Author Topic: Iowa FTW  (Read 18183 times)

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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2013, 04:54:43 PM »
In other news, the earth wants to inact legislation from the milky way to enable hoodlum rogue elements out in space otherwise known as asteroids, to please get a life. hitting innocent planetary bodies without the right documentation is, well. a scandal

Loled. But there is a problem. I'm being overly critical, I know. But think about this, okay? I obviously see the satirical comparison on unfeeling asteroids to unfeeling psychopaths, but I think one may be a little more easy to control than the other, don't you?
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They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

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Offline Jesse

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2013, 04:59:49 PM »
In other news, the earth wants to inact legislation from the milky way to enable hoodlum rogue elements out in space otherwise known as asteroids, to please get a life. hitting innocent planetary bodies without the right documentation is, well. a scandal

Loled. But there is a problem. I'm being overly critical, I know. But think about this, okay? I obviously see the satirical comparison on unfeeling asteroids to unfeeling psychopaths, but I think one may be a little more easy to control than the other, don't you?
Its all good. I understand hyperfocusing, I do it quite often myself, What I guess I'm trying to do now is unworry myself. I cannot help people, you cant figure everyone out although you may try. some people like being sociopathic-psycopaths I thought? I dunno, I thought they were fully aware of their actions? and just don't care. Anyways, not trying to tell you how to be Rage I enjoy reading your posts. so carry on as you may
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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2013, 05:12:39 PM »
I'm not mad or anything. I just saw what I felt to be a short circuit in reasoning there, and felt the need to point at it and say, "Hey dude, that might be a problem later."

Quote
you cant figure everyone out although you may try. some people like being sociopathic-psycopaths I thought? I dunno, I thought they were fully aware of their actions? and just don't care.

True enough. But check it out- asteroids are probably harder to figure out and eliminate than buffalo bill, right? They don't care, that's true. Or they wouldn't nonchalantly stroll into a school and murder children, but they do bleed red like the rest of us, and they can be more easily physically overpowered than an asteroid. That's all I was trying to say. I did think your comparison was funny.

On that note, how about more research into the causes and identifying factors of mass shootings and gun violence instead of throwing as many guns into a smelting pot as we can? Can anyone dig that logic?
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline Jesse

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #78 on: September 12, 2013, 05:19:31 PM »
I think what you are trying to get at, is this. It all starts in the home, have a stable normal family and people usually don't have weird personality disorders, and underlying mental health issues later on in life. while I'm not saying its a cure all a lot of these people are just in some pain. and take it out on everyone else
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #79 on: September 12, 2013, 10:43:31 PM »
Actually "legally blind" is a matter of legislation and quite clear. The details may differ between your country and mine, but not significantly, as I understand it.

Being "liable" will not help if the damage is already done.

Let's see...in Iowa a few blind people might get guns. They might mistakenly shoot innocent people when firing the guns in self-defence. In Sweden you are not allowed to carry a gun in self-defence at all, which means that an armed criminal or a criminal with a knife or just a physically stronger criminal or a number of criminals might rob, rape, beat and kill you without you being able to defend yourself.

So which gunlaw poses the greatest danger to a law-abiding citizen?

Statistically? Accidental shootings involving firearms in the home.

Counting accidents with guns is dishonest. It is like counting accidents with cars as cases where people are hit by cars on purpose.

Really? How is a full frontal collision when texting instead of driving different from shooting your kid in the darkness of your home when said kid sneaks in after a night out?

Quote
And gunlaws are still not to protect you from other citizens, they are to protect the state from you.

Because otherwise the blind people of Iowa would be oppressed by their government? I'd like to say that your reasoning doesn't hold water but that would be a bit like saying that all you need is some DYI to repair the Titanic.

Quote
Quote
Let's allow them to be fighter pilots, too. Plenty of visually impaired people out there should be allowed to realise their dreams, ffs.

 :agreed: :indeed:

And there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to drive trains. The bloody things are on RAILS, FFS.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2013, 10:54:36 PM »

I don't understand how your right to gun ownership is so encapsulating.  Just the mere mention of any form of gun 'control'  seems to spark a reaction like this.   

Is it really the be all and end all of life?   For people to exercise their right to bear arms.  Even if they can't see?

I may be mistaken, but I get the idea that this dominates the brains of some American's a bit too much.

Perhaps I don't 'get it' because I live in a different part of the world.   :dunno:

I for my part never understood why not all people had the American view on guns, no matter their own gunlaws. How can you not think that owning a gun for self-defence is a right? It has puzzled me since I was 5 years old and my dad told me how hard it was to legally get a gun in Sweden vs. America.

I suppose I used to too.  I love gun's.  Used one in the army (although spent more time polishing and cleaning the mofo than firing it)

When I first moved into this house alone (before the urchin) i paid a lot of money for a Beretta pistol.  I was scared (Birmingham is twinned with scumsville) and had been burgled at my previous address.  I  came home to find them still upstairs ransacking my knickers drawer.  Hence the reason i got the pistol.

I rarely talk about it, and don't brag about it because it is gone.  One night while I was asleep on my sofa someone came through my patio door (ok ok it wasn't locked) and took the fucker from my hand.  While I slept.

Despite this, I still kept my views about owning a gun and that didn't change until I became a mom and this coincided with several 'massacre' incidents in the US involving children.  This made me believe that children have a right to grow up free from fear of being gunned down in their playground and that their right to do this supersedes anyone else's right to own a gun.  I know it is not that simple.  I can conveniently make it simple living in England.  :tard:

I ask you this with as much respect as possible... (seriously, no attempt at trolling)

Do you believe that another's rights end where your feelings begin?

Do you side with safety or freedom?

What if someone wanted to take away coffee because a child had a caffeine overdose? Would you have the same opinion?


What if someone wanted to take away cars because a child was hit by one? Would you have the same opinion?

I can't muster the minimal amount of energy required to answer your caffeine and car question.  I think my sarcasm would confuse you too much.

FWIW I really couldn't give two shits and a fuck if you have guns.  Stories of people shooting each other in America cause me little or no reaction.  Gangs, police, burglars - I am indifferent.  I wouldn't bother to comment if it was limited to these groups.

It isn't, though, is it? 

I can't speak for the world and his wife but I tend to take notice when kids are massacred.  Call me crazy,  but those tiny white coffins bother the hell out of me.

I don't have the solution.  Maybe some of the things suggested might not work.  Fucking try?  JUST TRY MAKING IT A LITTLE BIT HARDER FOR NUTTERS TO GET HOLD OF THESE WEAPONS!

Do nothing and the past will keep repeating.  Any potential nutjob  in the making already knows how to go out with a bang.  They know already  who to target to make 'world' news? 

Or just don't bother.  Keep your kids as sitting ducks.  Then whine again about your rights every time it happens.  If it hasn't already, it will soon become less shocking.  Hurt less.  You could even extend your 'rights for all' to kids themselves!  Opportunity knocks for someone to design a nice lightweight weapon to fit in a school satchel. 

My answer to you is about as respectful as your questions to me.   Still happy to talk to Rage or Lit who have not asked silly questions.

A better solution is to treat the "nutters" before they shoot anyone. Rather than viewing them as evil, view them as sick. If you're looking to prevent school shootings, then take steps to prevent people from becoming school shooters. Stop bullying: 87% of school shooters were victims of bullying. Institute a system to allow for quick intervention if someone discusses a shooting. Fund more social workers in schools. These are all steps that could help. Ultimately, the problem isn't the guns; it's the people. Guns are just tools: they can be used for good or for evil, depending on the user.

If you think TA's trolling, even though he said otherwise, then believe so. However, I ask his question again: do you generally believe that it's better to be safe or to be free in areas where those values conflict? It seems like you have chosen safety over freedom. I would choose the opposite.

Source

How would you find them? How would you spot the loner who might bring his dad's gun to school one day but leave be the other loner who is, I dunno, a spazz, like you and me? And if the former said "no, I promise, I won't shoot anyone, never even entertained the idea", would you bring him in by force?

And how would that be supporting your notion of personal freedom?

You seem like a rational person, Semi, rational and reasonable, but I sense the opposite when discussing guns.

Guns are not about freedom, basically. They have nothing to do with it other than on the surface, they are tools that can be used for just the opposite. In fact, they are more often used for just the opposite, in spite of what your 18th century principles would suggest.

But the question here is why the fuck anyone in their right mind would think it's OK to give a gun to someone legally blind, shrug and say that they are just as liable as anyone else?

You talk about prevention in one case but reject the idea in another.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2013, 10:57:33 PM »
Semicolon is right, but, like someone said on a Swedish board about this matter: the politicians don't do what's the most reasonable thing to do. They do what the majority thinks is right, which in this case is wrong, beacuse the majority in Europe is brainwashed by antigun propaganda.

There are shootings almost every week in Göteborg, the second largest city in Sweden. The shooters are in principle 100% immigrants with illegal guns. What do the dumbfuck politicians suggest should be done about it? More restrictions on legal guns!  :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2:

That's a bit dishonest of you, Lit, as I assume you've read the papers or followed the news. I have yet to spot a single instance of a politician suggesting gun control in connection with the latest shootings. I have seen several discuss the matter of segregation, discussing witness protection and such, however.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2013, 10:58:40 PM »
So I think the key issue here is CRIME CONTROL. Not gun control. Right?

Read my reply instead of using Lit's comment to support your tangent. This is how hyperbole happens.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2013, 11:00:00 PM »
Any other solution proposals? Pyraxis asked some valid questions, which lead to me saying that anyone who wants a gun should be trained to use it by military cadre.

Anything more to add?

Yes. Don't allow someone legally blind to carry a gun. If that is limiting their rights, then so be it.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2013, 11:05:43 PM »
The psycho gets taken out before he does a load of damage - yes i like that!

But, what if no one capable is there?  :dunno:


Training is a good idea though.  Perhaps a psycho could be spotted also, during the procedure.

The problem with psychos is to spot them.

It seems to me that very often, people who knew the shooter say how *normal* they seemed to be. Normal and loved and incapable of harming anyone. After the fact.

That's about when the media reveal the shooter was diagnosed with a mental illness such as AS.

Yes, spotting and helping and preventing is a good idea, and I fully support it. But I don't think it's the magic bullet. Pun intended.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2013, 11:08:20 PM »
In other news, the earth wants to inact legislation from the milky way to enable hoodlum rogue elements out in space otherwise known as asteroids, to please get a life. hitting innocent planetary bodies without the right documentation is, well. a scandal

Loled. But there is a problem. I'm being overly critical, I know. But think about this, okay? I obviously see the satirical comparison on unfeeling asteroids to unfeeling psychopaths, but I think one may be a little more easy to control than the other, don't you?

Which one?

Serious question, BTW.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2013, 11:09:19 PM »
I'm not mad or anything. I just saw what I felt to be a short circuit in reasoning there, and felt the need to point at it and say, "Hey dude, that might be a problem later."

Quote
you cant figure everyone out although you may try. some people like being sociopathic-psycopaths I thought? I dunno, I thought they were fully aware of their actions? and just don't care.

True enough. But check it out- asteroids are probably harder to figure out and eliminate than buffalo bill, right? They don't care, that's true. Or they wouldn't nonchalantly stroll into a school and murder children, but they do bleed red like the rest of us, and they can be more easily physically overpowered than an asteroid. That's all I was trying to say. I did think your comparison was funny.

On that note, how about more research into the causes and identifying factors of mass shootings and gun violence instead of throwing as many guns into a smelting pot as we can? Can anyone dig that logic?

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_nras_war_on_gun_science/
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Offline Semicolon

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2013, 12:13:16 AM »

I don't understand how your right to gun ownership is so encapsulating.  Just the mere mention of any form of gun 'control'  seems to spark a reaction like this.   

Is it really the be all and end all of life?   For people to exercise their right to bear arms.  Even if they can't see?

I may be mistaken, but I get the idea that this dominates the brains of some American's a bit too much.

Perhaps I don't 'get it' because I live in a different part of the world.   :dunno:

I for my part never understood why not all people had the American view on guns, no matter their own gunlaws. How can you not think that owning a gun for self-defence is a right? It has puzzled me since I was 5 years old and my dad told me how hard it was to legally get a gun in Sweden vs. America.

I suppose I used to too.  I love gun's.  Used one in the army (although spent more time polishing and cleaning the mofo than firing it)

When I first moved into this house alone (before the urchin) i paid a lot of money for a Beretta pistol.  I was scared (Birmingham is twinned with scumsville) and had been burgled at my previous address.  I  came home to find them still upstairs ransacking my knickers drawer.  Hence the reason i got the pistol.

I rarely talk about it, and don't brag about it because it is gone.  One night while I was asleep on my sofa someone came through my patio door (ok ok it wasn't locked) and took the fucker from my hand.  While I slept.

Despite this, I still kept my views about owning a gun and that didn't change until I became a mom and this coincided with several 'massacre' incidents in the US involving children.  This made me believe that children have a right to grow up free from fear of being gunned down in their playground and that their right to do this supersedes anyone else's right to own a gun.  I know it is not that simple.  I can conveniently make it simple living in England.  :tard:

I ask you this with as much respect as possible... (seriously, no attempt at trolling)

Do you believe that another's rights end where your feelings begin?

Do you side with safety or freedom?

What if someone wanted to take away coffee because a child had a caffeine overdose? Would you have the same opinion?


What if someone wanted to take away cars because a child was hit by one? Would you have the same opinion?

I can't muster the minimal amount of energy required to answer your caffeine and car question.  I think my sarcasm would confuse you too much.

FWIW I really couldn't give two shits and a fuck if you have guns.  Stories of people shooting each other in America cause me little or no reaction.  Gangs, police, burglars - I am indifferent.  I wouldn't bother to comment if it was limited to these groups.

It isn't, though, is it? 

I can't speak for the world and his wife but I tend to take notice when kids are massacred.  Call me crazy,  but those tiny white coffins bother the hell out of me.

I don't have the solution.  Maybe some of the things suggested might not work.  Fucking try?  JUST TRY MAKING IT A LITTLE BIT HARDER FOR NUTTERS TO GET HOLD OF THESE WEAPONS!

Do nothing and the past will keep repeating.  Any potential nutjob  in the making already knows how to go out with a bang.  They know already  who to target to make 'world' news? 

Or just don't bother.  Keep your kids as sitting ducks.  Then whine again about your rights every time it happens.  If it hasn't already, it will soon become less shocking.  Hurt less.  You could even extend your 'rights for all' to kids themselves!  Opportunity knocks for someone to design a nice lightweight weapon to fit in a school satchel. 

My answer to you is about as respectful as your questions to me.   Still happy to talk to Rage or Lit who have not asked silly questions.

A better solution is to treat the "nutters" before they shoot anyone. Rather than viewing them as evil, view them as sick. If you're looking to prevent school shootings, then take steps to prevent people from becoming school shooters. Stop bullying: 87% of school shooters were victims of bullying. Institute a system to allow for quick intervention if someone discusses a shooting. Fund more social workers in schools. These are all steps that could help. Ultimately, the problem isn't the guns; it's the people. Guns are just tools: they can be used for good or for evil, depending on the user.

If you think TA's trolling, even though he said otherwise, then believe so. However, I ask his question again: do you generally believe that it's better to be safe or to be free in areas where those values conflict? It seems like you have chosen safety over freedom. I would choose the opposite.

Source

How would you find them? How would you spot the loner who might bring his dad's gun to school one day but leave be the other loner who is, I dunno, a spazz, like you and me? And if the former said "no, I promise, I won't shoot anyone, never even entertained the idea", would you bring him in by force?

And how would that be supporting your notion of personal freedom?

Your logic is faulty, Odeon. Although it seems to work, you can't work backwards from who is destined to be a school shooter. People have free will, and they control their own destinies. It's a matter of probabilities and warning signs. As for the actual process, here are two links that outline the general principles.

Quote from: odeon
You seem like a rational person, Semi, rational and reasonable, but I sense the opposite when discussing guns.

Guns are not about freedom, basically. They have nothing to do with it other than on the surface, they are tools that can be used for just the opposite. In fact, they are more often used for just the opposite, in spite of what your 18th century principles would suggest.

A gun is a tool in the sense that a screwdriver is a tool. I already said that. Whether it is used for good or evil depends on the user.

Quote from: Odeon
But the question here is why the fuck anyone in their right mind would think it's OK to give a gun to someone legally blind, shrug and say that they are just as liable as anyone else?

You talk about prevention in one case but reject the idea in another.

I don't see any contradiction. Responsible gun ownership is a matter of individual capability. You keep posting bare assertions instead of backing yourself up, as if we're all supposed to accept without proof that no legally blind people is capable of using a gun. There are many types of blind. Do you think that all blind people see nothing except a cloud of black?

Rather than letting stereotypes of the blind rule the discussion, let's have some evidence. Here is a series of pictures that depict the US definition of "legally blind". Look especially at the last one. Would you argue that an individual with that impairment couldn't go to a shooting range and safely blast a few holes in a paper target?





« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 12:16:37 AM by Semicolon »
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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #88 on: September 13, 2013, 02:19:39 AM »
Because otherwise the blind people of Iowa would be oppressed by their government? I'd like to say that your reasoning doesn't hold water but that would be a bit like saying that all you need is some DYI to repair the Titanic.

Well, in Iowa they obviously think so  :orly:

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Re: Iowa FTW
« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2013, 02:25:13 AM »
Semicolon is right, but, like someone said on a Swedish board about this matter: the politicians don't do what's the most reasonable thing to do. They do what the majority thinks is right, which in this case is wrong, beacuse the majority in Europe is brainwashed by antigun propaganda.

There are shootings almost every week in Göteborg, the second largest city in Sweden. The shooters are in principle 100% immigrants with illegal guns. What do the dumbfuck politicians suggest should be done about it? More restrictions on legal guns!  :facepalm2: :facepalm2: :facepalm2:

That's a bit dishonest of you, Lit, as I assume you've read the papers or followed the news. I have yet to spot a single instance of a politician suggesting gun control in connection with the latest shootings. I have seen several discuss the matter of segregation, discussing witness protection and such, however.

It was a bit opaque what that woman really meant.

But there was a new suggestion recently about more infringements on gun ownership. In America they go the other way, which is a luck, since all other things in America seem to be totally wrong these days.