Author Topic: Okay what' going on?  (Read 536 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Okay what' going on?
« on: July 16, 2015, 01:07:54 AM »
https://archive.is/Mqwkb

What’s believed to be the first case in Canada of alleged criminal harassment-via-Twitter is just a judge’s decision away from being over.
After hearing closing submissions Tuesday from Chris Murphy, who represents 54-year-old Greg Elliott, Ontario Court Judge Brent Knazan is expected to rule on Oct. 6.
In the balance rides enormous potential fallout for free speech online.
Elliott is charged with criminally harassing two Toronto female political activists, Steph Guthrie and Heather Reilly, in 2012.

 
Allegations involving a third woman were dropped.
The graphic artist and father of four lost his job shortly after his arrest, which was well-publicized online, and if convicted, could go to jail for six months.
These are astonishing repercussions given that it’s not alleged he ever threatened either woman (or any other, according to the testimony of the Toronto Police officer, Detective Jeff Bangild, who was in charge) or that he ever sexually harassed them.
Matthew Sherwood for National Post; Peter J. Thompson/National Post
Matthew Sherwood for National Post; Peter J. Thompson/National PostStephanie Guthrie, right, accuses Gregory Allan Elliott, left, of harassing her primarily through Twitter.
Indeed, Elliott’s chief sin appears to have been that he dared to disagree with the two young feminists and political activists.
He and Guthrie, for instance, initially fell out over his refusal to endorse her plan to “sic the Internet” upon a young man in Northern Ontario who had invented a violent video game, where users could punch an image of a feminist video blogger named Anita Sarkeesian until the screen turned red.
Guthrie Tweeted at the time that she wanted the inventor’s “hatred on the Internet to impact his real-life experience” and Tweeted to prospective employers to warn them off the young man and even sent the local newspaper in his town a link to the story about the game.
Elliott disagreed with the tactic and Tweeted he thought the shaming “was every bit as vicious as the face-punch game”.
Until then, the two were collegial online, with Elliott offering to produce a free poster for Guthrie’s witopoli (Women in Toronto Politics) group.
As serious as the ramifications of a conviction could be for Elliott, so could they be dire for free speech online, Murphy suggested in his final arguments.
He said the idea that all it takes to end up charged with criminal harassment is vigorous participation in online debate with those who will not brook dissent “will have a chilling effect on people’s ability to communicate, and not just on Twitter”.
In fact, Murphy said that contrary to what Guthrie and Reilly testified to at trial, they weren’t afraid of his client — as suggested by both their spirited demeanour in the witness box and their deliberate online campaign to call Elliott out as a troll.

Rather, Murphy said, they hated Elliott and were determined to silence him — not just by “blocking” his Tweets to them, but by demanding he cease even referring to them even in making comment about heated political issues.
To all this, Guthrie pointed out once in cross-examination that feelings of fear, like all feelings, “develop over time”, and snapped that she was sorry she wasn’t “a perfect victim” who behaved like a conventional victim.
The criminal harassment charge is rooted in the alleged victim’s perception of the offending conduct.
The statute says if that conduct caused the alleged victims “reasonably, in all the circumstances, to fear for their safety”, that’s good enough.
Yet Guthrie and Reilly didn’t behave as though they were remotely frightened or intimidated: They convened a meeting of friends to discuss how Elliott should be publicly shamed; they bombarded their followers with furious tweets and retweets about him (including a grotesque suggestion from someone pretending she was a 13-year-old that he was a pedophile); they could and did dish it out.
“They were not vulnerable,” Murphy said once. “They are very accomplished, politically savvy women. If they can’t handle being mentioned in the tail end of a political discussion (on Twitter), then they’re in the wrong business.”
Related
Christie Blatchford: Twitter trial of Gregory Elliott is becoming much like Twitter itself — shrill and uber-sensitive
Christie Blatchford: Twitter trial makes one long for a time when death threats weren’t so easy to make
Christie Blatchford: Alleged victim and accused in Twitter harassment trial cut from the same cloth
And, he said, of the meeting both women attended in August of 2012, to discuss how Elliott would be called out, “That was a conspiracy to commit a criminal offence … they were conspiring to go out and publicly shame Mr. Elliott.”
Murphy said the case was akin to “a high school spat, except it’s adults on the Internet”, and said it is astonishing that the court should be acting as referee in an online political debate.
“If anybody was being criminally harassed in this case,” Murphy told the judge, “it was my client, it was Mr. Elliott.”
That Reilly, who was anonymous on Twitter and who directed her own volley of hateful tweets at Elliott, should come “to this court and the police and say she’s being criminally harassed is an abuse of the system.”
Prosecutor Marnie Goldenberg made only the briefest remarks, and refused to provide Postmedia with a copy of her written arguments, saying it wasn’t her practice.
National Post


Can someone please break this down for me, how this is morally,ethically and legally okay?
Why is it whenever any of these types of things happen and I point the source of the problem being the "Progressives", I am being told that it is only fringe radicals? I get told that they are without force? I take them too seriously?
How is it that even when the person breaks no laws and they are the instigators, HE loses his job and is arrested and they get no punishment? How is it, regardless of how this goes down, they will still not be punished or called to account for their part in it whilst he will be damaged by this?
How is it that society will see this kind of outrage and spiteful bullying in Dr Matt Taylor (shirtstorm), Tim Hunt and the UWA fake rape cases, and yet no harm against the people supporting this bullshit even if found that they were in the wrong?

Don't understand.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Online Jack

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2015, 06:46:30 PM »
Almost more disturbing is the fact it takes Canada three years to legally process a harassment charge.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2015, 10:30:23 PM »
What has the three years done to his reputation,  employment,  social life and emotional well-being. 
IF this case is dismissed,  how does he get compensated for all that and who by?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2015, 12:04:10 AM »
Stop this right now, Al. I feel intimidated and will sue.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2015, 12:32:27 AM »
Your intimidation is intimidating. Donate to my www.patreon.com account which is set up for me to pursue safe spaces for people intimidated by opinions that are difference
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 01:17:31 AM »
That's it. I'll see you in court.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 09:48:36 AM »
That's it. I'll see you in court.

Triggered!!!!111
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Online Jack

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 11:22:41 AM »
What has the three years done to his reputation,  employment,  social life and emotional well-being. 
IF this case is dismissed,  how does he get compensated for all that and who by?
Don't know enough about Canadian laws or the actual circumstances of the case to have much to comment; though if the case is dismissed he might have grounds for a counter charge but who knows how long that would take. The article states he lost his job, but simply leaves it to the reader to infer what that means. Don't know if it's acceptable grounds for termination in Canada for an employee charged with harassment; maybe the tweets were made from work and investigators contacted his employers to verify the source of the tweets and that subsequently caused his employers to notice how much time they were paying him to engage in non-work related internet activities; maybe his loss of employment had nothing to do with the charge at all; maybe he found another job right away and the impact was minimal; maybe he's been unemployed for three years as a direct result of the charge and will have trouble ever finding employment again regardless of the verdict. Don't really know. 

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 12:51:24 PM »
Twitter.  :GA:

I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 07:21:17 PM »
:gopher:

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 04:45:44 AM »
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 12:39:06 PM »
:gopher:

Offline odeon

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Re: Okay what' going on?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2015, 02:13:38 PM »
Nah, nobody likes hair in their mouths.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein