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Author Topic: Did you take your meds today?  (Read 106665 times)

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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5985 on: April 21, 2016, 07:40:03 AM »
Wait....you got PRESCRIBED the speed, and moclobemide, by a dr? good god jumping bastardly shit christ on a stick, he needs to be taken out and shot,

This is a KNOWN and very dangerous combination, good fucking god. I'm at a loss for words, for once. The irreversible MAOI types are absolutely forbidden with stimulants, even dietary tyramine can cause a hypertensive crisis, cause strokes etc. (at least MAO-a inhibitors, selegiline and other MAO-b selective inhibitors of MAO-b are alright, but with care, given selegiline loses selectivity and crosses over to MAO-a inhibition above a certain quite large dose. Ironically, in the case of selegiline it PRODUCES methamphetamine as a metabolite)

RIMAs are a lot safer, and people HAVE taken uppers with them, but damn, its the sort of thing which needs to be carefully monitored as it can easily go wrong.  definitely talk to your doc ren, it
could have been an oversight, it happens, Ive been handed a script for amoxicillin before, seconds after telling the doc responsible I'm severely allergic to beta-lactam antibiotics (a lactam is a cyclized amide), so docs can be monumentally stupid at times, they don't get a free pass on that that we don't get.

Out of curiosity, whats it like, moclobemide, subjectively. The only RIMAs I have taken are the beta-carbolines like harmaline and tetrahydroharmine. I'd be interested if ever I find a source, in trying it to block metabolic degredation of DMT. Taking a pill would sure beat drinking yage' those ayahuasca brew, god DAMN they taste horrendous, probably not the
worst thing I ever tasted, but it sure wasn't far off!


Just took a pramipexole and a couple of tizanidine. Will be taking some morphine in a little while, I'm just getting it ready by grinding it up, the contents of the caps need to soak in
the water for the shot for a while to make sure one gets as much goodness out of the XR matrix as practical w/o my doing a chemical extraction, which takes time, and requires
evaporating off solvents etc before one gets the goods. I'm not waiting that long and I CBF making the effort to do so. I just want do do my shot and get back to the x-com, TFTD
 game running on my pc atm, and back to stuffing 7-packs of 'timeout' bars down me.  I bought quite a few packs as they  were on offer for £1 each

Bugger. I can't find a fresh needle tip, of the kind I'm used to, only a really really hair-fine 31 gauge, which I don't care for, as I find them difficult  and devilish fiddly to use, they bend
far too easily, blunt after just one attempt to locate the vein, rather than being alright to adjust the position of it a bit first, and infuriatingly are SO fine, that on registering (when blood backwashes into the barrel, its how you know your ready, with the needle IN the vein rather than in skin or soft tissue, or one way anyhow, its easy to tell if experienced in doing it, just
from the level of resistance felt on gently pushing the plunger) that the blood can clot, blocking the point and rendering it useless, before you actually finish taking the shot, I mean
while its actually going in, can take long enough to block such a narrow exit. Fiddly and annoying at best, although they at  least hurt less  than the 28g I usually get.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 08:04:46 AM by Lestat »
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Offline "couldbecousin"

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5986 on: April 21, 2016, 08:22:54 AM »
  Why, yes.  Yes I did.  :M :angel:
"I'm finding a lot of things funny lately, but I don't think they are."
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People forget.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5987 on: April 21, 2016, 08:28:46 AM »
Oh, sweet, I won't have to use those old fine gauge needles after all, not yet anyway. They are in sealed strips so fine to use from a safety POV, I just don't like them much.

I just found a single unused 28g in my room. Thats better, now I need not suffer the fiddly, pain in the arse ring that is the 31g or 32 .
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Offline WolFish

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5988 on: April 21, 2016, 09:06:22 AM »
Dang it.
I don't know, I really don't know.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5989 on: April 21, 2016, 10:36:49 AM »
Mmmmmhhhmmm thats much better. My right hip has been subdued, and my pain just had its fangs pulled, and of course now I am most pleasantly relaxed, just like being wrapped in a warmed up duvet made out of feathers and cotton wool, with a very nicely glowing sensation.

And just as good, didn't need to try a second time to put it in, registered perfectly on the very first attempt. Might have made that dose of MS somewhat on the strong side though, because I'm really
having to scrap like a demon in order not to just fall asleep  at the computer with my cigarette lit. Just as well I decided to forgo taking a heminevrin along with the MS, then I would absolutely have
fallen asleep. One slightly annoying thing though is that I'm having a fair bit of orthostatic hypotension, presumably due to the tizanidine and/or clonidine as both are effective at dropping blood
pressure, making my vision blank out and getting dizzy on standing up,  I needed to bend double at the waist when going to draw up the shot of MS and oxy, before I could again see.


Alright lying flat though or  propped up a bit in bed, which I am now. Time to get back to my terror from the deep game methinks, my squad has a terrorist attack by the alien enemy to
suppress, and before that, is currently engaged in wiping out an entire military base of the bastards. Been bloody tough but so far I've not lost a single soldier from my combat diver team. Although its been a long, drawn out bloody mess of a campaign, with the war nowhere NEARLY over, with whilst I haven't had anybody killed, thats not been by much of a margin, plenty near fatal encounters, some critical injuries that would have killed my troops but for the new, if basic armor my science teams developed and engineering works built to order for me, although its meager protection
from the disgustingly powerful ultrasound based sonic weapons the enemy uses, even their smallest sidearm more usually results in an instant kill shot, even to an armored diver, hell, their handguns
alone are powerful enough to cripple and take out heavy tanks, saying nothing of the rifles, or their big fucking great sonic cannons. The one saving grace the sonic weapons have is a complete lack
of an automatic or burst fire capability, one shot is usually quite enough though, and seldom ever, ever survived by an un-armored soldier, although very rarely a sonic pistol round will only inflict a crippling wound that would prove fatal, but not instantly, allowing the newly developed medical kits I now issue to my men (and women of course) to be used to heal an otherwise
deadly wound before it kills the aquanaut, or to restore morale, heal some health etc. shoot them full of painkillers, or to revive a stunned, unconscious one with a stimulant agent.

And the explosive ordinance the buggers use, is so far in excess of the beefiest HEs x-com troops have available without having to capture, retrieve and research the alien's tech its just insane fr.ex
the ultrasound pulse grenades they carry obliterate walls and level buildings, unlike your side's entry level basic high explosive/antipersonnel grenades (although x-com get more variety, different types, such as dye grenades (think smoke grenade, but usable under water to provide cover), proximity mines, that sense nearby movement (will go off if disturbed by your own men though so care is needed to remember where you just put them, good for boobytrapping doors etc. so when opened the mine goes off straight in the hostile's face :D), large, really heavy, although very powerful
explosive charges that can only be thrown a  few feet at most, but are best set to time delay before detonating, and used not as a grenade, but a breaching charge for forcing sudden entry into buildings, blasting the sides of a downed alien flying submarine out, rather than going in by the front door, removing obstacles in the path of one's agents etc.

And their equivalent to the undersea-only usable x-com torpedo launchers, whilst it doesn't have any alternate ammunition unlike the diver-portable shoulder-fired torpedo launcher, which can fire
both a standard HE round, a bigger, heavier more powerful HE torpedo, or even white phosphorus incendiary tipped torpedoes . They work on a line of sight basis of course, while the alien heavy artillery has one type of round, but its a guided missile that can follow a set of programmable waypoints in its path to the target, even can be set to nip round the corner of something, fly up in the water, move over the obstruction, then made to go pop through a window or door, before unleashing a gigantic, enormously destructive blast that will kill even a soldier in the very heaviest of armor types, reduce battle tanks to scrap metal, or whole buildings to smoking, burning ruins, to say nothing of what happens if some little shit decides to pop one in the front door of your full troop transport, losing you the craft because there is nobody left alive to pilot it, or whats left of it, should I say:P because the thing is in effect, more akin to a man-portable guided tactical nuke.

The launcher however is more or less a dedicated weapon, big, heavy, takes up a lot of space if stowed away in the backpacks, and the ammunition, a single soldier usually can carry maybe 5-6 -7 rounds including one in the other hand, and a round loaded in the launcher (single shot only, no magazine so one needs to reload after each shot), and its really a two handed, dedicated weapon
best deployed, imo, as part of a  two man fireteam, the second man carrying no launcher, only lots of spare rounds, a support weapon like a gauss rifle or heavy sonic cannon, or at a real pinch
maybe an autocannon loaded with high explosive or white phosphorus shells rather than the usual armor-piercing ammo for them, allowing one soldier to lay down a withering hail of high explosives
or phosphorus shells, whilst passing reloads to your first man packing the guided missile launcher, who only gets issued a gauss pistol, for a compact sidearm capable of auto/burst fire unlike all
sonics, or maybe a sonic pistol, and one spare mag for either, the support troop being issued both plenty spare ammunition, and no shortage of grenades.  Sometimes though I'll assign a third man to the fire support/heavy weapons team with a more powerful automatic weapon, like a gauss rifle, who carries a few spare clips of HE and WP shells, reloads for the gauss weapons, as well as a pair of medical kits, a thermal tazer, basically something like a cattleprod, that works by freezing an enemy causing crippling hypothermia, useable at point blank range only, but requires no ammunition,
thats used for taking live aliens prisoner for interrogation, research and vivisection, so as to find out the kinds of missions undertaken by the enemy, what they were upto before being captured, flying sub designs and capabilities, depending on the role of the captured unit, medic, navigator/pilot, squad leaders, basic soldier goons, specialist terrorist species unit types deployed as the enemy
answer to x-com tanks, which the enemy do not possess at all, instead, having the likes of some really deadly hover/flight-capable drones, which pack a unique sonic weapon that looks capable of automatic fire, either that or the game just makes it look that way because of the insanely fast reaction time allowing the drones to fire repeated single aimed or snapped  off shots in volleys
making it not a true automatic fire, but functionally the same thing. As well as the likes of an under water-only giant genetically-altered and surgically modified nautilus with a powerful and very
accurate sonic weapon, a giant jellyfish, although these can only attack at point blank range. Tough enough to kill, but not a particularly critical threat. Some big, heavy, bipedal monstrosity
basically a psionically controlled animal, dinosaur-esque, only with a gob full of razorsharp metallic teeth implanted, and a pair of huge sonic cannons strapped one either side of the body in a harness

They aren't common thankfully, because they are tough as as old boots, aggressive as blazes, able to unleash some pretty impressive destructive capacity, taking an awful lot of sustained, unrelenting and aggressive punishment before your men can manage to drop one for good. Pretty much a tank made out of teeth and meat really.

The worst of their terrorist specialist troop types though are what looks like a floating/hovering, flight-capable giant brain, with one eye, a parrot-like beak, and a cluster of venomous
tentacles used to paralyze your men with a sting driven up through their body into their spine and brain, reducing them to a zombified slave, which slowly shuffles around, taking swipes at your men
hitting hard enough, but not fast moving at all, and NOT the jammiest sandwich in a picnic. Nasty thing about them though is that once killed, or possibly, after a delay of several turns, your former
diver swells up until their body ruptures open, and skin is split, allowing the egg implanted at the same time as the diver gets reduced to a brain dead drooling version of a rabid dog to hatch
, releasing a brand new parasite, fully grown and ready to start slaughtering.  Unless killed by incendiaries, or possibly by the use of overwhelming, indiscriminate force, not sure of that,
then it'll hatch and the new alien once it sheds the remains of your trooper can go on to do much the same, spreading like a disease as more and more are overtaken and infested.

Nasty little bastards and no mistake, vital to be made the highest priority anywhere they are present. Not just the best, but the ONLY policy to adopt is to exterminate them with extreme prejudice
ignoring other species even heavily armed, unless with those big fucking guided rocket launchers, they are destructive enough to need killing on sight because of the great power of the rounds
and HUGE blast radius (its bigger even than some of the smallest ships the aliens use!), any hostile sighted with a launcher needs to be shot dead immediately without giving them
the tiniest chance to react, or take a turn and loose off one of those things, as they are easily capable of wiping out an entire squad, including tanks, if in the area covered by the
detonation.

But the terrorist 'tentaculat' critters need just the same treatment to prevent an exponentially expansive infection that rapidly spreads through your squad, each zombified host killed resulting
in the birth of another tentaculat if not put down with a flame based weapon to inflict the fatal blow. Best policy being to get as many of your aquanauts as possible ready and spitting out a sustained barrage of shots until the bastard is very, very, very dead, from long range, not letting fingers leave triggers until they are aiming at a pile of goo and organ slop :P

My science teams are currently working round the clock to research their guided missile launcher and its ammunition in order to be able to sell off the old torpedo launchers and ammo, and take the
alien built disruptor pulse launcher weapon with them into the field instead, to give the buggers a taste of their own medicine.

Sooner the better too, because I'm busy fighting a base assault mission, and there have so far been several sighted and killed. What makes them so damn dangerous though
is that their venomous zombifying attack ignores armor completely, and a single wound is terminal, without the possibility of survival or of being treated. The only answer is to
put a bullet between your diver's eyes, preferably while they are still alive, if there is insufficient time and resources available to ensure killing the alien, if they have got close enough to attack, then its more expedient to murder your own men before they ARE attacked.  Thankfully, there is an effective countermeasure against them, namely, using a tank to draw their 'fire' (melee  capable only, they lack the means to make a ranged attack, thank all merry flying furry fuckdom!), as tanks cannot of course, be made into a zombie, and the creature actually doesn't do a great deal of damage
with its attacks, the danger is a special effect rather than simple wounding, game calculates it separately from damage inflicted, and the tanks heavy armors render them highly resistant, although
not impervious.  So one can use the tanks to draw fire away from vulnerable troops, while the latter pound on the critter mercilessly.
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Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5990 on: April 21, 2016, 03:30:41 PM »
And we thought Sir Les was bad?  Lestat can write for miles, and miles and miles.


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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5991 on: April 21, 2016, 04:04:57 PM »
*starts to realise he'd begun to hum the tune by 'the who' to himself* :P

Don't get the first reference though.
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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5992 on: April 21, 2016, 05:30:04 PM »
Couldn't tell you who sang it, just knew the chorus or whatever that line is in the song.  glad you're musically smarter than I.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5993 on: April 21, 2016, 06:20:40 PM »
Its by the who.

Although I don't rightly know what 'musically smarter than' might mean. Unless your talking about rap and pop music, in which case it would not be setting the bar very high at all, and you could manage 'musically smarter' with a cereal boxes free kiddie toy plastic whistle stuck up your tradesman's entrance combined with an epileptic fit on an inflatable bouncy castle. Or a cat with tourette's with its nackers slammed in a microwave oven door and wrapped in tinfoil, with maybe a prerecorded CD featuring forks scriiiiiiiitch-ed down a plate, windows having bricks put through them and an orchestral group making their noise by arranging terminally flatulent people, in size, height and body weight-ordered rows, from a preteen girl who is an anorexic  and achondroplasic dwarf at one end of the scale, right through to a morbidly obese male affected by pituitary gigantism. Fed on nothing but refried beans, chilli and pickled eggs, the lot of them. And once thusly arranged, playing the finished 'instrument' by means of blows struck with a ball-peen hammer, to the fingers, toes, nose and genital areas, to record the variations in pitch, tone, note and amplitude found in the
resultant shrieks and howls.


Otherwise, I'm not so sure that musical taste can be 'smarter', or its inverse. as in the english tongue at least, the suffix '-er' added to a word tends to mean a quantitative scale exists, as opposed to solely qualitative.

As I said though, other than (c)rap, pop, or R&B. And anything involving noise emanating from justin biebrat or whatever the fuck his name is, unless originating from the impact of a motor vehicle at high speeds, or the crackling of flame coming from his being covered in diesel and torched like a kkklansman's kkkross, only made out of  a whopping great big, oozing, fetid rectal tumour instead of wood.


The Who, though, are certainly music, or were, not all of them are still alive, Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend are, but john entwistle, the bassist died a bit less than 15 years ago, early 2000s, found dead in his bed by the stripper/fan chick he took to bed the previous night, after causing himself a fatal heart attack, courtesy of ODing on coke, while keith moon the drummer, accidentally took himself out with an overdose of chlormethiazole, which is pretty lethal stuff if its taken in overdose, my guess is that it would never, ever have seen the light of day had it been a modern invention on the part of big pharma R&D, because of the way the barbiturates almost all got almost entirely nixed, other than a very few for outpatient use, in certain niche cases, and so those who are very old, and have been taking the likes of seconal (secobarbital) and amytal (can't remember which one) from when they were in common use, before they were pushed out of favor in exchange for the far less toxic in OD, benzodiazepines, and the totally shite z-drugs like zopiclone, because it would just be unfair, not to mention pointless to expect the very geriatric patient who has been on the earlier drugs since the year shit on a plate, to be forced to change to a benzo, and or undergo harsh, harsh withdrawals and get off the sedatives altogether, if they are old enough to be close to the end of their natural lives anyway. Why make them suffer, is the logic, for no gain in health, and a very probable actual reduction in quality of life. So some didn't quite get canned. Oddly chlormethiazole, which is not by any sense of the word, new, didn't end up with my having to dig up antiquated and obscure as hell proprietary research data from the pharm companies ancient leftovers before finding out about it, or getting to make any and try it for myself. Because the dose response curve is every bit as steep, a few capsules or a bit more syrup than a solid recreational/sedative dose, can be the difference between enjoying yourself and/or reaping the benefits of its being used as medication, and between never waking up again.

And its very, very dangerous indeed, if taken with alcohol, in any but the tiniest quantities. Fr.ex.  I've known of people turning green around the gills and barfing their insides halfway to china and back after being given it as a treatment for alcoholism detox, they made the mistake of smuggling in a few of those little shot bottles of spirit you find  as a one single nip in a prepacked tiny bottle serving per go, and drinking two of them. Guy in question, an alcoholic, a seasoned (or should I say, rather, well pickled) piss pot who had to have inpatient detox, and it was enough to make him SO drunk that he ended up on the floor, incoherent and chucking his guts up until from the sound of it, there was lucky to be a STOMACH left, let alone the contents of one, on the inside of the poor bastard. Kinda makes one stop and blink, when two miniatures is enough to render a long-term alky SO heavily sloshed that they end up on the floor doing their best audition for a part in a straight-to-VHS, low-budget remake of 'the exorcist'

Keith moon had been given it by his doctor, weather for alcohol detox or something else I can't remember, but was found with 30-something plus capsules in his stomach, when they opened his corpse up, only something like 6 had opened and released  their contents into his system, the rest of them hadn't yet broken open inside him, but it was enough to kill him, in combination with whatever else was in him. Although I don't think that much on their own, in the absence of other factors, would have done, I take that much of the stuff often enough
and its nowhere near the level of producing cause for any unease or alarm, nor any dangerous level of respiratory depression if any.  So there were other things in play to take him out I'm sure of it, as I have enough experience with chlormethiazole myself to be reasonably qualified, so to speak, in guessing at least roughly what it would do at a given level, up to a point, of course, because I have no intention of trying to push it and see how far it can be pushed, without pushing back.


The song is called 'I can see for miles'

Listened to The Who  LOADS during my youngest years, my old man had a lot on vinyl, grew up on their music, along with the likes of deep purple, steppenwolf, sabbath, metallica etc.
Thinking about it, its probably very little surprise that I have the tastes in music that I do, really, considering I got brought up on a diet of them, and other rock of that ilk [steppenwolf is more blues, but they can be considered in the same light, with respect to my listening and tastes as a little'un. In those days there probably WASN'T much if any doom/funeral metal, or black metal, industrial or the like, when everything was on vinyl records, or magnetic tape, for the really modern and with-it!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 07:01:18 PM by Lestat »
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Offline renaeden

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5994 on: April 22, 2016, 04:37:51 AM »
Wait....you got PRESCRIBED the speed, and moclobemide, by a dr? good god jumping bastardly shit christ on a stick, he needs to be taken out and shot,

This is a KNOWN and very dangerous combination, good fucking god. I'm at a loss for words, for once. The irreversible MAOI types are absolutely forbidden with stimulants, even dietary tyramine can cause a hypertensive crisis, cause strokes etc. (at least MAO-a inhibitors, selegiline and other MAO-b selective inhibitors of MAO-b are alright, but with care, given selegiline loses selectivity and crosses over to MAO-a inhibition above a certain quite large dose. Ironically, in the case of selegiline it PRODUCES methamphetamine as a metabolite)

RIMAs are a lot safer, and people HAVE taken uppers with them, but damn, its the sort of thing which needs to be carefully monitored as it can easily go wrong.  definitely talk to your doc ren, it
could have been an oversight, it happens, Ive been handed a script for amoxicillin before, seconds after telling the doc responsible I'm severely allergic to beta-lactam antibiotics (a lactam is a cyclized amide), so docs can be monumentally stupid at times, they don't get a free pass on that that we don't get.

Out of curiosity, whats it like, moclobemide, subjectively. The only RIMAs I have taken are the beta-carbolines like harmaline and tetrahydroharmine. I'd be interested if ever I find a source, in trying it to block metabolic degredation of DMT. Taking a pill would sure beat drinking yage' those ayahuasca brew, god DAMN they taste horrendous, probably not the
worst thing I ever tasted, but it sure wasn't far off!
Moclobemide is a lot like many other antidepressants I have tried. No side effects or anything else. Though I do think it helps my depression, as does lithium.

It will be a while before I see my psych. I see my GP once every 3 months for a blood pressure check. I haven't had any headaches which I know are a sign of high blood pressure.

My mum had something called malignant hypertension when she was in her late teens. Her diastolic was over 200. The doctors thought she would have a stroke. It was written about in medical journals. So glad that wasn't hereditary. Last month I had my blood pressure taken. 110/70. I think I am ok.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5995 on: April 22, 2016, 06:16:34 AM »
In effect, the MAOIs can be effective alright, the old noncompetitive variety included, from what I've read they are indeed effective, the reason they get such little use, and held back in reserve for the easing of otherwise treatment resistant depression for those not helped by other more forgiving agents, is precisely, in the case of the noncompetitive, irreversible MAOIs, because they aren't forgiving.

Moclobemide is a lot safer, and generally play a LOT better with dietary tyramine and other pressors intaken via diet, although it doesn't strike me as particularly sensible to deliberately provoke things, if someone were to do so (I am not accusing you of this, mind you), but competitive ones of that nature are FAR safer, the older breed can easily send people to hospital, or worse, if the diet isn't stuck to faithfully, and taking stimulants or serotonergic agents would be more suicidal than just stupid, with the likes of phenelzine and co, they have taken out more than a few over the years.

 the reversible  MAOIs, are so much safer, and the likes of eating some cheese or cured meat isn't so likely to do harm, I've certainly never noticed anything by way of problems on any of the instances in which I've both eaten something problematic with an irreversible MAOI, and have taken harmaline/harmine /tetrahydroharmine in the course of ayahuasca, well, something functionally identical to a simple (native shamen use all kinds of funky admixtures, some known of, some not, by western science, even sometimes some hairy shit like the nightshade type plants that produce the likes of atropine, scopolamine, but I sure as shit don't fancy THAT!, and the brews are often unique to the one who prepares it, personal recipes basically, although with a common base of a source of dimethyltryptamine and a source of an MAOI to prevent its metabolic inactivation before it has chance to act at all, the DMT that is) although I found it far more pleasant to extract both the DMT, and the MAOI, in order to turn a liter, to several liters of AWFUL tasting slop into a couple of neat little piles of crystals that can go into a pair of gelcaps, one for the inhibitor, used first, and left to take effect for a while, then the second half once the first has served its purpose. Main reason being because aya brews taste about as appetizing as a cup of cold cat sick. Not that I have
 ever tried to, or ever plan to either :P And its even WORSE if made with syrian rue rather than yage' and the smell of that kind of mixture is enough to make one's stomach and nasal passages ahem...forgive me...rue the day they were born.


About your mom...shit me, stroke? I'm surprised the docs didn't have to scrape her off the ceiling in several separate installments, after her head exploded!

The combination of even a RIMA, and amphetamine in any but the tiniest of doses would make me personally more than nervous, but if you have tried it, started using the  two AND are known to now be stable on the regime that does reassure me somewhat. Although definitely keep a close eye out for any nasty effects, and still avoid more or less any serotonergic anything, including 5-HTP and tryptophan. That doesn't end up with 'headache', but in 'that was the most agonizing thing I had ever experienced, after collapsing on the floor, immobilized, hyperthermic and at risk of rhabdomyolysis if it had continued. That isn't from a textbook, thats from an actual report made to me, by the person it happened to. They honestly thought they were going to die that day, on the floor of their fucking bathroom. Not strictly speaking, to do with an MAOI, but just an interaction between something else, and an antidepressant, I can't remember for sure what they other drug was, not a recreational, the person doesn't have anything to do with them, never has, but they had been taking the combination for some time, and the reaction came out of the blue, without warning, which resulted in serotonin syndrome. NOT a pleasant way to die, at all.  Just as well I didn't know at the time in some ways, because I was way too far away to render any help at all, and I would have worried MYSELF into a stroke, perhaps, almost;  because the one it happened to was, and is, someone who's life, wellbeing, and who's happiness I all hold dearer even than my own.

The regular monitoring is definitely a good idea though. Not that you really much choice in that respect, if your taking Li, what with how close a therapeutic plasma level is to a toxic one. I haven't ever had any truck with it myself though, there is no reason to. At least, I haven't actually ingested it, I've used enough of the metal, and on the rare occasion, its compounds. Got a fair bit of the metal itself around here, and I always do my bit for the environment if batteries of that kind die on me, and as everyone is always told, I recycle. Although I figure that the exhortations towards being
'green' and recycling probably weren't meant to mean dissection under argon (lithium metal, unlike the other alkali metals from sodium on down, reacts with nitrogen, which is far cheaper and usually
perfectly fine for most inert gas requirements. Li on the other hand, reacts to form the superbase lithium nitride)

Got plenty uses I can think of for Li, in its elemental state, comes in very handy as a reducing agent, and for use as a 'getter' if pressure/vacuum is unimportant but the interior of a closed vessel needs ridding of oxygen, sticking some lithium foil or wire in there is very effective, as a sacrificial substrate for oxidation, being consumed, and irreversibly [that is, by natural causes or by chance, rather than by artifice] binds the very last traces, the same principle is used in electronic vacuum tubes and the like, such as vacuum valve tubes as were in common use before the invention of the
transistor, they use a reactive metal in the same way, although iirc its more often barium that gets used, deposited in vacuo as a thin film on the surface of the glass within the tube to trap O2 that would otherwise impair or break the tube.

Used to use the foil that can be torn from the insides of lithium batteries for igniting thermite, when I was still too young to have an internet connection with which to purchase magnesium ribbon, or much money to spend on my supplies, which obviously, means I had to look elsewhere, as everything still had to come from SOMEwhere, so I had to be resourceful and also to economize, and at that stage in my life, to get good at working round such bars set in the path of my extra-curricular education, and hence come up with solutions like that (not to mention, unusually practiced at gutting batteries of all flavours in double-quick time (one soon does, if the batteries in question start to get hotter and hotter the moment the contents are exposed to air, or if accidentally shorted between the layers, as the goods are in the form of a roll, so its quite easy to nip through them accidentally whilst cutting through the casings, or when fathers that attempt to do their offspring a favour by recycling some of their broken e-fag batteries, only to toss the core into the lap of those offspring when they have no idea its coming. Then it heats up fast. Very fast, and it FEELS even faster when it tries to ignite between your legs, and the only thing to prevent a fire close enough, was to dump it in petrol before it caught fire:P)


NOT the most reassuring thing I've ever done, that much is for sure, running hell for leather upstairs to the lab and dunking a smoking lump of reactive, flammable metal in a cup full of naptha, doing a passable impersonation of a one-balled (get your minds out of the gutter, I claimed that spot first!) juggler, made to practice with a wasp nest, making every effort to run at full speed whilst throwing the offending accidental incendiary from hand to hand. One way to keep fit I suppose, although I don't envision the 100-meter oh-fucking-shit flaming scrotum leg-it-athon being
accepted as an olympic sport any time soon ;)
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Offline renaeden

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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5996 on: April 22, 2016, 06:33:59 AM »
What did you take MAOIs for?

I also take haloperidol and I know you are not too keen on that one. :P
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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5997 on: April 22, 2016, 09:29:50 AM »
Meds..sort of. Morning pramipexole, yes, buscopan, transdermal hyoscine patches needed changing. Gabapentin, yes , cyclizine, morphine,  chlormethiazole, clonidine , yes, same goes for
tizanidine, took a few of the latter earlier to let me get some sleep, which is often made difficult and painful both due to the nerve damage left by my failed knee op, I presume that is the case anyway
of the constant spasm in my calf. That can sometimes get really sore, and make it impossible to sleep w/o help.

Took an ondansetron tablet for my stomach earlier after I had to rush to the bogs and barf, that helped a LOT, nausea completely gone. One of my docs FINALLY said they would see to my having a camera stuck down my throat which should really never have been the acid reflux that it.   


I took it/them (I.e, the harmine, harmaline, and in the case of yage' vine, tetrahydroharmine, this  last however, to the best of my knowledge is specific to using yage' (Banisteriopsis caapi) and that there isn't THH to be found within harmala alkaloids if the natural, botanical source  is used.

Ayahusaca (pronounced 'eye-WAS-kah', is a traditional ethnic psychelic preparation is basically a cocktail of various plants, varies depending on who is making it, and why. The barest
fundamental bones of it however, are a source of the psychedelic DMT (n,n-dimethyltryptamine), this is, in contemporary use, most often, smoked  by vaporising it with an indirect flame, then taking in, and holding as deeply as one is capable, for as long as one can. The result is incredibly rapid, within seconds, an astonishing capacity to produce the strangest effects, such as oddly consistent reports of 'entity contact' where  interactability exists therewith, and they seem so realistic, as to have provoked the likes of rick strassman, PHD, into
studying it in volunteers, collecting reports of what they experienced (the book is called the spirit molecule, I have it, quite a good, if at times astounding, and almost always eerie strange. The effect is intense, yet short-lived, ten, fifteen, twenty minutes for the initial flash and loading into the proverbial 'nuclear cannon, aimed at, and shooting the psychonaut out, straight into the fucking maelstrom of psychedelic manifestation that DMT on its own produces.

MAO-a however metabolizes DMT so fast that you could, without an MAOI in effect, take a fistful and swallow it, chances are that MAO will mop it up so fast that it never sees the light of day, and never gets to act at all. Certainly this has been explored by some, in multiple gram doses, vaping bypasses MAO however allowing it take hold and produce its efffects.

The natives, brazil and the amazon basin area, who use it, and indeed it has become part of accepted spiritual religious practice under the Daime' movement, union de vegetal, and others, in brazil, somehow realized that combining the DMT source with an MAOI, although of course not using that terminology, allows it to be taken orally, in the form of their ayahuasca brews. This also alters the character qualitatively, as well as quantitatively. In all honesty, I could tell very little difference between DMT/MAOI,  and a dose of oral psilocin or psilocybin.although taken from their plant hosts by means of chemistry to allow the parts to be taken in capsule form, avoiding drinking one of the foulest things known to human tongue. Cup of cold cat sick really doesn't do it justice, its just rank, and vile, with where taste and smell are concerned alone, absolutely nothing by way of so much as a single redeeming feature. Gross.

(psilocin and the phosphoryl ester of it, psilocybin, from magic mushrooms (not the Amanita type, fly agaric is as different from psilocybin, in effect and chemically, as shit is from sugar)
are chemically very very close indeed to DMT, its simply 4-hydroxy-DMT, that phenolic group appears to be sufficient to protect  it from MAOa and permits oral use without anything else.)

The idea is to use the enzyme inhibitor to block the catabolism of DMT, so its orally active.


Haldol, not somthing I've taken, but the stuff I've read on it, and the brain imaging scans I've looked at are shocking,  it produces a metabolite called HPP+, or thats how it ends up
as a pro-drug to the permanently charged species HPP+, iirc this is by MAO-b, possibly MAO-a however, can't remember. The salient detail is that its toxic, gets reduced to the charged
species once it enters the cells of the brain, and owing to the charge, it cannot, then, leave. The result is it more or less 'cooks' the dopaminergic neurons, in the striatum but particularly within the substantia nigra, the part responsible for hosting a population of DA-ergic neurons, this is the one responsible for dopaminergic control over movement, destroying it results
in an artificially induced parkinsons disease.

The original discovery of that kind of toxicity, was by a couple  who were into opiates, synthed an analog of pethidine, a reverse ester of an already known prodine type opioid, only, they
did not know, that whilst their route WORKS, and produces the drug, it MUST be done, whilst maintaining the freezing cold temperature required for certain steps. The result, was not MPP but a methylated tetrahydropyridine results via dehydration and loss of a molecule of propionic anhydride. This too, gets into brain cells, metabolized to the charged tetrahydropyridinium cation, can't leave and instantly obliterates that critical population of dopaminergic neurons responsible for movement.

Poor bastards ended up going from healthy to instant onset of chemically-induced parkinson's of the utmost severity. Guy ended up' locked in', virtually paralyzed because of what the toxic byproduct did, he had it form because the couple wished to raise the temperature and thus accelerate the rxn and get their gear quicker. Treated initially with laevo-dopa/carbidopa as is done for ordinary cases of parkinson's, initially to some success but it stopped working for him, eventually, if I recall the case well enough, that he required a stem cell graft, or some kind of nerve tissue graft to that area of his ravaged brain. Not sure what became of his partner. Poor motherfucking bastards. Christ, it seems like he came within picometers of a fate truly worse than death, crippled, fully aware, yet unable to move.

If you want, ren, I can dig up the data on haloperidol to back my claim up, although the toxic byproduct is a known and  accepted entity. As is the cerebral atrophy longterm use of haloperidol causes. The neuroleptics don't seem all THAT healthy to begin with, especially in the elderly, who's deaths are accelerated by neuroleptic agents, those with a dementia are expecially vulnerable to them. Haldol is a bad actor though out of the bunch, the charged toxic metabolite isn't found with the other antipsychotics, although I haven't ever looked up weather the other butyrophenone types share that trait with haloperidol itself.

It isn't so much not being keen on it, I have never TAKEN it, I am just astonished that something with quite so profound a mode of toxicity could be suffered to remain in clinical practice
when there are many, many other APs around of all stripes.  The toxic effect is chronic, and does not heal naturally. Cumulative also considering the mode of action is essentially
cytotoxicity. Toxic drugs when there are no alternatives, last resort antibiotics for otherwise intractable infections, or the likes of the various cancer drugs, including, believe it or not, mustard 'gas' (they aren't gases, the sulfur mustards at least are liquids, I've never directly handled a nitrogen mustard though, not sure if solid or fluid). Or arsenic derivatives for the treatment of sleeping sickness (african trypanosomiasis, the disease spread by the bite of an infectious tsetse fly, and the cattle disease called nagana), the first treatments were arsenicals and toxic as hell, some more modern, less toxic ones are in use now, but arsenicals still do get used afaik, because the alternative, is death, after a slow and cruel neurological deterioration over the span, sometimes of many months or even years. The reason for use, as such, outweighs the factors against the arsenic compounds being given. Better side effects than being a corpse.

Surprisingly enough, a very common over the counter remedy, loperamide, aka immodium, does a similar thing, undergoing toxification in vivo to another nasty little charge-carrying brain-fryer, LPP+, but loperamide is a peripherally active drug only, it does actually cross the blood-brain barrier I believe, but is then immediately spat out by multi-drug efflux pumps as quickly as it arrives. Newborn piglets, lacking a developed BBB, are actually killed by loperamide. And it mustn't be used on infants either, although it isn't at all widely known.

While it would take an awful, awful lot, to actually put me off the pharm R&D side of my doings alchymical, that kind of thing is a salutary tale, that should make any, and every citizen biochemist type sit up and take note, so to speak, and convince those who don't, to do their preliminary research, and testing before anything new goes into a living human being (I do NOT do animal testing, btw, just to make sure nobody thinks I'd sink such barbarity. I'd sooner go without, than HAVE to test on animals. I quite simply, find the practice utterly abhorrent, animal welfare is something that I have zero tolerance of, and if I see it, you can damn well bet your life savings that I WILL act to intervene.)

But that aside, it sure as hell provides motivation to be thorough and exercise great care in what I choose to do.
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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5998 on: April 22, 2016, 05:50:56 PM »
 :2thumbsup:
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Re: Did you take your meds today?
« Reply #5999 on: April 22, 2016, 11:06:03 PM »
When I first started taking haloperidol, I found out what you mean by parkinsonism. Worst was the stop-start motion trouble I had when brushing my teeth. I went to my doctor and he prescribed benztropine (couldn't have propranolol as I am asthmatic). After the two weeks' worth of side effects from that wore away, I was fine and have been ever since. I take haloperidol for tics and it works well in stopping those.
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