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Author Topic: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse  (Read 1075 times)

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Offline bodie

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Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« on: July 24, 2013, 07:04:32 AM »
I have been reading a lot about Iraqi women lately.  Mainly about how their lives have been made worse since the war of 2003. There are many widows, and I believe the population of women in Iraq is something like 65%.

The stories of suffering and brutality I have read are shocking.  Their lives were better under Saddam.

I do not understand why the world and his wife are not doing a fat lot to help them.  The 'powers' that be seem only motivated to interfere where oil is concerned.  :(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/28/iraq-women-rights-us-news
'Women [in Iraq] are being killed simply for being women," says Nadje Al-Ali when I meet her at her home in south London. "In Basra in 2008 a reported 133 women were killed for not 'being Islamic' enough. And these are only the ones that made it to be officially counted. I saw the police photos - they were horrific."

Al-Ali's new book, What Kind of Liberation? Women and the Occupation of Iraq, analyses how Iraqi women have fared since the US invasion of March 2003. The news, unsurprisingly, is grim. Written with the political scientist Nicola Pratt, the book is based on interviews with 120 women, including Iraqi women's rights activists, NGO workers and international policymakers. The climate that they describe in Iraq is one of lawless "hyper-patriarchy", and with this evidence in tow, Al-Ali and Pratt take aim at a wide range of targets. These include the occupying powers, extremist Islamist militias, Iraqi leaders and "imperialist feminists" (those who claim solidarity with women from developing countries while stereotyping their cultures as barbaric).

Al-Ali, 42, is a second-generation Iraqi immigrant whose extended family has seen the sharpest end of both Saddam Hussein's regime and the post-invasion chaos. An established author and academic at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, she is staunchly "anti-imperialist and anti-war" but finds herself regularly at odds with some of her natural allies, who object to her speaking out against Iraqi resistance fighters. Still, Al-Ali believes it's important to take this stance. "A significant proportion of Iraqi groups engaged in armed resistance against the occupation are also harassing, intimidating and even murdering ordinary Iraqis," she says, "particularly women and vulnerable groups."

In her book she highlights the fact that, as a result of consecutive wars, the Iraqi population is now disproportionately female - with some estimates putting the ratio of women to men at 65/35. There are 300,000 impoverished widows in Baghdad alone, forced to run their households on two hours of electricity a day. As early as July 2003 a Human Rights Watch report highlighted "the vulnerability of women and girls to sexual violence and abduction", and kidnaps that target women (often related to sex trafficking) have increased since the start of the war, as have female suicide rates and honour killings.

According to Al-Ali's interviewees, women are being bullied back into the home. So, for instance, she focuses on the story of Sarwa Abdul Wahab Al Darwish, a 36-year-old television journalist from Mosul whose high profile led her to receive death threats. Then, last May she was dragged from a taxi and killed with a shot to the head in front of her mother. Overall, the book backs up the opinion of an Iraqi journalist I met in London, who says that "occupation has put women's position back to the 1930s".

The fact that George W Bush depicted the invasion of Iraq as a path to women's empowerment makes the situation even more outrageous. In her book, Al-Ali meticulously explains how Condoleezza Rice and Laura Bush were deployed to reassure the world that the US was concerned with women's liberation - Laura Bush being wheeled out for photo-opportunities with US organisations such as Women for Free Iraq.

How has such posturing in Washington affected women's lives in Iraq? "It helped to legitimise the invasion in the first place," says Al-Ali. But surely no one really believed that the war was about liberating Iraqi women? "There's an imperialist brand of feminism that's very widespread in the States," she says. "When I give talks there, women's rights [in Muslim culture] are always the one big 'but' for anti-war peace activists." Al-Ali feels that the cynical use of the women's rights discourse by the US has also led to a backlash against feminist activists in Iraq, who can be easily undermined, or even vilified, by being accused of supporting an American agenda.

Does she see the establishment of a 25% quota for women in the Iraqi parliament as a sign of progress? "Yes," she concedes, "but who are the 25% in practice? They are the sisters, daughters and wives of the male conservative leaders. They've no political background and when there's a vote they look around to see what the men are doing before they lift their hands. However, yes it is a positive because it has allowed six to eight secular women's rights activists into parliament who wouldn't have got in otherwise."

The book repeatedly suggests that extremist Islamist groups are forcing Taliban-like conditions on Iraqi women - surprising given the cultural differences between Afghanistan and Iraq, where women have typically been well educated. How real is this threat? "It's very real," says Al-Ali. "In 2004, it was simply leaflets telling women to veil, and many of the women I spoke to said, 'If this is the only thing I have to do to go on with my life as normal, OK.' Soon it moved on to students at Basra university being threatened if they didn't agree to gender-segregated classes." Now, article 41 in the new Iraqi constitution effectively repeals the existing, and relatively progressive, laws governing marriage and divorce.

When I point out that throughout the book Islam only ever appears as a destructive force Al-Ali is rattled. Her use of the slippery term "Islamists" at times seems interchangeable with "terrorist insurgents", and progressives are invariably tagged with the approving "secular" but never "Muslim". She defends herself by saying that in the past she has "clashed with fundamentalist secular groups [in the anti-war movement] who say the problem in Iraq is Islam. Most of the secular women activists we refer to are practising Muslims."

Al-Ali was born to a German mother and an Iraqi father who had moved to Europe to study. She grew up in a non-religious household in Germany, and it wasn't until she attended university in Tucson, Arizona - where she met a circle of confident second-generation Arabs - that she began to think about her roots. On graduating, she moved to Egypt and became involved in the women's movement, before starting a PhD in London. By chance, she rented a room from the feminist sociologist Cynthia Cockburn and for the next few years found herself at the hub of an international network of peace activists.

In 2000, she established Act Together - Women's Action for Iraq - a group opposing economic sanctions against Iraq, and then against the invasion. This was followed, in 2007, by her book Iraqi Women - Untold Stories from 1948 to the Present, a social history of the women's movement. Al-Ali dedicated the book to her aunt Salima, a cancer patient who died in May 2003 after she developed severe breathing difficulties and a curfew in Baghdad prevented her from getting to hospital.

The short description of the night of Salima's death - when one of her male relatives went out into the neighbourhood, risking his life to find oxygen - fizzes with fury. The family had already coped with one of Al-Ali's uncles being executed under Saddam, and they remained in Baghdad until the murder of her nephew and another uncle in August 2007 at the family home, for what she now believes to be either political or sectarian reasons. "They thought they were safe, knowing all their neighbours, so they were just sitting in the kitchen when they strolled in and shot them." The rest of the family fled from Iraq to Jordan, thereby joining the two million Iraqis abroad. They put the three young men of the family on a plane to Syria for safety but they were turned back, forced to return to Baghdad. "We were very, very scared," says Al-Ali, "and there's only so much one can do from the outside."

Al-Ali treads a difficult path with caution. Like many, she believes that Iraqi women can never be "liberated" by western military intervention, but by speaking out against the Iraqi resistance, she has often alienated those in the anti-war movement. Ultimately, she doesn't know how much difference her work can make - she tells me that she often feels impotent watching atrocities in Iraq unfold on the news. But she is adamant that the future of Iraq depends on the energy and fearlessness of the grass roots women's groups that were much in evidence just after the invasion. It was they who went into hospitals and schools to salvage them and who have managed to co-operate across sectarian battle lines. "I hate the picture of Iraqi women as passive victims of honour crimes and bombs," she says. "I really want to break this".
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Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 07:35:12 AM »
It makes a whole lot of sense. In really simplistic terms, if you consider that war creates fear and fear creates extremism and fearful people attack the vulnerable, I can see how Western intervention could be responsible for making the situation of women and children that much worse.

Also I love the concept of an imperialist feminist and I'm glad somebody's speaking out against that particular strain of hypocrisy.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 07:52:52 AM »
How are the men in Iraq coping? 65%/35% sounds like there has been a severe reduction in the male population. In fact it sounds like the men have been getting killed off at a much higher rate.

Here is something to consider. The regimes and culture is restrictive and oppressive on both genders. The men have to both protect the women of the family and risk their very lives being the ones imposed on being te social and head of the family. The stats sure show that the going out of the house not a safe or even really good option for men. Yet the same culture disallows women to expose themselves in such away but instead traps them at home.

I do not think there will be an article anytime soon about how poorly men fare after Saddam Hussein or the "liberation". Damned if i will write it either.

The war was never going to help the society or the people and all the people suffer.....even the women.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

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Offline bodie

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 08:51:03 AM »
I think the life of the women in Iraq could be considered worse than men just because of their status, or lack of.

Bush actually made a point of announcing a pledge to help the women in Iraq.  I don't know what happened there.
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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 08:57:06 AM »
It doesn't matter. Black or white, men or women. This is dumb. Life there is fucking shitty. Period.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2013, 09:09:28 AM »
I think the life of the women in Iraq could be considered worse than men just because of their status, or lack of.

Bush actually made a point of announcing a pledge to help the women in Iraq.  I don't know what happened there.

I think the moment Bush announced Mission Accomplished he has tried to wash his hands of things.

I think you are dead wrong about women's status or the men being worse off.

You know , I would imagine, that women there (predominantly Muslim) are able to (according to their teachings) get jobs as men are and that the women have no duty to share any proceeds with their family, whereas the men are obliged to use their earnings to look after women and their children.
So shit goes down and the country is invaded over and over. Culture and society is shattered and jobs are limited. Now, better the men taking the limited jobs and sharing with the family or women getting jobs and not obliged to share with the family? Better men (the disposable ones) risking their lives exposing themselves to danger as the public face while the women and children (the valuable ones) stay inside the confines of the house?

What status tells me here is simply that men here are more likely to be killed, men are being killed at a faster rate than women. The society is sandwiched between Warlords and Taliban and trying to appease both. Men are trying to protect their women from both and invaders and getting killed for their efforts. The gender roles are restrictive on both and neither can get back to where they were before the string of invasions, when society there was advanced and progressive.

So status of women? Women doing it tougher than men while men are getting killed off 2 to 1?
I would be interested to see what you mean. I honestly don't see it.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Adam

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2013, 02:18:00 PM »
You don't see that women have lower status in Iraq? LOL

Or is it ONLY about violence?

Even then, women have the problems of "honour" killings, domestic violence and FGM

Offline bodie

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2013, 02:47:03 PM »
I am not dismissing the hardship faced by men.  However, this post was about the specific hardships faced by the women of Iraq.

I have not been to Iraq so knowledge of it comes via the media.  Perhaps you are correct about the jobs market,  but it is not the story I get from the article posted and others I have read.

I must make a correction about the 65/35 ratio as I could find no other data to support it apart from The Guardian.  I believe that ratio relates to a certain age group and not the whole population.  It is disproportionate due to war casualties.

I came across the employment to population ratio for women in Iraq aged 15-24 and that was 2.6%,  the overall ratio for women was 10%

I found no data relating to how these small number of women actually spent their wages.  Nothing suggesting they did not use their income to support their family.

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Offline bodie

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2013, 03:05:41 PM »
You don't see that women have lower status in Iraq? LOL

Or is it ONLY about violence?

Even then, women have the problems of "honour" killings, domestic violence and FGM

I have read about women getting raped and/ or killed because they appear to be 'not muslim enough'    :dunno:

The UK was part of a coalition that went to war on Iraq and it appears to have left the situation of womens rights and human rights to be knocked back about 80 years.  It pisses me off because I know some folks are sat in their armchairs thinking 'good job'.
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Offline Jack

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2013, 03:49:13 PM »
It's hard to change the sociology of another country; not so sure it's even a right thing to do, and some cultures don't want such changes imposed on them. Centuries of cultural standards can't be undone in a decade. This type of change is generational in those who want change, and can't be completely accomplished until the older generations are gone.

Offline Adam

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »
It should be done, with things like child marriage, LGBT equality, castes, FGM etc

I don't mean by flying in and bombing the shit out of them of course. but "culture" is no excuse

Offline bodie

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2013, 04:11:13 PM »
I agree.

I thought at the time it was the right thing to do.  The war I mean.

I don't know what to think now.

It appears that we (the coalition of armed forces) have tinkered and dabbled and played God and just made life harder for a lot of people.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2013, 04:12:37 PM »
I'm glad that fucker Saddam Hussein is gone, but yeh, we have made a complete fucking MESS of it all

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2013, 04:16:13 PM »
It should be done, with things like child marriage, LGBT equality, castes, FGM etc

I don't mean by flying in and bombing the shit out of them of course. but "culture" is no excuse
Not saying it's an excuse, but rather a generational mentality. It's the kind of change that takes decades, and any comparable sociological issue can be used as a comparison.

Offline bodie

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Re: Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2013, 04:17:23 PM »
Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.
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