes in the morphine biosynthetic pathway have been isolated and cloned into bacteria or yeast, to produce strains of morphine-producing microorganisms which enable production of this valuable painkiller and tasty delightful treat in tanks of growth media nutrient soup. This, I have not yet myself tried to do, although I really want to do it some day too.
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline 'Butterflies'

  • Mastermind of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 7500
  • Karma: 625
  • Gender: Female
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2016, 06:33:59 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

  • Drunk-assed squadron leader
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 6663
  • Karma: 0
  • Communist propaganda is demoralizing the West.
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2016, 06:38:39 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

Such a system never lasts for long though. You either have to make the basic services so meager that those who need them will find them inadequate or if the benefits are generous, you will get too many people mooching off the system.

Offline 'Butterflies'

  • Mastermind of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 7500
  • Karma: 625
  • Gender: Female
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2016, 06:51:51 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

Such a system never lasts for long though. You either have to make the basic services so meager that those who need them will find them inadequate or if the benefits are generous, you will get too many people mooching off the system.

Why would someone want to mooch on benefits, when they could earn decent money. I think that's a poor argument.

I also think that if you make "basic services so meager that those who need them will find them inadequate," then you simply create a group of citizens who are so disenfranchised that they create the social decay you talk about.


Offline Al Swearegen

  • Pussycat of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 18721
  • Karma: 2240
  • Always front on and in your face
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2016, 06:56:38 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

Such a system never lasts for long though. You either have to make the basic services so meager that those who need them will find them inadequate or if the benefits are generous, you will get too many people mooching off the system.

Absolutely right. Incentive is not to drag your are to work every day. There is more to life than money. If you do not have enough to be comfortable you will be motivated to earn.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline benjimanbreeg

  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 4573
  • Karma: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • I do not have the right not to do so
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2016, 05:28:34 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

You think corrupt politicians will give that money back to the people?  No system will ever work with us humans.  People are too selfish, greedy, ignorant, naive and/or stupid.
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

"When men lead by words that are false as they preach
Fatality waits in the wings
Surrounded by fools behind walls that are breached
Beware of the jester that sings"


Leeeeeaaaave Benji alooooooone!  :bigcry:

Offline 'Butterflies'

  • Mastermind of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 7500
  • Karma: 625
  • Gender: Female
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2016, 05:30:00 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

You think corrupt politicians will give that money back to the people? No system will ever work with us humans.  People are too selfish, greedy, ignorant, naive and/or stupid.

That's a defeatest attitude :laugh:

Offline benjimanbreeg

  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 4573
  • Karma: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • I do not have the right not to do so
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2016, 05:31:04 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

Such a system never lasts for long though. You either have to make the basic services so meager that those who need them will find them inadequate or if the benefits are generous, you will get too many people mooching off the system.

The system has been partly set up to be mooched on.  Like the NHS, and unable to cope with mass immigration etc.  It will turn into such a mess that we beg for private health care.
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

"When men lead by words that are false as they preach
Fatality waits in the wings
Surrounded by fools behind walls that are breached
Beware of the jester that sings"


Leeeeeaaaave Benji alooooooone!  :bigcry:

Offline benjimanbreeg

  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 4573
  • Karma: 76
  • Gender: Male
  • I do not have the right not to do so
Re: By what metric do you measure social decay??
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2016, 05:35:12 PM »
Not everyone can have a nice car, or the nicest clothes. I accept that.

We should be striving to ensure that everyone does have access to enough food, good healthcare, and their basic needs met.

Do you think it is a moral responsibility for those who are well off to donate to those that are not?

No. I believe in redistribution of wealth via taxes.

You think corrupt politicians will give that money back to the people? No system will ever work with us humans.  People are too selfish, greedy, ignorant, naive and/or stupid.

That's a defeatest attitude :laugh:

Yeah sorry.  I meant neither capitalism or communism.  Not that real communism has been tried out.  Real nationalism and real democracy could work where people and countries have respect for each other.
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

"When men lead by words that are false as they preach
Fatality waits in the wings
Surrounded by fools behind walls that are breached
Beware of the jester that sings"


Leeeeeaaaave Benji alooooooone!  :bigcry: