People's views regarding transpeople

[Al Swearegen]

Les if you can't see a point, I suggest you go back to school and learn how to read with comprehension otherwise I'm afraid I can't really help you here.  Yes, I'm an NT but what the hell does that have to do with this thread?    I guess it is a way to avoid saying how you really feel about trans people.  I haven't forgotten that post you made about Soph on ZOMG.

No the fault lies in your ability to make your point understood. You are all over the place like a mad woman's shit.
I have not avoided saying how I feel about transgendered people and nor have others. The almost complete forum answer to what they think of transgender people generally is that they don't give a rat's whether someone is transgender or not. Why should we have any investment?
It unsurprisingly is not a big factor in our lives.

That has little to do with the video though does it?
No the video was specifically saying how horrible the non-transgendered people were to the transgendered person. I think humanity is just shitty and a similar result would hold sway regardless of whether that person was transgendered or not, because people are people. You have something obviously to show that there was bias with all the people concerned due to the victims gender identification? No? Making a point? No? Me needing comprehension because "I" can't back what I am saying? Shitty projection there Bint.

I too remember what you said about my kids so don't stand in the pulpit.

[odeon]

Odeon, here is the post I was referring to:

Galileo Ace had a sex change operation and posts from time to time as Kayleigh.

GA hasn't had a sex change operation but does post as Kayleigh now.

I thought she had the operation. Sorry

No he learned to "tuck"

And? Being trans makes him more sensitive to jokes?

I have no problems with people being trans. Whatever floats anyone's boat, etc. I'm basically indifferent, but anything hinting at special treatment is also a no-no for me.

[Binty]

I don't care about indifference to trans people.  I care about indifference to transphobia, which seems all too apparent here.  Usually any other ***phobia or bigotry is immediately challenged.  Transphobia never is, which bothers me greatly considering at least two members here (three not counting TOW) are trans.

I too remember what you said about my kids so don't stand in the pulpit.

What you seem to be forgetting was that your disgusting post was unprovoked.  My one on the other hand, was written after much provocation from you.  It doesn't excuse it I know but I don't think the two can be compared.

[Al Swearegen]

I'm horrified.

Not by the attack. The attack absolutely sickened me. Even though it may not have driven by gender, the arsehole who filmed it thought it was.



He was fired.

What horrifies me is the responses in this thread. I'm really at a loss for the right words.

You all need to go back and read my threads on trans issues, particularly the arguments I had with Hadron and Calandale about what defines a woman. I'm looking at you again Odeon. I can't believe you wheeled out the tired cliche that a woman is only her reproductive system (functional or not). You've basically wilfully denied identity to millions of intersex people and to millions of transpeople. According to you, I'll never be a woman, and Soph will always be a woman. Can you fathom how offensive that is?

To put it into an autism context, it's about as offensive as AutismSpeaks telling us that we're burdens to our families and whatever. You basically became AutismSpeaks. Telling us, Soph and I, us trans people, what we are and what we are not without actually taking trans-perspectives into account. Congratulations. You're an arsehole.

I seriously hope that none of your children are trans. Whilst I'd never wish being trans upon anyone, I think it'd be the cruellest thing to have to be trans and have parents like you.

Not that I think you're any decent at parenting anyway. I know this because of the hours I've spent researching how your parents your children, and time I've invested in understanding what's it's like to be a parents and all the difficulties thereof. I feel that I have enough information to declare you all bad parents.

In case you didn't realise, the previous paragraph was sarcastic. I know next to nothing about how your parent your children, and have no right to have any say on the validity of how you go about it. But somehow, you do have a valid right to tell me I'll never be a women. To tell me that calling me 'she' is too difficult for you, aww I'm sorry my existence is difficult for you (that last was dripping with bitter sarcasm).

You're wrong. I don't "want" to be a woman. I am a woman. This is not a psychological error any more than autism is. Both trans and autism are neurobiological in nature. Basically a physical error in the brain.

Neurobiological = Hardware
Psychological = Software

I am the way I am, trans, autistics, adhd, possibly dyslexic, whatever else, because of errors in my brain and brain chemistry. I didn't just wake up one day and think "I want to be a woman, la da di di da". My first memory of realising I was supposed to be a girl was when I was 9, though my childmind processed that as wanting. FUCKING 9 years of age. I also tried to commit suicide that year. AT FUCKING NINE! This has always been a long term thing for me, I always had to deal with these feelings, that I was not male. Do you even know how hard I fought to "be male"? You really have no idea what I put myself through. The levels of suppression I went, suppressing my emotions, putting up walls in my mind, blocking out thoughts and ideas. It was so so hard

And now I have to deal with the repercussions of that. I have to deal with trying to bring down those walls, to learn how to deal with emotions properly and not just mentally run away from them. The depressions I get into because I can't control my negative emotions. The freakouts I have because some idea or thought or comment has trigged something in my mind. THAT'S FUCKING PSYCHOLOGICAL. THAT'S BECAUSE I TRIED TO BE MALE.

But, since I have begun transitioning, I have begun to live. Before, when I was Joshua. I had no life. I merely existed. I had no dreams, no goals. I didn't care enough. I just wanted to stay home and lose myself in stories (tv shows, games, movies, books etc). I now have dreams. I now have goals. I now have a life. I'm going places, I'm doing stuff. I'm engaging with the world in ways I never even realised. Don't you dare take that away from me.

I do know how hard it is for those around me to process this. I know the shit I've put renaeden through, and I will be eternally sorry for that. But I can't change what I am. Just the shell I am in. And renaeden has become supportive of Kayleigh. I know she misses Joshua, and I feel for her. But he is no longer, he never existed. He was a shell personality, put in place to try and fit in with the world in the way everyone was telling me to.

People telling you can't do this, you can't do that. Just as you have done today.

Well. FUCK YOU. I'll be who I want to be. I am Kayleigh. A woman.



I would like to note that this post was only directed at people like Odeon, Callaway and Swearengen. This is intended to be my last post on this forum*. I don't need people like you in my life any more. I've moved on.

(*=I reserve the right to change my mind)

I still don't care Kayleigh/GA.

You have actually no real idea how anyone feels or thinks but are quite happy to latch on with the tenacity of a leg humping poodle to any bigotry defined, implied or in most cases imagined and try to rail against everyone and give us a Transgenderism 101 and a sermon or too for good measure.

We don't actually need to know or understand Transgenderism. Autism, sure. Transgenderism...not so much. We sure as hell don't need to take any notice of a self-righteous loser like yourself.

You are an arrogant blow-hard bigot and I have highlighted this before.

Post or don't post. I feel you bring fuck all to the forum as is and I doubt I will be crying at night mourning your absence.

Love

Al.

[Al Swearegen]

I don't care about indifference to trans people.  I care about indifference to transphobia, which seems all too apparent here.  Usually any other ***phobia or bigotry is immediately challenged.  Transphobia never is, which bothers me greatly considering at least two members here (three not counting TOW) are trans.

I too remember what you said about my kids so don't stand in the pulpit.

What you seem to be forgetting was that your disgusting post was unprovoked.  My one on the other hand, was written after much provocation from you.  It doesn't excuse it I know but I don't think the two can be compared.

Bint let me put it a little simpler to you. You to me are about the same level of credibility and value as Sol or Razorbeard.

I really think the transphobia happening in the forum leading up to this latest bullshit...is simply in your feeble head and you are just attention whoring again.

I may be wrong and I don't care if that is the case.

It is you after all.

[odeon]

GA, a few points:

I did not make those definitions. They were there long before I was conceived or you decided you are really a woman in a man's body. You find it offensive that I won't accept your changing those definitions? Tough.

I'm autistic but I have always considered autism to be disability. It's fucked up wiring or something--what is not important in this context--but it also happens to define a lot of who I am.  It's an inseparable part of me. Why it happened is less important because it still defines me and I am what I am. It doesn't offend me the least if the rest of the population thinks "disability" because that disability is an undeniable fact. The world is mostly made of people who don't have that disability.

In that same way, it should not matter to you *why* you feel the way you do. Is it a larger biological error (I use "larger" simply because I am assuming that such an error is more complex) or is it a wiring problem in the brain, such as I am assuming autism to be? Doesn't really matter to you because you will still be you. I don't know why you are trans and I don't care. I also doubt you know why, but you are not being objective about it. Instead you require me and everybody else to follow your subjective party line as to the "why", including the definitions you now like to change to suit your purposes, and are offended when we won't.

Doesn't work that way. Sulk all you want but I remain basically indifferent and will use the definitions I consider to make sense and follow a biological reality as far as I can determine. If scientists find plausible cause to change these definitions, I will probably change mine, but it takes more than subjective views and sulking.

Oh, and bye.

[Binty]

Les if you don't care why do you continue posting?

Oh and:

Nothing to back it, but why not throw it out there. I mean you are a credible type Soph.

You really want something to roll on the floor laughing over? I am going to make an imaginary scenario and see if you can see how comical this is. Imagine a woman in her early 20's. Imagine them a skinny, small boobed, high-voiced and plain faced. Imagine them as identifying themselves as male. They are interested in women and consider themselves a transgendered heterosexual man.

They lust after women like most heterosexual men but of course comes the interesting question. What sort of woman would want such a person and what and more so HOW would they find them sexually appealing? See a transgendered person like this would "look" like , sound like, be cultured and socialised as a female. So...the transgendered person would be "projecting as best they can as a male and any female that may be attracted are likely to have to either be attracted to that person who is for all intents female (a plain, skinny, nondescript, tomboy-dressed one - but one nevertheless), and have to get their mind over the whole different mental gender to the physical one.

May be easier for perhaps a lesbian female or bi-sexual female to make that mental divide and be attracted as though the person was a lesbian girl. I mean it would be semantics really. Except of course to the transgendered person. But let's say this plain looking person who looks like a plain girl, sounds like a plain girl and behaves....well pretty much like a plain girl, manages someone to get a girl into bed. Suddenly the REALLY funny bit happen (ready for teh real rotfl bit). You have a physical girl who for reasons which are probably funny in their own right wanting to screw this "man". What does our transgendered man have to make this meeting a success? They have wooed them as a male but don't have the "equipment". Mentally they have projected male and got this interest on board as a male. They have sold the image and now it is time for physically carry through with the contract.

Physical reality is girl on girl sex is lesbian sex and that is all they can offer. But do them want a lesbian experience with their love interest. Sexual experience will be tainted in the transgendered person's mind as knowing they probably were just attracted to them as a woman to a woman and the satisfaction (or not due to the physical attraction of form. A female form.
Now that sounds quite daunting. If I was that transgendered person I would be shit scared and completely screwed up and avoid sex. In fact I would probably be a virgin into my 20's.

What a total fuck up that person would be huh? A total fucking Idiot. :lol: Soph you still rofl? Funny huh?

No need to thank me  

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

What's with all the guests here? I noticed this flocking after GA's post.

[odeon]

I don't care about indifference to trans people.  I care about indifference to transphobia, which seems all too apparent here.  Usually any other ***phobia or bigotry is immediately challenged.  Transphobia never is, which bothers me greatly considering at least two members here (three not counting TOW) are trans.

I too remember what you said about my kids so don't stand in the pulpit.

What you seem to be forgetting was that your disgusting post was unprovoked.  My one on the other hand, was written after much provocation from you.  It doesn't excuse it I know but I don't think the two can be compared.

I treat every member here the same, basically, because trying to treat some with kid gloves or whatever it is you require is too much work. How these people treat me can change the way I treat them, but that's about it. The fact that some are trans will, in other words, not change a lot. Soph is the one to give me the most trouble because right from the start I had difficulty determining his gender so those labels probably changed from one day to the next. Soph is usually funny and witty and open to debate, and therefore fun to talk to, especially with this second account. The first was a bit too emo for me.

GA, on the other hand, is far too sensitive for a board like this, far too likely to take offence when people are simply voicing opinions without a personal investment. He is highly subjective and will often confuse the issues at hand, IMO.

And Squiddy (not sure I'm right in including him here but I'm pretty sure he won't care) is a lot of fun. Doesn't take himself too seriously, is witty and open, and is secure enough to ignore a grumpy old man like me inadvertently stepping on sensitive toes.

[Al Swearegen]

Thank you? I still don't give a shit.
I also do not see the point you are trying to make. Have I purposely tried to have a go at Soph before? Yes. Was it visceral? Yes. Have I denied it ever? Nope.

Try for a point Bint/Blasted

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,13367.0.html

Blasted
   
   
The reason why...
« on: January 31, 2010, 04:01:03 PM »
   
Sir Les' son is miserable in these pics is probably coz Les fucks him up the arse everyday before bedtime.  Something should be done about this Sad

[
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:13:31 PM by parts » [/b]

This was charming too BTW and you don't need to thank me.


Oh and my reason for continuing to post. We have been over this a number of times and it doesn't sink in so i truly wonder why you keep asking. The reason will be the same each time. I post because i am reactive. I see, I react, I type, I hit post and I hit show unread posts and go from there. Next time you ask the response will be the same.

[odeon]

What's with all the guests here? I noticed this flocking after GA's post.

Love is in the air, simple as that.

[Al Swearegen]

Did Bint actually make any real point or was she just spewing emotional disjointed vitriol?

It is a big ask is it? Back your assertions? When challenged she trots out any unrelated points rather than backs her original assertions and in effects derails her own thread.

Is her assertion that Transgendered people in society are marginalised?
Is it that there has been an expressed and continued disregard for transgendered people here?
Is it that Transgendered members are marginalised here?
Is it that Transphobia is rampant on I2?
Is it that in times gone by Soph, Me and Bint have got more than a little horrid with each other?
Is it that members ought to be sharing the same values as her or as Soph or Kayleigh (and if so .... why the fuck should we?)?

As I say comprehension is not the issue. Make a claim. Make it well. Back your assertions and try to make it at least a little meaningful to us.

If we say we don't care and you think we should, then why?
If you say we are all transphobic then prove a claim or at least give a decent account as to show why.
If you say that people are being arseholes in society and marginalising transphobic people then apart from us saying "Yeah that is because transgender people are in a minority - like racist, religious intolerance, homophobia and bigotry of any diversity - it happens and will continue to happen and we understand this as being a marginalised group ourselves, so what?"
If you say people are indifferent to attacks made in public against others and will do anything but defend or get involved 9 times out of 10, again yup that is life....so what?

Back your point and stop jumping around everywhere and getting your knickers in a knot. Back your claim and explain your viewpoint.

[Adam]

Just a few random points as I can't be arsed quoting and addressing people specifically:

Bint's post(s?) about your kids was obviously fucked up and wrong, but she's accepted that and admited that herself. That post to me about me being trans though wasn't just aimed at me, it was towards a group of people as a whole. I'm not saying it was worse than attacking someone's child (as I don't think much that can be said on the internet is worse than that), but it's more relevant to this discussion than that post about your kid, as it was transphobia.
I mean there have been plenty of times on here where I've deserved to be attacked for being an asshole, but surely I deserve to be attacked for ME, not for what I am? Because that isn't just directed at me then - it's directed at a lot of other people too
For example if I was black and I was being a dickhead, would people start throwing racist abuse at me? Or anti-Jewish insults if I was Jewish? imo that would be wrong. Attacking me, my views, my posts, my actions etc is obviously fine, but I think attackign someone for being trans just makes you look weak

As for other people's definitions, people can define things however they like. I agree with Kayleigh that people should refer to someone as he or she depending on what that person identifies as, but that's just my opinion. If people wanna call me she, then they obviously have the right to. I must admit I do wonder why a lot of people still refer to me as she, but I'm not gonna insist people do otherwise, and I hope I never resort to asking people to call me he, as I'd feel like a bit of a pussy if I did that (not saying there's anything wrong with other people doing that tho).

About the video, yeah people are indifferent and won't get involved in someone getting beated up a lot, whether trans or not. So as shitty as it is, I'm not really interested in discussing the video much, although the comments by the person who filmed it say a lot

Also just wanna say i think renaeden is being really great about this by now calling GA she instead of he. I can't imagine what it must be lie to go through something like this, and is one of the reasons I'm glad I accepted being trans fairly early on in life, although I doubt I'd have ever got into a relationship anyway, but you never know.

And yeah my first account on here was 100% emo, embarrrassing to see my old posts
I still have my emo moments but I try to keep it to the minimum, and I think a lot of us get emo sometimes really

[Adam]

wow thazt post was longer than I meant it to be, sorry

[renaeden]

Also just wanna say i think renaeden is being really great about this by now calling GA she instead of he. I can't imagine what it must be lie to go through something like this, and is one of the reasons I'm glad I accepted being trans fairly early on in life, although I doubt I'd have ever got into a relationship anyway, but you never know.

Thanks for saying that. I have recently just thought that I want GA to be happy in whatever she does and if calling her by her desired pronoun makes her feel happy then good. It doesn't solve everything between us but it helps. Because of her I understand trans people more and am more open-minded about it so I see that as a good thing too.